How Much Time Does Pagano Get?

[oldunclemark]

Pagano seems like a highly qualified coach....

..and I know Grigson and Irsay want to succeed...

...but how long does he have. ???

You all know how we are.

If we go 6-10 is it acceptable in the spirit of rebuilding..

If we go 6-10 2 years in a row.......does Irsay take another plane trip to Florda..

Caldwell got one losing season...and he got ashcanned...

How many does Pagono get?

[Phil J]

2 losing seasons for sure, maybe 3 losing seasons.

[hawkeyes]

We will make the playoffs next year!

[UndecidedFrog]

When the Colts drafted Peyton and started him, they went 3-13 in his first season.

In Peyton's second season, they went 13-3.

Along these lines, I think for the next 2 seasons combined, if we can average 50% wins (16-16), we would be on track.

[oldunclemark]

When the Colts drafted Peyton and started him, they went 3-13 in his first season.

In Peyton's second season, they went 13-3.

Good point ....... FrogMan.....

....The answer is probably one......and that's with Manning...,

It might be two or three with Luck

[JColts72]

3 year pass with Luck, 1 year with manning

[Superman]

People are really down on the state of the team, but I think we still have plenty of really good players. Even if we have a rookie quarterback, I don't think anyone is going to be too forgiving if we have another really bad season. Certainly not two. I like Pagano, but he can't think he has a leash to run with. I'm sure he'll be doing all he can to get this team back on top, as soon as possible.

Also, other rookie head coaches have had success right away, most recently Jim Harbaugh, who turned around a team that had been mediocre to terrible for several seasons. That's with an underperforming quarterback. John Harbaugh took over a team that had been good, but had started to fall apart, and has never missed the playoffs. That's with a rookie quarterback who hasn't turned into anything special. Mike Smith, same thing. And so on.

Like Coach said to Irsay: Let's hunt.

[UndecidedFrog]

Good point ....... FrogMan.....

....The answer is probably one......and that's with Manning...,

It might be two or three with Luck

Thanks, but there are lots of uncertainty.

New player personnel (Luck? Manning?, others?)

New Head Coach

New defensive philosophy

Potentially new offensive philosophy

It is like starting over again. That's why I think one year (even with Manning) is not reasonable. Two years at a minimum.

[oldunclemark]

Thanks, but there are lots of uncertainty.

New player personnel (Luck? Manning?, others?)

New Head Coach

New defensive philosophy

Potentially new offensive philosophy

It is like starting over again. That's why I think one year (even with Manning) is not reasonable. Two years at a minimum.

No..I think we go to 10-6 with Manning...

There's no logical reason not t think that.

Again...14 of the 22 starters in 2010..are still with us....and Donald Brown isnt one of them

[Phil J]

No..I think we go to 10-6 with Manning...

10-6 and one and done! sweet!

[Corndog]

With Manning I think not having a winning record is hard to picture, although if the rest of the team is rebuilding I don't see much more than that. The Texans are going to win the division next regardless, if they are healthy. Without Manning, I say two losing seasons is acceptable, the third being around .500 and the fourth we need to get to the playoffs. This team needs a complete overhaul and if they implement a 3-4 defense there will be even more pieces needed to make it work. The offensive line still needs work, our receiver core will have to be improved with Wayne and Clark departing. Also this team still doesn't have a real starting RB. Next year might be the time to get a good RB in the first round, as this year we will focus on the QB position and needs in the defense, possibly adress O-line and WR issues. It will take atleast two solid offseasons of drafting to get anywhere close to where they need to be, then we have to wait for players to develop. Fans will have to be patient, it won't happen overnight.

[Coffeedrinker]

What? Why does he get any time at all. He needs to take the Colts to the SB this year or it's a failure. From reading this board:

The new GM is great at finding talent and most think every player he has picked plays a probowl level.

THe new HC is going to design a defensive that accentuates the positives of every player while completely eliminating the negatives.

Whether the Colts have Manning (the greatest QB of all time) or Luck (the guy who will become the greatest QB of all time) the QB position is set.

Then when you add in the addition by subtraction factor; most people think that Caldwell cost the Colts 4 games (although all they can ever say is a bad timeout during the Jets game), so by getting rid of Caldwell the Colts are now a 6-10 team. Then the defense and Coyer cost the Colts another 3 games, so now the Colts are 9-7. Then st teams cost the Colts at least 1 game so with getting rid of Caldwell, Coyer and Ray the Colts are a 10-6 team.

Are you guys really saying you expect the new coach and new GM to cost the Colts games? They do not seem like good hires if that is the case.

[WSO]

No..I think we go to 10-6 with Manning...

There's no logical reason not t think that.

Again...14 of the 22 starters in 2010..are still with us....and Donald Brown isnt one of them

of those 14 starters is Wayne, Mathis, Garcon, Saturday, Diem, Tamme (who started in 2010) apart of this secnario? You know..being they are all FA's this upcoming season.

[JColts72]

Much time? about an hour after his press conference; Yeah Super Bowl in Madden game; lower your expectations, team is reday to be made over BIG TIME,,realize all those FA's not going to be signed? and players who are to be cut too?

[oldunclemark]

Much time? about an hour after his press conference; Yeah Super Bowl in Madden game; lower your expectations, team is reday to be made over BIG TIME,,realize all those FA's not going to be signed? and players who are to be cut too?

Coaches are hired to be fired,,

Irsay axed Caldwell after one 2-14 season..

Pagono knows the clock starts ticking today.......It doenst matter what you or I think..

2-14 next season and he's probably out, too.. that's the NFL

[WSO]

Coaches are hired to be fired,,

Irsay axed Caldwell after one 2-14 season..

Pagono knows the clock starts ticking today.......It doenst matter what you or I think..

2-14 next season and he's probably out, too.. that's the NFL

If you're the Raiders

[oldunclemark]

If you're the Raiders

we have the :rulez: Committment to Excellence...too

[GAColtfan]

Maybe only 1 losing season, no matter who is at QB- Irsay seems to have smelled blood with those SB years and not sure he is going to take too many losing seasons.

It's not often you fire a coach with 26-22 regular season record (no matter whose coattails you think he is riding) with 2 playoff appearances and one Super Bowl appearance in 3 years. That is a pretty high standard. Pagano may be excited, but he may have a short shelf-life if there is not some real progress in short order. Even if it is Luck at QB, the expectations are higher these days for rookie QB's.

Irsay is accustomed to winning-- don't think the rope will too long

[Happy2BeHere]

Even *IF* the Colts went 0-16 next year Pagano will still be the head coach...I can dang near guarantee it.

[gspdx]

of those 14 starters is Wayne, Mathis, Garcon, Saturday, Diem, Tamme (who started in 2010) apart of this secnario? You know..being they are all FA's this upcoming season.

I think the uncertainty is the biggest issue. If they go into full rebuild mode and all these guys go (which I doubt) I would say at least 3 years to become a competitive playoff team. If Peyton is gone and Luck is in with the full on rebuild mode you can't expect too much first couple of years. But if Peyton is back (I hope) with a more controlled rebuild we should get to the playoffs next year. Just have to wait and see how competitive. If he doesn't draft who I like I think he should be fired before the off-season is over.

[Case]

What? Why does he get any time at all. He needs to take the Colts to the SB this year or it's a failure. From reading this board:

The new GM is great at finding talent and most think every player he has picked plays a probowl level.

THe new HC is going to design a defensive that accentuates the positives of every player while completely eliminating the negatives.

Whether the Colts have Manning (the greatest QB of all time) or Luck (the guy who will become the greatest QB of all time) the QB position is set.

Then when you add in the addition by subtraction factor; most people think that Caldwell cost the Colts 4 games (although all they can ever say is a bad timeout during the Jets game), so by getting rid of Caldwell the Colts are now a 6-10 team. Then the defense and Coyer cost the Colts another 3 games, so now the Colts are 9-7. Then st teams cost the Colts at least 1 game so with getting rid of Caldwell, Coyer and Ray the Colts are a 10-6 team.

Are you guys really saying you expect the new coach and new GM to cost the Colts games? They do not seem like good hires if that is the case.

u r so bitter and I don't understand y.

You are acting like a child who's mom just remarried and if the new husband doesn't buy you a sweet new bicycle next week he's a dud.

Have some faith and be patient.

[basketballsteve]

If it's a tear down (no Manning no Reggie/Robert/Gary/Ryan/Saturday/Etc.) 3 years and then they need a playoff in the 4th year. If there are significant resigns and FA's for next year with a healthy Peyton under center then all bets are off and they best play well or media/fans and owner will be unhappy and loud in their complaints.

[MAC]

u r so bitter and I don't understand y.

You are acting like a child who's mom just remarried and if the new husband doesn't buy you a sweet new bicycle next week he's a dud.

Have some faith and be patient.

That's entirely the point. Coffee is only reacting to the silly comments on here from people who had NO patience what-so-ever with Caldwell for the most superficial of reasons, but are now willing to apply a different set of standards to the new coach who we know so little about that superficial doesn't even begin to describe our level of knowledge. I don't know if I'm bitter about it myself, but I'm certainly disgusted. I'm ready to move forward with the new coach - I'm optimistic and enthusiastic - but much of the hatred of Caldwell was simply a matter of people deciding that they didn't like him, and then inventing explanations to justify their sentiment. All coaches should be held to exactly the same standard regardless of whether you happen to like them or not.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

I'll give him to the Trade Deadline(6 weeks).

Remember what NFL stands for- Not For Long.

[IndyTrav]

As long as there is some semblance of an identity on the horizon, 3 years should be about right.

[Superman]

That's entirely the point. Coffee is only reacting to the silly comments on here from people who had NO patience what-so-ever with Caldwell for the most superficial of reasons, but are now willing to apply a different set of standards to the new coach who we know so little about that superficial doesn't even begin to describe our level of knowledge. I don't know if I'm bitter about it myself, but I'm certainly disgusted. I'm ready to move forward with the new coach - I'm optimistic and enthusiastic - but much of the hatred of Caldwell was simply a matter of people deciding that they didn't like him, and then inventing explanations to justify their sentiment. All coaches should be held to exactly the same standard regardless of whether you happen to like them or not.

I agree, to a point. People were incredibly unfair to Caldwell, practically from Day One.

But here's a key difference: The Caldwell appointment was ... unorthodox, to say the least. It's very rare that the next head coach is appointed before the current head coach leaves, with no due diligence to make sure he's the best available person for the job. It's even more concerning that Dungy seemed to hold Irsay and Polian hostage, agreeing to stay on for one more year, in exchange for naming Caldwell his successor. What Dungy's motivations were are unclear, but it wasn't a conventional coaching change, that's for sure.

There's the question that's always been present of what Caldwell's qualifications are. He had a less than stellar record as a head coach at Wake Forest. He followed Dungy here as the quarterbacks coach, and proceeded to work with a player that was already on his way to being the best quarterback in the NFL. He took over a team that had been in the playoffs seven years in a row. From the very beginning, there wasn't any clear indication of why he was appointed, what made him the best guy available, and what exactly he'd be bringing to the table for the team.

On top of that -- and I say this as a black man myself -- it appears Dungy was more interested in making sure a black man took over for him than he was in what would leave the team in the best shape it could possibly be in. I don't see many people bring that up, and I'm hesitant to do so myself, but I'm calling it how I see it.

So, all things considered, I can understand why he was held to a different standard. I also think, to a certain extent, it's okay to hold Pagano to a different standard. Sure, there are question marks with him. But he's coming from a much different place than Caldwell, with a much different resume, from a different side of the ball, with a different pedigree.

And here's my point: Caldwell is gone. We went 2-14 last year, partly because he and his staff didn't do a good enough job doing their jobs. We started 0-13 partly because of bad coaching. The Caldwell Era is over, officially. The mourning period is over. We are now coached by Chuck Pagano. No sense in griping over the double standards of fans, as if the only time fans have been unreasonable is with the Jim Caldwell situation. It's over now. If you have a legitimate gripe about Pagano, other than "he's being treated better than Caldwell was," then let's talk about it. If not, LET'S HUNT.

[Fatboyslim11]

I agree, to a point. People were incredibly unfair to Caldwell, practically from Day One.

But here's a key difference: The Caldwell appointment was ... unorthodox, to say the least. It's very rare that the next head coach is appointed before the current head coach leaves, with no due diligence to make sure he's the best available person for the job. It's even more concerning that Dungy seemed to hold Irsay and Polian hostage, agreeing to stay on for one more year, in exchange for naming Caldwell his successor. What Dungy's motivations were are unclear, but it wasn't a conventional coaching change, that's for sure.

There's the question that's always been present of what Caldwell's qualifications are. He had a less than stellar record as a head coach at Wake Forest. He followed Dungy here as the quarterbacks coach, and proceeded to work with a player that was already on his way to being the best quarterback in the NFL. He took over a team that had been in the playoffs seven years in a row. From the very beginning, there wasn't any clear indication of why he was appointed, what made him the best guy available, and what exactly he'd be bringing to the table for the team.

On top of that -- and I say this as a black man myself -- it appears Dungy was more interested in making sure a black man took over for him than he was in what would leave the team in the best shape it could possibly be in. I don't see many people bring that up, and I'm hesitant to do so myself, but I'm calling it how I see it.

So, all things considered, I can understand why he was held to a different standard. I also think, to a certain extent, it's okay to hold Pagano to a different standard. Sure, there are question marks with him. But he's coming from a much different place than Caldwell, with a much different resume, from a different side of the ball, with a different pedigree.

And here's my point: Caldwell is gone. We went 2-14 last year, partly because he and his staff didn't do a good enough job doing their jobs. We started 0-13 partly because of bad coaching. The Caldwell Era is over, officially. The mourning period is over. We are now coached by Chuck Pagano. No sense in griping over the double standards of fans, as if the only time fans have been unreasonable is with the Jim Caldwell situation. It's over now. If you have a legitimate gripe about Pagano, other than "he's being treated better than Caldwell was," then let's talk about it. If not, LET'S HUNT.

Good points Supes. As another African American and a Colts fan since the 60s, I can say Caldwell's appointment to head coach was undeserved. He proved he was a terrible HC and I am glad the team moved on. Unlike some on this forum, I am excited about the new direction and the new HC.

[Jaric]

I'm far less concerned about the amount of time Jim Irsay is willing to give him compared to the amount of time our fanbase is willing to give him.

[MSColtsFan]

The Jags and Titans are in the same place, functionally, as the Colts. The Texans are good, but have never dealt with being on top, with success. The lack of depth in the AFC South is a great thing right now. I think the 2012 Colts will be better than last year, which isn't asking for much. So if we're examining progress, heading in the right direction, I see next year as one where we win 5 or 6. And compete for the division in two years. So to me, Pagano gets two years to progress, three to settle into a routine of being competitve routinely. Three years is a reasonable amount to me. Of course two seasons of 1 to 3 wins means I'm allowed to change my mind.

[JWF]

Id say atleast 2 seasons. If they really do let Manning go and blow up the team the expectations will obviously need to be lowered quite a bit.

[Superman]

Good points Supes. As another African American and a Colts fan since the 60s, I can say Caldwell's appointment to head coach was undeserved. He proved he was a terrible HC and I am glad the team moved on. Unlike some on this forum, I am excited about the new direction and the new HC.

I gave Caldwell the benefit of the doubt. I defended him up until the Tampa Bay game, even though I disagreed with some of his decisions (most notably, the Super Bowl game plan on defense). I didn't start to really turn on him until the end of the season, well after the Saints game. I don't think he was terrible, like many others do, but I certainly don't think he was the best guy available at the time, either in 2008 when Dungy was going to leave and Caldwell was appointed (Mike Smith and John Harbaugh both were hired that year), or in 2009 when Dungy finally left (Jim Schwartz, Rex Ryan, even Spagnuolo I think would have worked out well in Indy).

I love the way Irsay handled the GM search, and the way he and Grigson handled the head coach search. They interviewed a bunch of people, including some candidates from outside the box, some left field guys (who was thinking about Marc Trestman?), and so on. And they pounced when they found the guy they liked best. I really, really appreciate that approach, as opposed to the Dungy hire and the Caldwell appointment. Nothing against Dungy, but Irsay fell in love with him and never talked to anyone else. Never interviewed anyone in 2008 and 2009. Hadn't had an exhaustive search for a front office/management guy in 14 years. Grigson and Pagano weren't my first choices, personally, but the fact that Irsay did the work to make sure he had the guys he felt were the best fit makes me feel good about them.

I'm excited. Didn't want to get Polian and Caldwell out like others did, but I'm glad we've got some new blood and a new direction.

[GoColts8818]

If Peyton Manning is released knowing the bulk of this fanbase one game. If him and the new QB don't win day one there will be people starting to call for both their heads because they aren't Peyton Manning day one.

I love this hire and I am willing to give him time and I think others will as well. I just see how knee jerk people were with draft picks and coaches in the past. If Peyton is released I only see that getting worse.

[Jay305]

3-4 years

[Coffeedrinker]

u r so bitter and I don't understand y.

You are acting like a child who's mom just remarried and if the new husband doesn't buy you a sweet new bicycle next week he's a dud.

Wow, it's like you were there during my childhood. Will you be my friend?

Have some faith and be patient.

I do have faith, I have faith he will take the Colts to the SB in his first year as HC. If he does not it will be a failure, then I will be patient as we wait another 7 or 8 years for him to rebuild the D and then rebuild the O to get to another SB.

[Coltsman1788]

I'm thinking by year 3 Colts need to be turning the corner towards being a competitive team. I give them 2 more losing seasons to add on to the rebuilding process and in Year 3, we should be ready to start making some noise.

[MAC]

I agree, to a point. People were incredibly unfair to Caldwell, practically from Day One.

But here's a key difference: The Caldwell appointment was ... unorthodox, to say the least. It's very rare that the next head coach is appointed before the current head coach leaves, with no due diligence to make sure he's the best available person for the job. It's even more concerning that Dungy seemed to hold Irsay and Polian hostage, agreeing to stay on for one more year, in exchange for naming Caldwell his successor. What Dungy's motivations were are unclear, but it wasn't a conventional coaching change, that's for sure.

There's the question that's always been present of what Caldwell's qualifications are. He had a less than stellar record as a head coach at Wake Forest. He followed Dungy here as the quarterbacks coach, and proceeded to work with a player that was already on his way to being the best quarterback in the NFL. He took over a team that had been in the playoffs seven years in a row. From the very beginning, there wasn't any clear indication of why he was appointed, what made him the best guy available, and what exactly he'd be bringing to the table for the team.

On top of that -- and I say this as a black man myself -- it appears Dungy was more interested in making sure a black man took over for him than he was in what would leave the team in the best shape it could possibly be in. I don't see many people bring that up, and I'm hesitant to do so myself, but I'm calling it how I see it.

So, all things considered, I can understand why he was held to a different standard. I also think, to a certain extent, it's okay to hold Pagano to a different standard. Sure, there are question marks with him. But he's coming from a much different place than Caldwell, with a much different resume, from a different side of the ball, with a different pedigree.

And here's my point: Caldwell is gone. We went 2-14 last year, partly because he and his staff didn't do a good enough job doing their jobs. We started 0-13 partly because of bad coaching. The Caldwell Era is over, officially. The mourning period is over. We are now coached by Chuck Pagano. No sense in griping over the double standards of fans, as if the only time fans have been unreasonable is with the Jim Caldwell situation. It's over now. If you have a legitimate gripe about Pagano, other than "he's being treated better than Caldwell was," then let's talk about it. If not, LET'S HUNT.

I agree with most of this, and I appreciate your perspective.

PMing so don't go off topic.

What I will disagree with you on is the new slogan. I'm just not warming up to that at all. Perhaps it's because I'm a vegetarian, perhaps I just think it sounds funny (actually it sounds like it's the name of a redneck politician from Houston). I don't think that I'll be promoting it anytime soon.

[wanabecoach]

Okay. The man just was announced coach today, today, and we have a thread of how much time he will get? Get real! Do you work for a liberal sports news media?!? Fans should support him until he proves us other wise! He hasn't even coached a single game yet! Be a fan! Go Colts! Optimism provides an environment for winning, this is NOT optimism.

This post is a disgrace and shouldn't even be on here!

[unitaswestand]

It is weird. We act like this is 1998 all over again. I actually compare this more to Dungy taking over from Mora. The offensive explosion is there. Pagano is going to really ramp up the defense and the ST and running attack more involved. I expect the playoffs next year. It seems people act like we this talentless team that needs to rebuild over a few years. Keep in mind, we are a fairly young team. Sure, we have some older vets, but most teams do.

I am sure Pagano wants to do a good job and keep his job. So does Grigson. So blowing up a team would not be a good way to keep a job. Utilizing what you already have and making the playoffs is.

[Case]

Wow, it's like you were there during my childhood. Will you be my friend?

I do have faith, I have faith he will take the Colts to the SB in his first year as HC. If he does not it will be a failure, then I will be patient as we wait another 7 or 8 years for him to rebuild the D and then rebuild the O to get to another SB.

Wow didn't know that was what your childhood was like sorry. I was just saying you were acting like a child.

How many coaches have taken their rookie qb to a super bowl first year ever of being a HC?

[Warhorse]

I gave Caldwell the benefit of the doubt. I defended him up until the Tampa Bay game, even though I disagreed with some of his decisions (most notably, the Super Bowl game plan on defense). I didn't start to really turn on him until the end of the season, well after the Saints game. I don't think he was terrible, like many others do, but I certainly don't think he was the best guy available at the time, either in 2008 when Dungy was going to leave and Caldwell was appointed (Mike Smith and John Harbaugh both were hired that year), or in 2009 when Dungy finally left (Jim Schwartz, Rex Ryan, even Spagnuolo I think would have worked out well in Indy).

I love the way Irsay handled the GM search, and the way he and Grigson handled the head coach search. They interviewed a bunch of people, including some candidates from outside the box, some left field guys (who was thinking about Marc Trestman?), and so on. And they pounced when they found the guy they liked best. I really, really appreciate that approach, as opposed to the Dungy hire and the Caldwell appointment. Nothing against Dungy, but Irsay fell in love with him and never talked to anyone else. Never interviewed anyone in 2008 and 2009. Hadn't had an exhaustive search for a front office/management guy in 14 years. Grigson and Pagano weren't my first choices, personally, but the fact that Irsay did the work to make sure he had the guys he felt were the best fit makes me feel good about them.

I'm excited. Didn't want to get Polian and Caldwell out like others did, but I'm glad we've got some new blood and a new direction.

This is exactly how I feel. I appreciate it when someone puts to words what I am trying to say. I would add that I liked what I saw in that press conference with our new coach. Guy is straight up...wont suffer any fools. The first question about PM that was answered with a Rob Lowe tweet, had me gut laughing. .I have never been one to ask for a coach with fire in there nature, just for the sake of fire...but I like the way he presents his fire. Which is completely the opposite of other coaches with a burning desire to win, his is genuine.

The amount of time should be "as long as it takes, considering repairs to the current coaching staff and roster". I have never been a fan of simply the end product, but the journey in producing it. In that....we are already there. The great winning energy is already there for fans to consume, you just have to choose to drink it. I just slugged down a nice long draught.........