Chuck Pagano Hire Means......peyton Is Staying

[coltsblue1844]

According to Adam, Steve and everyone at ESPN.. they KNOW hes done in Indy. REALLY??

I really hate ESPN and they are always wrong, go figure.

thats why, as frustrating as it is to hear 'em all spout off rumors, i'm GLAD they have that opinion...because they are wrong SO OFTEN that it makes the chances of Peyton being back in Indy even that much greater! lol

[Case]

I dont know how you can say that peyton wont be a colt next year when we dont even know what his health status is going to be. Irsay has clearly said several times that if peyton is healthy he WILL be a colt next year. I dont think any of us are gonna know that answer until it gets closer to march 8th!

Because in MY OPINION with all the changes and PM saying he doesn't even know if he will be healthy and knowing that the nerve regeneration can't be predicted and it involves his tricep I don't see him being 100% healthy and 100% certain that he can play with no issues at all by march. Just what I think.

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Oh ^chiz^ Hue Jackson could end up to be our OC!!!!!!!!!

[coltsblue1844]

I think the reason Manning "feels bad about all of the changes" is because he probably feels like it all happened because of him being injured...that if he were healthy, he couldve saved everyone's jobs...which is likely true, even though he shouldnt be "to blame".

As far as coaching decisions factoring into whether we keep Peyton or not, i think the fact that Clyde is still the OC means more than who we hired as HC

[MCurtis32]

I'm interested in how much say Pagano is going to have in the Draft in free agency. I know I'm in the minority here, but I wish we wouldn't get Luck if Peyton is healthy. I think there are way too many holes in the defense. Not to mention the fact that we need a tackle and a center and possibly a wide receiver, we could benefit from not taking Luck. I think a good defense could really cover up a lot of things

As it stands, If you don't pick luck, and Mannings health goes south, then you have the same sorry backups you had last year. Defense will take 3 or 4 years to improve. What if you have a top 5 defense but you never score 20 points. Then you have the Ravens.

[mr. football]

Because in MY OPINION with all the changes and PM saying he doesn't even know if he will be healthy and knowing that the nerve regeneration can't be predicted and it involves his tricep I don't see him being 100% healthy and 100% certain that he can play with no issues at all by march. Just what I think.

ahhh... Now said that way sounds much better! I gotcha bro

[Smonroe]

And then they act like fans in Indy have the same line of thought.

What p.. I mean ... ticks me off is that they're always saying you can't have two players making a total of $50M because it kills your cap. They should know that there are allowances for rookie pay, and that contracts are always redone to make room. Everyone wins in that situation.

Money is not an issue, Irsay has said as much already - I'm hoping Horse Shoe Heaven is right: "If he is healthy he ain't going ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!"

[JoKeR]

Joker is correct again!!!!!!!!! How does he do it?

I just listen to Jim Irsay.

[scorptile]

calm down about BSPN they also said farve was coming back this past season to play and look where he was....

[Fx Stryker]

Oh ^chiz^ Hue Jackson could end up to be our OC!!!!!!!!!

We have an OC.

[JoKeR]

What p.. I mean ... ticks me off is that they're always saying you can't have two players making a total of $50M because it kills your cap. They should know that there are allowances for rookie pay, and that contracts are always redone to make room. Everyone wins in that situation.

Money is not an issue, Irsay has said as much already - I'm hoping Horse Shoe Heaven is right: "If he is healthy he ain't going ANYWHERE!!!!!!!!!!"

Don't you love how they don't do their homework. The only media types that have gained credibility(withme) with this issue is Steve Young and Mike Golic. They both just take Irsays word instead of trying to be Sherlock Holmes of sports journalism.

[Fx Stryker]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d82653a80/Pagano-takes-the-Colts-reins?module=HP11_headline_stack

Is Lombardi the only guy with a brain?

[GoGoColts]

Dude if we have both Manning and Luck on the roster we will have ZERO money to go after players to improve this defense which Pagano will want to do. We are rebuilding, and going to the future with Luck, and will sign an impact FA or 2.

I can see them restructing Peyton's deal. They gave him a bunch of Money by not puting him on IR. There is no reason why his cap hit could not be reduced in my opinion.

[mmcrazylikeafox]

I dont know how you can say that peyton wont be a colt next year when we dont even know what his health status is going to be. Irsay has clearly said several times that if peyton is healthy he WILL be a colt next year. I dont think any of us are gonna know that answer until it gets closer to march 8th!

I agree mr. football! Irsay has said if PM is healthy he will be back; and PM has said, more than once, that he would like to retire as a Colt. If we don't have PM next season because of his injury then we are still going to need a good back-up QB in case Luck is a bust or gets hurt.

[doogansquest]

During the season, the talking heads were swearing that Peyton may never play again.

Several weeks later, we hear expert opinions from medical professionals that Peyton's fusion healed, and that he will not only become 100%, but would also play pain-free when he does come back.

The talking heads returned late in the season to explain how Luck and Manning could, and would likely co-exist, as savvy owners are capable of pulling salary cap strings to make it happen.

Now, they all say he's gone, because the front office was cleaned out.

What haven't we heard? Anything from Manning or Irsay on the matter. Everything anyone is claiming on here begins with "I think," without any proof. They try to find cryptic meanings in everything, and are often wrong. (See: the Twitter post today.) Every prediction made by the "experts" revolves around "I can't see..." followed by some arbitrary sound-bytes and anecdotal evidence (or lack, thereof).

The fact remains that Christensen, a man who knows Peyton and his style of offense, remains with the team - for now. With all other coaches being released, or declaring retirement in a 48 hour period, I highly doubt that Christensen will suddenly be forced to walk the plank.

The fact remains that Irsay has said the decision will be between he and Mr. Manning. Neither of them have said anything contradictory to that.

What does it all mean? Everything will be based on Manning's health.

Pagano was added because we wanted a new head coach. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Smitto]

If peyton stays, then i pray they at least renegotiate his contract.. cant have so much money tied on two QB's...

Irsay has said (salary cap wise) they will be balanced on both sides of the ball so if something doesnt happen to someones contract on offense i dont see peyton staying or the colts taking luck because then they would have 40% of the salary tied up in just 2 guys on the team.

That cannot and should not happen.

[Drewth-be-known]

This hire is solidifying the fact that Manning is staying (if healthy). How much sense does it make to have a rookie QB AND a rookie,defensive minded head coach in the same season? All with one of the greatest talents/offensive minds the game has ever seen at our disposal. We just saw how much Irsay hates losing. This team still has a lot of talent, good enough for another run NOW. If Chuck is as good as they say he is, he'll put together a defense suitable with what he gets. Angerer fits the mold of a Ravens-type LB already, Mathis and Freeney might not have the size but they are still ridiculous athletes and CAN play in a 3-4 defense. Don't forget, we also have pick #33, which isn't far removed from what we're used to being our First pick. Grigerson has a chance to find a good NT or LB. We need a better line, hopefully those 2 picks from last draft show up in 2012.

Don't listen to those jokes on ESPN. I put them on mute when they're talking about Manning, just so I can enjoy some more of his highlights. "it's a change of philosophy with a defensive minded coach coming in".... The sky is falling...correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn Dungy was a " Defensive minded" coach coming in. How'd that work out for us?

Aren't they the same people who said Irsay was looking for an Offensive mind? nailed it again ESPN.

I'll put $$ on it Manning and Irsay figure out a way to deal with the 28mill.

We're not rebuilding, we're regrouping..... 'Let's hunt'

[Balzer40]

I know there are many that are in complete denial, but Im going on record and predicting that Manning will not be with the Colts next season. How people are making the connection, Pagano=Manning staying, is beyond me. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. In fact, a better argument could be made for this shows without doubt that Manning is gone. Although I won't make that argument, it could certainly be made. Im just looking at all the other signs and almost every single one of them point to Manning being gone. We are going to rebuild the defense with new personel that fit Pagano's system and that can't be done with Manning on the team with his monster cap hit. There are other signs too but I think if people would choose to accept reality, they would see them.

[wercolts]

Dude if we have both Manning and Luck on the roster we will have ZERO money to go after players to improve this defense which Pagano will want to do. We are rebuilding, and going to the future with Luck, and will sign an impact FA or 2.

Right now there's a lot of money in players that may not be back, and there will be 4 #1's and 3 #2's added to the roster. They are nowhere near knowing how much $ they will have. Don't forget, rookies salaries have been greatly reduced.

[unitaswestand]

I am unsure of how more clearly Jim Irsay has to say that if Peyton is healthy, he will be the QB for the Colts in 2012. He also no QB in this years draft or next years draft is going to be as good as Peyton Manning, and that people need to understand that.

Am I missing something?

And I agree that the hiring of a defensive coach likely means the offense will likely be pretty much the same.

[Slick_Rick]

It didn't take that long for the Texans to turn their defense around. They were a high rated defense with a few rookies and second year players even without Mario. It could happen here too...

[JWF]

Yeah i dont think this means anything about Peyton at all. I think it means just what it is...they decided to hire a defensive minded guy after being offensively minded for a decade plus.

[04DarkShadowGT]

The people who dont want to take Luck make me laugh. I dont think some of the Colts fans understand how fortunate we are to be in this position. We have a chance to have 25-30 years of Pro Bowl Caliber QB play. Manning has meant everything to this team and both parties have benefited greatly from this marriage. Under normal circumsances you would have no issues keeping Peyton for the rest of his contract. BUT who knows if he is healthy, what if he comes back, gets that money and then gets one big hit and is done? That would effectively cripple the Colts salary cap wise.

Truthfully HE may be better off elsewhere too. He deserves better parts, can you imagine if he was in Baltimore his entire career with that defense? They had descent players on offense and he could make them all better. He would certainly have more rings than he does playing here with a terrible defesnse and special teams.

You do not very often have the oppourtunity to go from a sure fire HOF to being able to draft by most accounts the best prospect since Manning or Elway. Sure Luck could be a bust, its possible. But with the rules favoring offense and his pedigree its not as big of a concern imo. But you take a risk either way, you take a risk on him and you take a risk on signing Manning too. The Manning gamble would cost you more if it backfired.

Just look at the distance between other elite QBs and their next best QB since then

Steelers - Bradshaw to Big Ben. It only took them 25 years to get another elite QB

49ers - Yes the transition from Montanna to Young was similar to what the Colts are facing. But who ahve they had since Young? Jeff Garcia, Alex Smith?

Dolphins - Dan Marino to who? Chad Pennington?

Broncos - Elway to who? Brian Griese? Tim Tebow?

What about teams like the Bears? How about the Lions, Browns, Bengals, Seahawks, Bills, Jets, Jaguars, etc They have had no all pro type QBs in a couple decades or more. Any of those teams would kill to have had either Manning or Luck, we have a chance to have had both.

I know people say this team is the same one from three seasons ago, but its not. You cant sign everyone who is a free agent, the majority of our playmakers are old and getting older and more injury prone. This is not a 14-2 team, its closer to the 10-6 team from 2010.

Do you want to win 8-10 games for a couple years while you rebuild this team and pay the $$ for both QBs? Do you think Peyton wants to be here for that? He deserves better, he deserves to be on a contender, not a rebuilding team.

[Ramblinwreck7]

It could be that while he may be uncomfortable with the changes (who is?), that ESPN is blowing it way out of proportion. No one likes uncertainty. After Manning and Irsay talk, they will work out what's happening. It's like getting a new boss. No one likes it.

In terms of the team, I'd like to see Manning stay for a year or two, mentor Luck, and retire as a Colt. Manning in another uniform would be an abomination.

I'm a Peyton Manning fan, so I don't want the colts to waste Mannings last years "mentoring" Andrew Luck. I definitely don't want Peyton to go to another team, but drafting Luck hurts Peyton's chances of winning a Super Bowl here...

[Case]

I'm a Peyton Manning fan, so I don't want the colts to waste Mannings last years "mentoring" Andrew Luck. I definitely don't want Peyton to go to another team, but drafting Luck hurts Peyton's chances of winning a Super Bowl here...

If ur a Peyton manning fan y do u care where he plays?

[ConBro]

Chuck Pagano hiring today means in my opinion that Manning (if healthy and cleard to play) is staying in Indy.

Why you ask

1 all experts said to groom a rookie QB you need a offensive type of coach- Pagano is not

2 the defense needs upgrade, with a healthy Manning the offense has no major issues

Pagano is a good defensive coach, the Ravens fan board is upset of the hire by the Colts

3 Pagano-will hire a defensive assistant from Baltimore or someone he trusts and worked for in the past

to bring in the smash mouth defense that the Ravens had for the last 10 yrs

4 Clyde Christian was the only guy not fired by Irsay-hint-so the offense can stay the same for Manning

so it doesn't miss a beat in 2012

These are very good points. I see Peyton staying as well if he is healthy. All the ideas of Peyton leaving have been spurned by the media.

[Coltsman1788]

I know there are many that are in complete denial, but Im going on record and predicting that Manning will not be with the Colts next season. How people are making the connection, Pagano=Manning staying, is beyond me. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. In fact, a better argument could be made for this shows without doubt that Manning is gone. Although I won't make that argument, it could certainly be made. Im just looking at all the other signs and almost every single one of them point to Manning being gone. We are going to rebuild the defense with new personel that fit Pagano's system and that can't be done with Manning on the team with his monster cap hit. There are other signs too but I think if people would choose to accept reality, they would see them.

Definitely not a popular opinion but probably one that is closer to being true than most are ready to accept.

[fear freeney]

If Manning is going to play for another team because he doesnt like the changes made with the coaches here, isnt he running into the same situation playing for a new team with new coaches in a new system??? I would want him to retire as a Colt in 4 years

[JTcardscolts]

Chuck Pagano hiring today means in my opinion that Manning (if healthy and cleard to play) is staying in Indy.

Why you ask

1 all experts said to groom a rookie QB you need a offensive type of coach- Pagano is not

2 the defense needs upgrade, with a healthy Manning the offense has no major issues

Pagano is a good defensive coach, the Ravens fan board is upset of the hire by the Colts

3 Pagano-will hire a defensive assistant from Baltimore or someone he trusts and worked for in the past

to bring in the smash mouth defense that the Ravens had for the last 10 yrs

4 Clyde Christian was the only guy not fired by Irsay-hint-so the offense can stay the same for Manning

so it doesn't miss a beat in 2012

Another point u could add is if he intends to implement his 3-4 defense your gonna need the right guys, and there's no better way to get them then to trade the 1 pick, and trade down again(maybe) cause guys Upsaw(perfect3-4 guy) and Poe would be a big time reach but both perfect for the 3-4 defense.

Good thread, with sound logic.

[WSO]

So you're saying pagano will build a defense by handicapping the franchise? How will he get new players and f/a's spending 40-50m at the QB spot? If anything this makes it look more like Manning won't be back. You don't spend that much money at the QB spot if you're building a great defense. Also Irsay has made it clear they are taking a QB with the #1 pick. I would love to see someone like Luck with a great defense. Imagine the Colts being a ravens like team with an elite type of player at the QB spot.

[WSO]

The people who dont want to take Luck make me laugh. I dont think some of the Colts fans understand how fortunate we are to be in this position. We have a chance to have 25-30 years of Pro Bowl Caliber QB play. Manning has meant everything to this team and both parties have benefited greatly from this marriage. Under normal circumsances you would have no issues keeping Peyton for the rest of his contract. BUT who knows if he is healthy, what if he comes back, gets that money and then gets one big hit and is done? That would effectively cripple the Colts salary cap wise.

Truthfully HE may be better off elsewhere too. He deserves better parts, can you imagine if he was in Baltimore his entire career with that defense? They had descent players on offense and he could make them all better. He would certainly have more rings than he does playing here with a terrible defesnse and special teams.

You do not very often have the oppourtunity to go from a sure fire HOF to being able to draft by most accounts the best prospect since Manning or Elway. Sure Luck could be a bust, its possible. But with the rules favoring offense and his pedigree its not as big of a concern imo. But you take a risk either way, you take a risk on him and you take a risk on signing Manning too. The Manning gamble would cost you more if it backfired.

Just look at the distance between other elite QBs and their next best QB since then

Steelers - Bradshaw to Big Ben. It only took them 25 years to get another elite QB

49ers - Yes the transition from Montanna to Young was similar to what the Colts are facing. But who ahve they had since Young? Jeff Garcia, Alex Smith?

Dolphins - Dan Marino to who? Chad Pennington?

Broncos - Elway to who? Brian Griese? Tim Tebow?

What about teams like the Bears? How about the Lions, Browns, Bengals, Seahawks, Bills, Jets, Jaguars, etc They have had no all pro type QBs in a couple decades or more. Any of those teams would kill to have had either Manning or Luck, we have a chance to have had both.

I know people say this team is the same one from three seasons ago, but its not. You cant sign everyone who is a free agent, the majority of our playmakers are old and getting older and more injury prone. This is not a 14-2 team, its closer to the 10-6 team from 2010.

Do you want to win 8-10 games for a couple years while you rebuild this team and pay the $$ for both QBs? Do you think Peyton wants to be here for that? He deserves better, he deserves to be on a contender, not a rebuilding team.

THANK YOU finally someone that realizes that what matters is the future. Not 2 3 or 4 risky seasons with a late 30s QB coming off 3 neck surgeries. If you're a Peyton manning fan why does it matter where he ends up? As it stands he is more likely to win the big one on a team like the Jets or 49ers instead of a rebuilding Colts squad. He may not even have his favorite receiver here next year.

[JTcardscolts]

This hire is solidifying the fact that Manning is staying (if healthy). How much sense does it make to have a rookie QB AND a rookie,defensive minded head coach in the same season? All with one of the greatest talents/offensive minds the game has ever seen at our disposal. We just saw how much Irsay hates losing. This team still has a lot of talent, good enough for another run NOW. If Chuck is as good as they say he is, he'll put together a defense suitable with what he gets. Angerer fits the mold of a Ravens-type LB already, Mathis and Freeney might not have the size but they are still ridiculous athletes and CAN play in a 3-4 defense. Don't forget, we also have pick #33, which isn't far removed from what we're used to being our First pick. Grigerson has a chance to find a good NT or LB. We need a better line, hopefully those 2 picks from last draft show up in 2012.

Don't listen to those jokes on ESPN. I put them on mute when they're talking about Manning, just so I can enjoy some more of his highlights. "it's a change of philosophy with a defensive minded coach coming in".... The sky is falling...correct me if I'm wrong, but I could have sworn Dungy was a " Defensive minded" coach coming in. How'd that work out for us?

Aren't they the same people who said Irsay was looking for an Offensive mind? nailed it again ESPN.

I'll put $$ on it Manning and Irsay figure out a way to deal with the 28mill.

We're not rebuilding, we're regrouping..... 'Let's hunt'

Like all your points, and u nailed it, "they said we were looking for an offensive mind coach" the fact is they kno has much as us they just get paid more when they can twist it more...

I too will be muting my tv from now on...thanks for the tip!

[BProland85]

So you're saying pagano will build a defense by handicapping the franchise? How will he get new players and f/a's spending 40-50m at the QB spot? If anything this makes it look more like Manning won't be back. You don't spend that much money at the QB spot if you're building a great defense. Also Irsay has made it clear they are taking a QB with the #1 pick. I would love to see someone like Luck with a great defense. Imagine the Colts being a ravens like team with an elite type of player at the QB spot.

I couldnt agree with you more. All great points and this is the path I hope we take by releasing Peyton, cutting Brackett, Wayne, Addai, and trading Freeney after reworking his contract. Doing this will make us younger, and will give us plenty of cap room to go out and get some impact FAs. I really want OG Carl Nicks and maybe CB Ladarius Webb.

[Scipio]

I do not understand why some people keep thinking having both manning and luck = 50m cap hit.

The cap hit for both in 2012 is like 21-22m.

Also, if manning is trending to being healthy, Irsay will keep him. He has stated this many times. I have no idea where all this speculation comes in. I think people just feed off drama.

[presto123]

THANK YOU finally someone that realizes that what matters is the future. Not 2 3 or 4 risky seasons with a late 30s QB coming off 3 neck surgeries. If you're a Peyton manning fan why does it matter where he ends up? As it stands he is more likely to win the big one on a team like the Jets or 49ers instead of a rebuilding Colts squad. He may not even have his favorite receiver here next year.

I know. It probably makes the most sense for BOTH parties for Peyton to be released. The Colts can start their rebuild right away without having to deal with uncertainty concerning Manning for who knows how long plus releasing Manning would give him all the time he needs to rehab and heal without feeling like he's on somebody's clock waiting for him.

[Revis FL]

You guys realize Peyton still has 4 years left on his contract? You think Luck wants to sit that long? heck I don't even want him sitting that long, even as much as I love Peyton. I'd rather just avoid the drama and go one way or the other, not both guys. Honestly if I'm Luck I refuse to sign with the Colts if Peyton gets his extension.

[GoColts8818]

I do not understand why some people keep thinking having both manning and luck = 50m cap hit.

The cap hit for both in 2012 is like 21-22m.

Also, if manning is trending to being healthy, Irsay will keep him. He has stated this many times. I have no idea where all this speculation comes in. I think people just feed off drama.

I am guilty of this mistake and frankly if you listen to the media it's really easy to get confused. Luck and Manning would get 50 million in real money next year. The media has taken that figure and talked about it like that would be the cap number. That's the amount Irsay has to pay them next year. The cap number is much lower.

[John Dee]

These contracts and bonus money are pro rated throughout the remainder of these contracts... This is why the Manning decision is so big. If Indy pays Peyton they are pretty much stuck with him for the entire contradt.

If Manning is kept then the 28 m is divided between the 4 remaining years on the contract. If he is released or traded after the 2012 season then the pro rated bonus is accelerated to that year. Trade Manning in 12, then Indy is stuck with a 28m cap hit, trade or release him in 13, then a 21 m cap hit.... Very expensive if Manning's health fails.

This is just the bonus, it doesn't count his regular salary. This March 8 deadline is a huge decision for this team.

Unless Manning is 100% healthy on March 8 I just don't see how Irsay can even consider keeping him. And if he is healthy do you draft Luck and make him sit for 2-4 years? I just don't see it happening.

All this new Era talk, total overhaul of the org., and Manning's health all point to one likely decision.

The smart business move is to cut ties right now.

[Blue2]

As my first ever post... I just wanted to say that if management gets rid of Peyton and he's still healthy enough to play... I will likely be done with the Colts as a fan...and I have been loyal my entire life...which would be a shame as I truly enjoy Colts football... but to display such ingratitude would be something I could not get over...

It comes down to respect for what the guy has done for The Colts organization and the city of Indianapolis as a whole... you can talk about money all you want... but ask yourself this question... how much money has Peyton Manning brought into the Colts organization overall due to his high level of play and high level of character? It makes 26 million look like a drop in the bucket... In fact, you could argue that in the last 14 years, every dime that has come in is partially due to #18....

If there was no Peyton... there would be no Lucas Oil Stadium...and certainly no Super Bowl... don't you guys remember how it was before? The Colts were the laughing stock of the NFL save for a year or two here and there... heck the Colts organization might even be in L.A. if it wasn't for Manning.

Seriously, there are people who want to gamble away a guy who is arguably one of the best QB's to ever play the game on an unproven draft pick? Peyton Manning is one in a million...just look at what happened this past season without him. With Luck, it is doubtful lightening is going to strike twice... he of course could be great... but the same thing was said about guys like Brady Quinn, Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and JaMarcus Russell.

Peyton Manning is the foundation of the Indianapolis Colts... with him (granted he is healthy enough to play) we still have a few chances at a playoff run... without him...and you get grueling rebuilding years that may or may not pay off...

You owe it to the man, regardless of money, to at least give him another year or two and let him go out how he wants... or I fear we will find ourselves in a situation where Peyton walks into Lucas Oil wearing another team's jersey...destroys us...then walks off wearing a satisfied smile... and if that's how it goes down... I will be smiling right along with him...

[JTcardscolts]

As it stands, If you don't pick luck, and Mannings health goes south, then you have the same sorry backups you had last year. Defense will take 3 or 4 years to improve. What if you have a top 5 defense but you never score 20 points. Then you have the Ravens.

Tell this to the the team in San Fran, and they didn't even have a full offseason to get ok the same page.

Give me a top 5 defense with #18 behind center, I'll take this over any team in the league!

Top 5D + 18 at QB = SB champs