Colts select T.J. Green, DB, Clemson

[Surge89]

2 hours ago, Dustin said:

 

 

 

 

Me btw^^^

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

[Lawrence Owen]

1 minute ago, Flash said:

I would expect we do not draft him in the 2nd?

Some had him an end of first round early 2nd pick. if it is a guy you like..take him when you can, or he may not be there.

[jvan1973]

Just now, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

 

If you watched him play you NEVER saw him at corner. Not sure why you'd choose to rate him as a corner based off of his film. He's a safety, unless you're a zone/bail coverage team, which the Colts are not.

[Gavin]

7 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

Sadly I share your sentiment here.  I rated him as a corner when I watched him these past 2 months and... well (imo of course) he was a late 6th rounder from my grades... 

 

I hope we took him as a safety.

Most likely did in my opinion and a guy that may play some Nickel at some point if he plays Corner but Safety he should be.....Adams place when he retires. I have not read or watched his interview with the team yet so don't quote me on what I think he will do. Just an opinion. But special teams his first year will be #1 duty

[Superman]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence Owen said:

what would you expect being he was a WR his first 3 years then moved to S last year?...like i said development.  Pagano can teach him for a year.

 

I'm pretty sure he got moved from WR because he's not good at tracking the ball over his shoulder. He's actually not bad in coverage, but he gives up big plays over the top because he doesn't track the ball well. He has some spatial awareness issues, also. Some classic man coverage training -- stick to your man, use your body, lean, maintain contact, read the receiver, etc. -- will help him in coverage. He has the tools and he contests everything that comes his way, which isn't really all that much. 

[dw49]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Mayock had him ranked as a 4th round safety.  Not sure how he'd project him as a corner, but that doesn't bode well.  Of course, analysts can be wrong.

 

 

Stephen HolderVerified account ‏@HolderStephen  1h1 hour ago

TJ Green is a safety, period, says Pagano.

9 retweets23 likes

 

 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

 

Almost everyone had him ahead of Thompson. Everyone had him ahead of Russell, Cash, etc. 

 

He wasn't really on my radar, but I don't understand why people are acting like this is some terrible pick. I don't get people right now.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, 21isSuperman said:

Mayock had him ranked as a 4th round safety.  Not sure how he'd project him as a corner, but that doesn't bode well.  Of course, analysts can be wrong.

 

He's Mayock's 73rd player. How was he a 4th round guy?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

[dw49]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm pretty sure he got moved from WR because he's not good at tracking the ball over his shoulder. He's actually not bad in coverage, but he gives up big plays over the top because he doesn't track the ball well. He has some spatial awareness issues, also. Some classic man coverage training -- stick to your man, use your body, lean, maintain contact, read the receiver, etc. -- will help him in coverage. He has the tools and he contests everything that comes his way, which isn't really all that much. 

 

I read that he was moved from WR because his hands were simply not good enough to play the position. Don't remember the source and too tired to dig it up. 

[PhillyCOLTSfan]

dude started at safety for a team that went undefeated and lost to Nick Saban in championship so ill give him a chance plus pagano is the Db whisperer

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, dw49 said:

 

I read that he was moved from WR because his hands were simply not good enough to play the position. Don't remember the source and too tired to dig it up. 

 

Not a surprise. Lots of DBs get converted from WR because they can't catch.

[Gavin]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Almost everyone had him ahead of Thompson. Everyone had him ahead of Russell, Cash, etc. 

 

He wasn't really on my radar, but I don't understand why people are acting like this is some terrible pick. I don't get people right now.

Mostly cause his coverage grade and lack of experience look pretty damning for a 2nd round pick. Personally if we were going Safety in the 2nd I would have preferred Byard. As has been quite clear though I was pretty well set on Fackrell or Calhoun...Both of whom I would have taken before Byard or Green

[Mameluc]

hadnt seen a single snap from him but saw a couple of games...I can see the team using him to cover TE which is fine...the problem is that would mean Geathers as FS -- not good

 

of course im basing everything i just said on a game...and i might be completely wrong

[IinD]

He'll absolutely be used as a Safety, no way a guy almost 6'3" should be used as a CB full time.

[Superman]

Just now, Gavin said:

Mostly cause his coverage grade and lack of experience look pretty damning for a 2nd round pick. Personally if we were going Safety in the 2nd I would have preferred Byard. As has been quite clear though I was pretty well set on Fackrell or Calhoun...Both of whom I would have taken before Byard or Green

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

[Mameluc]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

YOu know way more than i do. Is he truly a center fielder? or is he a matchup with TE type of guy who can also go cover a WR on some plays?

[Gavin]

10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm tired of hearing about PFF's grades. More relevant is the passer rating against, but that's a result of big plays. Not ignoring them, but it doesn't mean he can't cover. I'm basing this off of watching him play, not PFF's grades.

 

Green is pretty much universally a top 75 player. People are calling him a 6th rounder.

I have a few Clemson games on DVR from 2015. I also have not watched a lot of him...Enough to say I think he is a box Safety at this point...... but I do know that PFF does verify with the Pro Coach Network who claims to have over 400 years combined experience. Not that PFF is the end all be all...and they don't claim to be. I will have to focus more exclusively on him. When I was watching Clemson I was usually just watching Clemson or watching Shaq or Dodd

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

YOu know way more than i do. Is he truly a center fielder? or is he a matchup with TE type of guy who can also go cover a WR on some plays?

 

He's at his best in the box playing robber. He has a lot of work to do in man coverage so I wouldn't be excited about him covering TEs and WRs right now, although he has the tools and has some reps on tape of doing a decent job of it. He also has some busted coverages due to not tracking the ball well. He'll come down and support the run, and he arrives at the ball with authority. He's also reckless in both phases, which is fun when he gets it right, but predictably awful when he gets it wrong. 

 

Just give him some time, if he puts it together and refines his fundamentals, he'll be very good. 

 

Or we can just trash the tape and base everything off of his PFF grade...

[Mameluc]

2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

He's at his best in the box playing robber. He has a lot of work to do in man coverage so I wouldn't be excited about him covering TEs and WRs right now, although he has the tools and has some reps on tape of doing a decent job of it. He also has some busted coverages due to not tracking the ball well. He'll come down and support the run, and he arrives at the ball with authority. He's also reckless in both phases, which is fun when he gets it right, but predictably awful when he gets it wrong. 

 

Just give him some time, if he puts it together and refines his fundamentals, he'll be very good. 

 

Or we can just trash the tape and base everything off of his PFF grade...

Yea the game i saw (louisville) he was fine playing robber...he was playing that a lot. I thought we would use him there as covering TE cause of his size/speed and he can decently cover but since we play lots of cover  1 i guess maybe that will be his  role 

 

they also used him alot near the line of scrimmage which confuses me

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

I have a few Clemson games on DVR from 2015. I also have not watched a lot of him but I do know that PFF does verify with the Pro Coach Network who claims to have over 400 years combined experience. Not that PFF is the end all be all...and they don't claim to be. I will have to focus more exclusively on him. When I was watching Clemson I was usually just watching Clemson or watching Shaq or Dodd

 

I'm gonna go back and watch the coaches broadcast of that championship game. I rewatched it to watch Alexander, now I have to watch Green. I already know he blew at least two coverages, but he also had some good plays.

 

As for PFF, I've seen enough stuff in their grades that I don't agree with to know that I don't value their grades all that much. Their charting is very valuable, but they don't make that available anymore, soo...

[Lawrence Owen]

Indianapolis Colts: T.J. Green, S, Clemson A- Grade 
The Colts moved down and obtained a prospect who could've been chosen a bit earlier than this selection. I like it. T.J. Green is highly athletic, and it's possible that he might be able to play cornerback in the NFL. If not, he can settle in at safety, which was also a huge need for the Colts entering this weekend. 
 

From walterfootball.

[Superman]

4 minutes ago, Mameluc said:

Yea the game i saw (louisville) he was fine playing robber...he was playing that a lot. I thought we would use him there as covering TE cause of his size/speed and he can decently cover but since we play lots of cover  1 i guess maybe that will be his  role 

 

they also used him alot near the line of scrimmage which confuses me

 

He's good near the line of scrimmage, IMO.

 

He can become a centerfield FS over time. He's more than rangy enough. But if the Colts like interchangeable safeties like they say they do, then he's a good fit. 

[Gavin]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I'm gonna go back and watch the coaches broadcast of that championship game. I rewatched it to watch Alexander, now I have to watch Green. I already know he blew at least two coverages, but he also had some good plays.

 

As for PFF, I've seen enough stuff in their grades that I don't agree with to know that I don't value their grades all that much. Their charting is very valuable, but they don't make that available anymore, soo...

I'm not sure I have seen PFF's charting. If I have seen it posted on here I have not recognized it as their charting. I'm very much considering purchasing from PFF but not sure which one to actually purchase....Premium stats or Player Grades or both so I have held off until someone can give me more info so I can make a more informed decision

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Gavin said:

I'm not sure I have seen PFF's charting. If I have seen it posted on here I have not recognized it as their charting. I'm very much considering purchasing from PFF but not sure which one to actually purchase....Premium stats or Player Grades or both so I have held off until someone can give me more info so I can make a more informed decision

 

They don't offer premium stats anymore.

 

Stuff like passer rating against is an example of their charting. It was available in premium stats; now they just trickle that stuff out in pieces.

[krunk]

I still think they have intentions on playing him at cornerback.  I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.   My gut still says they want to convert him into a cornerback.  What they do with these next couple moves will tell me everything I need to know.  He's got the athleticism to play either one, but I think they want him at corner.  The safety tape doesn't excite me all that much overall.  We'll see......

[Mr.Debonair]

What's with all the Billings crying? Dude is still available on Day 3,  speaks volumes 

[aReggie7]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

I still think they have intentions on playing him at cornerback.  I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.   My gut still says they want to convert him into a cornerback.  What they do with these next couple moves will tell me everything I need to know.  He's got the athleticism to play either one, but I think they want him at corner.  The safety tape doesn't excite me all that much overall.  We'll see......

 

I watched the press conference tonight with Grigson and Pagano. They asked Pagano about TJ and Geathers being their safeties of the future and how they fit together. Pagano specifically said they view them as safeties and not one as a FS and the other as SS. They see them as interchangeable. I didn't get the impression they have any plans of TJ as a CB from listening to that press conference.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

3 hours ago, James said:

 

Calm down. Demanding for any 2nd round pick to be a "stud from week 1" is asinine. 

"He better be a Pro-Bowl safety, & stop world hunger"

 

signed,

agro Colts Fans

[Surge89]

58 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

If you watched him play you NEVER saw him at corner. Not sure why you'd choose to rate him as a corner based off of his film. He's a safety, unless you're a zone/bail coverage team, which the Colts are not.

 

I rated him as a corner mostly due to the first exposure to him was corner at next level and his length.  When. I watched I didn't see traits I liked for being a corner and I rated him lower.  Granted I didn't have enough interest in him to see in another light and yes I saw he was playing a ton of box safety but I would largely just take his tackling from those which weren't exactly flattering and kicked him to the wayside.  Yes I do think he translates better to safety now in retrospect that was not what I was eyeing for. My bad

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, jvan1973 said:

Nobody rated him a 6th round pick.    Brandt had him as high as 45 overall

 

I know no one had him rated 6th.  I said I did.  And main reason because I didn't like much about him as a corner because when I was first exposed to him he was said to be a corner at the next level.

 

Plus I didn't have much interest to say oh wait if he's a safety, which I guess I should have since he played a ton of box safety but honestly he wasn't very high on my watch list when viewing Clemson.

[Superman]

16 minutes ago, krunk said:

I don't think he likes contact enough for that safety position.  Not that he's a chicken, but he's a pretty grabby dive at the legs kind of guy to me. He'll stick his nose in there, but he doesn't have a love for it.

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Most likely did in my opinion and a guy that may play some Nickel at some point if he plays Corner but Safety he should be.....Adams place when he retires. I have not read or watched his interview with the team yet so don't quote me on what I think he will do. Just an opinion. But special teams his first year will be #1 duty

 

I agree. 

 

I still don't like some of his tendencies when he tackles and since he won't be doing much pedal and flip I can see the attraction.

[Surge89]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

He's Mayock's 73rd player. How was he a 4th round guy?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

 

To be fair it's because Mayock himself said it live during the draft.  He may have argued against himself but I heard that as well. 

[Steamboat_Shaun]

Tampa Bay traded up 15 spots for a kicker, & we're complaining about drafting a safety that played in the national championship. The offseason is rough on all of us LOL.

[krunk]

9 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

 

That's not what I saw, you're making him sound like Geathers and he's not that.

[stitches]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

He's Mayock's 73rd player. How was he a 4th round guy?

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000655903/article/mike-mayocks-2016-nfl-draft-top-100-prospect-rankings

Mayock said he was 4th round guy for him before the combine. After he shot through the boards.

[krunk]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Watch the Alabama game. He goes head-up with Derrick freaking Henry at least four times in that game, including on the goal line, and stops him. He flies around with reckless abandon, sometimes to his own detriment. 

 

I don't understand the idea that he doesn't like contact.

There are others who have thought of him in the corner sense as well.  He has even said he's played slot corner himself:

 

 

At 6-3 and 205 pounds, the Colts are getting a very intriguing frame to add to their secondary. Green played safety in college, yet his speed (4.34 40-yard dash) has some believing he could line up at cornerback in the NFL. A converted wide receiver, Green started just one season at Clemson and left with a year of eligibility. Green’s Combine numbers were eye popping, with his 40-yard dash the second fastest of any defensive back, blowing the other safeties out of the water. Green finished 2015 with 130 tackles (102 solo). He had 13 solo stops in Clemson’s Orange Bowl win over Oklahoma (where Green said he also played some slot corner, opposite second-round pick Sterling Shepard).
 

http://www.colts.com/news/article-1/Colts-Draft-Clemson-Safety-TJ-Green-In-Second-Round/ca45749b-51f2-4042-9213-0dca113ba0bd

 

 

Corner was my hunch.   He's very capable of playing safety no doubt.  I just don't think he's very physical.  He's not Gerod Holiman by any stretch of the imagination.  I could see them coaching him up to be much better in coverage back there. 

[Superman]

10 minutes ago, krunk said:

 

That's not what I saw, you're making him sound like Geathers and he's not that.

 

I wish DB's gif maker still worked...

 

At 1:26, who's that taking down Derrick Henry? At 1:40, who's that flying down into the box to take on Derrick Henry? At 3:10, who's that taking down Derrick Henry? At 5:55, who's that at the bottom of the pile? At 9:18, who's that stopping Henry at the goal line?

 

http://draftbreakdown.com/video/t-j-green-vs-alabama-2015-2/

[Superman]

23 minutes ago, Surge89 said:

 

To be fair it's because Mayock himself said it live during the draft.  He may have argued against himself but I heard that as well. 

 

I didn't hear Mayock say that. My bad. That's kind of dumb though, if he's your 73rd player...