Cutting it close...

[JPFolks]

14 hours ago, Bleedin Blue said:

I think you and Superman just see a different team out there than I do...and I'm not talking about tonight.  I'm talking about this entire season.  There are things lurking under the surface even in our wins.  The season still needs to be played out, but as a fan it's hard to watch so I'm focused on what I enjoy...learning about the best college kids that are going to be coming out this next year.  One thing to keep in mind JPFolks...it's not just the first pick that gains positioning...it's every pick in the draft in every round that is higher.  Plus I'm advocating for trading back so this team can get some better depth.  It does make a difference.  I personally feel that Grigson needs to focus more on building through the draft.  He has a good eye for young talent.  I'm not sure he's as good with established players. Too many times he's gone after guys that other teams have let walk and the results are starting to speak for themselves.  

But the entire point in a season is to make the playoffs and have a shot at winning the Super Bowl.  Some teams go years and years without making the playoffs at all, they'd KILL for an occasional 1 and out let alone playing in the AFC Championship last year.  You know what makes great FA's willing to sign with a team? The chance to play for a team who can make the playoffs and give them a shot at a ring.  Now it is up to Grigson to pick the RIGHT FA's, and he's frankly pretty lousy at it which is partly why I am for replacing  him.  

I agree he's much better in the draft, but with typically 7 picks, you have to be solid at FA acquisitions to succeed because that's only 7 out of 20+ players or more you replace (or decide to resign) each year.  Grigson would be great in charge of scouting, but he's really weak on FA's and has far more massive failures there than our team can thrive on.  With Luck, we're always going to have a shot to compete, so finding the right FA's is key.   Draft position is irrelevant to FA prowess.  Making the playoffs every year, however, is a HUGE benefit to signing quality FA's and also to getting people to stay with the team for a more reasonable salary than they might otherwise require.  The Patriots prove all the time that if you're a consistent winner, even your top guys will give you a discount just for the chance to play for a team likely to be in the playoffs at worst every year.  

Wishing for us to miss the playoffs for any reason is bad for morale, bad for recruiting, bad for development of the team, bad for the team's value meaning the owner makes less and thus is less willing to pay top dollar to get top talent every year etc.  Wishing to miss the playoffs for a slightly better pick, as I have shown you, simply means getting 1 player that you could hit or miss with better than you'd get if you won the Super Bowl, or get blown out in round 1 either way.  The benefits to being in the playoffs far outweigh any scenario in better draft position.   A year is too long to wait in hopes of suddenly leaping  forward to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs altogether.   

[RollerColt]

8 minutes ago, JPFolks said:

Wishing for us to miss the playoffs for any reason is bad for morale, bad for recruiting, bad for development of the team, bad for the team's value meaning the owner makes less and thus is less willing to pay top dollar to get top talent every year etc.  Wishing to miss the playoffs for a slightly better pick, as I have show you, simply means getting 1 player that you could hit or miss with better than you'd get if you won the Super Bowl, or get blown out in round 1 either way.  The benefits to being in the playoffs far outweigh any scenario in better draft position.   A year is too long to wait in hopes of suddenly leaping  forward to the Super Bowl after missing the playoffs altogether.   

[ColtsBlueFL]

15 hours ago, Superman said:

Calling for your team to pack up on a season that isn't over is being a quitter, and is not better than going to the playoffs, regardless of draft position.

Of course, this does not surprise me. You wanted to tank the season in Week 3.

I don't want a losing effort or mentality anywhere near the locker room.  Besides, those guys are on film, they are not going to tank and risk not getting a job with another team after they get cut because of their poor effort was caught on film.  And Coaches might get the J. Irsay desk brush like the last regime did, except worse if it appears on purpose rather than happenstance.

Go for it Colts.  Come what may, win or lose.

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

The thing our D usually is good at is playing off the offenses intensity. with guys coming back right at playoff time and getting on a role would still be possible. 

[Superman]

4 hours ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Maybe we could get more talent, but in saying that you're assuming that all the picks turn out to be homeruns AND are able stay healthy, which is a long shot for any prospect. I'd still rather get into the playoffs, and pick in the 20s, than fold the rest of the season and play for a draft pick.

And that's because everything you do all year long -- offseason, preseason, regular season -- is done with the goal of making the playoffs. And that's because you can't win the Super Bowl unless you make the playoffs. Once you're in, everything else goes out the window. Doesn't matter what your record is, doesn't matter that you didn't have your QB for six weeks, doesn't matter that you fired your OC in Week 9, doesn't matter that your coach doesn't have a contract.... All that matters is that you're in the playoffs, and you have a chance.

It's crazy to me. Literally everything else is about getting to the postseason. Free agency, the Combine, the draft, scouting, UDFAs, minicamps, training camp, preseason games, roster management, etc., it's all about trying to make the playoffs.

It's ENTIRELY a loser's mentality to give up on a season in which you still can make the playoffs because you want a better draft pick next year. Next year's draft pick can't help you win right now. It doesn't matter. It's not like we're 3-9 and a complete dumpster fire. We're in first place, with four winnable games on the schedule. Our hardest game is probably hosting the Texans, and they've NEVER won in Indy.

Some people here will be mad if the Colts win out and go to the Super Bowl, because that will mean Irsay doesn't fire the person/people they hate. That's stupid. 

[Superman]

17 hours ago, Bleedin Blue said:

I think you and Superman just see a different team out there than I do...and I'm not talking about tonight.  I'm talking about this entire season.  There are things lurking under the surface even in our wins.  The season still needs to be played out, but as a fan it's hard to watch so I'm focused on what I enjoy...learning about the best college kids that are going to be coming out this next year.  One thing to keep in mind JPFolks...it's not just the first pick that gains positioning...it's every pick in the draft in every round that is higher.  Plus I'm advocating for trading back so this team can get some better depth.  It does make a difference.  I personally feel that Grigson needs to focus more on building through the draft.  He has a good eye for young talent.  I'm not sure he's as good with established players. Too many times he's gone after guys that other teams have let walk and the results are starting to speak for themselves.  

I doubt it. I don't see a great team at all, sometimes not even a good team. We've even looked bad in wins, like you said.

But I think this team has underperformed since Week 1. And maybe it continues to underperform. Maybe it's fundamentally flawed and/or is held back by intangible factors. That's the most likely outcome, given all the nonsense that's happened since basically the AFCCG. 

However, what if Luck comes back and plays well (which he hasn't all year)? What if he and Chud hit a groove? What if the first half against Denver is something this team can achieve for a straight month? What if a couple of the new players get more reps -- Moore, Geathers, Dorsett -- and play better than the players they replace?

Indy fans have seen one Super Bowl champ. That team looked dead in the water in the last month of the regular season. There was zero indication that the defense would be able to stop Larry Johnson in the wild card round, two weeks after MJD and the Jags mudstomped them for 375 yards. Most SB teams have to overcome some serious adversity along the way.

I said earlier, I'm not expecting the Colts to flip a switch. Like you, I don't think they have it, even if they get fully healthy. But it's not unprecedented, and if -- IF -- some things start lining up, then who knows what happens.

[Steamboat_Shaun]

27 minutes ago, Superman said:

And that's because everything you do all year long -- offseason, preseason, regular season -- is done with the goal of making the playoffs. And that's because you can't win the Super Bowl unless you make the playoffs. Once you're in, everything else goes out the window. Doesn't matter what your record is, doesn't matter that you didn't have your QB for six weeks, doesn't matter that you fired your OC in Week 9, doesn't matter that your coach doesn't have a contract.... All that matters is that you're in the playoffs, and you have a chance.

It's crazy to me. Literally everything else is about getting to the postseason. Free agency, the Combine, the draft, scouting, UDFAs, minicamps, training camp, preseason games, roster management, etc., it's all about trying to make the playoffs.

It's ENTIRELY a loser's mentality to give up on a season in which you still can make the playoffs because you want a better draft pick next year. Next year's draft pick can't help you win right now. It doesn't matter. It's not like we're 3-9 and a complete dumpster fire. We're in first place, with four winnable games on the schedule. Our hardest game is probably hosting the Texans, and they've NEVER won in Indy.

Some people here will be mad if the Colts win out and go to the Super Bowl, because that will mean Irsay doesn't fire the person/people they hate. That's stupid. 

 

Yep, and you also have to remember that no matter where he's picked, #32, or #1 overall, he's still gonna be a rookie. There's not a single player in the NCAA declaring for the draft next year that would catapult our chances of being in the SB. The only exception would be if we scored the next JJ Watt, and he just plays out of his mind from the first snap of week 1, AND stays healthy all year.

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, Steamboat_Shaun said:

Yep, and you also have to remember that no matter where he's picked, #32, or #1 overall, he's still gonna be a rookie. There's not a single player in the NCAA declaring for the draft next year that would catapult our chances of being in the SB. The only exception would be if we scored the next JJ Watt, and he just plays out of his mind from the first snap of week 1, AND stays healthy all year.

Lots of top 20 picks are underwhelming, and lots of guys late in the first (and beyond) who have great careers. Obviously, your odds are better at the top of the draft, but you don't throw away a season to move up in the draft. 

[SteelDragon]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

People said the same stuff last year. We wound up in the AFCCG. Giving up on the season is stupid.

Yeah,  that 45-7 emasculation was well worth hanging up that AFC Finalist banner,

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, SteelDragon said:

Yeah,  that 45-7 emasculation was well worth hanging up that AFC Finalist banner,

Still made it there while 28 other teams were sitting at home watching. Making the Final 4 is a heck of an accomplishment regardless of the outcome. We just ran into a powerhouse on a mission in the toughest place in the league to win at. The first Half was competitive only being down 17-7. It just got out of hand in the 2nd Half once we got way down, they were running up the score as usual LOL.

[Superman]

14 minutes ago, SteelDragon said:

Yeah,  that 45-7 emasculation was well worth hanging up that AFC Finalist banner,

You can only win if you make it there.

[ColtsBlueFL]

2 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

Yeah,  that 45-7 emasculation was well worth hanging up that AFC Finalist banner,

 

Yes, they laid an egg that night.  But they had a shot to execute and not lay an egg.  At least, they laid the egg instead of watching others on TV lay an egg instead.  They were there, and had a chance.

[jvan1973]

21 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

guess I want the best possible chance for the best pass rusher for the team that ya know has absolutly ZERO pass rush. I guess picking at 14 to 16  isn't better then 21 to 23 nowadays 

RG3 2nd over all

Russell Wilson 3rd round. 

 

Draft position doesn't guarantee anything.   Good talent will be there no matter where we draft.   Also,   there is more than just the first round.  People seem to forget that around here

[jvan1973]

21 hours ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just wanted whatever it takes to get Grigson fired if that's miss the playoffs then so be it 

Agenda based fandom.    Interesting

[MTC]

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

[jvan1973]

Just now, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

You also said the pats were going undefeated.  Your fortune telling skills are broken

[MTC]

Just now, jvan1973 said:

You also said the pats were going undefeated.  Your fortune telling skills are broken

I did. Not expecting Edelman and Gronk to be out for the Patriots. 

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, MTC said:

I did. Not expecting Edelman and Gronk to be out for the Patriots. 

So you're saying unforeseen things can happen?  

[chrisfarley]

22 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

IF Matt is hurt then we're in real trouble.

Pagano seems to have decided when Hasselbeck will practice next, not sure Matt's liken' this posture.

[jvan1973]

23 minutes ago, chrisfarley said:

Pagano seems to have decided when Hasselbeck will practice next, not sure Matt's liken' this posture.

Pretty sure the doctors make those calls

[Coltsman1788]

Colts could lose any of these remaining 4 games...they are fully capable of crapping the bed on any given Sunday. They play down to their opponents so you can rest assured there probably won't be a comfortable win in the bunch. Any wins will likely be too close for comfort.    

[Coltsman1788]

53 minutes ago, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

We own Cincy, Denver and Kansas City.  I'd welcome playing any of them in the post season.  But if we see Pittsburgh or New England this team will be nationally undressed and humiliated yet again. I don't care to see the Colts get molly whopped again.

[chrisfarley]

24 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

Pretty sure the doctors make those calls

Seems like the player would have some say in it.  Do you think Derek Rose would come back when the doctor tells him? (insert smiley face)

[Superman]

2 hours ago, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

Didn't we just beat Denver? Soundly?

[ColtsBlueFL]

7 hours ago, chrisfarley said:

Seems like the player would have some say in it.  Do you think Derek Rose would come back when the doctor tells him? (insert smiley face)

I think NFL players have little pull these days. If the medical team doesn't clear them, the coaches generally won't over rule them; as witnessed here-

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-videos/0ap3000000596476/Ron-Rivera-gets-heated-during-press-conference

If medical team clears a player, coach makes the decision. If players says he can't go when the medical team says there is no medical limitation, then player better have good reason. Typically it's the opposite though, player wants back in the lineup but docs won't allow it.

I can understand Matt has had to play a lot and the fuel tank empty much faster at his age.  Hope he can perform just one or two more games.

[Colts_Fan12]

3 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Agenda based fandom.    Interesting

I wanted us to lose to secure Andrew sometimes losing is for the better just like that year we lost and now we have the best young QB in the NFL 

[crazycolt1]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎12‎:‎46‎:‎02‎, Colts_Fan12 said:

I just wanted whatever it takes to get Grigson fired if that's miss the playoffs then so be it 

You have to be the first fan in history to hope and wish their team losses. With fans like that who needs Patriot fans coming to the forum?

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

WE already beat Denver.

[crazycolt1]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2015‎ ‎12‎:‎29‎:‎39‎, Colts_Fan12 said:

Don't matter if Grigson is the one making the pick he will just blow it like the last 3 1st round picks 

SO you think Luck is a bust? Trading a pick away is not drafting. The verdict is still out on Dorsett. Wrong on all three at this point.

[southwest1]

4 hours ago, Coltsman1788 said:

We own Cincy, Denver and Kansas City.  I'd welcome playing any of them in the post season.  But if we see Pittsburgh or New England this team will be nationally undressed and humiliated yet again. I don't care to see the Colts get molly whopped again.

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that INDY has owned Cincy. Yes, we have beaten them in the regular season before that's true CM1788. However, the Bengals keep knocking at the Playoffs door & once they walk thru it nobody really knows how that team would respond under the bright lights. 

I do agree with you though. I have a feeling if we face the Steelers again we will be in for yet another thrashing. I can't lie mostly to myself. 

[Colts_Fan12]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

SO you think Luck is a bust? Trading a pick away is not drafting. The verdict is still out on Dorsett. Wrong on all three at this point.

Where the hell did you get luck from? Can you count I said the last 3 that would be Dorsett Trich and Werner. Werner is a huge bust he's a healthy freaking scratch every week now. Trading a first on a RB is ALSO a waste. While dorsett may be a good player he wasn't the best choice. So yes he has blown the last 3 that has nothing to do with luck what so ever.

[NewColtsFan]

19 hours ago, RollerColt said:

This is why I don't believe in the whole "give up this season and rebuild for next year" mantra. Grigson doesn't seem to put as much focus on the draft. He searches for the diamond in the rough free agents.

 

Goodness gracious, where does this come from?

This is about as silly as can be.....   pure nonsense.     100% false.   

I don't know how else to put it.   

And if you think I'm being too harsh,  it's because you're not alone in this view.

A complete mystery to me why anyone in their right mind would think this......?

 

[southwest1]

9 hours ago, SteelDragon said:

Yeah,  that 45-7 emasculation was well worth hanging up that AFC Finalist banner,

I think about this question a lot or the inference behind it anyway SD. Is it worth getting to the game before the SB if you ultimately knew you were gonna get pulverized? Nobody remembers the close but no call teams. Hades, they can't even recall the last 5 Lombardi losers. Man, getting humiliated so close to the promise land blows. I don't care what anyone says there are no blue participation ribbons for AFC runner-up. 

I liken it to a couple credits short of a college degree that prevents a person from landing a high paying job. Yes, you're a well rounded person, but if you don't cross that finish line in the end, your sacrifice means absolutely nothing. It's not PC to say that, but it's the truth. 

Getting to the AFC Championship Game & royally losing is worse than never having made the post season at all. 

When Peyton Manning lost the SB in 2013 to the Seattle Seahawks, I can promise you that his brother Eli telling him it was a remarkable achievement to play in 3 SBs & win 1 of them was of little comfort to #18. Don't give me that good sportsmanship nonsense either. Deep down every NFL QB wants to win 1 ring & hopefully more. So this it's a honor just to play in one is a creative fib to me bordering on hogwash. 

I agree 100% SD despite Superman's well intentioned optimism earlier on this page. 

[crazycolt1]

1 hour ago, Colts_Fan12 said:

Where the hell did you get luck from? Can you count I said the last 3 that would be Dorsett Trich and Werner. Werner is a huge bust he's a healthy freaking scratch every week now. Trading a first on a RB is ALSO a waste. While dorsett may be a good player he wasn't the best choice. So yes he has blown the last 3 that has nothing to do with luck what so ever.

I stand corrected. Dorsett is not a bust. The TRich trade at the time was thought to be a good move. But when your agenda is bashing Grigson it don't matter what he does, did or what he might do. You will find fault with anything. Go ahead and overlook the good things and hand pick your comments and opinions to push your narrow minded point of view.

[2006Coltsbestever]

7 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

You also said the pats were going undefeated.  Your fortune telling skills are broken

I seem to recall there were a few in here that said the Pats were going undefeated. They may not even get a Bye now

[jvan1973]

8 hours ago, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

We already beat Denver

[2006Coltsbestever]

8 hours ago, MTC said:

I'm still rooting for us to make the playoffs, but honestly this team is one and done. 

Even if we make it past the wild card round, there is no way we can beat a team like CIN, DEN, or NE.

We can beat Cincy or Denver. We have proven it time and again, the Pats are the one we haven't beat. Maybe it's time? I still think Denver will win the SB and Peyton will come back but we could beat them in the Playoffs as we play them great for some odd reason.

[RollerColt]

3 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

Goodness gracious, where does this come from?

This is about as silly as can be.....   pure nonsense.     100% false.   

I don't know how else to put it.   

And if you think I'm being too harsh,  it's because you're not alone in this view.

A complete mystery to me why anyone in their right mind would think this......?

 

My apologies. Crazy Monday coupled with lack of sleep and a pregnant wife who also was lacking sleep made me a bit loopy yesterday. It's kinda embarrassing to read my post now heh...

[Coltsman1788]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

I don't know if I would go so far as to say that INDY has owned Cincy. Yes, we have beaten them in the regular season before that's true CM1788. However, the Bengals keep knocking at the Playoffs door & once they walk thru it nobody really knows how that team would respond under the bright lights. 

I do agree with you though. I have a feeling if we face the Steelers again we will be in for yet another thrashing. I can't lie mostly to myself. 

Agreed that adding Cincy to my list was a bit premature but we did beat them in the playoffs last year pretty handily albeit without A.J. Green.  So it's more than just having beat them in the regular season.  I'd certainly feel better about potentially facing them than I would about playing either Pittsburgh or New England again.  So I'm hoping Cincy comes away with the # 1 seed and that we get to go up there at some point.  

[ColtRider]

Summation of the thread (so far) :

(in my best Herm Edwards voice) :  You-play-to-win-the-game!