MVP through week 13

[Moose Of Woe]

Who ya got? Watt for me. Newton a close second.

I still think Rodgers is the best QB in the league, but he has zero to work with. With GB going nowhere Newton is a bigger asset to his offense/team.  Newton isn't as good of a passer as Rodgers, but without Newton that  CAR offense would have nothing to compliment their good defense.

[Synthetic]

 

Cam Newton over JJ Watt. 

 

I don't even get how Watt could win an MVP when his team is trash.

 

I understand a lot of people hate Cam Newton, most of it over stupid stuff ("wah, he celebrates too much") but he has led the Panthers to an undefeated streak, and as painful as that may be for us fans of other NFC South teams, he's still a good quarterback. Stats don't tell the whole story at all, his stats might not be jaw dropping but he's winning games. 

[amfootball]

Right now Newton is the front runner unless he loses a game. His stats are middle of the pack but if he goes unbeaten, the award is his. After him is Brady who leads the league in yards and passing touchdowns but the Pats have hid a skid and need to probably win out for him to get it over Newton assuming the Panthers keep rolling. Palmer is probably next but a distant third.

[BloodyChamp]

Not sure who I got (other) but there are 3 insane defenses this year which is 3 more than usual. There are also a few teams winning games thanks to their OL more than anything else. Cam just isn't it but if they go 16-0 I can't complain about the Joe Namath rule taking effect.

[Blue Horseshoe]

Newton, not even close.  Then come Palmer and Watt.  Probably, Peterson at 4th.

Why is Rodgers even on the poll?

[P-Money]

Newton then Brady.  Only because his team is undefeated so far.  They lose a game and he's out.  Brady's stats are much better at this point.  It's a shame that Big Ben went down with his knee because that dude was tearing it up before he went down and after.  He's missed four games and still has 2700 yards. 90 yards behind Cam.  

[amfootball]

If Watt did not win it last year after the historic season he put up, there is no way he is winning this year. I doubt he gets one vote. The race is between Cam and Brady with Palmer a somewhat distant third.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Scram Newton 

[oldunclemark]

Brady...He carries them...they'd be 2-10 without him

[Gramz]

Denver Defense

[southwest1]

Cam Newton hands down because other than Ted Ginn Jr. & Greg Olson as reliable weapons, Mr. Superman doesn't have a ton of play makers to choose from & the Panthers are still perfect.

[aaron11]

if we are voting right now it's Cam.

this could be the year JJ takes it, if the texans can get hot and make the playoffs, while the panthers loose a game or two

no QB or RB has had a super elite season from start to finish stat wise, could make it interesting for once

[Gavin]

Has to be Tom Brady I think, He has more total TD's. More passing yards. Higher completion percentage and considering he don't have the legs of Cam Brady has only 4 less rushing TD's on 80 less rush attempts

[southwest1]

1 hour ago, Gavin said:

Has to be Tom Brady I think, He has more total TD's. More passing yards. Higher completion percentage and considering he don't have the legs of Cam Brady has only 4 less rushing TD's on 80 less rush attempts

In my mind Gavin, because Brady has been so elite in terms of stats & numbers, the MVP vote actually works against him right now since well Brady is ho hum Brady. Nobody & I mean nobody saw Newton winning 12 games in August let alone December man. 

Cam & Kuechly have made these Southern cats growl when they weren't even a blip on the NFL powerhouse landscape 5 months ago. 

[Gavin]

2 minutes ago, southwest1 said:

In my mind Gavin, because Brady has been so elite in terms of stats & numbers, the MVP vote actually works against him right now since well Brady is ho hum Brady. Nobody & I mean nobody saw Newton winning 12 games in August let alone December man. 

Cam & Kuechly have made these Southern cats growl when they weren't even a blip on the NFL powerhouse landscape 5 months ago. 

Certainly a casr can be made for Cam and the award is not the BEST player but the most VALUABLE plus if either player went down for an extended period of time I don't see either team currently being able to sustain winning even with the genius of Hoodie and his staff

[tvturner]

Cam

[2006Coltsbestever]

Tom is the MVP, they may have lost the last 2 games but his stats smoke Cam's. Cam's stats are not eye popping at all. I thought his game at NO was impressive but he's had games where his Defense has bailed him out bigtime. The only way he should get MVP is if Carolina goes 16-0. No way Watt deserves MVP, he was better last season.

[southwest1]

2 hours ago, Gavin said:

Certainly a casr can be made for Cam and the award is not the BEST player but the most VALUABLE plus if either player went down for an extended period of time I don't see either team currently being able to sustain winning even with the genius of Hoodie and his staff

Yes, the regular season is far from over I will admit, but Cam Newton is the most valuable player on his team's roster which would be at a standstill if Newton received a season ending injury.

When Brady suffered a knee injury in 2008, Matt Cassel still won games that year with an 11-5 record so it's already been established that NE can still win NFL games in Tom's absence. I highly doubt that Carolina has the backup QB to hold down the fort in Newton's absence solidifying to me that Cam as an offensive weapon would be a more devastating loss than Brady & hence more valuable. 

In addition, Jimmy G. in Massachusetts due to the uncertainty of the 4 game suspension of Brady at the start of the year [preseason preparation wise] gave me a glimpse of rep work that showed me Jimmy could also win games in Brady's absence. Yes, I know. We will never know for sure. Will we? 

[southwest1]

29 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tom is the MVP, they may have lost the last 2 games but his stats smoke Cam's. Cam's stats are not eye popping at all. I thought his game at NO was impressive but he's had games where his Defense has bailed him out bigtime. The only way he should get MVP is if Carolina goes 16-0. No way Watt deserves MVP, he was better last season.

True CBE & even if Cam & his Panthers went 16-0 with a perfect regular season record, MVP voters would still probably lean in Brady's direction because they would claim that the defending SB Champion went without Gronk & Edelman for a lengthy time & yet somehow Brady managed to close the gap vs Philadelphia which stunned even me. 

Here's what's unfair to Cam though: He's been instrumental in winning his division in back to back seasons without WR Kelvin Benjamin for instance &, it's almost as if according to the media it doesn't matter, because Newton hasn't been playing at an elite level long enough yet. Cam has had an incredible breakout year in terms of production especially his Seahawks victory & it feels as though Brady's longevity of excellence takes precedence over Cam's elite coming out QB party. JMO. 

I don't believe in punishing Newton simply because he hasn't played in the NFL as long as Brady has. Plus, MVP awards are annual season awards not a lifetime achievement award like the HOF is. Cam at this moment deserves the MVP & if I had a vote to submit, Cam gets mine ASAP with no regrets or 2nd thoughts. 

[southwest1]

On December 8, 2015 at 0:40 PM, Gabriel Alexander Morillo said:

Scram Newton 

At the start of his professional career in Carolina, Cam was a let my legs get me outta trouble dude you're exactly right Gabriel. But, if you watch Newton now he's a vastly improved pocket passer who is very strategic when he runs in 2015. Cam's not using his feet to rescue him so often anymore. Instead, he's only running when nobody's spying on him or everybody's covered downfield & he can slide for the 1st down. 

I'm really impressed with how far Cam has come. He doesn't pout anymore; he leads & carries that team on his back if necessary. A far cry from sulking when things used to go bad. Bravo Mr. Newton! 

I also know that Peyton Manning & Tom Brady can't play forever & if Cam Newton & Andrew Luck represented an NFL QB changing on the guard. I'd be cool with that. 

[southwest1]

Speaking of Luck, I was shopping at a local Walgreens today or killing time & I came across this mini Chewbacca

I figured what the hades. The new JJ Abrams Star Wars movie is coming out & since I call Luck Chewy anyway due to his furry beard why not buy this for my computer. It's for little kids but if you squeeze it makes a w-ookie sound. Nice! My childhood was rekindled for about $10.  There's a Vader & Yoda one too. 

[Solon]

Cam's got my vote. Cam's situation is no different than Brady's. Patchwork offensive line with hardly any weapons except a all-pro caliber tight end. I don't know why that's ignored such much. 

[Gavin]

4 hours ago, southwest1 said:

Yes, the regular season is far from over I will admit, but Cam Newton is the most valuable player on his team's roster which would be at a standstill if Newton received a season ending injury.

When Brady suffered a knee injury in 2008, Matt Cassel still won games that year with an 11-5 record so it's already been established that NE can still win NFL games in Tom's absence. I highly doubt that Carolina has the backup QB to hold down the fort in Newton's absence solidifying to me that Cam as an offensive weapon would be a more devastating loss than Brady & hence more valuable. 

In addition, Jimmy G. in Massachusetts due to the uncertainty of the 4 game suspension of Brady at the start of the year [preseason preparation wise] gave me a glimpse of rep work that showed me Jimmy could also win games in Brady's absence. Yes, I know. We will never know for sure. Will we? 

"When Brady suffered a knee injury in 2008, Matt Cassel still won games that year with an 11-5 record so it's already been established that NE can still win NFL games in Tom's absence."

 

2008 is completely irrelevant to 2015, Different rosters....in 2008 NE's roster was actually better, Teddy Bruschi, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Matt Light

[NFLfan]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Tom is the MVP, they may have lost the last 2 games but his stats smoke Cam's. Cam's stats are not eye popping at all. I thought his game at NO was impressive but he's had games where his Defense has bailed him out bigtime. The only way he should get MVP is if Carolina goes 16-0. No way Watt deserves MVP, he was better last season.

I disagree. Check out the Panthers roster from the beginning of the year til now. Cam has had Greg Olsen and no one else. His WRs are Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery. 

MVP is much more than who has the best stats, IMO. In NE, Brady is throwing TDs when other teams would have given the ball to his RB. The Pats seem averse to running the ball. Since Brady is throwing the ball much more often than Cam is and to more talented receivers, of course his stats will look better than Cam's.   Brady has passed 130 times more than Cam has but has only 6 more TDs than Cam (31 to 25).  

I think Cam has been more valuable to his team than Brady has been to his. Carson Palmer is a close second.

[2006Coltsbestever]

51 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

I disagree. Check out the Panthers roster from the beginning of the year til now. Cam has had Greg Olsen and no one else. His WRs are Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery. 

MVP is much more than who has the best stats, IMO. In NE, Brady is throwing TDs when other teams would have given the ball to his RB. The Pats seem averse to running the ball. Since Brady is throwing the ball much more often than Cam is and to more talented receivers, of course his stats will look better than Cam's.   Brady has passed 130 times more than Cam has but has only 6 more TDs than Cam (31 to 25).  

I think Cam has been more valuable to his team than Brady has been to his. Carson Palmer is a close second.

Great points. I just think Tom is the better player but that doesn't always mean the better player deserves MVP to your points. I just look at Andrew's season last year and he wasn't even considered for MVP. Andrew led the league with 40 TD's, won 11 games, and without him the Colts go 8-8 at best IMO. I just have seen several games where Cam's Defense has saved him, against Indy is one example.

[NFLfan]

12 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great points. I just think Tom is the better player but that doesn't always mean the better player deserves MVP to your points. I just look at Andrew's season last year and he wasn't even considered for MVP. Andrew led the league with 40 TD's, won 11 games, and without him the Colts go 8-8 at best IMO. I just have seen several games where Cam's Defense has saved him, against Indy is one example.

Football.is a team sport. Sometimes you need your teammates to pick you up. Every QB has had bad games. That game against Indy is not a good game to point out. They were playing in the rain. IIRC, Andrew did not play that much better. I think the inclement weather affected their passing game.

As for last year, I think Andrew should have been a strong candidate for MVP.  He had a great year despite taking more hits than any other QB. He is a great player who needs better pass protection. He will win an MVP award eventually. Don't worry.  

[amfootball]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

I disagree. Check out the Panthers roster from the beginning of the year til now. Cam has had Greg Olsen and no one else. His WRs are Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery. 

MVP is much more than who has the best stats, IMO. In NE, Brady is throwing TDs when other teams would have given the ball to his RB. The Pats seem averse to running the ball. Since Brady is throwing the ball much more often than Cam is and to more talented receivers, of course his stats will look better than Cam's.   Brady has passed 130 times more than Cam has but has only 6 more TDs than Cam (31 to 25).  

I think Cam has been more valuable to his team than Brady has been to his. Carson Palmer is a close second.

NE does not run because its offensive line is in shambles. That is the biggest difference IMO between Carolina and NE. Cam has a much better offensive line and run game. Brady has a terrible Oline and Blount who is a JAG except when he plays the Colts. Brady is asked to do more for his team to win every week than Cam on top of being a better QB hands down. He is blowing Cam away in every measurable passing stat this season. That being said, if Cam goes undefeated the MVP is his as that is such an amazing feat. If he loses a game then it probably goes to Brady or it is a split MVP between him and Brady. Palmer is a distant third at this point but certainly has a chance to close in these next 4 games.

[NFLfan]

4 minutes ago, amfootball said:

NE does not run because its offensive line is in shambles. That is the biggest difference IMO between Carolina and NE. Cam has a much better offensive line and run game. Brady has a terrible Oline and Blount who is a JAG except when he plays the Colts. Brady is asked to do more for his team to win every week than Cam on top of being a better QB hands down. He is blowing Cam away in every measurable passing stat this season. That being said, if Cam goes undefeated the MVP is his as that is such an amazing feat. If he loses a game then it probably goes to Brady or it is a split MVP between him and Brady. Palmer is a distant third at this point but certainly has a chance to close in these next 4 games.

I am not surprised that you see it this way. In week 2 when his O-line was intact, Brady threw 59 times!! Of course he will have more opportunities for more yards and TDs, throwing the ball so frequently. The coaching staff gives him every opportunity to throw TDs,  even when the ball is on the 2 yard line when others would run the ball. His offensive weapons are much better than Cam's. As much as I like Olsen, he is not the transcendent player that Gronk is. And, the WRs? There is no comparison. Cotchery, a great guy, was cut by the Jets and the Steelers. That is Cam's #2 WR. Ted Ginn Jr. is not much better. 

Sorry, Cam is doing it on offense almost completely by himself. 

[Yehoodi]

1 hour ago, NFLfan said:

I am not surprised that you see it this way. In week 2 when his O-line was intact, Brady threw 59 times!! Of course he will have more opportunities for more yards and TDs, throwing the ball so frequently. The coaching staff gives him every opportunity to throw TDs,  even when the ball is on the 2 yard line when others would run the ball. His offensive weapons are much better than Cam's. As much as I like Olsen, he is not the transcendent player that Gronk is. And, the WRs? There is no comparison. Cotchery, a great guy, was cut by the Jets and the Steelers. That is Cam's #2 WR. Ted Ginn Jr. is not much better. 

Sorry, Cam is doing it on offense almost completely by himself. 

 

First off, in week 2 our Oline was not in tack as starters Wendell did not start the season (later placed in IR) , Stork was on PUP and Connolly retired in the off season.  Second, the reason why we threw the ball as we are not the best running team (and our best back at the time Lewis was a back that is better in space, he is now on IR) and Buffalo had a great DL, so why run into a wall.

Third, not sure what you mean by "coaching staff gives him the opportunity to throw TDs even from the 2 yard line"  I take it you have a stat to show this point?   Oh by the way here are the numbers for the two teams scoring:

NE: 43 TDs, 31 passing, 12 rushing, 0 ST, 0 defense

Carolina: 43 TDs, 25 passing, 13 rushing, 0  ST, 5 defense

So you claim that the pats are always "passing" for TDs, then how come we have 12 rushing TDs, just a mere one fewer than the Panthers?  Is it maybe that we have a lot of scoring drives due to a successful offense and that we punch the ball in 43 times to Carolina's 38 times.  If we were a pass happy team we would not have nearly as many rushing TDs as Carolina, unless of course you are going to claim the same with Carolina.

As for weapons.  Who exactly is Brandon LaFell, Edelman could not find a job when he went to FA a few years ago, and Amendola is just not getting in a grove. Gronk is great I grant you that, but our receiving corps is not all worldly, altho I am happen with our receivers. 

As for the MVP, it should be interesting especially if the Panthers lose a game or two and the Pats run the table.  I can certainly see the voters giving it to Cam if they go 16-0.

But as the stats go, you really can not make an argument between the two.

And as a side note, the pats D and ST have not score a TD all year.  whereas the panthers have 5.

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

[BrentMc11]

I go Brady too.....but a name i did not see even mentioned was Andy Dalton.  I know he has not been in the 'big game' as yet, he has single handedly carried that team.  OK...the defense is pretty good.

[Gramz]

29 minutes ago, Yehoodi said:

 

First off, in week 2 our Oline was not in tack as starters Wendell did not start the season (later placed in IR) , Stork was on PUP and Connolly retired in the off season.  Second, the reason why we threw the ball as we are not the best running team (and our best back at the time Lewis was a back that is better in space, he is now on IR) and Buffalo had a great DL, so why run into a wall.

Third, not sure what you mean by "coaching staff gives him the opportunity to throw TDs even from the 2 yard line"  I take it you have a stat to show this point?   Oh by the way here are the numbers for the two teams scoring:

NE: 43 TDs, 31 passing, 12 rushing, 0 ST, 0 defense

Carolina: 43 TDs, 25 passing, 13 rushing, 0  ST, 5 defense

 

oops, nevermind.  I missed the 5 defensive TD's when I made my comment.  Carry on....

Edited December 10, 2015 by Gramz
oops,,, nevermind... I didn't see the Defense TD's when I made my comment. Carry on

[2006Coltsbestever]

I am not going to let my bias hate for the Patriots get in my way on this one. I think Tom deserves it up to this point based on his Stats more than anything but he is 10-2 also. It's Stats and team record of course. Now if Cam goes 16-0 I will change my tune because that never happens with the exception of Tom's Pats in 2007.

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, BrentMc11 said:

I go Brady too.....but a name i did not see even mentioned was Andy Dalton.  I know he has not been in the 'big game' as yet, he has single handedly carried that team.  OK...the defense is pretty good.

Dalton has had a surprisingly consistent Very Good season, I think the 1 game that really hurts him (and I know it's just 1 game) is that Texans game in Primetime. That was brutal on Monday Night Football.

[BrentMc11]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Dalton has had a surprisingly consistent Very Good season, I think the 1 game that really hurts him (and I know it's just 1 game) is that Texans game in Primetime. That was brutal on Monday Night Football.

Cam has had some close calls too.....you are right though.  That game against the Texans was a debacle.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BrentMc11 said:

Cam has had some close calls too.....you are right though.  That game against the Texans was a debacle.

Yeah Cam hasn't looked spectacular in several games = Colts game and how about the Cowboys game where he didn't even have do anything LOL. His Defense scored twice, Curtis Painter could've won that game haha. Having said that Cam is a Very Good QB so I don't want it to seem like I am dumping on Cam. He is having a solid season. Pretty cool he is 12-0 as a starter. He hasn't messed anything up so he deserves huge credit for that and his performance against the Saints was GREAT.  

[amfootball]

1 hour ago, Yehoodi said:

 

First off, in week 2 our Oline was not in tack as starters Wendell did not start the season (later placed in IR) , Stork was on PUP and Connolly retired in the off season.  Second, the reason why we threw the ball as we are not the best running team (and our best back at the time Lewis was a back that is better in space, he is now on IR) and Buffalo had a great DL, so why run into a wall.

Third, not sure what you mean by "coaching staff gives him the opportunity to throw TDs even from the 2 yard line"  I take it you have a stat to show this point?   Oh by the way here are the numbers for the two teams scoring:

NE: 43 TDs, 31 passing, 12 rushing, 0 ST, 0 defense

Carolina: 43 TDs, 25 passing, 13 rushing, 0  ST, 5 defense

So you claim that the pats are always "passing" for TDs, then how come we have 12 rushing TDs, just a mere one fewer than the Panthers?  Is it maybe that we have a lot of scoring drives due to a successful offense and that we punch the ball in 43 times to Carolina's 38 times.  If we were a pass happy team we would not have nearly as many rushing TDs as Carolina, unless of course you are going to claim the same with Carolina.

As for weapons.  Who exactly is Brandon LaFell, Edelman could not find a job when he went to FA a few years ago, and Amendola is just not getting in a grove. Gronk is great I grant you that, but our receiving corps is not all worldly, altho I am happen with our receivers. 

As for the MVP, it should be interesting especially if the Panthers lose a game or two and the Pats run the table.  I can certainly see the voters giving it to Cam if they go 16-0.

But as the stats go, you really can not make an argument between the two.

And as a side note, the pats D and ST have not score a TD all year.  whereas the panthers have 5.

 

Great stats here Yehoodi. It is amazing that Carolina has gotten 5 defensive scores and the Pats none. I really like the way our D has been playing this year but no scores and very few take aways as well. I hope that changes as the season winds down and we head into the post-season.

[Yehoodi]

2 hours ago, amfootball said:

Great stats here Yehoodi. It is amazing that Carolina has gotten 5 defensive scores and the Pats none. I really like the way our D has been playing this year but no scores and very few take aways as well. I hope that changes as the season winds down and we head into the post-season.

 

yes it would be nice if our D can step up and get a TD or two either in December or in the playoffs if we are fortunate enough to make the playoffs.  Actually we would of had a ST TD had Harmon not knocked down Amendola earlier this season . 

Our D has played solid otherwise, but as we all know you really need help in all three phases of the game to have a good chance to win a game. 

[southwest1]

7 hours ago, Gavin said:

"When Brady suffered a knee injury in 2008, Matt Cassel still won games that year with an 11-5 record so it's already been established that NE can still win NFL games in Tom's absence."

 

2008 is completely irrelevant to 2015, Different rosters....in 2008 NE's roster was actually better, Teddy Bruschi, Randy Moss, Wes Welker, Matt Light

Nice post Gavin & you're exactly right a 2008 roster isn't valid in an MVP argument for 2015. My only point was that NFL fans has seen a productive season without Brady so we know that the Patriots can still be successful because precedent has been established to validate it, but with Cam Newton, we have no idea what their record would look like or how much they would struggle. But, I suspect their loses would proliferate dramatically & the Panthers wouldn't make the playoffs without Cam. 

Because of this unproven hypothesis, I am compelled to give my MVP nod of approval to Mr. Newton. 

[ColtRider]

7 hours ago, NFLfan said:

I disagree. Check out the Panthers roster from the beginning of the year til now. Cam has had Greg Olsen and no one else. His WRs are Ted Ginn and Jericho Cotchery. 

MVP is much more than who has the best stats, IMO. In NE, Brady is throwing TDs when other teams would have given the ball to his RB. The Pats seem averse to running the ball. Since Brady is throwing the ball much more often than Cam is and to more talented receivers, of course his stats will look better than Cam's.   Brady has passed 130 times more than Cam has but has only 6 more TDs than Cam (31 to 25).  

I think Cam has been more valuable to his team than Brady has been to his. Carson Palmer is a close second.

Right on the money as usual, NFLfan. Cam Newton is absolutely the MVP to his team. And, it's not even close IMO. You take away Cam from the Panthers, whatta ya got? It's not 12-0, that's for sure. And to be honest, I wonder if they would have a winning record. Newton is so critical to Carolina how could you not see him as MVP? I get Palmer. I get Brady. I get the notion that they may be in the same vicinity. Defense & backups nullify it for me. Watt, Gronk, Rodgers, no way.

And about the "Zebras". Considering this year? Bwahahahaha. So, there's that.

[Coffeedrinker]

Please, it's MVP that means most valuable player, there are 3 or 4 QBs who, if on the Panthers this year, would most likely still be undefeated.  In addition to that, his celebrations are the type that only the young and those with IQs below 90 enjoy.

It has to be Watt.  he has almost single handily turned the Texans season around and put them in the playoff hunt (despite that fact that according to some defensive players don't do that for teams).