Nick Saban

[Jules]

They are all rich. But Irsay isn't in the top ten richest nfl owners

http://www.chatsports.com/nfl/a/How-Much-Is-Each-NFL-Owner-Worth-19465

 

Thats not a good source. But, yes indeed they are all very very rich. Not all of them are billionaires or multi billionaires though.

 

I saw one once where Irsay was much higher. It was much better resarched but it was a few years ago I saw it.

 

 

That link is bogus since Kraft is MUCH higher then 9th. He is easily in the top 3 with complete individual net worth. I take out the family net worth.....

 

 

But, to avoid going off topic too much and bugging the mods we should end this.

[jvan1973]

Thats not a good source. But, yes indeed they are all very very rich. Not all of them are billionaires or multi billionaires though.

I saw one once where Irsay was much higher. It was much better resarched but it was a few years ago I saw it.

That link is bogus since Kraft is MUCH higher then 9th. He is easily in the top 3 with complete individual net worth. I take out the family net worth.....

But, to avoid going off topic too much and bugging the mods we should end this.

How about forbes?

http://www.forbes.com/pictures/eddf45ljek/the-leagues-wealthiest/

[ColtsBlueFL]

I am, he is a billionaire

 

Exactly right.  Now, according to Forbes, Irsay is worth 2.3 billion.  Also according to Forbes, the Indianapolis Colts are the #27th most valuable worldwide franchise at 1.4 billion.

 

http://www.forbes.com/profile/james-irsay/

http://www.indystar.com/story/sports/nfl/colts/2015/07/17/indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-jim-irsay-nfl-team-values-forbes/30289367/

[Narcosys]

The only person I would want besides Pagano is harbaugh. Saban can do college because he can recruit the best from everywhere. When he has to work with what he given, he isn't as good. He tried the nfl and failed. No thanks.

[BOTT]

Saban hasn't produced one starting quality QB even in the midst of his success. I would certainly hire him to coach and fix the O-Line since that is a strength, but his offense doesn't utilize (nor apparently find) QB's with Luck's talent. What evidence is there to show he'd be a good option for the Colts? He FAILED miserably and ran away after his last attempt in the NFL. He's a college coach, where he gets the cream of the crop year after year at all position groups. He will not have any such luxury in the NFL. He's not a coach, say from a smaller or less top end school, who has to demonstrate that he can develop talent and get much more from them than they came to him with. He simply has 3 guys at nearly any starting spot available to plug in that are usually better than his competition. He'll never have such an advantage. You ask who DOES develop great QB's,. I would look to smaller schools who still play tough and successfully against better schools with higher profiles. He doesn't really have to develop anything, he just uses the blunt force power of the program name to get the best ingredients year after year and let's them do their thing. Why in the world do you think he could come here and have lasting success, especially when he has to do it with 4, 5, 6, 7th round picks and UDFA's? He seems to live in the extreme opposite world than a coach like Belichick who proves he can do more with less. All Saban has ever done is more with more than anyone else.

PS: hmmm... didn't he FAIL to get Dree Brees? So you're making my point. If he has to play in the NFL reality, he's not suited.

Ok, so you can't name anyone who is producing quarterbacks. I didn't think so.

He failed miserably? He went 9-7 and 6-10 with Gus Frerotte and Joey Harrington.

When has Belichick done more with less? Without the greatest QB of his generation, the great Belichick is below .500. Oh yeah, the great Belichick quit on the Jets before he even coached a game.

PS: that's just silly and uninformed

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

I believe he is by virtue of owning the Colts.

Don't think he's got a billion in cash in some bank(s)....

But the Colts are worth well over one billion..... so, as the owner, he's got some serious net worth.

I suppose that this is true, that in net worth he is a billionaire.

[JPFolks]

Ok, so you can't name anyone who is producing quarterbacks. I didn't think so.

He failed miserably? He went 9-7 and 6-10 with Gus Frerotte and Joey Harrington.

When has Belichick done more with less? Without the greatest QB of his generation, the great Belichick is below .500. Oh yeah, the great Belichick quit on the Jets before he even coached a game.

PS: that's just silly and uninformed

Okay, name the great QB's Saban has developed?  Explain what he brought to pro football previously which would offer any idea of what positives he might bring to Indianapolis?  Show us specific examples, plays, schemes, decision making etc. where his two year NFL audition indicated he deserved another stint?  

 

So your premise that no one else had developed a Pro-Stlye NFL ready QB makes your point that Saban should be hired?  Really, then wouldn't that apply to all other coaches?  The reality is that ANY coach who has developed a SINGLE professional NFL QB who has had success have ALL surpassed Saban.   So take your choice of any coach who has coached any QB in the NFL who has had a winning record as a pro and there's your list.   Remember, it was YOU who asked the question, I never acknowledged it was worth asking.  The fact is he's given no indication that he's a hot prospect to be an NFL coach.  And he's already too old to come and learn on the job.  If he worked in any number of jobs in the US, he'd be entering retirement phase of his life.  Why bring in an ancient coach? Because he'll related to our ancient players?  They can go to AARP meetings together? 

 

We need a cutting edge ready to go OC or DC with an upward trajectory to his career working in the NFL who is ramping up to being a head coach.  If that type of candidate is either not available or not interested, then we should keep status quo.  After all, only a couple teams have had better records or success than Pagano has, it is far more likely for us to regress than to improve, which would require Super Bowl appearances going forward since Pagano got us to the AFC Championship last year.  You shouldn't fire your coaches because they can't beat what people almost universally consider to be the current best coach and one of the best QB's of all time.  Two years ago they beat both Super Bowl participants when they faced them that same season.  Last year they lost to the Super Bowl Champions, as they did 3 years ago, both in the playoffs.  Frankly, Pagano has been one of the most successful coaches based on results in the NFL.  Nothing REMOTELY suggests that he needs to be replaced, let alone by Saban who again, by comparison to Pagano, was a complete failure who barely lasted 2 years.  

 

But go ahead and dream about Saban and scream ROLL TIDE til you lose your voice.  You've certainly provided zero evidence to suggest he'd be a better NFL coach than Pagano has been.  

[BOTT]

Okay, name the great QB's Saban has developed?  Explain what he brought to pro football previously which would offer any idea of what positives he might bring to Indianapolis?  Show us specific examples, plays, schemes, decision making etc. where his two year NFL audition indicated he deserved another stint?  

 

So your premise that no one else had developed a Pro-Stlye NFL ready QB makes your point that Saban should be hired?  Really, then wouldn't that apply to all other coaches?  The reality is that ANY coach who has developed a SINGLE professional NFL QB who has had success have ALL surpassed Saban.   So take your choice of any coach who has coached any QB in the NFL who has had a winning record as a pro and there's your list.   Remember, it was YOU who asked the question, I never acknowledged it was worth asking.  The fact is he's given no indication that he's a hot prospect to be an NFL coach.  And he's already too old to come and learn on the job.  If he worked in any number of jobs in the US, he'd be entering retirement phase of his life.  Why bring in an ancient coach? Because he'll related to our ancient players?  They can go to AARP meetings together? 

 

We need a cutting edge ready to go OC or DC with an upward trajectory to his career working in the NFL who is ramping up to being a head coach.  If that type of candidate is either not available or not interested, then we should keep status quo.  After all, only a couple teams have had better records or success than Pagano has, it is far more likely for us to regress than to improve, which would require Super Bowl appearances going forward since Pagano got us to the AFC Championship last year.  You shouldn't fire your coaches because they can't beat what people almost universally consider to be the current best coach and one of the best QB's of all time.  Two years ago they beat both Super Bowl participants when they faced them that same season.  Last year they lost to the Super Bowl Champions, as they did 3 years ago, both in the playoffs.  Frankly, Pagano has been one of the most successful coaches based on results in the NFL.  Nothing REMOTELY suggests that he needs to be replaced, let alone by Saban who again, by comparison to Pagano, was a complete failure who barely lasted 2 years.  

 

But go ahead and dream about Saban and scream ROLL TIDE til you lose your voice.  You've certainly provided zero evidence to suggest he'd be a better NFL coach than Pagano has been.

TL;DR

[JPFolks]

TL;DR

You wanted a response, so when it proves you wrong, you plead illiteracy it appears.  Nice. Don't worry, I will shorten it for you; I proved you wrong.  

[BOTT]

You wanted a response, so when it proves you wrong, you plead illiteracy it appears.  Nice. Don't worry, I will shorten it for you; I proved you wrong.

So your are one of the posters who just wants to claim a "win". But, I figured that out from you last silly post.

Frankly, I was hesitant to read your post because you wrote it. And then I read the first sentence and it confirmed my doubts.

[Coffeedrinker]

One thing that Saban brings to the table that I like: he won't be standing on the sidelines waiting to tell players "nice try" after they make a boneheaded mistake. He's definitely not that guy.

 

Why?  Has that proven to win more games in the NFL?

[Jackie Daytona]

Why?  Has that proven to win more games in the NFL?

No, but it is evidence of holding players accountable.....some people crave that, as we have gone a long, long, time as a fan base with seemingly no accountability for poor play...... it's a perception, and that is a perceived solution I suppose ( intense coach, visibly scolding for poor performance )

[Synthetic]

Nick Saban is trash, and there is no way in hell he's coming back to the NFL.

 

 

And before any of you cynical people jump on my throat, go look up his tenture in Miami. Go read that story where a player was foaming at the mouth and he just stepped over him and offered no assistance whatsoever.

 

 

I live in Alabama, and most will tell you that Saban is a jerk. 

 

 

He is not coming back to the NFL, just get over this. And even if he did, he would flat out suck. He was a failed coach in the NFL with Miami where he couldn't even convince his players that he had their back. The only reason he has championships is he goes to a college that spends over 50 million dollars a year on foobawl. 

 

If anything, Saban will go to Texas and not back in the NFL. He loves money more than anything. He's the highest paid sports coach in the country, and there's no way he's going to get more than 13 million a year (his salary at AL) in the NFL. 

 

 

I do not see Irsay hiring him whatsoever anyway. Colts would be better off mining for an actual coach that has NFL experience, and not a failed one that has a horrible reputation with his first tenure in the NFL. 

[Synthetic]

One thing that Saban brings to the table that I like: he won't be standing on the sidelines waiting to tell players "nice try" after they make a boneheaded mistake. He's definitely not that guy.

 

 

 

If that's the type of stuff from Saban that you admire, then you'll gladly enjoy this reading material. 

 

 

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/evans-saban-stepped-over-convulsing-player-29919

 

 

 

EVANS: Well, the first day of two-a-days. We had about a three-hour-plus practice in the morning in that south Florida sun. You guys know what it’s like down there in late July, early August. And then that night we had another practice under the lights, if I recall I think it was about from 6 to 9.

Jeno James, our best offensive lineman at the time, comes in and collapses after practice, uh, vomiting all kinds of stuff that would make a billygoat puke, eyes rolled in the back of his head. Myself, about four other lineman are trying to carry him from the locker room, to the training room. 

Obviously it’s a moment of panic, everyone, you know, we don’t know if this guy’s, you know, gonna die, I mean, the whole deal. But he’s so big and sweaty and heavy that we actually have to set him down in the hallway between the locker room and the training room.

Nick Saban literally just starts walking in, steps over Jeno James convulsing, doesn’t say a word, doesn’t try to help, goes upstairs, I don’t know what he does. But then obviously they get Jeno trauma-offed to the hospital.

Saban calls a team meeting about 10:30 that night, comes down and says, ‘You know, the captain of the ship can never show fear or indecision, we’ve always gotta have an answer, and so I had to go upstairs, that’s why I walked over Geno like that, I had to collect my thoughts and decide what’s best for our team.’

And I’m thinking to myself, I think along with Jason Taylor and Zach Thomasand Yeremiah Bell and all these other guys going, ‘Did he, does he really believe what he’s just saying?’ He showed no human emotion for one of his best players. He literally stepped over him when four or five grown men are trying to carry Jeno to the training room.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW Alabama hasn't won a championship now that the rigged BC$ has a playoff system, and no; they aren't winning it this year either. 

 

Take away the college that spends over 50+ million a year on football, and he's your average coach. 

[Coffeedrinker]

No, but it is evidence of holding players accountable.....some people crave that, as we have gone a long, long, time as a fan base with seemingly no accountability for poor play...... it's a perception, and that is a perceived solution I suppose ( intense coach, visibly scolding for poor performance )

Yelling at someone is not evidence of holding them responsible... it's only evidence that he is yelling at someone because he didn't do what the coach thought he should.

 

Where is this "seemingly no accountability" for poor play?  Players have been removed from the starting lineup for poor play, they have been released from their contracts for poor play, they've been released from the team for poor play.  How much more accountable can they make them?

[Dustin]

Nick Saban is trash, and there is no way in hell he's coming back to the NFL.

And before any of you cynical people jump on my throat, go look up his tenture in Miami. Go read that story where a player was foaming at the mouth and he just stepped over him and offered no assistance whatsoever.

I live in Alabama, and most will tell you that Saban is a jerk.

He is not coming back to the NFL, just get over this. And even if he did, he would flat out suck. He was a failed coach in the NFL with Miami where he couldn't even convince his players that he had their back. The only reason he has championships is he goes to a college that spends over 50 million dollars a year on foobawl.

If anything, Saban will go to Texas and not back in the NFL. He loves money more than anything. He's the highest paid sports coach in the country, and there's no way he's going to get more than 13 million a year (his salary at AL) in the NFL.

I do not see Irsay hiring him whatsoever anyway. Colts would be better off mining for an actual coach that has NFL experience, and not a failed one that has a horrible reputation with his first tenure in the NFL.

Bad post. Stick to Tecmo Bowl.

[BOTT]

Nick Saban is trash, and there is no way in hell he's coming back to the NFL.

And before any of you cynical people jump on my throat, go look up his tenture in Miami. Go read that story where a player was foaming at the mouth and he just stepped over him and offered no assistance whatsoever.

I live in Alabama, and most will tell you that Saban is a jerk.

He is not coming back to the NFL, just get over this. And even if he did, he would flat out suck. He was a failed coach in the NFL with Miami where he couldn't even convince his players that he had their back. The only reason he has championships is he goes to a college that spends over 50 million dollars a year on foobawl.

If anything, Saban will go to Texas and not back in the NFL. He loves money more than anything. He's the highest paid sports coach in the country, and there's no way he's going to get more than 13 million a year (his salary at AL) in the NFL.

I do not see Irsay hiring him whatsoever anyway. Colts would be better off mining for an actual coach that has NFL experience, and not a failed one that has a horrible reputation with his first tenure in the NFL.

Well, since you live in Alabama you must have the inside scoop

[Dustin]

If that's the type of stuff from Saban that you admire, then you'll gladly enjoy this reading material.

http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/evans-saban-stepped-over-convulsing-player-29919

"

BTW Alabama hasn't won a championship now that the rigged BC$ has a playoff system, and no; they aren't winning it this year either.

Take away the college that spends over 50+ million a year on football, and he's your average coach.

"Safety Yeremiah Bell, who was on that 2005, defended Saban on Wednesday.

"I think it was a lot worse than coach Saban knew," Bell said of James' condition, which was caused by dehydration brought on by gastroenteritis. "I just don't think that we, us as players, even knew how bad it was."

James had to be hospitalized that day but said he was visited in the hospital by Saban, who arrived at the hospital 45 minutes after James arrived and stayed until about 12:15 a.m.

"It made me feel pretty good about this team to see my head coach there," James said at the time."

[Coffeedrinker]

Okay, name the great QB's Saban has developed?  Explain what he brought to pro football previously which would offer any idea of what positives he might bring to Indianapolis?  Show us specific examples, plays, schemes, decision making etc. where his two year NFL audition indicated he deserved another stint?  

 

So your premise that no one else had developed a Pro-Stlye NFL ready QB makes your point that Saban should be hired?  Really, then wouldn't that apply to all other coaches?  The reality is that ANY coach who has developed a SINGLE professional NFL QB who has had success have ALL surpassed Saban.   So take your choice of any coach who has coached any QB in the NFL who has had a winning record as a pro and there's your list.   Remember, it was YOU who asked the question, I never acknowledged it was worth asking.  The fact is he's given no indication that he's a hot prospect to be an NFL coach.  And he's already too old to come and learn on the job.  If he worked in any number of jobs in the US, he'd be entering retirement phase of his life.  Why bring in an ancient coach? Because he'll related to our ancient players?  They can go to AARP meetings together? 

 

We need a cutting edge ready to go OC or DC with an upward trajectory to his career working in the NFL who is ramping up to being a head coach.  If that type of candidate is either not available or not interested, then we should keep status quo.  After all, only a couple teams have had better records or success than Pagano has, it is far more likely for us to regress than to improve, which would require Super Bowl appearances going forward since Pagano got us to the AFC Championship last year.  You shouldn't fire your coaches because they can't beat what people almost universally consider to be the current best coach and one of the best QB's of all time.  Two years ago they beat both Super Bowl participants when they faced them that same season.  Last year they lost to the Super Bowl Champions, as they did 3 years ago, both in the playoffs.  Frankly, Pagano has been one of the most successful coaches based on results in the NFL.  Nothing REMOTELY suggests that he needs to be replaced, let alone by Saban who again, by comparison to Pagano, was a complete failure who barely lasted 2 years.  

 

But go ahead and dream about Saban and scream ROLL TIDE til you lose your voice.  You've certainly provided zero evidence to suggest he'd be a better NFL coach than Pagano has been.  

I'm not a Saban fan and I would rather have Pagano as a coach over him any day of the week, but there is a huge hole in your logic.  You say that Saban has no examples of what he could bring to the Colts to prove he's better than Pagano.  Well a "cutting edge" OC or DC has no examples either.  And the retirement homes are full of great OC and DC that made horrible HCs.

 

Additionally, it's not really the HC's job to develop plays or schemes.  It's the HCs job to set the type of O and D he wants... power running, long ball, west coast, etc (you may consider those schemes so if you do, just ignore that part... to me a scheme is the responsibility of a position group, ie man coverage for the corners, zone for the safeties, zone blocking oline, to me a HC is more big picture, the smaller picture is for the Coordinators).  It's up to the HC to establish a position priority and player attribute priority.  It's up to the HC to look at the long picture of trends and changes in the NFL and plan accordingly.

 

Saban has a college HC with prolonged success has proven he can do that.  It's not a guarantee he can do it at the NFL level but he has proven he can do the duties of a HC.

[Superman]

Yelling at someone is not evidence of holding them responsible... it's only evidence that he is yelling at someone because he didn't do what the coach thought he should.

 

Where is this "seemingly no accountability" for poor play?  Players have been removed from the starting lineup for poor play, they have been released from their contracts for poor play, they've been released from the team for poor play.  How much more accountable can they make them?

 

They can scream at them on the sideline for everyone to see.

 

It's like people who have a bad customer service experience and think that entitles them to personally witness the employee be disciplined, or worse.

 

Mike Singletary is what they're looking for. And while that helped the Niners for a few weeks, eventually the fact that he wasn't a good football coach won out. Doesn't matter how many players you send to the locker room in the middle of the game, you actually have to be good at coaching football.

[Jackie Daytona]

Yelling at someone is not evidence of holding them responsible... it's only evidence that he is yelling at someone because he didn't do what the coach thought he should.

 

Where is this "seemingly no accountability" for poor play?  Players have been removed from the starting lineup for poor play, they have been released from their contracts for poor play, they've been released from the team for poor play.  How much more accountable can they make them?

maybe not accountability, but theres a reason Pagano seems soft...... he is not fiery, nor does he have to be....but him saying "Luck needs to play less like a LB'er" is so stunning coming from him, that it's a headline..... 

[JPFolks]

So your are one of the posters who just wants to claim a "win". But, I figured that out from you last silly post.

Frankly, I was hesitant to read your post because you wrote it. And then I read the first sentence and it confirmed my doubts.

Ah, so YOU post solely to hear your own voice and make proclamations, and once someone challenges you and remember, it was YOU who demanded more back-up to my claims, so you got what you asked for, it proved you wrong, as you challenged I do, and so you're the kid who takes his ball home when he loses the game.  So you confirmed my understanding that you can't back up your statements and run away when proven wrong, even though it was you who asked me to do so. 

[JPFolks]

I'm not a Saban fan and I would rather have Pagano as a coach over him any day of the week, but there is a huge hole in your logic.  You say that Saban has no examples of what he could bring to the Colts to prove he's better than Pagano.  Well a "cutting edge" OC or DC has no examples either.  And the retirement homes are full of great OC and DC that made horrible HCs.

 

Additionally, it's not really the HC's job to develop plays or schemes.  It's the HCs job to set the type of O and D he wants... power running, long ball, west coast, etc (you may consider those schemes so if you do, just ignore that part... to me a scheme is the responsibility of a position group, ie man coverage for the corners, zone for the safeties, zone blocking oline, to me a HC is more big picture, the smaller picture is for the Coordinators).  It's up to the HC to establish a position priority and player attribute priority.  It's up to the HC to look at the long picture of trends and changes in the NFL and plan accordingly.

 

Saban has a college HC with prolonged success has proven he can do that.  It's not a guarantee he can do it at the NFL level but he has proven he can do the duties of a HC.

Coffee, 

 

The problem is that we DO have direct evidence of Saban failing as a head coach in the NFL and it wasn't pretty.  So regardless of his college results, he failed as a head coach in the NFL already.  If an OC or DC failed in their job in the NFL, they wouldn't get a shot at a HC job.  Or, if they previously were head coaches and failed, we certainly wouldn't want to give them another shot (at least I hope we wouldn't).  Add to that the fact that his teams do not utilize great QB play as the root of their success.  But with Luck getting his new contract and us having to make some additional big contract decisions, it seems unlikely Saban can simply take his pick from the best talent in unbelievable numbers like he can at Alabama.  He has 3 deep in some positions that are better athletes at their position than many other teams have as starters.  He will not have that type of advantage in the NFL and will have to win with sub-par talent at some spots and very little depth.  Where is the evidence he can succeed in that way?  You say that the HC isn't responsible for the play of the players, if that is the case, then (as you agree above) Pagano shouldn't be going anywhere.   He's proven his overall team can and has won at a very good rate in the NFL since the start.  Why would we take someone who failed in that job over him?  It's completely illogical and Saban, of all candidates has far more going against him to be that person than for him.   If the fire Pagano and bring in someone who fails, we've truly wasted one of the great young QB talents in the NFL's history.  By the time another regime would come in for a 3rd reboot (since Pagano was a reboot his first year) Luck would be at the later stages of his peak window.  I am no Grigson fan, but I say allow Pagano and Grigs both stay if we still win the division (especially with H man at QB) and have a respectable postseason.   (Looking more and more likely that it will first be Pittsburgh followed by New England, the two teams who most humiliated us last year).  

[jszfunk]

I am not totally sold yet on college coaches transitioning to be a NFL HC.

[Gavin]

Coffee, 

 

The problem is that we DO have direct evidence of Saban failing as a head coach in the NFL and it wasn't pretty.  So regardless of his college results, he failed as a head coach in the NFL already.  If an OC or DC failed in their job in the NFL, they wouldn't get a shot at a HC job.  Or, if they previously were head coaches and failed, we certainly wouldn't want to give them another shot (at least I hope we wouldn't).  Add to that the fact that his teams do not utilize great QB play as the root of their success.  But with Luck getting his new contract and us having to make some additional big contract decisions, it seems unlikely Saban can simply take his pick from the best talent in unbelievable numbers like he can at Alabama.  He has 3 deep in some positions that are better athletes at their position than many other teams have as starters.  He will not have that type of advantage in the NFL and will have to win with sub-par talent at some spots and very little depth.  Where is the evidence he can succeed in that way?  You say that the HC isn't responsible for the play of the players, if that is the case, then (as you agree above) Pagano shouldn't be going anywhere.   He's proven his overall team can and has won at a very good rate in the NFL since the start.  Why would we take someone who failed in that job over him?  It's completely illogical and Saban, of all candidates has far more going against him to be that person than for him.   If the fire Pagano and bring in someone who fails, we've truly wasted one of the great young QB talents in the NFL's history.  By the time another regime would come in for a 3rd reboot (since Pagano was a reboot his first year) Luck would be at the later stages of his peak window.  I am no Grigson fan, but I say allow Pagano and Grigs both stay if we still win the division (especially with H man at QB) and have a respectable postseason.   (Looking more and more likely that it will first be Pittsburgh followed by New England, the two teams who most humiliated us last year).  

Wrong. Saban finished 9-7 his first year...Winning record with Gus Frerotte as his QB. The next year 2006 he finished bad at 6-10 with Joey Harrington.  Also its not uncommon for HC's to get fired somewhere only to find success elsewhere...Most notably:

 

Bill Belichick

Tom Coughlin

Mike Shanahan

Pete Carroll

 

Of course the exact opposite is true. That certaintly does not make him an unfit coach for the NFL though. Coaches can put players in the right position to execute plays but if players don't make plays then teams don't win games, Not the coaches fault. Also its a well known fact bad QB's are huge coach killers. Plenty of things that would make a HC unfit to be an NFL coach but record alone is not one of them

[Coffeedrinker]

Coffee, 

 

The problem is that we DO have direct evidence of Saban failing as a head coach in the NFL and it wasn't pretty.  So regardless of his college results, he failed as a head coach in the NFL already.  If an OC or DC failed in their job in the NFL, they wouldn't get a shot at a HC job.  Or, if they previously were head coaches and failed, we certainly wouldn't want to give them another shot (at least I hope we wouldn't).  Add to that the fact that his teams do not utilize great QB play as the root of their success.  But with Luck getting his new contract and us having to make some additional big contract decisions, it seems unlikely Saban can simply take his pick from the best talent in unbelievable numbers like he can at Alabama.  He has 3 deep in some positions that are better athletes at their position than many other teams have as starters.  He will not have that type of advantage in the NFL and will have to win with sub-par talent at some spots and very little depth.  Where is the evidence he can succeed in that way?  You say that the HC isn't responsible for the play of the players, if that is the case, then (as you agree above) Pagano shouldn't be going anywhere.   He's proven his overall team can and has won at a very good rate in the NFL since the start.  Why would we take someone who failed in that job over him?  It's completely illogical and Saban, of all candidates has far more going against him to be that person than for him.   If the fire Pagano and bring in someone who fails, we've truly wasted one of the great young QB talents in the NFL's history.  By the time another regime would come in for a 3rd reboot (since Pagano was a reboot his first year) Luck would be at the later stages of his peak window.  I am no Grigson fan, but I say allow Pagano and Grigs both stay if we still win the division (especially with H man at QB) and have a respectable postseason.   (Looking more and more likely that it will first be Pittsburgh followed by New England, the two teams who most humiliated us last year).  

Saban did not do well in his first stint in the NFL no doubt but that does not mean he can't or didn't improve.  

 

Like I stated I don't want the Colts to hire Saban but by your way of thinking Pete Carroll would not have had a chance to coach the Seahawks... Bill Belichick would not have had a chance to coach New England.  Heck even Tom landry failed as a HC in his first 5 seasons in Dallas.

 

Being a HC is like anything else, it is a craft that can be improved upon and honed with experience.  So to say he had his one chance 10 years ago and failed and therefore doesn't deserve another chance is rather narrow minded.

[JPFolks]

Wrong. Saban finished 9-7 his first year...Winning record with Gus Frerotte as his QB. The next year 2006 he finished bad at 6-10 with Joey Harrington.  Also its not uncommon for HC's to get fired somewhere only to find success elsewhere...Most notably:

 

Bill Belichick

Tom Coughlin

Mike Shanahan

Pete Carroll

 

Of course the exact opposite is true. That certaintly does not make him an unfit coach for the NFL though. Coaches can put players in the right position to execute plays but if players don't make plays then teams don't win games, Not the coaches fault. Also its a well known fact bad QB's are huge coach killers. Plenty of things that would make a HC unfit to be an NFL coach but record alone is not one of them

Compare the demonstrated NFL success of Pagano  versus that of Saban.  People are suggesting (not all, but certainly anyone calling for Saban) that Pagano isn't good enough.  So on what basis is Saban more qualified? College success does not equate to NFL, especially when you have specific evidence of that person in the NFL.   I am simply asking where this Pro Saban over Pagano outcry is justified... I find no evidence of it.  

[JPFolks]

Saban did not do well in his first stint in the NFL no doubt but that does not mean he can't or didn't improve.  

 

Like I stated I don't want the Colts to hire Saban but by your way of thinking Pete Carroll would not have had a chance to coach the Seahawks... Bill Belichick would not have had a chance to coach New England.  Heck even Tom landry failed as a HC in his first 5 seasons in Dallas.

 

Being a HC is like anything else, it is a craft that can be improved upon and honed with experience.  So to say he had his one chance 10 years ago and failed and therefore doesn't deserve another chance is rather narrow minded.

You're missing the key point to this.  I posited from the start that I think Pagano should stay, as have you.  But how were the Seahawks doing when they hired Carroll?  If the Colts had 4 losing seasons under Pagano, then you can make an argument for someone else with proof that the current coach isn't as good.  That isn't the case. I bet Pagano is in the top echelon of coaching success in his first 3.5 years.  So hire Saban to be the coach of a perennial loser, not the Colts.   

[Gavin]

Compare the demonstrated NFL success of Pagano  versus that of Saban.  People are suggesting (not all, but certainly anyone calling for Saban) that Pagano isn't good enough.  So on what basis is Saban more qualified? College success does not equate to NFL, especially when you have specific evidence of that person in the NFL.   I am simply asking where this Pro Saban over Pagano outcry is justified... I find no evidence of it.  

What I am saying is that in football if your team (Sabans Dolphins at the time) don't have a QB the chances are slim to none that said coach (Again Saban) will come out a winner. Im with you on not advocating for him. Im not. I don't know enough to give my thumbs up on it or not but I do know Im not going to judge Sabans ability to coach at the NFL level based on a couple bum QB's and lack of talent on the offensive side of the ball after 2 years

[hoosierhawk]

Boy JPF, it's apparent you had a real woody for Saban. For starters you say that you want Chuck to stay but I think you need to realize no matter how much you or I want him to stay that there is less than a 10% chance he stays. People here are merely speculating on who the new coach my be. Personally I think Saban would be as good a candidate as anyone if we will be looking for a new coach. Some on here rebutted you argument about his prior tenure in the NFL quite convincing.

My question to you, and you may have already answered this, if Chuck goes who do you want to replace him and why are his credentials better than Sabans'?

[Coffeedrinker]

You're missing the key point to this.  I posited from the start that I think Pagano should stay, as have you.  But how were the Seahawks doing when they hired Carroll?  If the Colts had 4 losing seasons under Pagano, then you can make an argument for someone else with proof that the current coach isn't as good.  That isn't the case. I bet Pagano is in the top echelon of coaching success in his first 3.5 years.  So hire Saban to be the coach of a perennial loser, not the Colts.   

Yes, you and I both agree it would be a bad idea to fire Pagano and hire Saban.

 

My only point was your explanations for not wanting Saban are flawed.  The fact that he did not do well in Miami really has no bearing on if he would do well with the Colts.  that fact that he's not an innovative OC or DC with an upward trajectory to being a head coach has no bearing on if he would do well with the Colts.  I think he's probably learned a thing or two about being a head coach in the last 10 years and probably even how to transfer those skills to the NFL.  

 

But I don't want him because I don't want Luck's second coach to be another inexperienced HC.  If and to me that is still an IF, the Colts get rid of Pagano I would hope they would bring in someone with more NFL head coaching experience.  It was bad enough giving Luck a rookie HC and a rookie GM.  They don't need to repeat that mistake.

[BOTT]

Ah, so YOU post solely to hear your own voice and make proclamations, and once someone challenges you and remember, it was YOU who demanded more back-up to my claims, so you got what you asked for, it proved you wrong, as you challenged I do, and so you're the kid who takes his ball home when he loses the game.  So you confirmed my understanding that you can't back up your statements and run away when proven wrong, even though it was you who asked me to do so.

You just wrote nonsense and declared yourself correct. But congrats.

[JPFolks]

Boy JPF, it's apparent you had a real woody for Saban. For starters you say that you want Chuck to stay but I think you need to realize no matter how much you or I want him to stay that there is less than a 10% chance he stays. People here are merely speculating on who the new coach my be. Personally I think Saban would be as good a candidate as anyone if we will be looking for a new coach. Some on here rebutted you argument about his prior tenure in the NFL quite convincing.

My question to you, and you may have already answered this, if Chuck goes who do you want to replace him and why are his credentials better than Sabans'?

A Woody for Saban? Hardly... just the opposite. He's too old.  He'll want too much control.  He's too accustomed to the luxuries that Alabama offers in terms of raw materials to build his teams.  He won't get a fraction of that equivalent talent pool in the NFL.

 

As for who I would want to replace a guy who has coached a team to 37-20 record during the regular season, plus 3 playoff game wins in 3.5 years incl. an AFC Championship appearance last year, there likely aren't many solid options.  I would prefer someone who had a long run of successful OC or DC experience, perhaps someone who played the game would be a plus.  If they had previously been a head coach, I would hope they had a winning record and playoff appearances.  Many of the attractive candidates have recently been hired by other teams (John Fox for example) so I am not sure who would be available who could even come close to Pagano's success.  Frankly, if we fire Pagano, he'll likely have his choice of teams to coach if he goes back on his statement that this is his last job in football.   I wouldn't be shocked for Miami to hire him with his long connections to Miami U and deep ties to that community.   The only college coaches I would be interested in would be would be either John Harbaugh or David Shaw.  Harbaugh would be perfect, but I doubt he's leaving Michigan.  Shaw has a long history of success as an offensive mind for winning programs in Oakland and Baltimore, both of whom had success when he was on their staffs.  He's been a solid coach at Stanford,winning in a game that rarely find success when the bar for intelligence of their players is so high.  He has to deal with REAL students who can actually get in and survive at Stanford.  No small task.  Unlike Saban, he must take only those athletes who have both talent and brains and work ethic to survive at Stanford. He has taken a program that was one run by Bill Walsh (and his father worked I believe with Walsh on the staff and Shaw played 4 years at Stanford, not NFL experience playing, but the next closest thing).   He's 43 years old, a natural match for Andrew Luck and likely had more to do with the play calling at Stanford than perhaps Pep had.  He worked on staff with Harbaugh and let's face it, Harbaugh can coach his butt off so he's from that tree.  

 

I think those are the two best candidates we could hope for as HC.  That said, I still see no justifiable reason to fire Pagano.  I do, however, see plenty of reasons to fire Grigson which I believe would solve much of our problems.   

[JPFolks]

Yes, you and I both agree it would be a bad idea to fire Pagano and hire Saban.

 

My only point was your explanations for not wanting Saban are flawed.  The fact that he did not do well in Miami really has no bearing on if he would do well with the Colts.  that fact that he's not an innovative OC or DC with an upward trajectory to being a head coach has no bearing on if he would do well with the Colts.  I think he's probably learned a thing or two about being a head coach in the last 10 years and probably even how to transfer those skills to the NFL.  

 

But I don't want him because I don't want Luck's second coach to be another inexperienced HC.  If and to me that is still an IF, the Colts get rid of Pagano I would hope they would bring in someone with more NFL head coaching experience.  It was bad enough giving Luck a rookie HC and a rookie GM.  They don't need to repeat that mistake.

Sorry, but if you can't look at someone's ACTUAL experience as a head coach in the NFL to inform you how he may operate the next time, then what are you supposed to look at?  So if Harbaugh was available, we shouldn't consider his success in SF or at Stanford right?  The logic is flawed. 

[BOTT]

Sorry, but if you can't look at someone's ACTUAL experience as a head coach in the NFL to inform you how he may operate the next time, then what are you supposed to look at?  So if Harbaugh was available, we shouldn't consider his success in SF or at Stanford right?  The logic is flawed.

by your logic you just passed on Belichick, Pete Carroll, and Mike Shanahan. That's 7 super bowl rings. There is far more to look at than a won loss record....especially when it's a small sample size.

[Coffeedrinker]

Sorry, but if you can't look at someone's ACTUAL experience as a head coach in the NFL to inform you how he may operate the next time, then what are you supposed to look at?  So if Harbaugh was available, we shouldn't consider his success in SF or at Stanford right?  The logic is flawed. 

That is why your logic is flawed.  you want to look at actual experience but then say to look at an OC or DC.  They have no actual HC experience so how can you look at that?

 

Also, your logic is flawed but all you want to look at is a small portion of a resume adn you stated with Harbuagh... you would look at his success in SF and Stanford but for Saban you only want to look at his lack of success in the NFL and not is success in college.

 

On the flip side, I never said don't look at his Miami experience, only that his experience 10 years ago on his first try should not be the sole determining factor in whether or not he should get another shot in the NFL.

[Gavin]

Long story short...Any knowledgeable football fan should know that GM's and Owners look at MUCH more then a potential HC candidates previous win/loss record and even then they have to look at circumstances surrounding that win/loss record when they actually do look at the record.

 

Case in point: Todd Bowles and the Jets while they have been sliding recently they started out well. A big reason is that defense BUT they have had better QB play from Fitzpatrick then they have had with Smith. That defense has been good for a while now obviously but the Jets were not winning despite that and the biggest reason why was (and may turn out to be this year unless Fitzpatrick gets that thumb issue worked out) bad QB play. Heck Im no Rex Ryan fan but Geno Smith is the poster boy for why (though he is not the only QB) Rex is a HC elsewhere

[JPFolks]

by your logic you just passed on Belichick, Pete Carroll, and Mike Shanahan. That's 7 super bowl rings. There is far more to look at than a won loss record....especially when it's a small sample size.

Who's to say that Pagano isn't going to be right in there with them if he stays on? His current performance certainly does.  And as far as I am aware (correct me if I am wrong) all those coaches took over horrible, moribund franchises.   You can take a flier in those cases.  You could also surmise that in the history of the league, people have chosen coaches far more often who failed a second time and the franchise remained in the tank ( I am really sick or I would research it a bit, but I think I am right).   Ownership of those 3 teams ALSO played a hand (plus, let's be real, Shanahan failed miserably in Washington which cancels out his resurgence for the sake of this discussion and supports the concept that ownership plays a role).  Based on history it is more likely that any given coach being rehired will fail over a few exceptions to the rule.  Belichick has cheated his way to wins since the start.   Pete Carroll wasn't an overnight success either.  Can he sustain it, we'll see as they are barely better than the Colts now and Pagano's team beat Seattle in the one shot he had against them.  

[lollygagger8]

[Gavin]

Who's to say that Pagano isn't going to be right in there with them if he stays on? His current performance certainly does.  And as far as I am aware (correct me if I am wrong) all those coaches took over horrible, moribund franchises.   You can take a flier in those cases.  You could also surmise that in the history of the league, people have chosen coaches far more often who failed a second time and the franchise remained in the tank ( I am really sick or I would research it a bit, but I think I am right).   Ownership of those 3 teams ALSO played a hand (plus, let's be real, Shanahan failed miserably in Washington which cancels out his resurgence for the sake of this discussion and supports the concept that ownership plays a role).  Based on history it is more likely that any given coach being rehired will fail over a few exceptions to the rule.  Belichick has cheated his way to wins since the start.   Pete Carroll wasn't an overnight success either.  Can he sustain it, we'll see as they are barely better than the Colts now and Pagano's team beat Seattle in the one shot he had against them.  

And your leaving out Seattles 2 SB appearances