New Spygate Otl Report.

[amfootball]

I do wonder if this story is a primer for Goodell's inevitable take down. He said on Mike and Mike that he is fine with getting out of the discipline process but I wonder if a bigger stripping of his power is coming ...

[dynasty13]

And why is that? I suppose it was out of the goodness of his heart? I guess his personal friendship with Kraft played no part in his wanting to minimize the Patriots involvement?

 

Discipline was in Goodell's hands, not Robert Krafts. Regardless of their relationship, the perceived leniency was on Goodell, not Kraft or the Patriots. What...you think Kraft was supposed to hear the punishment but come back and say "Hey Rog...we'd really like for you to take more picks away from us".

 

Like, seriously?

 

You tried to make the case that people hate the Patriots because Kraft covered up spygate...and that is just simply inaccurate and very disingenuous. 

[bababooey]

I do wonder if this story is a primer for Goodell's inevitable take down. He said on Mike and Mike that he is fine with getting out of the discipline process but I wonder if a bigger stripping of his power is coming ...

 

Who cares? He is put in all of these bad positions because people can't stop cheating, beating their wives/kids. He will gladly step away from punishment as long as he is getting paid like crazy to grow the bottom line. Ironically this whole spectacle is what is building interest and increases ratings.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[amfootball]

Wow. Looks like NFL changed Martz statement after the spygate saga to quell Senator Specter and the potential for a congressional hearing, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/mike-martz-was-shocked-by-apparent-changes-to-statement-he-gave-to-the-nfl/

 

 

Things are about to get very interesting for the NFL ... very.

[csmopar]

How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady and dishonest?

 

Hell, that's sort of been his M.O., no?

                   

 

 

I'm sure I could find more but really?! "How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady and dishonest"??!  Are you serious right now..... I'd think you were joking but I know you aren't.  You have just destroyed any and all credibility you had with that one statement. Wow. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[crazycolt1]

Discipline was in Goodell's hands, not Robert Krafts. Regardless of their relationship, the perceived leniency was on Goodell, not Kraft or the Patriots. What...you think Kraft was supposed to hear the punishment but come back and say "Hey Rog...we'd really like for you to take more picks away from us".

 

Like, seriously?

 

You tried to make the case that people hate the Patriots because Kraft covered up spygate...and that is just simply inaccurate and very disingenuous. 

I didn't make it sound anything. Spygate was not covered up. Just it seems the whole truth was covered up to the extent of the Patriots involvement. Most Patriot fans feel other fans hate them because of their winning ways. That is false. Most fans feel those wins did not come by a team that is honest and has integrity. My comment was that Kraft's and Goodell's employer-employee friendship did have something to do with a partial cover up. Patriots took the fines and the loss of a draft pick and fessed up to a partial or incomplete investigation. It was a plea bargain that was agreed to by Kraft and Goodell to cover up the whole truth. Now the mice are coming out of the woodwork telling the whole truth. Could that be the reason Kraft was so upset when he put it in Goodells hands and didn't get a break like last time? Only time will tell/

[Yehoodi]

So it makes what the Patriots did then and 7 years later OK by you?

 

What the patriots did 7 years ago was tape defensive signals from the sidelines and did not use the information in the game in which they were taped, something BB thought was not against the rules, the NFL thought otherwise, he was punished and we moved on.

 

What happen with Deflategate sits on a different footing for me.  We have no direct evidence that balls were deflated by anyone on the pats sidelines.  All we have are the recordings of the ball pressure and opinion based on circumstantial evidence.   For me Deflategate is straightforward for me.  When one lines up the same gauge used by each of the three refs, that colts balls started at 13.0 psig and Pats at 12.5, the fact that the pats balls were tested first at half time and colts balls near the end of halftime as they refs ran out of time, look at the test run by Exponent simulating the ball pressure change as they sat at halftime (Figure 22), you will find, if the colts balls are used as an innocent control group, that the colts balls make at least 8 of the 11 pats balls innocent.    Putting it another way, the colts balls were also below what one would attribute solely to temperature, an indication to me that either the colts doctored the balls, which I doubt, but that there are non human factors that effect the pressure in a ball during the playing of a game.   

 

Bottom line with this article, the haters wanted to see Brady suspended, but like Jay Feely, we was not, and some folks can not handle this point.

[bababooey]

Wow. Looks like NFL changed Martz statement after the spygate saga to quell Senator Specter and the potential for a congressional hearing, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/mike-martz-was-shocked-by-apparent-changes-to-statement-he-gave-to-the-nfl/

 

 

Things are about to get very interesting for the NFL ... very.

I said this in #51. Would love to see a congressional investigation and everyone under oath from Brady to Goodell to Kraft to BB to McNally and Jastremski. Get me a first row seat.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[jvan1973]

Wow. Looks like NFL changed Martz statement after the spygate saga to quell Senator Specter and the potential for a congressional hearing, http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/09/08/mike-martz-was-shocked-by-apparent-changes-to-statement-he-gave-to-the-nfl/

Things are about to get very interesting for the NFL ... very.

Too bad Bill couldn't just follow the rules. None of this would be an issue

[bababooey]

What the patriots did 7 years ago was tape defensive signals from the sidelines and did not use the information in the game in which they were taped, something BB thought was not against the rules, the NFL thought otherwise, he was punished and we moved on.

 

What happen with Deflategate sits on a different footing for me.  We have no direct evidence that balls were deflated by anyone on the pats sidelines.  All we have are the recordings of the ball pressure and opinion based on circumstantial evidence.   For me Deflategate is straightforward for me.  When one lines up the same gauge used by each of the three refs, that colts balls started at 13.0 psig and Pats at 12.5, the fact that the pats balls were tested first at half time and colts balls near the end of halftime as they refs ran out of time, look at the test run by Exponent simulating the ball pressure change as they sat at halftime (Figure 22), you will find, if the colts balls are used as an innocent control group, that the colts balls make at least 8 of the 11 pats balls innocent.    Putting it another way, the colts balls were also below what one would attribute solely to temperature, an indication to me that either the colts doctored the balls, which I doubt, but that there are non human factors that effect the pressure in a ball during the playing of a game.   

 

Bottom line with this article, the haters wanted to see Brady suspended, but like Jay Feely, we was not, and some folks can not handle this point.

We don't have evidence because the two bozos didn't say anything since being found out as The Deflator. We don't have evidence because Brady destroyed his phone.

 

Didn't bother to read the rest. Go back to Barstool.

Edited September 8, 2015 by bababooey

[bababooey]

Remember everyone; Asking questions pro-Pats is ok but asking anything against them is HATING.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[BloodyChamp]

So it wasn't even really Goodel who had it in for the Patriots...

[oldunclemark]

Its intersting that ESPN held this report until AFTER the judge ruled on Brady vs. the NFL

[crazycolt1]

What the patriots did 7 years ago was tape defensive signals from the sidelines and did not use the information in the game in which they were taped, something BB thought was not against the rules, the NFL thought otherwise, he was punished and we moved on.

 

What happen with Deflategate sits on a different footing for me.  We have no direct evidence that balls were deflated by anyone on the pats sidelines.  All we have are the recordings of the ball pressure and opinion based on circumstantial evidence.   For me Deflategate is straightforward for me.  When one lines up the same gauge used by each of the three refs, that colts balls started at 13.0 psig and Pats at 12.5, the fact that the pats balls were tested first at half time and colts balls near the end of halftime as they refs ran out of time, look at the test run by Exponent simulating the ball pressure change as they sat at halftime (Figure 22), you will find, if the colts balls are used as an innocent control group, that the colts balls make at least 8 of the 11 pats balls innocent.    Putting it another way, the colts balls were also below what one would attribute solely to temperature, an indication to me that either the colts doctored the balls, which I doubt, but that there are non human factors that effect the pressure in a ball during the playing of a game.   

 

Bottom line with this article, the haters wanted to see Brady suspended, but like Jay Feely, we was not, and some folks can not handle this point.

If it boils down to that you would be correct. But it don't. Getting punished for a plea bargain is not facing the music.

[Nadine]

FYI, you should use the report button rather than posting a message to moderators in the thread

[dynasty13]

                   

 

 

I'm sure I could find more but really?! "How is it the Patriots fault for Goodell being shady and dishonest"??!  Are you serious right now..... I'd think you were joking but I know you aren't.  You have just destroyed any and all credibility you had with that one statement.

 

I'm not sure you've been following the dialogue here...because your not understand the context of my comment.

[bababooey]

Its intersting that ESPN held this report until AFTER the judge ruled on Brady vs. the NFL

Well they had 8 months or so since. Most likely started over the summer or maybe spring and waited for the time between the ruling and kickoff. Pats fans wanted deflate gate to go away, well spygate is back 7 years later. Holy cow.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[crazycolt1]

Too bad Bill couldn't just follow the rules. None of this would be an issue

That makes too much sense.

[dynasty13]

I didn't make it sound anything. Spygate was not covered up. Just it seems the whole truth was covered up to the extent of the Patriots involvement. Most Patriot fans feel other fans hate them because of their winning ways. That is false. Most fans feel those wins did not come by a team that is honest and has integrity. My comment was that Kraft's and Goodell's employer-employee friendship did have something to do with a partial cover up. Patriots took the fines and the loss of a draft pick and fessed up to a partial or incomplete investigation. It was a plea bargain that was agreed to by Kraft and Goodell to cover up the whole truth. Now the mice are coming out of the woodwork telling the whole truth. Could that be the reason Kraft was so upset when he put it in Goodells hands and didn't get a break like last time? Only time will tell/

 

Not only did you make it sound as I described, but you literally wrote it as I described:

 

ESPN did not just re-summarize. They just told more of spygate that had been covered up by Goodell and Kraft at the time. Sooner or later the whole truth will be known. This is the type of crap that causes people to hate the Patriots. You make your bed, now lay in it.

 

You're making it sound like Kraft was part of this grand Spygate cover up and he destroyed the tapes himself and that is why people hate the Patriots. I called out that point as not credible and asked how it was the Patriots fault for Goodell himself destroying evidence and covering this up. It all goes back to Goodell...and if there's one thing that this article brought to the front it's the inability to trust him at all going forward.

[pgt_rob]

Apples and oranges

 

Eh... I wouldn't go that far. Maybe apples and oranges meaning NFL vs NBA... Donald Sterling got a very severe punishment that in NFL wouldn't have happened.

[amfootball]

Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 2h2 hours ago @SigmundBloom @PatDStat Alert the media: Opposing teams think the Patriots cheat. /yawn. //Some details are new, esp Goodell's handling


 

[Superman]

We like to say that those who knew the least about Spygate were always the biggest to complain about it or bring it up incessantly. If new details are released that's one thing, but some of the things people would claim about it while trying to make their case against the Patriots were just dead wrong...and those are the posts we responded to.

 

We claimed it wasn't a big deal because the result of stealing signals was no different than what other teams were getting as well...it was simply the method by which they tried to obtain the information that was illegal. And they received the harshest penalty in the history of the league for it...admitted to it...and then moved on. It's the misinformation that gets us...nobody has a problem talking about a topic as long as it isn't based on nonsense.

 

What I got from the article is that Spygate was a bigger deal than people let on, specifically Goodell and those he influenced (like Mike Martz). That the owners felt like a lot of Spygate was swept under the rug; they handled Spygate in four days, and said that there was nothing other than the destroyed tapes, but more material came to light later. That it wasn't just taping signals, but that the rule breaking went further than that. And that, after the fact, Goodell felt like he had let down the other owners in the league, and was going to take a hard line on issues like this in the future. Which leads us to the 'harsh' Deflategate ruling.

 

A lot of this is shrug-worthy. Martz, for instance, says he agreed to release a statement because he thought it was what was best for the league. Then he claims that the league added certain comments to his written statement after the fact. That's not necessarily hard to believe, but that's a flimsy claim, 8 years later. There's also the claim that Belichick's 'there wasn't a big advantage to it' stance is bogus, which many have questioned all along.

 

Since 2007, there's been a prevailing opinion that the Patriots organization doesn't respect the rules, to put it lightly. This report reinforces that opinion. Like you said, it's definitely not changing any minds, on either side.

[jvan1973]

Stephanie Stradley ‏@StephStradley 2h2 hours ago @SigmundBloom @PatDStat Alert the media: Opposing teams think the Patriots cheat. /yawn. //Some details are new, esp Goodell's handling

Especially the fact that bb lied about knowing what he was doing was against the rules

[csmopar]

I'm not sure you've been following the dialogue here...because your not understand the context of my comment.

No, I read your reply, granted, it was after i posted that. However, my point is still the same...

 

How can you or any Patriot or patriot fan call Goodell shady and dishonest when that entire organziation, from the owner, down to their ball boys are dishonest and shady?  That is truly the pot meet kettle situation.

[bababooey]

The Pats gave videographers cover stories and put false logos/tape on their jackets bc they misinterpreted the rules and thought taping was legal.

Edited September 8, 2015 by bababooey

[21isSuperman]

Eh... I wouldn't go that far. Maybe apples and oranges meaning NFL vs NBA... Donald Sterling got a very severe punishment that in NFL wouldn't have happened.

One is cheating and about the integrity of the game, the other is a racial discrimination.  I don't think you can compare the two

[crazycolt1]

 

Not only did you make it sound as I described, but you literally wrote it as I described:

 

 

 

You're making it sound like Kraft was part of this grand Spygate cover up and he destroyed the tapes himself and that is why people hate the Patriots. I called out that point as not credible and asked how it was the Patriots fault for Goodell himself destroying evidence and covering this up. It all goes back to Goodell...and if there's one thing that this article brought to the front it's the inability to trust him at all going forward.

 

So in your mind Kraft putting this in Goodells hands was because of what? You can put your own spin and meanings to my comments all you care to but that don't make them so.

[chad72]

What Goodell is doing on Deflategate to appease owners because he did not do the job right on Spygate. 

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[bababooey]

One is cheating and about the integrity of the game, the other is a racial discrimination.  I don't think you can compare the two

If it happened in the NFL, Goodell would suspend the owner a few weeks and/or fine them but would not ban them for life and make them sell the team. We have cheating, multiple instances, that touch the game, that possibly/probably touched the championship games (multiple). And they are buddy-buddy until this year. IMO while Sterling is absolutely disgusting and was set up, he did not even sniff anything that had to do with the game, but we have multiple cheating instances in multiple super bowls, AFC championship games, and regular season games and nothing happens, no investigation can even be conducted correctly because of the lack of independence and lack of protocol in place.

Edited September 8, 2015 by bababooey

[amfootball]

What Goodell is doing on Deflategate to appease owners because he did not do the job right on Spygate. 

Yes just underscores not only the incompetence of Goodell but just how vindictive the owners are. This is the most damning story to come out on the NFL yet and confirms everything we thought about deflategate from start to finish ... it is stunning.

[dynasty13]

No, I read your reply, granted, it was after i posted that. However, my point is still the same...

 

How can you or any Patriot or patriot fan call Goodell shady and dishonest when that entire organziation, from the owner, down to their ball boys are dishonest and shady?  That is truly the pot meet kettle situation.

 

Because as I said...in the context of what we were talking about, Goodell was the one who 'swept it under the rug' and covered it up...and CrazyColt made the claim that people hated the Patriots because of Kraft's role in covering it up. I called nonsense and said how can people hate the Patriots for something Goodell did?

 

That's all I was saying...hate the team and their fans for whatever you want and there's plenty of reasons to find...just don't let Goodell's handling of it be one of them...that was all on him.

[chad72]

Yes just underscores not only the incompetence of Goodell but just how vindictive the owners are. This is the most damning story to come out on the NFL yet and confirms everything we thought about deflategate from start to finish ... it is stunning.

 

Yep. But it does shed a different light on Spygate that it was bigger than what it was shown, and was much larger in magnitude than Deflategate. To be honest, Goodell excusing himself from being judge, jury and executioner is the only way out and that only softens it a bit.

 

Still, for 31 other teams that had gripes with the Patriots, Goodell comes off in a "selling his soul to the devil and reaping for it when he tries to step on the devil 10 years later" kind of fashion. That devil continues to be the Patriots. 

[pgt_rob]

One is cheating and about the integrity of the game, the other is a racial discrimination.  I don't think you can compare the two

 

I don't think it deserves a ban for life and to give up his team. That is just over the top in my opinion. There's been issues with it before with players and they aren't kicked out. (Riley Cooper)

[21isSuperman]

If it happened in the NFL, Goodell would suspend the owner a few weeks and/or fine them but would not ban them for life and make them sell the team. We have cheating, multiple instances, that touch the game, that possibly/probably touched the championship games (multiple). And they are buddy-buddy until this year. IMO while Sterling is absolutely disgusting and was set up, he did not even sniff anything that had to do with the game.

I think it's too difficult and different to compare.  It's hard to say how Goodell would react to something like that.  Plus, if I understood the Sterling situation correctly, Adam Silver didn't make the decision unilaterally. 

[dynasty13]

So in your mind Kraft putting this in Goodells hands was because of what? You can put your own spin and meanings to my comments all you care to but that don't make them so.

 

I don't even understand what you are saying here.

 

You literally posted that Goodell and Kraft both covered up Spygate and that's why people hated the Patriots. I don't even have to spin it...it's there in writing. You said it.

 

I responded and said Kraft didn't cover it up that is all on Goodell, and then you come back with some weird friendship post like that shoul dbe the Patriots fault and they should have asked for harsher disciplineI just don't get what you are trying to say. Kraft accepted the punishment, expressed his displeasure with the whole situation and his head coach, and then moved on. I don't quite see what is so despicable about the way he handled that or what else he was supposed to do.

[crazycolt1]

Because as I said...in the context of what we were talking about, Goodell was the one who 'swept it under the rug' and covered it up...and CrazyColt made the claim that people hated the Patriots because of Kraft's role in covering it up. I called nonsense and said how can people hate the Patriots for something Goodell did?

 

That's all I was saying...hate the team and their fans for whatever you want and there's plenty of reasons to find...just don't let Goodell's handling of it be one of them...that was all on him.

For one thing I did not say that people hated the Patriots because of Kraft's role at all. re -read my comments and use comprehension, not your spin. People dislike the Patriots wins because of the distrust on how those wins happened. Integrity and sportsmanship are not in the Patriots vocabulary.

[bababooey]

I don't think it deserves a ban for life and to give up his team. That is just over the top in my opinion. There's been issues with it before with players and they aren't kicked out. (Riley Cooper)

 

Considering Cooper was drunk in public at a concert, and Sterling was talking to his girlfriend in private. Silver set the tone correct, something that Goodell didn't do when he first showed up to the job and found out 3 of the last four SB winner was a total cheat.

Edited September 8, 2015 by 21isSuperman

[csmopar]

Yes just underscores not only the incompetence of Goodell but just how vindictive the owners are. This is the most damning story to come out on the NFL yet and confirms everything we thought about deflategate from start to finish ... it is stunning.

 While for once I will agree, the League, especially Goodell bungled this whole situation, the Patriots hold ultimate responsibility for this whole dang thing.  If they could, for once, follow the dang rules and not lie/cheat to win, we wouldnt even be having this conversation or the countless others.  So yeah, we can blame the league for their missteps during this but you are holding that the Patriots should be blameless?  

Edited September 8, 2015 by Superman

[crazycolt1]

Yes just underscores not only the incompetence of Goodell but just how vindictive the owners are. This is the most damning story to come out on the NFL yet and confirms everything we thought about deflategate from start to finish ... it is stunning.

Not quite a stunning as the Patriots pleading guilty to a lesser crime with a plea bargain. Make no mistake. That is what happened.

[dynasty13]

For one thing I did not say that people hated the Patriots because of Kraft's role at all. re -read my comments and use comprehension, not your spin. People dislike the Patriots wins because of the distrust on how those wins happened. Integrity and sportsmanship are not in the Patriots vocabulary.

 

You can lead a horse to water but that don't make them drink. I did not say that is why people hate the Patriots. That is your spin.

 

I'm going to try this again...here is what you posted:

 

ESPN did not just re-summarize. They just told more of spygate that had been covered up by Goodell and Kraft at the time. Sooner or later the whole truth will be known. This is the type of crap that causes people to hate the Patriots. You make your bed, now lay in it.

 

Without 'spin'...let me retype it: "They (the article) just told more of spygate that had been covered up by Goodell and Kraft at the time. Sooner or later the whole truth will be known. This is the type of crap that causes people to hate the Patriots. You make your bed, now lay in it."

 

Are you really going to try to tell me again that 1) you did not say that Kraft covered this up, and 2) that you didn't claim that is why people hate the Patriots???