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Battle For The Starting Nt Is Down To 3...


weslo1812

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I call Parry as starter, yet Hughes AND Chapman will be in the DL rotation...and Kerr can disrupt from any DT position.

 

The real need is for Arthur Jones AND The nose tackle to demand double teams.  Pendleton and Quarles bring motors as well as DTs.

Do these guys have a shot of making the 53 man cut and are they                ^                 ^

doing better than last year's D linemen?                             

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As of now I'd rank them:

Kerr > Chapman >>>> parry

I wouldn't be entirely surprised if parry winds up on the PS

Ummm NO!!!! If Parry is competing for the starting spot like he is.... he's not gonna end up on the PS. And he's already making more plays as a rookie then Chapman has ever made. Chapman is going on his 4th year now... Perry is a rook and he's showing alot more potential. I believe this could be Chapman's last year here. He's not cutting it so far... at all!!

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Do these guys have a shot of making the 53 man cut and are they                ^                 ^

doing better than last year's D linemen?                             

This is a great question.  We still have two preseason games left to show where each are at, and as always the possibility of injuries.

 

Pendleton and Quarles bring the same motor to the DL as Kerr.  It just seems to me it will be a numbers situation and how many we keep.  JP and Quarles could still go to the practice squad.

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Ummm NO!!!! If Parry is competing for the starting spot like he is.... he's not gonna end up on the PS. And he's already making more plays as a rookie then Chapman has ever made. Chapman is going on his 4th year now... Perry is a rook and he's showing alot more potential. I believe this could be Chapman's last year here. He's not cutting it so far... at all!!

 

"Parry competing for a starting spot" could be nothing more than coach-speak.  Just like at the stat of halftime in the game vs. the Bears...a reporter stopped Pagano to ask him a few questions, one of which was asking him how Parry played.  Pagano said "I thought he played well".  If I thought Pagano actually believed that then I'd join the "Fire Pagano" brigade. 

 

Parry has made a couple of plays, I'll give you that, but it's not been by doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  The NT in this defense needs to be able to take on blockers, preferably 2 of them, to keep the LBs clean.  Chapman does that.  Parry did not.  The only times I saw Parry coming close to "making a play" was when he split defenders, not by taking on blockers and pushing them around.  Parry got pushed around against the Bears FAR more than Chapman did.

 

Now if the Colts are going to run more 1-gap than 2, then right now Parry would be the better option over Chapman.  I'd still put Kerr in over both though. As an internal pass rusher, Parry would be better than Chapman...but against the run, Chapman is currently far superior to Parry imo.

 

Bottom line...I don't believe for a second that, RIGHT NOW, Parry is legitimately competing for a starting spot. 

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Parry or Kerr IMO. Lets hope one of those 2 really breaks out and gives us a stud in the middle. I think Kerr may end up as the starter honestly. But if one of those guys breaks out our defense will be looking good. Chapman is just Chapman. He's not a bad NT but he's nothing special. He's maybe average. We need a star in the middle. Like a Damon Harrison or Dontari Poe type.

Parry is phyiscally not ready. So I guess Kerr.

""

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I'm not that familiar with the position in general but one negative I've heard about Parry was that he's undersized. Maybe he just has substantial power and a low center of gravity w a great motor, I don't know.

Has their been any solid starting NTs that have been undersized over the years? Does he legitimately have the ability to draw double teams and could he also be powerful and skilled enough to take on the leagues best offensive linemen?

Not yet but give him a few years to bulk up.
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"Parry competing for a starting spot" could be nothing more than coach-speak.  Just like at the stat of halftime in the game vs. the Bears...a reporter stopped Pagano to ask him a few questions, one of which was asking him how Parry played.  Pagano said "I thought he played well".  If I thought Pagano actually believed that then I'd join the "Fire Pagano" brigade. 

 

Parry has made a couple of plays, I'll give you that, but it's not been by doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  The NT in this defense needs to be able to take on blockers, preferably 2 of them, to keep the LBs clean.  Chapman does that.  Parry did not.  The only times I saw Parry coming close to "making a play" was when he split defenders, not by taking on blockers and pushing them around.  Parry got pushed around against the Bears FAR more than Chapman did.

 

Now if the Colts are going to run more 1-gap than 2, then right now Parry would be the better option over Chapman.  I'd still put Kerr in over both though. As an internal pass rusher, Parry would be better than Chapman...but against the run, Chapman is currently far superior to Parry imo.

 

Bottom line...I don't believe for a second that, RIGHT NOW, Parry is legitimately competing for a starting spot. 

 

I dunno that I'll ever get this logic.  Yes, by definition a NT in a 3-4 is typically supposed to clog up the middle and take up two blockers.  However, if he instead penetrates and makes a play on his own... he's not doing his job?

 

Sorry, but lets say a guy like Parry consistently splits two linemen and eventually they're forced to keep him from doing that, he's then occupied two blockers.  I can't say that I'd find it 'ideal' that he simply always occupies two blockers by brute force.  If it happens to be due to penetration instead of just force, he's still getting into the backfield and disrupting a play, or forcing a line to adjust.

 

Best I can remember (it's been a while), at one point Dallas had a fairly successful 3-4 defense with a pretty small NT (6-4 sub 300lbs).  The Ravens also had guys much closer to 300lbs, while having Ngata at the DE position.

 

All I can say is, if the brute force approach doesn't work with the guy we have (Chapman), it may be worthwhile to try a different approach.  Pigeon holing a NT as a guy who simply takes on two blockers?  If he can instead make plays on his own, why not let him?  It's better than having him occupy two blockers and the RB simply working against teh next hole in the defense.

 

And I am not speaking to Parry specifically, I am simply saying in general that the concept of a NT being the guy who clogs it all up and the only way to do that being brute force seems like a narrow minded approach.  We could very well perform better as a unit if the NT penetrated forcing the linemen up front to adjust over the course of the game.

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I dunno that I'll ever get this logic.  Yes, by definition a NT in a 3-4 is typically supposed to clog up the middle and take up two blockers.  However, if he instead penetrates and makes a play on his own... he's not doing his job?

 

Sorry, but lets say a guy like Parry consistently splits two linemen and eventually they're forced to keep him from doing that, he's then occupied two blockers.  I can't say that I'd find it 'ideal' that he simply always occupies two blockers by brute force.  If it happens to be due to penetration instead of just force, he's still getting into the backfield and disrupting a play, or forcing a line to adjust.

 

Using Parry as the example...if he were to get penetration and make a play, then yes that's great.  However, in my previous post I mentioned that the "closest he came" to making a play...not that he actually did make plays.  The only one that stands out is when he split 2 defenders and got into the backfield, forcing the RB to redirect. Now yes, Parry did disrupt that play, but by splitting the blockers instead of taking them on, he left those blockers free to go after other DL or LBs.  The NT specifically in our defense is supposed to take on blockers to keep the LBs free so that they can make the plays.  If the NT can do that and still make plays, then he's an elite NT like a Vince Wilfork.  Unfortunately those guys don't grow on trees.

 

 

 

Best I can remember (it's been a while), at one point Dallas had a fairly successful 3-4 defense with a pretty small NT (6-4 sub 300lbs).  The Ravens also had guys much closer to 300lbs, while having Ngata at the DE position.

 

 

Yes, Dallas did have a fairly successful defense with a smaller NT.  However, Wade Phillips was their D coordinator and he runs a 1-gap 3-4 scheme, not a 2-gap or hybrid.  Wade's defense is very different than most 3-4 defenses and he's always utilized smaller linemen.

 

All I can say is, if the brute force approach doesn't work with the guy we have (Chapman), it may be worthwhile to try a different approach.  Pigeon holing a NT as a guy who simply takes on two blockers?  If he can instead make plays on his own, why not let him?  It's better than having him occupy two blockers and the RB simply working against teh next hole in the defense.

 

 

Because the 11 guys on defense need to be working as a team every single play.  You can't have 10 guys trying to run the defensive play that was called and one guy just going freestyle.  All 11 guys have to fulfill their own personal responsibilities on each play in order for defense to work.  You simply can't tell the 11 guys to just go out and make a play in whatever way possible.

 

And I am not speaking to Parry specifically, I am simply saying in general that the concept of a NT being the guy who clogs it all up and the only way to do that being brute force seems like a narrow minded approach.  We could very well perform better as a unit if the NT penetrated forcing the linemen up front to adjust over the course of the game.

 

 

That's entirely possible, but the entire scheme would need to be changed to a 1-gap scheme so that all 11 players are on the same page.  :)

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"Parry competing for a starting spot" could be nothing more than coach-speak. Just like at the stat of halftime in the game vs. the Bears...a reporter stopped Pagano to ask him a few questions, one of which was asking him how Parry played. Pagano said "I thought he played well". If I thought Pagano actually believed that then I'd join the "Fire Pagano" brigade.

Parry has made a couple of plays, I'll give you that, but it's not been by doing the job he's supposed to be doing. The NT in this defense needs to be able to take on blockers, preferably 2 of them, to keep the LBs clean. Chapman does that. Parry did not. The only times I saw Parry coming close to "making a play" was when he split defenders, not by taking on blockers and pushing them around. Parry got pushed around against the Bears FAR more than Chapman did.

Now if the Colts are going to run more 1-gap than 2, then right now Parry would be the better option over Chapman. I'd still put Kerr in over both though. As an internal pass rusher, Parry would be better than Chapman...but against the run, Chapman is currently far superior to Parry imo.

Bottom line...I don't believe for a second that, RIGHT NOW, Parry is legitimately competing for a starting spot.

So the article and the quote directly from Manusky is wrong???? Yeah... I don't think so. Parry is competing for the Starting spot. If anyone should go to PS it's Chapman. Most of the time he gets a double team he gets washed out by it. And he cant get any penatration at all. He's a 4th year player and can hardly do his job if at all. That's what's bad. It was also interesting when I read how Chapman started the game at NT then was replaced by Parry who finished the rest of the time in with the 1st defense. Then while Parry and the rest of the 1st D were on the sidelines resting and done for the game, guess who was in playing with the 2s and 3s? Chapman. Hmmmmm.... not a good sign I'd say for him. I think the staff is really questionin his ability to get the job done and they are seeing if he really wants to prove himself. Or... hell lose the job.

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So the article and the quote directly from Manusky is wrong???? Yeah... I don't think so. Parry is competing for the Starting spot. If anyone should go to PS it's Chapman. Most of the time he gets a double team he gets washed out by it. And he cant get any penatration at all. He's a 4th year player and can hardly do his job if at all. That's what's bad. It was also interesting when I read how Chapman started the game at NT then was replaced by Parry who finished the rest of the time in with the 1st defense. Then while Parry and the rest of the 1st D were on the sidelines resting and done for the game, guess who was in playing with the 2s and 3s? Chapman. Hmmmmm.... not a good sign I'd say for him. I think the staff is really questionin his ability to get the job done and they are seeing if he really wants to prove himself. Or... hell lose the job.

 

Sorry, but not much of that is correct.  The only quotes in that article that are directly from Manusky are:

 

“In our eyes as coaches, we’re looking for a nose (tackle) that will stand out this week and compete and play,” said Manusky Wednesday.

 

“Every game we’re still preparing. Now can those three guys that are in there right now compete for a long haul?” asked Manusky. “Could it be a quarter? Could it be two quarters or three quarters? So we’re still evaluating those three guys inside to see who they are.”

 

There is no direct quote from Manusky with Parry's name in it. We have no idea exactly how the question was worded or whether he ever explicitly named Parry or not. Even if he did, as I said above, I'd contribute this to nothing more than coach-speak.

 

As for who was playing with the 1st team and who was playing with the 2nd and 3rd teams...Parry and Chapman were subbing in and out throughout the game. Parry played with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team and so did Chapman and Kerr (actually can't conclusively say I remember seeing Kerr with the 1st team but the other 2 definitely did). Parry's day was definitely not over after he had a couple of drives playing with the 1st team.

 

 

BTW, Chapman is not eligible for the PS and hasn't been for quite a while.  And you keep referring to this as his 4th season.  He missed his entire rookie season recuperating from knee surgery.  Yes, he has been on the roster for 4 years, but as far as playing time and player development go, he's going into year 3...not 4.

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Barring a trade I think Chapman, Parry, and Kerr are the NTs for this team. I think they will be used in a rotation. I thInk Parry has the most potential. I also think he has shown the most in the pre-season but that has also come mostly against backups. I would still lean his way as the starter but I am not going to be blown away if someone else starts and I think all three are going to play a lot.

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"Parry competing for a starting spot" could be nothing more than coach-speak.  Just like at the stat of halftime in the game vs. the Bears...a reporter stopped Pagano to ask him a few questions, one of which was asking him how Parry played.  Pagano said "I thought he played well".  If I thought Pagano actually believed that then I'd join the "Fire Pagano" brigade. 

 

Parry has made a couple of plays, I'll give you that, but it's not been by doing the job he's supposed to be doing.  The NT in this defense needs to be able to take on blockers, preferably 2 of them, to keep the LBs clean.  Chapman does that.  Parry did not.  The only times I saw Parry coming close to "making a play" was when he split defenders, not by taking on blockers and pushing them around.  Parry got pushed around against the Bears FAR more than Chapman did.

 

Now if the Colts are going to run more 1-gap than 2, then right now Parry would be the better option over Chapman.  I'd still put Kerr in over both though. As an internal pass rusher, Parry would be better than Chapman...but against the run, Chapman is currently far superior to Parry imo.

 

Bottom line...I don't believe for a second that, RIGHT NOW, Parry is legitimately competing for a starting spot. 

Good NT's do more then draw a double team....Because no NT draws a double team on every play...especially if they cant blow up a single block, They can blow up the Center into the backfield and read the rb, shed the block and make the play when the chance presents itself. Our NT's problem is Chapman don't have the stamina or acceleration. The rest (Hughes, Kerrs, Parry) show inconsistent technique, Appear to be thinking to much

 

If you look at good NT's they all had/have the ability to collapse the pocket or read and react and make the play when the chance was there

 

Ted Washington

Casey Hampton

Jamal Williams

Dontari Poe

Vince Wilfork

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Good NT's do more then draw a double team....Because no NT draws a double team on every play...especially if they cant blow up a single block, They can blow up the Center into the backfield and read the rb, shed the block and make the play when the chance presents itself. Our NT's problem is Chapman don't have the stamina or acceleration. The rest (Hughes, Kerrs, Parrys) show inconsistent technique, Appear to be thinking to much instead of just blowing up the C,

 

If you look at good NT's they all had/have the ability to collapse the pocket or read and react and make the play when the chance was there

 

Ted Washington

Casey Hampton

Jamal Williams

Dontari Poe

Vince Wilfork

 

I agree regarding Chapman's stamina, but disagree regarding his acceleration.  He has shown flashes when he's been fresh, but he quickly loses the acceleration due to the poor stamina. 

 

I also agree about good NTs being able to do more than just command a double team.  We don't have a NT on the roster that has shown he can be that consistently good NT that does the things you refer to.  From what I've seen so far though, Chapman is much closer to being that player than Parry is.  I do think Kerr is the closest to being that player.  I also will freely concede that Parry is still young and has a lot of room to grow and improve and could turn into that kind of player.  He's not there now though...not even close.

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I agree regarding Chapman's stamina, but disagree regarding his acceleration. He has shown flashes when he's been fresh, but he quickly loses the acceleration due to the poor stamina.

I also agree about good NTs being able to do more than just command a double team. We don't have a NT on the roster that has shown he can be that consistently good NT that does the things you refer to. From what I've seen so far though, Chapman is much closer to being that player than Parry is. I do think Kerr is the closest to being that player. I also will freely concede that Parry is still young and has a lot of room to grow and improve and could turn into that kind of player. He's not there now though...not even close.

But Parry has already shown more potential than Chapman has really ever shown. It's great he can draw double teams, but how often does he control those double teams and control the gap? Not very often from what Ive seen. He gets handled ALOT. Sometimes even by just the Center. Just simply drawing the double team is not enough.

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Sorry, but not much of that is correct. The only quotes in that article that are directly from Manusky are:

“In our eyes as coaches, we’re looking for a nose (tackle) that will stand out this week and compete and play,” said Manusky Wednesday.

“Every game we’re still preparing. Now can those three guys that are in there right now compete for a long haul?” asked Manusky. “Could it be a quarter? Could it be two quarters or three quarters? So we’re still evaluating those three guys inside to see who they are.”

There is no direct quote from Manusky with Parry's name in it. We have no idea exactly how the question was worded or whether he ever explicitly named Parry or not. Even if he did, as I said above, I'd contribute this to nothing more than coach-speak.

As for who was playing with the 1st team and who was playing with the 2nd and 3rd teams...Parry and Chapman were subbing in and out throughout the game. Parry played with the 1st, 2nd and 3rd team and so did Chapman and Kerr (actually can't conclusively say I remember seeing Kerr with the 1st team but the other 2 definitely did). Parry's day was definitely not over after he had a couple of drives playing with the 1st team.

BTW, Chapman is not eligible for the PS and hasn't been for quite a while. And you keep referring to this as his 4th season. He missed his entire rookie season recuperating from knee surgery. Yes, he has been on the roster for 4 years, but as far as playing time and player development go, he's going into year 3...not 4.

It called implied!!! He was saying it without really saying it. Now whether you Wanna choose to believe it or not is on you. But because you don't doesn't mean that it's not the case or that it's wrong. The whole coach speak thing is just an excuse to try and say it's not believable. That's all that is. Not everything a coach says is "coach speak" and you have to way to determine or prove that.

As to Parry and Chapman and which units they played with. Reguardless... it still doesn't say too much for Chapman who was the bonified starter over the last 3 years to be getting reps with the 2-3rd teams when the rest of the D starters were basically done. Parry it's understandable him going back in. He's a rookie and needs reps and the coaches wanna get a good look at him.

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I agree regarding Chapman's stamina, but disagree regarding his acceleration.  He has shown flashes when he's been fresh, but he quickly loses the acceleration due to the poor stamina. 

 

I also agree about good NTs being able to do more than just command a double team.  We don't have a NT on the roster that has shown he can be that consistently good NT that does the things you refer to.  From what I've seen so far though, Chapman is much closer to being that player than Parry is.  I do think Kerr is the closest to being that player.  I also will freely concede that Parry is still young and has a lot of room to grow and improve and could turn into that kind of player.  He's not there now though...not even close.

I've re-watched the Bears game and see the double team washouts of Parry that I think you are referring to, but was surprised by how slow Sylvester or Herrera would fill the vacancy.  I guess it would be nice to see your NT not displaced so readily, but it didn't look out of place to me that 2 guys about his size could move him out of the way when they fully committed to the task.  Those weren't combo doubles where one blocker tries to glance off and get to the second level. 

 

I think our D is designed to work very well if the O-line tries to blow a hole in it....LBs are supposed to flow into the gap like water.

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Parry, along with Anderson were two of my favourite D prospects in the draft. I was real excited when we got both. I think eventually Parry will be the NT. Really looking forward to these next two Preseason games to see how he does. I just hope the Coaching staff doesn't stick with Chapman simply due to experience. If Parry (or Kerr) are clearly playing better, they better put em' in.

that just can't be true
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Against 2's and 3's.....

He had a bit of time against 1's but he didnt flash like he did against the 2's and 3's against them. I think Kerr will take it.

Parry was still more disruptive against the 1s. He's a rookie, so of course he's going to get most of his reps against 2/3. But when he consistently beats 2/3, then he deserves his chance against the 1s. I stand by my statement.

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I truly don't think Parry (310 lbs) is being considered for the primary (running down) NT. In my eyes he's a DT who could shift to NT in long 2nd & 3rd down situations. There are 7 tackles competing for a spot and Parry is the lightest.

 

Also, how does Hughes, a 350 lb, 24 year old, find himself not in the conversation? He's not just the heaviest man on the defense, he's the heaviest man on the roster. I guess I just don't know enough to understand how the competition isn't really between Chapman (335), Kerr (334) & Hughes (350) for running down NT.

 

What do I not understand?

 

DE

Langford, Kendall (6-6, 305)

Anderson, Henry (6-6, 300)

Okine, Earl (6-6, 290)

DT

Jones, Arthur (6-3 320)

Parry, David (6-2, 310)

Quarles, Kelcy (6-4, 312)

Pendleton, Jeris (6-2, 323)

 

NT

Hughes, Montori (6-4, 350)

Kerr, Zach (6-2 334)

Chapman, Josh (6-0, 335)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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What about Hughes? Isn't he in the running?

I thought he'd be in the running for NT, but I think we'll instead see him rotate around the DL.  He, IMO, is big enough (though I'm not sure if he's added the strength he seemed to lack last year) to be a NT and fast enough to play on the outsides in a 3-4.

 

Chapman and TRich were highly regarded pro prospects when Alabama teammates. They must have had a lot of help that covered up their many limitations.

 

That 'Bama team was stacked -- however, I think a lot with Chapman may be due to his injury.  He played the end of his senior year on a bum knee that required surgery after their season and then missed the first full year he was drafted.  I think his second year (and maybe 3rd) years were somewhat recovery years for him.  I think we will see him improve this season.

 

I wish they would run a 4-3 with our current personnel.

 

DL  Langford, Kerr, Parry, Jones

 

LB   Cole, Irving, Mathis or Walden

 

I think Jones would be an interior guy in a 4-3 and Anderson would be the DE on the other side of Langford.  Ina  4-3, Mathis would probably be best suited to go back to DE and rush like he did most of his career.  Werner could also (IMO) make a decent 4-3 DE.

 

Cole and Mathis are both pass-rush specialists.  Our LB corps, IMO, would not be very good in a 4-3 if they were our 2 OLB -- they'd have to rotate or both only be in the game on obvious passing situations.

 

Chapman is probably getting cut

What is this based on?

 

This is a great question.  We still have two preseason games left to show where each are at, and as always the possibility of injuries.

 

Pendleton and Quarles bring the same motor to the DL as Kerr.  It just seems to me it will be a numbers situation and how many we keep.  JP and Quarles could still go to the practice squad.

I was very impressed with Pendleton 2 years ago when he got some time on the roster at the end of the year and have been impressed with him this pre-season.  It'll be a numbers game, but I really hope we can figure a way to keep him in Indy.

 

So the article and the quote directly from Manusky is wrong???? Yeah... I don't think so. Parry is competing for the Starting spot. If anyone should go to PS it's Chapman. Most of the time he gets a double team he gets washed out by it. And he cant get any penatration at all. He's a 4th year player and can hardly do his job if at all. That's what's bad. It was also interesting when I read how Chapman started the game at NT then was replaced by Parry who finished the rest of the time in with the 1st defense. Then while Parry and the rest of the 1st D were on the sidelines resting and done for the game, guess who was in playing with the 2s and 3s? Chapman. Hmmmmm.... not a good sign I'd say for him. I think the staff is really questionin his ability to get the job done and they are seeing if he really wants to prove himself. Or... hell lose the job.

Chapman can't go to the PS. 

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I wish they would run a 4-3 with our current personnel.

 

DL  Langford, Kerr, Parry, Jones

 

LB   Cole, Irving, Mathis or Walden

 

Otherwise known as the worst pass rush and worst LB pass defense in NFL history?  Goodness.

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Parry was still more disruptive against the 1s. He's a rookie, so of course he's going to get most of his reps against 2/3. But when he consistently beats 2/3, then he deserves his chance against the 1s. I stand by my statement.

Don't get me wrong, I totally agree that he deserves a shot against the ones, but Chuck will go with the experience of Kerr over Parry I think. Parry might take that starting role a bit further into the season if he continues on his current trend, but for now I think Kerr just has to not make any huge mistakes and he'll start.

Or Chuck throws us all a curveball and just sticks with Chapman who we all know is just average at best...

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Lets face it....I said I liked Parry's effort coming in out of college.  Two more preseason games to prove themselves.

 

For those saying Chapman will get cut....No way.  I know we have yet to see his best yet we may never.  Lets pay attn. to the NT play this week as well as the other DLs.

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