Werner no longer a starter

[Esquire59]

Good run defender, physical player.  Good move.  Future is there over rush.

[oldunclemark]

Like TK said, we took a project....but you're right. Its not over for him.   But he shouldn't start for a playoff team

The issue with Werner is that he is still learning the position. I don't see him being a great player but I see him getting better every year and being a solid backup one day. But not today

 

[Jason_]

Like TK said, we took a project.

 

no, no we didn't. 

[SOMDColtsfan]

No

Can you maybe expand a little than just a simple "no". Werner`s strength was stopping the run, too slow for TE coverage? Just trying to understand   

[BOTT]

Can you maybe expand a little than just a simple "no". Werner`s strength was stopping the run, too slow for TE coverage? Just trying to understand

He's not physical enough, lacks the instincts, probably couldn't cover anyone. But I disagree with most, I don't see Werner as a good run stopper. Walden is simply a solid run stopper, and Werner can't beat him out....what's that tell you?

[BOTT]

Like TK said, we took a project....but you're right. Its not over for him.   But he shouldn't start for a playoff team

Werner appeared in every game as a freshman at FSU and started his soph/jr years....registering double digit sacks in a very competitive league. How is that a project player?

[Gavin]

Werner appeared in every game as a freshman at FSU and started his soph/jr years....registering double digit sacks in a very competitive league. How is that a project player?

Getting double digit sacks in college football don't make you any less of a project. Jerry Hughes had 28.5 sacks in 4 years at TCU and he was clearly a project coming out, He was able to get by so well in college because the majority of college football players do not know anything about technique and he had fantastic acceleration off the snap so he could win easy with pure speed, college players use there natural physical gifts, Werners natural gifts were good enough to beat what was usually probably some bad right and left tackles in college......But the technique was not there so now he struggles (no spin move...or not one that's affective, no good counter moves)

[BOTT]

Getting double digit sacks in college football don't make you any less of a project. Jerry Hughes had 28.5 sacks in 4 years at TCU and he was clearly a project coming out, He was able to get by so well in college because the majority of college football players do not know anything about technique and he had fantastic acceleration off the snap so he could win easy with pure speed, college players use there natural physical gifts, Werners natural gifts were good enough to beat what was usually probably some bad right and left tackles in college......But the technique was not there so now he struggles (no spin move...or not one that's affective, no good counter moves)

He's not a project. It wasn't his acceleration that got Werner sacks at FSU, it was snap anticipation and dumb college quarterbacks not adjusting. He just isn't athletic enough to be a pass rusher at the NFL level. And Hughes wasn't a project either.

Guys like Ezekiel Ansah are projects.

[Gavin]

He's not a project. It wasn't his acceleration that got Werner sacks at FSU, it was snap anticipation and dumb college quarterbacks not adjusting. He just isn't athletic enough to be a pass rusher at the NFL level. And Hughes wasn't a project either.

Guys like Ezekiel Ansah are projects.

"And Hughes wasn't a project either."

 

It was obvious watching Hughes he was(He had the physical traits and numbers to be a top pick....He was also healthy), He was very inconsistent wrapping up and tackling instead choosing to slam into the ball carrier, He also tried to beat you with  pure speed most of the time. Of course he(Werner) is a project unless you call not having much in the form of pass rush moves good, There have also been plenty of good pass rushers who have not been overly athletic...Paul Kruger, Terrell Suggs even, Heck Reggie White was not an athletic specimen, Connor Barwin is another player I don't think is overly athletic but he had 14.5 sacks last year and 11.5 in 2011......and yes many are athletic

 

 

"it was snap anticipation and dumb college quarterbacks not adjusting."

 

You just described the majority of college QB's

[BOTT]

"And Hughes wasn't a project either."

 

It was obvious watching Hughes he was(He had the physical traits and numbers to be a top pick....He was also healthy), He was very inconsistent wrapping up and tackling instead choosing to slam into the ball carrier, He also tried to beat you with  pure speed most of the time. Of course he(Werner) is a project unless you call not having much in the form of pass rush moves good, There have also been plenty of good pass rushers who have not been overly athletic...Paul Kruger, Terrell Suggs even, Heck Reggie White was not an athletic specimen, Connor Barwin is another player I don't think is overly athletic but he had 14.5 sacks last year and 11.5 in 2011......and yes many are athletic

 

 

"it was snap anticipation and dumb college quarterbacks not adjusting."

 

You just described the majority of college QB's

I know I just described most college QB's.......that's how Werner got his sacks.

[Gavin]

I know I just described most college QB's.......that's how Werner got his sacks.

And every other college DE/OLB

[BOTT]

And every other college DE/OLB

Yeah, that's why they don't get drafted in the first like slow twitch Werner

[SOMDColtsfan]

He's not physical enough, lacks the instincts, probably couldn't cover anyone. But I disagree with most, I don't see Werner as a good run stopper. Walden is simply a solid run stopper, and Werner can't beat him out....what's that tell you?

Werner is listed 6`5 255..Freeman is like 6'1 240. How is Werner "not physical enough"? I`d have to see him try and fail at ILB before I`ll give up the idea 

[SOMDColtsfan]

He's not physical enough, lacks the instincts, probably couldn't cover anyone. But I disagree with most, I don't see Werner as a good run stopper. Walden is simply a solid run stopper, and Werner can't beat him out....what's that tell you?

Brian Urlacher, 6`4- 258 was once benched as strongside OLB and lost job to Rosevelt Colvin. Moved to ILB when starter Barry Minter was injured, and the rest is history. Is Werner at same level as Urlacher, of course not, but I want to see it tried  

[AntonMcG]

Could someone please explain to me this concept of Werner being considered a 'project'?

 

Was he not a productive College player who was believed to have good fundamentals? Is that not the exact opposite of a 'project player'?

[Jason_]

Could someone please explain to me this concept of Werner being considered a 'project'?

 

Was he not a productive College player who was believed to have good fundamentals? Is that not the exact opposite of a 'project player'?

 

duh, don't you know?  He was a DE in a 4-3 in college and switched to a 3-4 OLB in the pros.  That has literally never happened before in the history of time so, obviously...he was a project.  Gawd

 

 

lol

[CanuckColt]

Hindsight is 20/20...but IF we had taken a Center like Fredericks, we would be in great shape now.

[Superman]

He's not physical enough, lacks the instincts, probably couldn't cover anyone. But I disagree with most, I don't see Werner as a good run stopper. Walden is simply a solid run stopper, and Werner can't beat him out....what's that tell you?

 

Werner has never competed against Walden. IMO, he'll make a better Sam than Walden. He's a better pass rusher (which says more about Walden than it does Werner), he's just as good at setting the edge, he gets off blocks better, he's just as good in the short area coverage that we ask the Sam to play... This is where he should have been all along.

[mattceinicram]

Werner is inconsistent, he occasionally shows great flashes.

[ColtStronger]

Good. I'm tired of waiting for the guy to "Show up" personally. Why keep the guy at a position where he visibly struggles? Then there's always some excuse like the guy was playing injured for 90% of the season or whatever. For God's sake, these guys either produce out of the gate or they go to reserve roles or are even cut.

Welcome to the NFL... Life's not fair either!  It's crazy how people want to ignore the fact this is the reality for #1 picks, HC's, and QB's

[BOTT]

Werner is listed 6`5 255..Freeman is like 6'1 240. How is Werner "not physical enough"? I`d have to see him try and fail at ILB before I`ll give up the idea

That doesn't make you a physical player

[Dustin]

Werner has never competed against Walden. IMO, he'll make a better Sam than Walden. He's a better pass rusher (which says more about Walden than it does Werner), he's just as good at setting the edge, he gets off blocks better, he's just as good in the short area coverage that we ask the Sam to play... This is where he should have been all along.

He's not a better pass rusher than Walden. And that says a lot.

Werner's probably one of the bottom 10 edge rushers in the league.

[TKnight24]

Werner appeared in every game as a freshman at FSU and started his soph/jr years....registering double digit sacks in a very competitive league. How is that a project player?

Making someone play a position they've NEVER played before in their life is a project move. Project player

Something you DON'T do with a 1st round pick

You didn't see us take Luck and try to make him play LB

Your first round pick should be someone who'll make an IMMEDIATE impact from day one. Not hope they learn a new position then make an impact. By the time Werner even becomes average, his contract will be up

[TKnight24]

Werner is listed 6`5 255..Freeman is like 6'1 240. How is Werner "not physical enough"? I`d have to see him try and fail at ILB before I`ll give up the idea

Does the phrase "Big for nothing" ring a bell? Just cause you're big, don't mean you know how to use it. There's plenty of soft big men in the NFL

Shoot I still remember Fleener on that game against the Titans when he was running open in the field and he ran out of bounds instead of taking on the CB that was the only player who could've stopped him

Gronk, Graham, or V. Davis (TE not our Davis) would've destroyed that CB

Even Dwayne Allen

[BOTT]

Werner has never competed against Walden. IMO, he'll make a better Sam than Walden. He's a better pass rusher (which says more about Walden than it does Werner), he's just as good at setting the edge, he gets off blocks better, he's just as good in the short area coverage that we ask the Sam to play... This is where he should have been all along.

Yeah, I going to say we disagree on Werner. I highly doubt one of us will change their mind on the subject, so we can just let play out.

[BOTT]

Making someone play a position they've NEVER played before in their life is a project move. Project player

Something you DON'T do with a 1st round pick

You didn't see us take Luck and try to make him play LB

Your first round pick should be someone who'll make an IMMEDIATE impact from day one. Not hope they learn a new position then make an impact. By the time Werner even becomes average, his contract will be up

Was he effective with his hand in the dirt playing DE just like he had in college? No. You need to stop acting like he was drafted to play OLB in a 43. Robert Mathis screamed off the edge for years as a DE......now he basically does the same thing they just call him a LB. Wow, how did he ever make the transition.......

[Gavin]

According to the Football Medias Website Werner played in 306 snaps in 2013, 2014 according to the Football Medias Website he played in 747, Both numbers are defensive regular season snaps only.

 

I have not went back and counted myself but 306 averages out to 19.1 snaps a game his rookie year and 747 in 2014 averages out to 49.8 snaps a game (through 15 regular season games he played in)

[Superman]

He's not a better pass rusher than Walden. And that says a lot.

Werner's probably one of the bottom 10 edge rushers in the league.

 

You're right. What I should say is that I believe he has the potential to be a better pass rusher than Walden, particularly from the Sam spot.

 

Everything else is more pertinent to the Sam spot.

[TKnight24]

Was he effective with his hand in the dirt playing DE just like he had in college? No. You need to stop acting like he was drafted to play OLB in a 43. Robert Mathis screamed off the edge for years as a DE......now he basically does the same thing they just call him a LB. Wow, how did he ever make the transition.......

End of the day, the kid STINKS and he'll never live up to that 1st round pick. Draw it up however you want, look at it, redraw it, look again. Same results, he stinks

If it wasn't for this Front Office having struggles with admitting they're wrong, he'd probably be off the roster come cut day this year

[Superman]

End of the day, the kid STINKS and he'll never live up to that 1st round pick. Draw it up however you want, look at it, redraw it, look again. Same results, he stinks

If it wasn't for this Front Office having struggles with admitting they're wrong, he'd probably be off the roster come cut day this year

 

If you could separate those two things, you'd be on to something. Just because he won't live up to his draft status doesn't mean he's no good. That's absolutely false. He's actually a good Sam, and that's a critical position on this defense. This whole "he should be cut" thing is ridiculous. He's just not a good pass rusher.

[Dark Superman]

The day we signed Trent Cole here I think everyone knew Werner would be nothing more than a backup here. He's shown signs that he could be a decent run defender, but his pass rushing skills just haven't developed as much as we would have liked. He's probably like our fifth or sixth best pass rusher..

[Quallenregen]

Last year, Mathis injury makes Werner to be a starter.... this year, learning the next position....

[camcolts2621]

Can we all just be done with this............ Werner is not what we thought he was, so just let him off the hook!!!!!!!!

[GoColts8818]

I don't think he was awesome today but he wasn't bad.  He tipped the ball on an INT and I thought he was pretty good today. 

[RockThatBlue]

I don't think he was awesome today but he wasn't bad. He tipped the ball on an INT and I thought he was pretty good today.

Yup, made no glaring mistakes that I can think of and had the tip as you said. Granted he probably didn't play more than 15-20 snaps, but overall he looked OK.

[Dark Superman]

Werner seems to be getting worse... He couldn't even look decent against second and third stringers today. He should have dominated out there, instead Kerr, Okrine and Parry shined. Hmm..

[Superman]

Werner seems to be getting worse... He couldn't even look decent against second and third stringers today. He should have dominated out there, instead Kerr, Okrine and Parry shined. Hmm..

 

They all play different positions than Werner... ?

[braveheartcolt]

Just been rewatching last seasons games. Just started the Benglas game. Werner has been far from 'stinking' up to this point. In those few games he did far more than Hughes did in 3 years. And yet....

I know he faded, but give the lad a chance.

[SteelCityColt]

Just been rewatching last seasons games. Just started the Benglas game. Werner has been far from 'stinking' up to this point. In those few games he did far more than Hughes did in 3 years. And yet....

I know he faded, but give the lad a chance.

 

While I don't think these are the only reasons he's not performed you do have to factor in injury, being asked to play Rush when clearly his strength is as Sam backer and outside of Mathis a lack of a decent pass rusher. 

 

Personally I'm interested to see how he does in a D that on paper is much better (though the D-line showing yesterday wasn't great!), and playing in a role more suited to his abilities. It's like when people were beating up on Walden when Walden has been doing a very solid job within the remit he's given in our scheme. 

 

To be clear I'm not saying Werner is a good player, but I'm not totally ready to give up.... just yet  

[lollygagger8]

Werner looked a lot better...but a lot of it was against 2nd stringers, so I don't know if that's a good judge of improvement.