Werner no longer a starter

[Jason_]

Werner seems to be getting worse... He couldn't even look decent against second and third stringers today. He should have dominated out there, instead Kerr, Okrine and Parry shined. Hmm..

 

Not true

 

Making someone play a position they've NEVER played before in their life is a project move. Project player

 

I love when people comment about things they have no idea about.  Werner lined up all over the field in FSU's multiple front defense.  Yes, he was mostly a DE on the end of their line, but he also lined up in space as both an ILB and OLB.

 

Something you DON'T do with a 1st round pick

 

Even if Werner had never played OLB (which, he had), taking a college 4-3 DE in the first round to play 3-4 OLB happens LITERALLY every single year. 

You didn't see us take Luck and try to make him play LB

 

 

This is just ignorant.  Comparing playing QB to LB is not even remotely close to the same thing as comparing 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. 

 

Your first round pick should be someone who'll make an IMMEDIATE impact from day one. Not hope they learn a new position then make an impact. By the time Werner even becomes average, his contract will be up

 

 

Yeah, that's not even true.  At best, the top 10-15 picks in the draft could be "expected" to make an immediate impact.  After that it's a crapshoot.  The number of mid to late first round picks that DON'T make an immediate impact far outnumber those that do.

[Jason_]

Werner seems to be getting worse... He couldn't even look decent against second and third stringers today. He should have dominated out there, instead Kerr, Okrine and Parry shined. Hmm..

 

Not true

 

Making someone play a position they've NEVER played before in their life is a project move. Project player

 

I love when people comment about things they have no idea about.  Werner lined up all over the field in FSU's multiple front defense.  Yes, he was mostly a DE on the end of their line, but he also lined up in space as both an ILB and OLB.

 

Something you DON'T do with a 1st round pick

 

Even if Werner had never played OLB (which, he had), taking a college 4-3 DE in the first round to play 3-4 OLB happens LITERALLY every single year. 

You didn't see us take Luck and try to make him play LB

 

 

This is just ignorant.  Comparing playing QB to LB is not even remotely close to the same thing as comparing 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. 

 

Your first round pick should be someone who'll make an IMMEDIATE impact from day one. Not hope they learn a new position then make an impact. By the time Werner even becomes average, his contract will be up

 

 

Yeah, that's not even true.  At best, the top 10-15 picks in the draft could be "expected" to make an immediate impact.  After that it's a crapshoot.  The number of mid to late first round picks that DON'T make an immediate impact far outnumber those that do.

[SteelCityColt]

Not true

 

 

I love when people comment about things they have no idea about.  Werner lined up all over the field in FSU's multiple front defense.  Yes, he was mostly a DE on the end of their line, but he also lined up in space as both an ILB and OLB.

 

 

Even if Werner had never played OLB (which, he had), taking a college 4-3 DE in the first round to play 3-4 OLB happens LITERALLY every single year. 

 

This is just ignorant.  Comparing playing QB to LB is not even remotely close to the same thing as comparing 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

Yeah, that's not even true.  At best, the top 10-15 picks in the draft could be "expected" to make an immediate impact.  After that it's a crapshoot.  The number of mid to late first round picks that DON'T make an immediate impact far outnumber those that do.

 

QFT

[ColtsLegacy]

Werner seems to be getting worse... He couldn't even look decent against second and third stringers today. He should have dominated out there, instead Kerr, Okrine and Parry shined. Hmm..

 

Bjoern Werner PFF grade vs Eagles:

 

23 snaps - +2.8 overall, +0.3 run, +2.4 pass rush

 

3rd best rating on the Colts defense. Take off the blinders.

[ColtsLegacy]

Making someone play a position they've NEVER played before in their life is a project move. Project player

Something you DON'T do with a 1st round pick

You didn't see us take Luck and try to make him play LB

Your first round pick should be someone who'll make an IMMEDIATE impact from day one. Not hope they learn a new position then make an impact. By the time Werner even becomes average, his contract will be up

 

Are you kidding me, TK? Literally, something like, 90% of 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I've told you this before when you made this ridiculous claim.

 

In the future, when you don't have any evidence to support your claim, it's better to just not say anything than to say something that even you know is nonsense.

[mvbighead]

Are you kidding me, TK? Literally, something like, 90% of 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I've told you this before when you made this ridiculous claim.

 

In the future, when you don't have any evidence to support your claim, it's better to just not say anything than to say something that even you know is nonsense.

 

Yup.

 

Honestly, the amount of hate on here for the guy is amusing.  No, he certainly didn't pan out to what they had hoped.  Beyond that, he is an adequate player that is likely a better fit at a different position.

 

My only concern right now is the development of Newsome.  The kid appears to have good traits to become a good pass rusher ala Mathis.  But now he potentially has Mathis and Cole over him, which is going to be eerily similar to what we did with Hughes and Freeney/Mathis.  That said, depth at pass rusher is a great thing to have, so I am sure from a team standpoint all this depth is a great thing... I just want to see the kid get more chances.

 

But Werner, he's not a dynamic pass rusher, but he is a very instinctive player and usually reacts well to the QB.  Sacks aren't normally high, but he does typically get pressure and affect throwing lanes.  All good things.

[TKnight24]

Are you kidding me, TK? Literally, something like, 90% of 3-4 OLBs in the NFL were 4-3 DEs in college. I've told you this before when you made this ridiculous claim.

In the future, when you don't have any evidence to support your claim, it's better to just not say anything than to say something that even you know is nonsense.

I know how often it happens, I don't approve of it from any team. It's an experiment/project that'll either work or blow up in your face

Ours blew up cause Werner stinks. Everyone keeps saying it's cause he's not 100%. So now you gotta ask.... will he ever be 100%?

Sure he had the deflection yesterday. But much like the Seattle play against the 49ers in the NFCCG who Sherman tipped the ball. Without the other defender it's just a deflection. He was a waste of a 1st rounder when we could've took Rhodes

[ColtsLegacy]

I know how often it happens, I don't approve of it from any team. It's an experiment/project that'll either work or blow up in your face

Ours blew up cause Werner stinks. Everyone keeps saying it's cause he's not 100%. So now you gotta ask.... will he ever be 100%?

Sure he had the deflection yesterday. But much like the Seattle play against the 49ers in the NFCCG who Sherman tipped the ball. Without the other defender it's just a deflection. He was a waste of a 1st rounder when we could've took Rhodes

So much ignorance.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Beleive me, I'm not a big supporter of the guy or the pick at the time.  But he's not a bust. Disappointment?  Yes.  He turned out not quite to be what some thought he could be (a guy who plays faster then his 40 time suggests and disruptive at the point of attack). Most of all, many remember he was a scratch in the AFCCG.  But if he develops into a good and solid SAM, then he's no bust.  Many considered Werner more of a finished product from FSU than others (IE: Tank Carradine for one, who has more upside but suffering issues of his own), but that means his upside isn't quite as high neither.

 

The TRich trade and Werner pick soured many on our recent #1 choices, so we have the to deal with as well. (others feel the Dorsett pick continues the tradition....).

 

TRich is gone, and Werner is a #2, for now.  It is what it is.

[K-148]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2014/11/29/colts-bjoern-werners-form-tails-off/

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2015/01/10/colts-run-defense-is-key/

Walden is not better than Werner... or not much better.

Cut Werner - 3M dead money, cut Walden - 500K dead money.

[BOTT]

Beleive me, I'm not a big supporter of the guy or the pick at the time.  But he's not a bust. Disappointment?  Yes.  He turned out not quite to be what some thought he could be (a guy who plays faster then his 40 time suggests and disruptive at the point of attack). Most of all, many remember he was a scratch in the AFCCG.  But if he develops into a good and solid SAM, then he's no bust.  Many considered Werner more of a finished product from FSU than others (IE: Tank Carradine for one, who has more upside but suffering issues of his own), but that means his upside isn't quite as high neither.

 

The TRich trade and Werner pick soured many on our recent #1 choices, so we have the to deal with as well. (others feel the Dorsett pick continues the tradition....).

 

TRich is gone, and Werner is a #2, for now.  It is what it is.

What it is is poor decision by the GM

[ColtsfaninTexas]

Not true

 

 

I love when people comment about things they have no idea about.  Werner lined up all over the field in FSU's multiple front defense.  Yes, he was mostly a DE on the end of their line, but he also lined up in space as both an ILB and OLB.

 

 

Even if Werner had never played OLB (which, he had), taking a college 4-3 DE in the first round to play 3-4 OLB happens LITERALLY every single year. 

 

This is just ignorant.  Comparing playing QB to LB is not even remotely close to the same thing as comparing 4-3 DE to 3-4 OLB. 

 

 

Yeah, that's not even true.  At best, the top 10-15 picks in the draft could be "expected" to make an immediate impact.  After that it's a crapshoot.  The number of mid to late first round picks that DON'T make an immediate impact far outnumber those that do.

 

 

LOLOL. You had your work cut out for you, good job

[mvbighead]

What it is is poor decision by the GM

 

I'd agree with this, but the thing about this is that many GMs simply stick to their board.  We did that in this case, but it just didn't work.  Werner was once rated a top 10 pick until his 40 time caused him to plummet.  It was an excellent chance to take, even if it didn't pan out.

 

Personally, I still HATE the pick of Hughes knowing we had Mathis and Freeney over him, and never did he really get a chance to do much on the field, and certainly not in situations that favored his skill set (passing downs where we'd have Mathis and Freeney).  So then, we trade away Hughes (new GM) and he succeeds in his next spot.  I firmly believe that a 1st round pick should be in an area of need for a starting position.  Werner I would say more or less was.  We had Mathis, but Walden was more of a stop gap.  It was at least a better situation than Hughes.

 

Dorsett won't exactly be a starter right away, but he'll be an excellent rotational player and have a number of chances.  And in a couple of years, Johnson will most likely be gone, and at that point we'll have Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett.

 

I dunno, I definitely have questions about our GM at times, but still have a solid roster, and are improving year over year on paper.  I've seen Pat fan boys say we'll get rocked again by the Pats, but all I can see is that we have improved in all sort of areas (even defense), while the Pats have regressed in most (the loss of Revis and Wilfork).  I am happy with Grigson for the moment, but I do suspect he could improve.  We're pretty much his team at this point, with very few remnants from the past regime.  It's definitely getting closer to a boom or bust year for him.

[throwing BBZ]

Yup.

 

Honestly, the amount of hate on here for the guy is amusing.  No, he certainly didn't pan out to what they had hoped.  Beyond that, he is an adequate player that is likely a better fit at a different position.

 

My only concern right now is the development of Newsome.  The kid appears to have good traits to become a good pass rusher ala Mathis.  But now he potentially has Mathis and Cole over him, which is going to be eerily similar to what we did with Hughes and Freeney/Mathis.  That said, depth at pass rusher is a great thing to have, so I am sure from a team standpoint all this depth is a great thing... I just want to see the kid get more chances.

 

But Werner, he's not a dynamic pass rusher, but he is a very instinctive player and usually reacts well to the QB.  Sacks aren't normally high, but he does typically get pressure and affect throwing lanes.  All good things.

 

 Werner had 4 sacks his 1st 4 games last season and 50 tackles to Waldens 37.

 It is just braindead to call him a bust or a big disappointment. There were 2 pass rushers drafted way ahead of him in his draft that have been BUSTS.

 He is solid and on a very similar track as Anthony Spencer, who had similar physical skills. And that was quite OBVIOUS very early his 1st season for those with a Clue..

[BOTT]

Werner had 4 sacks his 1st 4 games last season and 50 tackles to Waldens 37.

 It is just braindead to call him a bust or a big disappointment. There were 2 pass rushers drafted way ahead of him in his draft that have been BUSTS.

 He is solid and on a very similar track as Anthony Spencer, who had similar physical skills. And that was quite OBVIOUS very early his 1st season for those with a Clue..

Guess HOFer Bill Polian is brain dead

[throwing BBZ]

I'd agree with this, but the thing about this is that many GMs simply stick to their board.  We did that in this case, but it just didn't work.  Werner was once rated a top 10 pick until his 40 time caused him to plummet.  It was an excellent chance to take, even if it didn't pan out.

 

Personally, I still HATE the pick of Hughes knowing we had Mathis and Freeney over him, and never did he really get a chance to do much on the field, and certainly not in situations that favored his skill set (passing downs where we'd have Mathis and Freeney).  So then, we trade away Hughes (new GM) and he succeeds in his next spot.  I firmly believe that a 1st round pick should be in an area of need for a starting position.  Werner I would say more or less was.  We had Mathis, but Walden was more of a stop gap.  It was at least a better situation than Hughes.

 

Dorsett won't exactly be a starter right away, but he'll be an excellent rotational player and have a number of chances.  And in a couple of years, Johnson will most likely be gone, and at that point we'll have Hilton, Moncrief and Dorsett.

 

I dunno, I definitely have questions about our GM at times, but still have a solid roster, and are improving year over year on paper.  I've seen Pat fan boys say we'll get rocked again by the Pats, but all I can see is that we have improved in all sort of areas (even defense), while the Pats have regressed in most (the loss of Revis and Wilfork).  I am happy with Grigson for the moment, but I do suspect he could improve.  We're pretty much his team at this point, with very few remnants from the past regime.  It's definitely getting closer to a boom or bust year for him.

 

 Hahahahaha!

 Freeney was old and Mathis was always weak against the run. AND we had no Depth at pass Rusher so developing Hughes was a HUGE need. Good grief!

 When those guys missed a game the previous season, we through out their Your Boys Josh Thomas, Keyunta Dawson.

 And when Hughes did play his 3rd season he played fairly well with one less sack than Freeney and had 41 tackles to Dwights 12.

 Freeney`s last 2 season 20 games 12 tackles 4 sacks.

 Hughes -32 games 99 tackles 19.5 sacks. Doesn`t this make you feel ____ bla

[Superman]

I'd agree with this, but the thing about this is that many GMs simply stick to their board.  We did that in this case, but it just didn't work.  Werner was once rated a top 10 pick until his 40 time caused him to plummet.  It was an excellent chance to take, even if it didn't pan out.

 

I would argue that the Werner pick was more of a needs-based pick than a stick to the board pick. I obviously can't prove that, and it's mostly based on my opinion of the players that were available that year. But I don't think Werner was BPA, and I wasn't that excited about him before the draft.

[mvbighead]

I would argue that the Werner pick was more of a needs-based pick than a stick to the board pick. I obviously can't prove that, and it's mostly based on my opinion of the players that were available that year. But I don't think Werner was BPA, and I wasn't that excited about him before the draft.

 

I do think Werner had to be a BPA.  He was simply rated far too high early in the process, and many were surprised he slipped as far as he did.  Personally, I just figure he was too slow to be a Mathis type of pass rusher.  Granted, as others have pointed out there are a number of players who have overcome lack of elite athleticism (Barwin, etc).

 

I dunno that we had a MAJOR need at OLB, what with the availability of Walden and Mathis, but pass rusher is something you never want to run out of.  All in all, he's ours now so we just as well give him time on the strong side.

[mvbighead]

 Hahahahaha!

 Freeney was old and Mathis was always weak against the run. AND we had no Depth at pass Rusher so developing Hughes was a HUGE need. Good grief!

 When those guys missed a game the previous season, we through out their Your Boys Josh Thomas, Keyunta Dawson.

 And when Hughes did play his 3rd season he played fairly well with one less sack than Freeney and had 41 tackles to Dwights 12.

 Freeney`s last 2 season 20 games 12 tackles 4 sacks.

 Hughes -32 games 99 tackles 19.5 sacks. Doesn`t this make you feel ____ bla

 

Wow, can you be a little more condescending?

 

As far as I am concerned, when your top two pass rushers are Freeney and Mathis, with both still being under contract, it simply doesn't make sense to draft a DE with your top pick.  We needed depth.  And when you use your first round pick, when he doesn't see time on the field, everything he does gets thrown under a microscope.

 

Flip that situation and look at a guy like Newsome.  A 5th round pick make solid contributions his first year.  He has little to nothing expected of him as he doesn't have a lofty draft status.  He would have been the perfect type of developmental prospect behind Mathis/Freeney.

 

All I am getting at is using a 1st round selection on ANY player, you better have a realistic possibility that that player has a chance to start in less then 2-3 seasons.  Hughes NEVER had that.  Werner did, but he simply didn't overwhelm anyone.  All in all, Dorsett has a realistic chance to start or at least see a serious amount of playing time over the next 2-3 years.  If Johnson proves to lack separation ability, we can use Johnson as a chain mover and Dorsett as a field stretcher.  All in all, I see Grigson drafting guys that have a chance to start, at some point.

[Dark Superman]

My point is that Werner should be dominating against backup players.. and he's not.

[RockThatBlue]

My point is that Werner should be dominating against backup players.. and he's not.

I actually thought he did ok last week. No major mistakes that I recall and him tipping that pass was probably the best play our defense made last week.

[BOTT]

I do think Werner had to be a BPA.  He was simply rated far too high early in the process, and many were surprised he slipped as far as he did.  Personally, I just figure he was too slow to be a Mathis type of pass rusher.  Granted, as others have pointed out there are a number of players who have overcome lack of elite athleticism (Barwin, etc).

 

I dunno that we had a MAJOR need at OLB, what with the availability of Walden and Mathis, but pass rusher is something you never want to run out of.  All in all, he's ours now so we just as well give him time on the strong side.

People make the Connor Barwin comparison because he is white. If you compare their combine results, Barwin smokes Werner in ever category. Running a 4.66 with a 40 in vertical isn't exactly unathletic.

[Gavin]

If we are talking combine measurable Barwin is a bad comparison, A much more appropriate(closer)comparison is Paul Kruger. Werners issue is not a lack of acceleration or bend around the corner or strength even, His issue is technique and hand fighting...Getting stuck on blocks. With all that said Paul Kruger had a really good last year in only his second year as a full time starter, Werner has only been starting for 1 year and was benched....Players need time to develop technique in game situations, It usually don't happen in 1 year

[Superman]

If we are talking combine measurable Barwin is a bad comparison, A much more appropriate(closer)comparison is Paul Kruger. Werners issue is not a lack of acceleration or bend around the corner or strength even, His issue is technique and hand fighting...Getting stuck on blocks

 

As a pass rusher, his issue is lack of burst/acceleration, lack of bend, and that other stuff. 

 

As a Sam, most of that is immaterial 80% of the time. The position switch is only logical. He'll be a good Sam. Too bad we drafted him in the first round. 

[Gavin]

As a pass rusher, his issue is lack of burst/acceleration, lack of bend, and that other stuff. 

 

As a Sam, most of that is immaterial 80% of the time. The position switch is only logical. He'll be a good Sam. Too bad we drafted him in the first round. 

I know he don't have Jerry Hughes or Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis like burst but neither does Paul Kruger, He don't have great bend either compared to Freeney/Mathis or Hughes, I mean if it was me would have drafted a more athletic pass rusher but I cant really fault Werner

[Superman]

I know he don't have Jerry Hughes or Dwight Freeney or Robert Mathis like burst but neither does Paul Kruger, He don't have great bend either compared to Freeney/Mathis or Hughes, I mean if it was me would have drafted a more athletic pass rusher but I cant really fault Werner

 

Kruger has better technique and hands. But he's the proper athletic comparison to Werner, much better than Barwin. He's the exception to the 'unathletic pass rushers don't do well' rule. And before the second half of 2012, Kruger wasn't a productive pass rusher either. Maybe a good reason not to write off Werner after just two seasons...

[John Dee]

Sure lets release Werner and let Rex pick him up and turn him into a "productive player" ... 

 

This staff needs to think out side the box...   I get the jist of their mentality with the Trent fiasco...     They refuse to get creative...  Lets hope this changes...   or coaching staff will..   

 

There is talent on this team but one must know how to utilze it...    

 

The time is now.     This O is ready...      D?     Go Blitz crazy cant hurt...   if the standard D unit can't get it done.  

 

We will see.   Week one against Buffalo is huge.  

[Gavin]

Kruger has better technique and hands. But he's the proper athletic comparison to Werner, much better than Barwin. He's the exception to the 'unathletic pass rushers don't do well' rule. And before the second half of 2012, Kruger wasn't a productive pass rusher either. Maybe a good reason not to write off Werner after just two seasons...

"Kruger has better technique and hands."

 

That was my whole point, He needs time to develop in game situations beyond 1 year starting and benching him, I mean his rookie year he only saw roughly 306 defensive snaps on the season (23.5 a game considering he missed 3 games)...He did see significantly more in 2014 (according to the football media website 747 defensive snaps....49.8 average per game)...But still only 1 year...Now I know a player can work on that in practice and get it down in practice but doing it in a game is different then being able to do it in practice