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IndyD4U

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Posted · Hidden by Nadine, July 30, 2015 - political
Hidden by Nadine, July 30, 2015 - political

Good news is NY judge is a liberal who often rules in favor of the employee over the employer so Brady may have lucked out regardless. He was not going to get Doty in MN anyways ...

 

Good news and liberal in the same sentence? :funny:

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"US" means Patriots fans. And let me tell you, Patriots fans aren't the majority so Brady can continue to be the "GOAT" in yours and Patriots fans eyes but to the rest of the rationale world, he is not. Again, you can deflect to what others have done but you are missing one vital piece. In trying to compare what other cheating organizations/players have done, you are grouping the Patriots and Brady in with them as cheaters. Good day.

 

Not to hijack this thread but will just say one point and that is more than just pats fans that think that Brady is the GOAT discussion.   You can try to hide under a rock or something, but to think that only east of the Hudson river only house folks that recognize Brady's accomplishment and to what level, if any, are mitigated by cheating, you are sorely mistaken.  Accept if for what it is.  Good day.

 

Now lets get back to the NFL and NFLPA petitions.

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You have to love how seconds after it is announced that the case will be held in New York that people have all the information on who the judge will be and which way he is likely to rule. Literally anything can be turned into a positive if you just believe hard enough, and also believe every spurious little piece of information can confirms what you want to be true.

 

The world is a magical place.

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Good news is NY judge is a liberal who often rules in favor of the employee over the employer so Brady may have lucked out regardless. He was not going to get Doty in MN anyways ...

If its such good news, why did the PA try to file in Minnesota?

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The next thing will be the ouster of the union heads by the members

i doubt that. While they might not like Brady because they view him as a cheater at the end of the day it's unions job to represent amy member if they feel they are being treated unfairly which is what they are doing.
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If its such good news, why did the PA try to file in Minnesota?

Same as the NFL, perceived better venue but it may have back fired as the PA did not get Doty as they had hoped but a conservative MN judge. This NY judge has a history of ruling in favor of employees. We will see ...

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Good news is NY judge is a liberal who often rules in favor of the employee over the employer so Brady may have lucked out regardless. He was not going to get Doty in MN anyways ...

 

Well a couple of things.  The Pederson decision decided in the MN court is not binding on the NY court, but the later could certainly use it as 2ndary authority and my guess is that the NY court will, if the case stays in NY.   As the MN judge transferred the case to NY citing the locates of Brady (Massachusetts) and NFL (NY) as more proper venues for the action (Pederson play for the MN Vikings so the MN venue made sense), not sure if the NFLPA will appeal.

 

In the end of the day it still comes down to the four corners of the CBA and associated NFL policies/documents cited in the NFLPA petition.  And after reading the same I am not as concerned where the case is heard.  if the NY could comes out with a finding that is opposite of the MN, then we would have a split in the circuits and likely the NFLPA would appeal and it may end up in the Supreme Court to resolved the split in the circuits. 

 

My humble guess is that the NY court will not go rogue and would look to the decision by the MN court in the Pederson case and will follow the same unless the later is deemed to be too far out of whack.

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You do realize that every single time a QB comes within even a country mile of some of Brady's achievements, he will be mentioned much like Montana was before him? His records stand as much as you want to see them fade. Every single QB will be chasing him forever ...

 

Are you talking about specific records, or merely SB wins? I can think of at least one particular QB that has more records.

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Well a couple of things.  The Pederson decision decided in the MN court is not binding on the NY court, but the later could certainly use it as 2ndary authority and my guess is that the NY court will, if the case stays in NY.   As the MN judge transferred the case to NY citing the locates of Brady (Massachusetts) and NFL (NY) as more proper venues for the action (Pederson play for the MN Vikings so the MN venue made sense), not sure if the NFLPA will appeal.

 

In the end of the day it still comes down to the four corners of the CBA and associated NFL policies/documents cited in the NFLPA petition.  And after reading the same I am not as concerned where the case is heard.  if the NY could comes out with a finding that is opposite of the MN, then we would have a split in the circuits and likely the NFLPA would appeal and it may end up in the Supreme Court to resolved the split in the circuits. 

 

My humble guess is that the NY court will not go rogue and would look to the decision by the MN court in the Pederson case and will follow the same unless the later is deemed to be too far out of whack.

Yeah, that is my thinking too. Although so many twists and turns who knows. But after reading the complaint filed by the PA I feel pretty good that Brady has a strong case especially with Peterson as precedent here. And the judge being a liberal helps.

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You should read the NFLPA petition.  Seriously.   It kind of long, but it is a good read.

 

Btw I love your new avatar.  :)

I have read some of it...   I've also read the NFL's.     I just don't see a Federal Court Judge ruling against the NFL.  Sorry.

 

and thanks for the comment on my avatar.  :)

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Same as the NFL, perceived better venue but it may have back fired as the PA did not get Doty as they had hoped but a conservative MN judge. This NY judge has a history of ruling in favor of employees. We will see ...

The NFL offices are in Manhattan. It made sense for them to file their. Unlike the PA who filed in a state that made zero sense other than trying to get a favorable judge. If their case is as strong as you people claim, why not file in Boston?

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You should read the NFLPA petition.  Seriously.   It kind of long, but it is a good read.

 

Btw I love your new avatar.  :)

Kessler just said "It doesn't matter where the case is. We're very confident in our position."

Not that I would expect him to say anything different. But it's true. They have a good case.

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*Deep breath* And here we go!

 

More like, "the pats win too much, let's even the playing field a bit."

Yes, that's exactly the narrative here.  Also, the government is hiding aliens, the moon landing never happened, and vaccines cause autism.

[/illogicalconspiracytheories]

Does that even make a little bit of sense to you?  The Pats win too much, so let's even the playing field?  The Colts, Packers, Steelers, and Ravens have also won quite a bit in the last few years, but none of those teams are receiving penalties to "even the playing field"

 

Right because as Kraft said this was NEVER about doing what was right or fair but appeasing Roger's ego and the other 31 owners ... a complete sham from day one.

Yes, and Robert Kraft doesn't have any sort of bias in this situation.  Let's just think about this logically for one second.  Wells Report has some very strong scientific evidence + Brady doesn't give his phone to the investigators despite assurances that nothing other than the text messages of interest would be looked at + Brady destroys the phone even though he knew it was requested by the investigators.  Does that really paint a picture of innocence?  What does Roger have to gain by doing this?  If anything, the thing that would favour the league most would be to have no conspiracies or "black eyes".  In a perfect world, from the league's perspective, no one cheats and the league doesn't receive a lot of bad press.

 

Really? 2 violations in 8 years is too much? Pats are also among the least fined and penalized team in the NFL as well. But don't let the facts get in the way of a fabricated narrative. This is about parity. Has been from day one ...

2 violations of cheating in 8 years, one of which resulted in one of the largest fines in NFL history, and the other resulted in the suspension of a Super Bowl winning* quarterback for 4 games.  No other team in the league comes anywhere close to that.  To be honest, is there another team in the 4 major North American pro sports leagues that comes anywhere near that?

 

As a blind Patriots supporter, I don't expect you to show any objectivity in regards to this issue.  But if you actually look at the process and what evidence was looked at, the league did a very good job of remaining impartial during the entire process.  But don't let the facts get in the way of a fabricated narrative.

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And also zero rings too. LOL. This will the smallest of small footnotes for Brady. Especially when he adds ring #5 ... :)

And also zero rings too. LOL. This will the smallest of small footnotes for Brady. Especially when he adds ring #5 ... :)

Except the big black cloud of being dishonest and a cheater will hang above his little head. His integrity will bu under question. You can have all the hardware you want, but when it's gonna be questioned with what integrity you played the game on top of it. It dulls things tremendously...maybe not to Brady of course. But to people of Charter and integrity it does big time!!!! His reputation likely ruined!!!

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Right because as Kraft said this was NEVER about doing what was right or fair but appeasing Roger's ego and the other 31 owners ... a complete sham from day one.

I think it was you that said that.   you are confusing what you said with what Kraft said

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And do you realize that the suspension may stand and that will not change his status as the GOAT Qb* of his generation and most accomplished QB of the SB era**?

*Of those who cheated to gain a competitive advantage

**In terms of accomplishments gained through cheating

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One small aside, for all these people pointing at what the NFLPA are saying as if it's some indication of the strength of Brady's case, they do realise this is what a Union does right? They will fight the league over almost anything no matter whether it's morally or factually right. I mean they've stood by drug addicts, domestic abusers... plain old cheaters is small time for them. 

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I have read some of it...   I've also read the NFL's.     I just don't see a Federal Court Judge ruling against the NFL.  Sorry.

 

and thanks for the comment on my avatar.   :)

 

Okay, great.

 

Oh, do you have a link to the NFL's? :) .  Would love see.  I tried googling it yesterday but could not find it, but did not spend a great deal of time on it either.  If its too much work to get the link I will look again on my end.  Thanks. 

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There is an issue with tying Adrian Peterson as well. The NFL appealed Doty's decision to overturn an arbitrators ruling. This based upn decisions handed down from the Supreme Court of the U.S. that district courts should not interfere with proceddings and rulings in arbitration casess.

*** NFLPA better have an extremely strong case that NFL was totally out of kilter. This is how the Supreme court of the United States feels about judges overturning an Arbitration case ruling-

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 5 - 3 Thursday (June 2013) that courts can't overturn a class arbitration waiver simply becauseit would cost plaintiffs more to arbitrate the claim than they could possibly recover. Here, attorneys tell Law360 why this ruling is significant.Alden Atkins, Vinson & Elkins LLP "The Supreme Court is sending a strong message that courts should not interfere with arbitration agreements and arbitration decisions. The court held in [AT&T Mobility LLCv. Concepcion] and again today in [American Express Co. v. Italian Colors Restaurant] that parties can define for themselves the procedures for an arbitration, and those agreements should be upheld in the face of arguments challenging the fairness of neutral provisions. When combined with the recent [Oxford Health Plans LLC v. Sutter] decision, which upheld an arbitrator's questionable decision, the Supreme Court is telling lower courts not to interfere with the arbitration process."

This is a major reason I believe Goodell / NFL will ultimately prevail in their appeal over Judge Doty's decision overturning of Adrian Peterson's punishment by the league.

Harold Henderson was appointed arbiter, and the CBA totally allows for Goodell to do that. ***

Brady's case was in in house case, and Goodell was the Arbitrator for the case, and the CBA lawfully allows this. The legal battles to be fought are nasty now. And it is beyond the point for win-win. Now it is big win, huge loss territory. Which really leans loss-loss. No matter what happens now.

Something ALOT of Pats fans don't seem to get. The chance this even gets heard or messed with is very slim!!!! Courts DON'T wanna or like to mess with arbitration hearings.

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Really? 2 violations in 8 years is too much? Pats are also among the least fined and penalized team in the NFL as well. But don't let the facts get in the way of a fabricated narrative. This is about parity. Has been from day one ...

 

That is the 2nd most ridiculously stupid claim I've read during this entire deflategate issue...only thing that tops it is the whole "the deflator is just a guy on a diet, derp"

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Patriots fans claiming there is no evidence, overlook the destroyed cell phone. The destroyed cell phone is evidence. There is no reason an arbitrator shouldn't look at a destroyed cellphone, on or around the day the investigators said they would need to see it, in the worst possible light.

Even if Brady is telling the truth, after first lying about destroying it. Even if it did just break, he knew they wanted to see contents of his text messages. He still would have a SIM card, where the text messsages could be retrieved. If he would then stand fast to his proclamation that he wouldn't show them anything so personal, instead of destroying it, he may have been able to get a court to disqualify his text messages. But, by destroying any trace of them, he left the arbitrator no choice but to conclude he destroyed the phone to cover up incriminating information about this case.

Oh dear god .

Are you serious?

As a member of the Union, Brady NEVER would have given up his phone.

But you are missing the most important part:

TED WELLS SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT THE PHONE.

How's that for ending the "cell phone" red herring?!

Ted Wells himself said that Brady didn't have to hand over his phone !!!!!!!!!!!

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One small aside, for all these people pointing at what the NFLPA are saying as if it's some indication of the strength of Brady's case, they do realise this is what a Union does right? They will fight the league over almost anything no matter whether it's morally or factually right. I mean they've stood by drug addicts, domestic abusers... plain old cheaters is small time for them. 

 

It is my understanding of the NFLPA petition, and again I read it late last night, is as follows and in short:

 

Per the CBA, which he NFL agreed to by signing it, the type of offense which Brady is being charged with is not something that he can be suspended, but only fined.

 

Per the CBA, and associated NFL documents and policies, the rule prohibiting tampering of balls in the Game Operation Manual (which is the one about the 25k fine or more), only applies to teams and not players.   So here Brady can not be sanctioned under this rule but the Patriots can.

 

As the NFL did not follow this above, the suspension should be vacated.

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Don't forget the Pats getting rid of the equipment managers

Untrue. The NFL told the Patriots to suspend them.

By the way, another major point: Ted Eells interviewed both guys for the Wells Report.

Both completely denied doing anything wrong .

So tell me, Colts fans: why didn't Wells include that in his whole report? He never mentioned those two, even though he interviewed them.

Hmmmmm....

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Something ALOT of Pats fans don't seem to get. The chance this even gets heard or messed with is very slim!!!! Courts DON'T wanna or like to mess with arbitration hearings.

 

Perhaps not, but they want to make sure that parties follow any agreement, namely the CBA, that they sign.  If a party signed an agreement definition rights and duties of the signing parties and one party does not follow what their duty is or oversteps the what his rights and what the party can do, a court can step in to make sure that the offending party is complying with the agreement. 

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Oh dear god .

Are you serious?

As a member of the Union, Brady NEVER would have given up his phone.

But you are missing the most important part:

TED WELLS SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT THE PHONE.

How's that for ending the "cell phone" red herring?!

Ted Wells himself said that Brady didn't have to hand over his phone !!!!!!!!!!!

But he did want relevant text messages. He didn't give them

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Untrue. The NFL told the Patriots to suspend them.

By the way, another major point: Ted Eells interviewed both guys for the Wells Report.

Both completely denied doing anything wrong .

So tell me, Colts fans: why didn't Wells include that in his whole report? He never mentioned those two, even though he interviewed them.

Hmmmmm....

??? he mentioned them both several times. Clearly you didn't read the report

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Oh dear god .

Are you serious?

As a member of the Union, Brady NEVER would have given up his phone.

But you are missing the most important part:

TED WELLS SAID THAT HE DIDN'T WANT THE PHONE.

How's that for ending the "cell phone" red herring?!

Ted Wells himself said that Brady didn't have to hand over his phone !!!!!!!!!!!

Hey what's a gauge?

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