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Broncos and John Fox Parting Ways


SilentHill

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Move on to what? They have a lot invested in this team

..They're not going to blow it up after one year.

Remember./most of the defense was not in Denver in 2013...

the big shadow is Mike Shanahan....Elway's old coach and a guy Peyton respects

Shanahan is out, I assure you of that. 

 

""Former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan, who has interviewed for several head coaching jobs in recent weeks, is not a candidate.~ Per Denver Post"

 

Manning's career is over, and if anyone thinks these extreme coaching "moves" aren't directly linked to the aforementioned and impending retirement of #18, they are sorely mistaken. 

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I don't think that Peyton is retiring. Earlier this season he said he planned to play out his contract...last night he said he needed time. That's probably to see what all his rehab for his torn quad will require etc.   People act like he's a washed up old has been...they forget that he had the best statistical season EVER by a QB, last year and was leading in nearly every QB statistic THIS year, before he suffered what is now known to be a serious injury.

 

And why do people think that a new coaching staff means he's done?  Him and Fox butted heads several times, and rumors are that they did not see eye to eye.  As for replacements?  I think Kubiak would be a great replacement.  People forget that Peyton's first choice, once cut from Indy, was to go to Houston (but they decided to stick with Schaub instead, at that time)...Kubiak was the coach at Houston then and Wade Phillips was the DC...   In my opinion, they should hire Kubiak as the Head Coach and let him call his own plays, much like McCarthy does in Green Bay...and then bring in Phillips as the new DC. He has a proven record of improving defenses everywhere he goes, and Denver definitely has the talent.   I honestly think that the biggest thing that's held Denver back the past 3 years has been the soft coaching style.

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Shanahan is out, I assure you of that. 

 

""Former Broncos coach Mike Shanahan, who has interviewed for several head coaching jobs in recent weeks, is not a candidate.~ Per Denver Post

"

 

Manning's career is over, and if anyone thinks these extreme coaching "moves" aren't directly linked to the aforementioned and impending retirement of #18, they are sorely mistaken.

Many have said that Manning was done every year for 4 years now..

Its an easy prediction because it has to happen eventually..

..lets wait until it happens..

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we all said they were all-in...I guess they are..

But they have a very strong team....several all-pros...many of whom came to Denver to play with Manning..

He'll finish his contract..,

Mark, they just blew the whole thing up. New coaches means new players. I don't think Manning would be in for this type of change. Elway basically just admitted that these last three years were a failure ... you think Manning wants to go through a whole org change right now??

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we all said they were all-in...I guess they are..

But they have a very strong team....several all-pros...many of whom came to Denver to play with Manning..

He'll finish his contract..,

 

Good to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Peyton will finish the 2 years left on his deal and then retire.   Most people quickly forget that before he tore his freakin' quad...which is the largest muscle in the human body...the was leading the NFL in yards and touchdown passes...  he also had a deep bone bruise on his OTHER leg...so for all the "lack of arm strength" posts made, he must have a pretty strong arm in all actuality, when you consider the fact that he made all of his throws the past month plus, with ONLY his arm, since he wasn't really able to use leg strength on a torn muscle.

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Vic Lombardi is reporting with Fox gone Manning is more inclined to stay.

Strange, I would never imagine Peyton as a guy to not support his coaches. Heck even with Caldwell he didn't stray from the path.

Elway was apparently irate at the coaching staff.

Also the whole staff wasn't fired, but no ones job is safe. Manning and Gase are reportedly "very close" so if Manning stays, which Lombardi reported he is more inclined to without Fox, Gase probably will stay. Kubiak and Gase are "reported" early front runners. However I think Elway wants a culture shock to this team, and hire someone with a pair.

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Mark, they just blew the whole thing up. New coaches means new players. I don't think Manning would be in for this type of change. Elway basically just admitted that these last three years were a failure ... you think Manning wants to go through a whole org change right now??

 

Not when you have a franchise QB. Kaepernick isn't going anywhere; Ryan isn't going anywhere. I understand Manning is coming to the end of his career, but cleaning house doesn't mean you push your All-Everything QB out the door, not if you think he can still produce. 

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Mark, they just blew the whole thing up. New coaches means new players. I don't think Manning would be in for this type of change. Elway basically just admitted that these last three years were a failure ... you think Manning wants to go through a whole org change right now??

 

Changing coaching staffs doesn't mean that they "blew the whole thing up" and are starting over! lol   Did Indy "blow it up" and get all new players, when they hired Tony Dungy?  Did Oakland "blow it up" and get all new players when they hired Gruden?  Did Tampa blow it all up when they hired Gruden? No? Hmm...but I DO recall both of those coaches going to and winning a Super Bowl!   :thmup:      Sometimes the talent is there on both sides of the ball, but you have to find the right coach to get them over the hump!

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Vic Lombardi is reporting with Fox gone Manning is more inclined to stay.

Strange, I would never imagine Peyton as a guy to not support his coaches. Heck even with Caldwell he didn't stray from the path.

Elway was apparently irate at the coaching staff.

Also the whole staff wasn't fired, but no ones job is safe. Manning and Gase are reportedly "very close" so if Manning stays, which Lombardi reported he is more inclined to without Fox, Gase probably will stay. Kubiak and Gase are "reported" early front runners. However I think Elway wants a culture shock to this team, and hire someone with a pair.

 

To the bolded, he only played for Caldwell for two seasons. The third year -- which would coincide with 2014 for the Broncos -- he had bigger issues to deal with. 

 

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to nameless, faceless rumors, but if Manning and Fox didn't quite see eye to eye, then I don't think Fox's dismissal really affects Manning's decision moving forward.

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Not when you have a franchise QB. Kaepernick isn't going anywhere; Ryan isn't going anywhere. I understand Manning is coming to the end of his career, but cleaning house doesn't mean you push your All-Everything QB out the door, not if you think he can still produce. 

No. I don't think Denver is going to get rid of Manning. My point was that Manning would not want to go thru this type of change. I believe that is why he said he was thinking about retirement yesterday. Not because of his health but because of the org change.

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No. I don't think Denver is going to get rid of Manning. My point was that Manning would not want to go thru this type of change. I believe that is why he said he was thinking about retirement yesterday. Not because of his health but because of the org change.

 

It's all conjecture at this point. You said yesterday that you believe Manning and Fox had beef; I don't see why you'd think that Manning leaving would be tied to Fox getting fired.

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No. I don't think Denver is going to get rid of Manning. My point was that Manning would not want to go thru this type of change. I believe that is why he said he was thinking about retirement yesterday. Not because of his health but because of the org change.

I think his "thinking about it" response had more to do with the severe injury he was playing with, that none of us knew about... I feel that a coaching change would benefit him, not hurt him...I think that they have a good mix of young talent with some pro bowl vets that need a stronger minded coach than what Fox had to offer

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If they offer him the HC job, it wouldn't be a lateral move

 

He's refusing to even interview for a HC job, for some reason.  Unless ties to Broncos and Elway's persuasion can make him change his mind, he is staying in Baltimore.  He feels he's helping build something great there.

 

“It is flattering and humbling to be invited to interview for a number of NFL head coaching positions, and I greatly appreciate these opportunities,” Kubiak said in a statement. “But I have decided to stay with the Ravens."

“This is a special organization and we, like [Head] Coach [John] Harbaugh says, are building something great. I want to be a part of that and contribute in whatever ways I can.”

 

There you have it.

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It's all conjecture at this point. You said yesterday that you believe Manning and Fox had beef; I don't see why you'd think that Manning leaving would be tied to Fox getting fired.

Not a beef but a difference in philosophy. But I think seeing the staff being ushered out is not something Manning would want to deal with right now. He is so meticulous with his preparation. Remember he took his time in selecting Denver and he did so in large part because of his relationship with Elway. I think this type of house cleaning may be enough for him to say good-bye as it will take a lot of work this off-season to get on the same page with the new group coming in assuming he likes whoever Elway chooses to bring in.

 

But you are right just conjecture but that is what these forums are for, right? ;)

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To the bolded, he only played for Caldwell for two seasons. The third year -- which would coincide with 2014 for the Broncos -- he had bigger issues to deal with.

I don't pay a whole lot of attention to nameless, faceless rumors, but if Manning and Fox didn't quite see eye to eye, then I don't think Fox's dismissal really affects Manning's decision moving forward.

True about Caldwell. However, in '09 Peyton wasn't happy about being pulled when he was seen on the sidelines. He also was confused about the timeout in '10. But when it came to the interviews Manning said he full supported him, and nothing ever became a rumor. Just body language on the sideline would say differently.

However if Manning and Fox didn't agree, and now with his dismissal why would you believe it doesn't have any affect on Manning moving forward? Unless I read that wrong.

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True about Caldwell. However, in '09 Peyton wasn't happy about being pulled when he was seen on the sidelines. He also was confused about the timeout in '10. But when it came to the interviews Manning said he full supported him, and nothing ever became a rumor. Just body language on the sideline would say differently.

However if Manning and Fox didn't agree, and now with his dismissal why would you believe it doesn't have any affect on Manning moving forward? Unless I read that wrong.

 

About Fox and Manning, my point was that if they weren't on the same page, then Fox getting fired doesn't make Manning less likely to keep playing. 

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Not a beef but a difference in philosophy. But I think seeing the staff being ushered out is not something Manning would want to deal with right now. He is so meticulous with his preparation. Remember he took his time in selecting Denver and he did so in large part because of his relationship with Elway. I think this type of house cleaning may be enough for him to say good-bye as it will take a lot of work this off-season to get on the same page with the new group coming in assuming he likes whoever Elway chooses to bring in.

 

But you are right just conjecture but that is what these forums are for, right? ;)

 

Ehh, that's one way of looking at it. The other angle is that a) Manning wasn't exactly thrilled with Fox to begin with, and now Fox is gone; and b) Manning enjoys consuming football knowledge, preparing, studying, etc. So working with a new staff -- without having to switch teams, of course -- would be a new challenge and maybe reinvigorate him to keep going. He's always said that once he doesn't enjoy the preparation, that's when he knows it's time. Working with a new staff definitely wouldn't be stale.

 

I'm content to wait and see what Manning does in the coming days and weeks. I've been operating under the assumption that Elway would be approaching him about a pay reduction this offseason anyways. Now they have other fish to fry, and Manning needs to figure out if he can be all-in with a new head coach, and potentially an entirely new coaching staff, and determine if he wants to try to get through an entire season and the physical demands that comes with.

 

We'll see...

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Ehh, that's one way of looking at it. The other angle is that a) Manning wasn't exactly thrilled with Fox to begin with, and now Fox is gone; and b) Manning enjoys consuming football knowledge, preparing, studying, etc. So working with a new staff -- without having to switch teams, of course -- would be a new challenge and maybe reinvigorate him to keep going. He's always said that once he doesn't enjoy the preparation, that's when he knows it's time. Working with a new staff definitely wouldn't be stale.

 

I'm content to wait and see what Manning does in the coming days and weeks. I've been operating under the assumption that Elway would be approaching him about a pay reduction this offseason anyways. Now they have other fish to fry, and Manning needs to figure out if he can be all-in with a new head coach, and potentially an entirely new coaching staff, and determine if he wants to try to get through an entire season and the physical demands that comes with.

 

We'll see...

Yes. Manning is a maniac in terms of preparation. So he has to be all in mentally. You know, something changed mid-season with the team. They went from the best team in the AFC to a shadow of itself by season's end. Not sure if it was due to dissension with Elway and the coaches. It is starting to look that way or if it was Manning's health. But things took a sharp turn mid-season. Looks like they are sorting it out now with Manning being the biggest piece in terms of whether he stays or goes.

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About Fox and Manning, my point was that if they weren't on the same page, then Fox getting fired doesn't make Manning less likely to keep playing.

Oh, okay. Yeah, I don't believe the letting go of Fox means Manning leaves. Like Lombardi "reported" it is the opposite.

It's all down to what Manning wants, truthfully. Elway will let him decide. If Manning thinks he can contribute and lead a winning team he will play. Manning isn't one to make rash decisions because of depressed/hurt feelings. If he was he probably would have retire early in his career when he was so broken by playoff losses he went hunting and disappeared for weeks, according to Cooper that is what Peyton did.

I think Peyton has the fire still. The flesh may not be able to, but that is just because he is 39. He played bad yesterday, no denying that injury or not. Although the thigh injury is an explanation for a drop in production. Much more than the notion he just hit the end.

In short if Manning believes he can play at a productive level he will, and John Elway probably wants that. He just built a team full of talent. He wants a championship badly, and currently a healthy Manning is the best man for the job. Elway knows that, he isn't going to start from scratch already. Unless he has to.

He just wants an aggressive team bottom line, and Fox didn't provide that. Elway has been mad at this staff since the 2013 preseason.

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Yes. Manning is a maniac in terms of preparation. So he has to be all in mentally. You know, something changed mid-season with the team. They went from the best team in the AFC to a shadow of itself by season's end. Not sure if it was due to dissension with Elway and the coaches. It is starting to look that way or if it was Manning's health. But things took a sharp turn mid-season. Looks like they are sorting it out now with Manning being the biggest piece in terms of whether he stays or goes.

 

I think they sort of coasted through the second half of the season, especially after the loss to the Pats. Chris Harris said something about how the entire season feels like a waste of time. Kind of strikes me as though they thought they'd automatically be back in the Super Bowl with a chance to redeem themselves. They gave up 37 points to the Bengals, a team that could hardly move the ball against the Colts, in two separate games.

 

They also had a lot of injuries, lots of LBs missed time, constant RB shuffling, Manning's injury, Sanders, Welker, JT, Demaryius had a couple no-shows...

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The Denver Post says: Fox wanted more control over the roster..among other things..

Elway didn't like the way the team prepared for the playoffs.....and after bye weeks...

They disagreed.....all asstanst are not fired but are free to look elsewhere..

It is assumed that Adam gase and Jack Del Rio will take head coaching hjobs..

That fact..plus the Jay Glazer report that Fox 'could be available' translated..he was looking to get out

..sparked an Elway-Fox meeting that ended in a split.

No word on whether Peyton Manning had anything to say..but this change doesn't say anything about whether he's retiring or will finiih his contract..//The bust up apparently didnt have anything to do with Peyton

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He's refusing to even interview for a HC job, for some reason.  Unless ties to Broncos and Elway's persuasion can make him change his mind, he is staying in Baltimore.  He feels he's helping build something great there.

 

“It is flattering and humbling to be invited to interview for a number of NFL head coaching positions, and I greatly appreciate these opportunities,” Kubiak said in a statement. “But I have decided to stay with the Ravens."

“This is a special organization and we, like [Head] Coach [John] Harbaugh says, are building something great. I want to be a part of that and contribute in whatever ways I can.”

 

There you have it.

That was all said before today..

Elway and Kubiak were teammates....stay tuned..that may change

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Mark, they just blew the whole thing up. New coaches means new players. I don't think Manning would be in for this type of change. Elway basically just admitted that these last three years were a failure ... you think Manning wants to go through a whole org change right now??

They didn't blow anything up..They fired the coach and the co-ordinators were leaving anyway.

Manning has a 5-year deal..he came back from a serious neck issue which forced him to move and change teams..

..you think he'll quit over a leg injury and a coaching change?. ..

I know you know Denver has a dozen players under significant money deals...Your guy Talib isn't going anywhere. Or Ware..Or Ward. Clady..Chris Harris...Trevethan, Marshall, Vasquez, Demariyus...They are not going anywhere.

...This team was 6-0 in their division....they aren't tearing up the team..makes no sense

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They didn't blow anything up..They fired the coach and the co-ordinators were leaving anyway.

Manning has a 5-year deal..he came back from a serious neck issue which forced him to move and change teams..

..you think he'll quit over a leg injury and a coaching change?. ..

I know you know Denver has a dozen players under significant money deals...Your guy Talib isn't going anywhere. Or Ware..Or Ward. Clady..Chris Harris...Trevethan, Marshall, Vasquez, Demariyus...They are not going anywhere.

...This team was 6-0 in their division....they aren't tearing up the team..makes no sense

Personally, I feel like so many Colts fans and also fans of other teams (especially the Patriots) have WANTED Peyton to be done and retire for three seasons now...and this is just another chance for them to hope the time is now.  I don't believe it is. I think that as long as he's able to make a full recovery from his quad tear, he will be back among the best QBs in the NFL, next season...and with the right coach calling the shots, next year's Denver team very well could be the best TEAM that they've had, since Peyton got there.   Sure they may lose some guys...but they have a LOT of talent under contract and also returning from injury...the right leader, with some real fire instead of the soft Fox approach, could work wonders for making them a real "team", instead of a roster with lots of talent on both sides of the ball.

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Regardless, I think Peyton is hanging it up most likely, IMO.

 

It sure felt like it after this loss to me Chad. I can't lie. It's how I read the tea leafs man. Yes, I know my beliefs or interpretations are usually wrong. 

The anti-Fox. I'm sure Elway would want that change around. Denver has been flat and uninspired. That falls on the coach, and Rex wouldn't ever let his team be like that. I'm sure he is looking for a great leader. Rex is really the only one that fits that description.

I think he would have.

Yes, FX makes a good point here. Rex inspires guys. John Fox? Not so much. Yes, I know. I initially thought Fox's defensive pedigree in Carolina would work in Denver. I was wrong & yes SW1 will own that. 

 

Why in hades did Rex go to Buffalo? To stay in NY? I'm still confused over that move. I'm happy for fan Buffalo34 though. Your team will compete now & still give NE a run for it's money. Sorry Tommy. 

 

Was he offered the Bears job, but he refused to work with Jay Cutler? If so, that makes perfect sense. LOL! 

 

I was going to contribute to the Ryan/Bills coaching thread, but it got locked down. Major Bummer. I will read through it though. 

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They didn't blow anything up..They fired the coach and the co-ordinators were leaving anyway.

Manning has a 5-year deal..he came back from a serious neck issue which forced him to move and change teams..

..you think he'll quit over a leg injury and a coaching change?. ..

I know you know Denver has a dozen players under significant money deals...Your guy Talib isn't going anywhere. Or Ware..Or Ward. Clady..Chris Harris...Trevethan, Marshall, Vasquez, Demariyus...They are not going anywhere.

...This team was 6-0 in their division....they aren't tearing up the team..makes no sense

It does if Elway spent all that money of Ware, Ward, Talib, & regressed from last season's success though OUM. Chargers will own the AFC West next year. Peyton's not taking on a new OC next season. 

 

Wes Welker will & should probably retire too in my estimation. Wes I have a ton of respect for you too man. You deserved at least 2 rings. Darn, you were an incredible WR. 

 

It was a spectacular career Manning. There's no shame in pursuing other interests & endeavors in your middle age Peyton. You've earned it. You have nothing to be ashamed of IMO. 

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http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/01/11/peytons-future-plunges-into-uncertainty/

 

"My intention is to play, but things have changed since I last said that.'” If Adam Gase departs Denver for a head coaching opportunity, I just can't see Manning returning. Who wants to learn a new playbook at his age? 

 

Personally, I think it's a film preparation question. Not that 18 can't do it; but does he want to go through another season again with a disappointing ending? After awhile, you just get tired of losing. 

 

I'm not intentionally trying to kick Manning after a tough loss, but he's not a young man anymore. Hades, Brett Favre went through the same thing in Minnesota. Mortality affects us all no exceptions even HOF QBs. 

 

Actually, if I'm being truthful, Brett was on the downside in week 8 with the Jets with a torn biceps tendon in 2008. Yes, he had a miraculous season with the Vikings 1 year later that's true, but the biceps tendon injury showed that Favre was no longer physically invincible & the iron man of old.  

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I think they sort of coasted through the second half of the season, especially after the loss to the Pats. Chris Harris said something about how the entire season feels like a waste of time. Kind of strikes me as though they thought they'd automatically be back in the Super Bowl with a chance to redeem themselves. They gave up 37 points to the Bengals, a team that could hardly move the ball against the Colts, in two separate games.

 

They also had a lot of injuries, lots of LBs missed time, constant RB shuffling, Manning's injury, Sanders, Welker, JT, Demaryius had a couple no-shows...

I was thinking about the Pats game vs Denver last night and I remember the week leading up to it a Denver reporter had called into one of our stations and of course predicted a Denver victory. But I remember him saying that the Broncos could lose a close game and it will be Ok as they do often struggle at Foxboro but that they could not get blown out. It was interesting as no one was predicting a blow out in that game on either side and the Pats completely dominated them. I do wonder if their psyche took a hit as they had talked all off-season about getting back and finishing the job and they certainly looked like the best team in football leading up to that game.

 

I also think losing in the SB the way they did takes it toll too. The pressure was immense on them this season after that loss and it is hard for some players to shake that. SB losers often have this type of season following that game.

 

But you are right. They dealt with a lot in terms of injuries but their season was really a tale of two halves.

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They didn't blow anything up..They fired the coach and the co-ordinators were leaving anyway.

Manning has a 5-year deal..he came back from a serious neck issue which forced him to move and change teams..

..you think he'll quit over a leg injury and a coaching change?. ..

I know you know Denver has a dozen players under significant money deals...Your guy Talib isn't going anywhere. Or Ware..Or Ward. Clady..Chris Harris...Trevethan, Marshall, Vasquez, Demariyus...They are not going anywhere.

...This team was 6-0 in their division....they aren't tearing up the team..makes no sense

You don't think changing the entire coaching staff is a big deal? And you also assume that new coaches are going to run things exactly as the old regime? Isn't the whole point of the change of staff to also change the approach? Isn't that why Elway is doing it?

 

I don't think any FA is safe right now. It all depends on who they hire as HC. While I don't foresee major changes as the team has many good players as you say, Elway would not have done this with the thought of keeping everything the same and that includes the players. 

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You don't think changing the entire coaching staff is a big deal? And you also assume that new coaches are going to run things exactly as the old regime? Isn't the whole point of the change of staff to also change the approach? Isn't that why Elway is doing it?

I don't think any FA is safe right now. It all depends on who they hire as HC. While I don't foresee major changes as the team has many good players as you say, Elway would not have done this with the thought of keeping everything the same and that includes the players.

Only Fox is gone. The rest of the staff didn't get fired. Gase could end up the coach

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From Klis at the Post, I think this sheds some light on some of the issues:

 

This locker room never formed a cohesive personality, which struck home with me when running back C.J. Anderson explained the offensive side of the ball was as buttoned-down as Manning, while the defense was a far wilder bunch. Uptight screws and loose nuts don't always mix. Maybe it should have been a cause for concern when cornerback Chris Harris confided that his teammates required months before finding the love for each other necessary to allow the Broncos to bring their "A" game with any consistency. And from the time that star place-kicker Matt Prater was unceremoniously cut, it seemed coach John Fox never entirely trusted his locker room to be focused on the championship prize.

 

What's Job One for Elway?

Stop playing fantasy football. Championship teams are about more than stockpiling talent and praying it all comes together on Sunday.

 

 

http://www.denverpost.com/kiszla/ci_27308220/kiszla-broncos-gm-john-elway-needs-change-blueprint

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