Predictability and Slow Sarts on offense

[Jay Kirk]

IMO the reason for the slow starts on offense is squarely on the shoulders of Pep. #1 Richardson starts # He calls runs with 8 stacked in the box. #3 Luck does not have Green light to read Ds and audible . This very often leaves us in an early hole. This hurts the Offense as well as the D. I think its high time we put this team in our Franchise QBs hands and let chips fall where they may , maybe he knows when and how to utilize our weapons ! Thoughts ?

[krunk]

It has been known for a while now that Luck has the ability to audible out of whatever play.  If he didn't he had his reasons, so I don't think the whole thing rides on Pep although I don't say that there aren't some improvements that Pep needs to make as well.

[Jay Kirk]

It has been known for a while now that Luck has the ability to audible out of whatever play.  If he didn't he had his reasons, so I don't think the whole thing rides on Pep although I don't say that there aren't some improvements that Pep needs to make as well.

One things for sure we cant keep stalling or 3 and outs for 3 or 4 series in a row and expect our D to be able to perform at a high level. This has been a real problem.

[Jay Kirk]

We need to go into Playoffs with momentum , not being stagnant.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Luck is just not as good at reading defenses as some people think or wish to believe (Peyton Manning syndrome). Many people think he is just this super intelligent physical freak with an iron will but I don't see it, not yet at least.

[Superman]

IMO the reason for the slow starts on offense is squarely on the shoulders of Pep. #1 Richardson starts # He calls runs with 8 stacked in the box. #3 Luck does not have Green light to read Ds and audible . This very often leaves us in an early hole. This hurts the Offense as well as the D. I think its high time we put this team in our Franchise QBs hands and let chips fall where they may , maybe he knows when and how to utilize our weapons ! Thoughts ?

 

1) Richardson didn't start on Sunday. Boom did, and it was 3rd and long.

 

2 and 3) These are connected, IMO. Luck has been checking out of run plays all season long, so I don't put the responsibility on Pep for running into heavy boxes. I think Sunday's game was a-typical. Furthermore, because Luck has been checking out of runs, we haven't been running into 8-man boxes. 

 

The slow starts lately have been about dropped passes, fumbles, interceptions, penalties, etc. Not playcalling. 

 

Pep isn't excused of all responsibility for some of the offensive issues, but he's also not to blame for the majority of it. Ironically, the very person to whom you want to give all the responsibility has been rather sloppy lately.

[Superman]

Luck is just not as good at reading defenses as some people think or wish to believe (Peyton Manning syndrome). Many people think he is just this super intelligent physical freak with an iron will but I don't see it, not yet at least.

 

Three years in, Manning wasn't directing the offense like people are used to seeing. 

 

Luck has definitely shown flashes, but this desire to hand the whole operation over to him is very premature, and obviously a byproduct of having Manning for so long.

[BrentMc11]

I feel we need to get back to being the number 1 offense in the league.  I refuse to go after the coaches.  Pep did not drop the pass fro Patty Mac, Manusky did not taunt after a great play.  Pep did not drop 7 passes.

 

I am with you Jay in theory, but players have to get it done on the field.  Some key first downs early and getting the defense off of the field without the 8:35 drive could have made the difference of 14-0 Cowboys or 14-0 Colts.              !!!!

[ThaCaliColt]

I understand Chuck is a player's coach and has a great relationship with the guys, but does he really enforce "Discipline"? I've seen the words of encouragement (Locker room speaches) from Pagano and that is great. The players need to have a deep respect for the man, but also to fear the reprocussions of their on-field behavior- of what the expectations are and what what will not be tolerated. The team that Pagano envisions taking home Lombardi trophies cannot be undisciplined and careless on the field. Again, I will never understand the performance from this past Sunday. The team was not intent on winning the game, period... 

[zhubaba]

Does Pep script the first 10~20 plays like many other WCO guys do?  I wonder if that might be the cause of our slow starts.

[indyagent17]

the issues lately are dropped passes and Luck has been telegraphing his passes causing tight coverage. Once Luck understands his limitations he will be a better quarterback and better decisions will follow 

[crazycolt1]

I understand Chuck is a player's coach and has a great relationship with the guys, but does he really enforce "Discipline"? I've seen the words of encouragement (Locker room speaches) from Pagano and that is great. The players need to have a deep respect for the man, but also to fear the reprocussions of their on-field behavior- of what the expectations are and what what will not be tolerated. The team that Pagano envisions taking home Lombardi trophies cannot be undisciplined and careless on the field. Again, I will never understand the performance from this past Sunday. The team was not intent on winning the game, period... 

Could it be the Colts are not as good as you expect them to be? IMO the Colts have been over achieving since the day Luck stepped onto the field. One of the reasons the Colts are not playing as well is the other teams have studied the Colts and figured out how to play them. That's what top tier teams do like the teams the Colts lost to. It is plain as day on film that the Colts o-line is weak and the other teams know this. Even the top QBs in the league get rattled when they are being pressured and hit all the time. You mat say the Colts were not intent on winning last week but I highly doubt that. They just got beat by a team who was at home and have more talented players.

[BrentMc11]

Does Pep script the first 10~20 plays like many other WCO guys do?  I wonder if that might be the cause of our slow starts.

He has in the past.  Not sure if that is the case this year.  When they scripted in the past, Luck and Pep scripted the plays.

[coltsfanatic24]

Agree, every 1st down should be in shotgun or play action. Also, Luck needs to run more. There have been plenty of times where he could have gained big yards by running but he doesn't, he needs to work on his running from the pocket awareness like Wilson and Rodgers.

[Jay Kirk]

Agree, every 1st down should be in shotgun or play action. Also, Luck needs to run more. There have been plenty of times where he could have gained big yards by running but he doesn't, he needs to work on his running from the pocket awareness like Wilson and Rodgers.

I have seen the same thing at times ,better to take 6 or 7 yards given than worry about throwing in tight coverage or being crushed in the pocket .

[Jay Kirk]

1) Richardson didn't start on Sunday. Boom did, and it was 3rd and long.

 

2 and 3) These are connected, IMO. Luck has been checking out of run plays all season long, so I don't put the responsibility on Pep for running into heavy boxes. I think Sunday's game was a-typical. Furthermore, because Luck has been checking out of runs, we haven't been running into 8-man boxes. 

 

The slow starts lately have been about dropped passes, fumbles, interceptions, penalties, etc. Not playcalling. 

 

Pep isn't excused of all responsibility for some of the offensive issues, but he's also not to blame for the majority of it. Ironically, the very person to whom you want to give all the responsibility has been rather sloppy lately.

Yes hes been sloppy so has the line protecting him, and part of it is play calling, dropped passes hurt as well ,Im not really referring to Dallas game as I was at work and to disgusted to watch it when I got home.You can have your own opinion right or wrong. Sometimes  this is on Pep but as always its on players for not executing a given play. There are however many times ive watched over the season we should've audibled out of certain plays and didn't. Now who controls this for a fact Luck or Pep ?

[CanuckColt]

No use beating on Andrew...if you take him away and compare the rest of the team to every other team in the league, they are average at best.

[Jay Kirk]

No use beating on Andrew...if you take him away and compare the rest of the team to every other team in the league, they are average at best.

Lol only one in here I seen beating on Luck .

[Superman]

Yes hes been sloppy so has the line protecting him, and part of it is play calling, dropped passes hurt as well ,Im not really referring to Dallas game as I was at work and to disgusted to watch it when I got home.You can have your own opinion right or wrong. Sometimes this is on Pep but as always its on players for not executing a given play. There are however many times ive watched over the season we should've audibled out of certain plays and didn't. Now who controls this for a fact Luck or Pep ?

It's impossible to tell where Pep stops and where Andrew starts. There are likely situations where he's not allowed to check out of a play, based on game situation or other factors, but we can only speculate.

What is pretty obvious is when the box is heavy, and Luck adjusts the play, and then it's a pass. It's been happening all year, actually going back to the end of last year. There is no question that Luck has the freedom, at times, to change the play at the line.

[dw49]

It's impossible to tell where Pep stops and where Andrew starts. There are likely situations where he's not allowed to check out of a play, based on game situation or other factors, but we can only speculate.

What is pretty obvious is when the box is heavy, and Luck adjusts the play, and then it's a pass. It's been happening all year, actually going back to the end of last year. There is no question that Luck has the freedom, at times, to change the play at the line.

 

 

When the Colts sign Mike Lupati and spend a day 2 draft pick on a T , you guys will not be having this conversation. 

[NewColtsFan]

IMO the reason for the slow starts on offense is squarely on the shoulders of Pep. #1 Richardson starts # He calls runs with 8 stacked in the box. #3 Luck does not have Green light to read Ds and audible . This very often leaves us in an early hole. This hurts the Offense as well as the D. I think its high time we put this team in our Franchise QBs hands and let chips fall where they may , maybe he knows when and how to utilize our weapons ! Thoughts ?

 

I'm sorry......     how do you know this?

 

Has there been a story saying this that you can link?

 

I think all NFL QB's have the green light to audible....    Certainly Andrew Luck does.

 

Why do you think this?

[Superman]

When the Colts sign Mike Lupati and spend a day 2 draft pick on a T , you guys will not be having this conversation.

I welcome it, but I don't see it happening.

[ztboiler]

When the Colts sign Mike Lupati and spend a day 2 draft pick on a T , you guys will not be having this conversation. 

I like the day 2 Tackle part a lot....but I think that those hoping for Grigson to sign a big name free agent on the interior of the O-line are going to be disappointed.  

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but I bet he sees some progress with the developing players that the internet masses don't and will continue to draft and develop.

[Dark_Indy]

When the Colts sign Mike Lupati and spend a day 2 draft pick on a T , you guys will not be having this conversation.

Because all 5hose other day 2 oline draft picks have just worked out so well.....

[dw49]

I welcome it, but I don't see it happening.

 

 

I think Irsay will welcome this one with open arms. We have the franchise running for his life and Lupati barring injury is a sure thing. You could even shift him to RT if need be. He will no doubt 100% be the highest paid G in NFL history and I think odds are we are in on the bidding. That of coarse is providing SF decides to let him go. Speculation is he walks. Sorry for the off topic

[NewColtsFan]

I like the day 2 Tackle part a lot....but I think that those hoping for Grigson to sign a big name free agent on the interior of the O-line are going to be disappointed.  

 

Guess we'll have to wait and see, but I bet he sees some progress with the developing players that the internet masses don't and will continue to draft and develop.

 

 

I'm not expecting, nor even hoping for a big name free agent for the interior of the line.    But I am hoping for someone roughly on par with Donald Thomas.    Someone who is good,  who could start if need be,  and perhaps could play guard or center in a pinch if need be.     But this guy could also be our 6th or 7th OL if necessary.....

 

The ceiling:    the guy starts, perhaps at guard or perhaps at center.

 

The floor:    the guy is quality depth at multiple positions.

[Jay Kirk]

I'm sorry......     how do you know this?

 

Has there been a story saying this that you can link?

 

I think all NFL QB's have the green light to audible....    Certainly Andrew Luck does.

 

Why do you think this?

Im sorry I don't agree with you and how do you know this ?  [ I think all NFL QB's have the green light to audible]

[1959Colts]

Does Pep script the first 10~20 plays like many other WCO guys do?  I wonder if that might be the cause of our slow starts.

 

This exactly what I have been thinking over the course of the past several games. 

If plays are scripted... How dumb is that?

[Jay Kirk]

Here we go again Predictable !!!

[Jay Kirk]

8 in box we call a run lol

[Indianapolis-Colts-Fan]

Agree, every 1st down should be in shotgun or play action. Also, Luck needs to run more. There have been plenty of times where he could have gained big yards by running but he doesn't, he needs to work on his running from the pocket awareness like Wilson and Rodgers.

I don't know if anyone else remembers any of these games. But back when jake plumber (sp) was the Broncos QB they had so many bootlegs, that we just never saw coming some how.

Im not only suggesting bootlegs. I'm suggesting other designed QB run plays as well. Andrew Luck has the size, and strength/speed to excel at this.

Protect your QB? Right? That's a laugh with this o-line anyways. but if you have bootlegs sometimes, you have a lot of open space, and time to make a decision.

I just don't understand why luck has to scramble all the time to have any rushing yards.

[Superman]

I think Irsay will welcome this one with open arms. We have the franchise running for his life and Lupati barring injury is a sure thing. You could even shift him to RT if need be. He will no doubt 100% be the highest paid G in NFL history and I think odds are we are in on the bidding. That of coarse is providing SF decides to let him go. Speculation is he walks. Sorry for the off topic

 

Iupati would do a lot for our run game, no question. But he's been leaky in pass pro this season. I don't think I'd want to make him the highest paid guard in the league.

 

I'm thinking any moves this offseason will be predicated on a) how the line plays in the playoffs, and b) what they decide to do with Cherilus (which is partly based on how the line plays in the playoffs). There are some RT prospects in the draft that could make things interesting, and I still think we have young developing talent at guard. Then we put Mewhort at RT today, which I didn't expect we'd see at any point this year. Lots of unanswered questions.

 

But one thing we agree on is that Irsay won't have any problem bringing in some proven talent on the line. I think it has to happen.

[peytonmanning18]

Well we have Trent Richardson so obviously he is a "rolling ball of butcher knives" and we need to establish him at the start of the game.  It's been working really well for 2 years now so lets stick with it.

[NewColtsFan]

Im sorry I don't agree with you and how do you know this ?  [ I think all NFL QB's have the green light to audible]

 

Because audibles are a basic staple of all offenses.   If a QB sees something in the defense that tells him to change the play,  then he's got the green light to change the play.

 

Put another way,  I've never heard of a single QB who didn't have the green light to audible.

 

You're the one making the claim.   I figured you had read it somewhere or heard it somewhere.

 

If you haven't,  I'm simply asking why you believe this?    What would lead you to that conclusion?

[CanuckColt]

Well we have Trent Richardson so obviously he is a "rolling ball of butcher knives" and we need to establish him at the start of the game.  It's been working really well for 2 years now so lets stick with it.

Yeah, "rolling ball of butcher knives"...another famous Chuck-ism...actually more like upChuck-ism.

[peytonmanning18]

Yeah, "rolling ball of butcher knives"...another famous Chuck-ism...actually more like upChuck-ism.

 

he's got grit, he just needs to clean a few things up and keep chopping wood

[dw49]

Iupati would do a lot for our run game, no question. But he's been leaky in pass pro this season. I don't think I'd want to make him the highest paid guard in the league.

 

I'm thinking any moves this offseason will be predicated on a) how the line plays in the playoffs, and b) what they decide to do with Cherilus (which is partly based on how the line plays in the playoffs). There are some RT prospects in the draft that could make things interesting, and I still think we have young developing talent at guard. Then we put Mewhort at RT today, which I didn't expect we'd see at any point this year. Lots of unanswered questions.

 

But one thing we agree on is that Irsay won't have any problem bringing in some proven talent on the line. I think it has to happen.

 

 

I don't think we can even think about cutting Cherlius until 2016. Hopefully he gets healthy as he's at the worst serviceable when not injured. I didnt realize Iupati was having issues in pass protection. If so that does change things on that front. 

[Superman]

I don't think we can even think about cutting Cherlius until 2016. Hopefully he gets healthy as he's at the worst serviceable when not injured. I didnt realize Iupati was having issues in pass protection. If so that does change things on that front. 

 

We'll see on Cherilus. I think there's a 20% chance he's released, especially if he struggles in the playoffs. No reason to pay him another $4m if he's not going to be reliable. I know the dead money is prohibitive, but a post-June 1 release makes his cap penalty in 2015 $2.9m, and then $5.8m in 2016. I'd rather do that than see him make another $4m and give up another 6 sacks and 48 total pressures in 13 games. And he doesn't even make up for it in the run game.

 

By the way, I know he's been hurt, not at 100% all season long. But that's one of the concerns I had when we signed him, given his history. I think this offseason will be a perfect time for a mini rebuild, a chance to seriously evaluate and upgrade pretty much every position on the team. 

[Paulballs]

Roosevelt Potts was the original rolling ball of butcher knives.

[dw49]

We'll see on Cherilus. I think there's a 20% chance he's released, especially if he struggles in the playoffs. No reason to pay him another $4m if he's not going to be reliable. I know the dead money is prohibitive, but a post-June 1 release makes his cap penalty in 2015 $2.9m, and then $5.8m in 2016. I'd rather do that than see him make another $4m and give up another 6 sacks and 48 total pressures in 13 games. And he doesn't even make up for it in the run game.

 

By the way, I know he's been hurt, not at 100% all season long. But that's one of the concerns I had when we signed him, given his history. I think this offseason will be a perfect time for a mini rebuild, a chance to seriously evaluate and upgrade pretty much every position on the team. 

 

 

I don't think they'd release him in June unless they felt he has a medical condition that wouldn't be better by September. But yeah he has been terrible. Do you remember me crapping my pants watching him in pre season ? He's been terrible since the Colts hit the field in August.