Is Wes Welker done? [Merge]

[dgambill]

Peyton doesn't have a really strong arm...that is true. He throws into some small windows too. That said the last couple concussions Wes has had haven't even looked like that bad of hits imo. Some people are just more pre-desposed to this problem then others. Peyton is an easy target....because he looks like he floats balls....but fact is Peyton just throws way way more passes than most qbs. Thus if we looked at a percentage of passes that resulted in a concussion....the likelihood his are much higher than others I think is small. Peyton also gets his receivers PAID....so there is risk reward....I'd take the money and risk the injuries....because quite frankly they risk injuries on every play anyways. Welker had time to get down...the back just lowered his shoulder to pop him...even if it wasn't really warranted. He didn't lead with his head so thats good...but I still don't think it was necessary. Welker gets down pretty quick....once he realizes he isn't getting extra yards he gets down...kinda like Marvin did.....same with Reggie....other WRs didn't always do that....these plays just happen...the article was a terrible one....and a shot at Peyton and Welker imo...but I got to think Wes is on borrowed time now...and the Sanders pick up looks smarter and smarter...because we will probably see the kid from IU some this year along with Caldwell. That sucks for that team....and Wes..he is a great competitor.

[TAPLOOK]

I would say 3 concussions in his last 10 games is pretty compelling evidence that Peyton shoulders muchof the blame.

[southwest1]

Uh, Vance has nothing to do with the Patriots, if I recall.

His post is about Shane's unwillingness to use facts and rational arguments at times, and when no one gets his "argument", he cries, "AD HOMINEM!" and claims that people just don't get his argument . It's a pattern with Shane.

And, what's amusing, is that his video has nothing to do with what we were discussing.

First of all, not every fan is wired the same way way VL. Some guys or gals rely on stats, some guys rely on the eye test, some guys mathematical equations, some guys rely on draft & front office management moves to ascertain the effectiveness of a specific football team. Not every fan of this forum is a football wizard. I sure as hades am not.

 

Just because you may not find Shane's argument credible, it doesn't make it any more or less valid than yours or Vance's for that matter. For example Dustin, Jvan, Gavin, Chad72, BrentMc11, Lollygager8, Jay kirk, & FX Stryker, are better versed in formation schemes & why plays breakdown or fail than I am.  

 

I interpreted Vance as telling Shane with that video that 1 incomplete pass by Welker from Brady does not equal a multitude high risk throws across the middle that cost his WRs & TE's significant down time away from the game. However, Dallas Clark & Austin Collie having concussions with Manning at the helm does not constitute a 14 year veteran QB career with atrocious head trauma results across the middle.

 

That's the point VL. Look at TE Jacob Tamme. He played with Peyton in both INDY & still now in Denver. Is his career sidelined by concussions as we speak courtesy of Manning? Is his career on the brink of retirement right now? Nope. 

[akcolt]

The injuries to those guys weren't due to the QB but the type of routes they ran

just read the topic does this have any facts or just some speculative junk?

[akcolt]

First of all, not every fan is wired the same way way VL. Some guys or gals rely on stats, some guys rely on the eye test, some guys mathematical equations, some guys rely on draft & front office management moves to ascertain the effectiveness of a specific football team. Not every fan of this forum is a football wizard. I sure as hades am not.

 

Just because you may not find Shane's argument credible, it doesn't make it any more or less valid than yours or Vance's for that matter. For example Dustin, Jvan, Gavin, Chad72, BrentMc11, Lollygager8, Jay kirk, & FX Stryker, are better versed in formation schemes & why plays breakdown or fail than I am.  

 

I interpreted Vance as telling Shane with that video that 1 incomplete pass by Welker from Brady does not equal a multitude high risk throws across the middle that cost his WRs & TE's significant down time away from the game. However, Dallas Clark & Austin Collie having concussions with Manning at the helm does not constitute a 14 year veteran QB career with atrocious head trauma results across the middle.

 

That's the point VL. Look at TE Jacob Tamme. He played with Peyton in both INDY & still now in Denver. Is his career sidelined by concussions as we speak courtesy of Manning? Is his career on the brink of retirement right now? Nope. 

Collie had concussions with Brady too

[amfootball]

Collie had concussions with Brady too

No he didn't. He only played a handful of games last year including the AFCCG. The Pats cut him several times during the season and then re-signed him because their receiving corp had so many injuries. Perhaps when he was not there you were thinking he was injured?

[PrincetonTiger]

just read the topic does this have any facts or just some speculative junk?

I am not sure

[Valpo2004]

Concussions won't end his career but he's likely to pay for them in later life.  

[pgt_rob]

He will probably be like Austin Collie and want to continue as long as possible. I don't see him hanging it up any time soon.

[chad72]

I strongly feel they should err on the side of caution with Wes Welker and let him come back after the bye week, which thankfully comes early for him after game 3.

 

I drafted him in my FF league, but this stuff is way bigger than football itself. If he is rushed back, it is very likely another concussion sidelines him for the entire season much like Collie. Not worth it, whatsoever, IMO.

[PrincetonTiger]

Concussions won't end his career but he's likely to pay for them in later life.

agreed

[amfootball]

I strongly feel they should err on the side of caution with Wes Welker and let him come back after the bye week, which thankfully comes early for him after game 3.

 

I drafted him in my FF league, but this stuff is way bigger than football itself. If he is rushed back, it is very likely another concussion sidelines him for the entire season much like Collie. Not worth it, whatsoever, IMO.

I agree but he had the entire off-season off and still got another concussion. Given all the info that is now out on these things, I think they really have to proceed with extreme caution.

[jvan1973]

I strongly feel they should err on the side of caution with Wes Welker and let him come back after the bye week, which thankfully comes early for him after game 3.

I drafted him in my FF league, but this stuff is way bigger than football itself. If he is rushed back, it is very likely another concussion sidelines him for the entire season much like Collie. Not worth it, whatsoever, IMO.

I dont think there is any evidence that suggests after being cleared post concussion that extra time off makes it less likely to get another concussion. He had the entire off season and still got his third concussion. If he has decided not to retire, then i think he plays as soon as he is cleared

[PrincetonTiger]

I dont think there is any evidence that suggests asset being cleared post concussion that extra time off makes it less likely to get another concussion. He had the entire off season and still got his third concussion. If he has decided not to retire, then i think he plays as soon as he is cleared

and that will be determined by the severity of the injury

[jvan1973]

and that will be determined by the severity of the injury

Right, i haven't heard anything about the severity

[PrincetonTiger]

Right, i haven't heard anything about the severity

Me neither but since it is his third the down time will be on the high end

[akcolt]

Me neither but since it is his third the down time will be on the high end

It was a big hit I did see that and made Peyton made enough to run to get in the guys face after he threw the td pass to end he drive. Although it didn't look dirty looked like he lead with the shoulder and you know how those things happen.

[akcolt]

No he didn't. He only played a handful of games last year including the AFCCG. The Pats cut him several times during the season and then re-signed him because their receiving corp had so many injuries. Perhaps when he was not there you were thinking he was injured?

My bad it was a knee injury

[King Colt]

I know there are thousands of ideas on concusion prevention but what if the helmets had small bumpers on the front exteriors to reduce impact?

[JerodMayo51]

I dont think there is any evidence that suggests after being cleared post concussion that extra time off makes it less likely to get another concussion. He had the entire off season and still got his third concussion. If he has decided not to retire, then i think he plays as soon as he is cleared

 

I actually think there is research that suggests you're more likely to get a concussion after sustaining your first one, and it increases with each one.

 

I'll try to find the article... concussions are scary business... its trauma and bruising to your brain and there are plenty of examples of athletes that have onset alzhiemers in their early 40s (Ted Johnson), have become clinically depressed and suicidal (Junior Seau).

 

Scary stuff..  I seriously hope its not serious for Welker and I hope that he and his family consult with doctors and make the best decision for them and their long future they have to look forward to after football.

[jvan1973]

I actually think there is research that suggests you're more likely to get a concussion after sustaining your first one, and it increases with each one.

I'll try to find the article... concussions are scary business... its trauma and bruising to your brain and there are plenty of examples of athletes that have onset alzhiemers in their early 40s (Ted Johnson), have become clinically depressed and suicidal (Junior Seau).

Scary stuff.. I seriously hope its not serious for Welker and I hope that he and his family consult with doctors and make the best decision for them and their long future they have to look forward to after football.

Oh i know that is the case. I'm saying i think waiting a month won't make him anyless apt to have another than two weeks. I know once you had one, you are more likely to have others. See Troy Aikman and Steve Young

[chad72]

I dont think there is any evidence that suggests after being cleared post concussion that extra time off makes it less likely to get another concussion. He had the entire off season and still got his third concussion. If he has decided not to retire, then i think he plays as soon as he is cleared

 

All I know is this: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/concussion-center/hic-concussions.aspx

 

Read the Q&A at the bottom:

 

If I have a concussion, how likely am I to have another one?

Once you have a concussion, you are at three to five times greater risk for later concussions.

 

 

That is why the Broncos, despite Welker passing all tests, should hold off for a few weeks to make sure no symptoms come back with limited contact first in practice. That is also the reason why Welker might not have had a concussion with a similar hit years ago before he had his first BIG one vs the Chiefs last year (IF that was his first BIG one). 

 

Do the concussion passing protocols of the NFL mandate the player be subjected to limited contact in full pads first? Just curious. Also, is it possible Belichick did not make any concussion related injury reports available to the public before regarding Welker? After all, his ex-LB Ted Johnson did allege Belichick made him play despite concussions. Just throwing out the possibility of the fact that Welker might have suffered concussions before. Heck, even Troy Polamalu had admitted a while ago that he lied about concussions to play in the past.

[jvan1973]

All I know is this: http://my.clevelandclinic.org/concussion-center/hic-concussions.aspx

Read the Q&A at the bottom:

If I have a concussion, how likely am I to have another one?

Once you have a concussion, you are at three to five times greater risk for later concussions.

That is why the Broncos, despite Welker passing all tests, should hold off for a few weeks to make sure no symptoms come back with limited contact first in practice. That is also the reason why Welker might not have had a concussion with a similar hit years ago before he had his first BIG one vs the Chiefs last year (IF that was his first BIG one).

Do the concussion passing protocols of the NFL mandate the player be subjected to limited contact in full pads first? Just curious. Also, is it possible Belichick did not make any concussion related injury reports available to the public before regarding Welker? After all, his ex-LB Ted Johnson did allege Belichick made him play despite concussions. Just throwing out the possibility of the fact that Welker might have suffered concussions before. Heck, even Troy Polamalu had admitted a while ago that he lied about concussions to play in the past.

I'm sure a lot of players lie about having a concussion so they can play

[Shane Bond]

LOL, the fact that you say I got 'burned' with yet another ridiculous statement which I couldn't even reply to because the thread was locked, is pretty sad.

Of course it was personal. You just said something personal to me, because your comment is directed AT ME. When you quote someone, it pretty much makes it personal.

Thirdly, as I've already stated, that video is a poor example for what you are trying to prove.

Replying to the topic in a post is not personal. Using terms like "sickness".

Anyways Nadine made it clear in the above post. I will let her handle it.

[Guest nflfan014]

TBH. Even though I admire & respect what the Patriots have accomplished ever since BB was hired as the HC in 2000, it does trouble me sometimes how NE is always placed at the top of the NFL pyramid despite not winning a SB since 2004. Yes, I know INDY hasn't won a Championship since 2006. My point is this: While NE is a premier football franchise & deservedly so, I wish the media would widen their scope of Lombardi front runner praise a little bit more & widen the net. 

 

That's what I think Shane was getting at. This unwritten symbolic mist in the air that NE is perfect & never makes any mistakes almost as if the only way to win is to replicate the Patriot Way & formula. Their coach is deemed a genius, their owner is deemed a model blue print of impeccable ownership, & their QB walks on water like Jesus. I'm being sarcastic here BTW. Sometimes, journalists covering Boston football need to tone down the blinding hero worship considerably that's all I saying. Does Manning have overzealous hero worship in Denver too? Oh you bet your caboose he does. 

 

If I were to boil it down to it's most elemental level, I would say this: Shane just got fed up with this reporter mentality that NE sets the agenda for everything that happens in the NFL & that Tommy Terrific & the Grey Hoodie never make a false move or mistake. That's why he posted the video: Frustration over this skewed NFL landscape love affair with NE. Shane just wanted to show that an elite QB like Brady is not a God; he too can make mistakes, throws a bad ball once in awhile, or turns the ball over occasionally. He is in fact--human with faults in his own game. JMO. 

 

Not sure why you're paying attention to what Boston media says,  but like someone else said, there are plenty of media in Boston that criticize Patriots related things.  There's a couple Patriots beat writers that openly root for the Patriots to lose.  The Patriots love isn't as widespread as you think.  They more so get attention because people tune in to watch them in the hope that they lose.

[Vance]

Replying to the topic in a post is not personal. Using terms like "sickness".

Anyways Nadine made it clear in the above post. I will let her handle it.

 

I said, quoting somebody and replying to them is personal. Not "replying to the topic in a post". Can you not read correctly?

[Shane Bond]

I said, quoting somebody and replying to them is personal. Not "replying to the topic in a post". Can you not read correctly?

I like how you ignored the "sickness" part and continue with your corny lines ( can you not read correctly ).

[Vance]

I like how you ignored the "sickness" part and continue with your corny lines ( can you not read correctly ).

 

Got it. You can't read.

[Shane Bond]

Got it. You can't read.

You sure?. I mean are you really sure?. 

[Shane Bond]

Except that not every slot player ends up like those guys.

Looks like this NFL writer agrees with me:

http://www.csnne.com/new-england-patriots/curran-manning-has-share-blame-welker-concussion

What do we say about this reply?.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/25/6064417/is-peyton-manning-responsible-for-wes-welkers-concussions

[Guest nflfan014]

What do we say about this reply?.

http://www.milehighreport.com/2014/8/25/6064417/is-peyton-manning-responsible-for-wes-welkers-concussions

 

He sounds like a 12 year old.  I hope he isn't a professional reporter.

[Shane Bond]

He sounds like a 12 year old. I hope he isn't a professional reporter.

No kidding. What I thought of the other reporter.

[Guest nflfan014]

No kidding. What I thought of the other reporter.

 

I'm talking about the Denver guy using childish insults like "m*sshole" and "Brady worshipers."  If he wrote like an adult, maybe he'd be taken seriously outside of Denver and Indy.

[Shane Bond]

I'm talking about the Denver guy using childish insults like "m*sshole" and "Brady worshipers." If he wrote like an adult, maybe he'd be taken seriously outside of Denver and Indy.

Same thoughts about a reporter from NE. I mean do you remember that one voter who didn't vote for Manning's MVP last year?.

[JamesGallegos]

Wes Welker took a hard hit to save himself from Texans safety. During the game of Saturday night, after drawing 15 yard penalty, Welker immediately left the game and Broncos confirmed afterward that he had suffered a conclusion.

[jvan1973]

Wes Welker took a hard hit to save himself from Texans safety. During the game of Saturday night, after drawing 15 yard penalty, Welker immediately left the game and Broncos confirmed afterward that he had suffered a conclusion.

Thanks for that late breaking news

[Dustin]

Wes Welker took a hard hit to save himself from Texans safety. During the game of Saturday night, after drawing 15 yard penalty, Welker immediately left the game and Broncos confirmed afterward that he had suffered a conclusion.

Shocking news imo.

[jvan1973]

Shocking news imo.

I hadn't heard a word about it until just now

[chad72]

I'm talking about the Denver guy using childish insults like "m*sshole" and "Brady worshipers."  If he wrote like an adult, maybe he'd be taken seriously outside of Denver and Indy.

 

Yeah.

 

But he did provide gifs of Brady leading Welker into hits too. Just the nature of the slot wideout.

 

It is always the first big one. The first big one Welker had was vs the Chiefs. Once you have that first big concussion, I do feel repeat concussions happen faster than you expect, for hits that you were able to handle years ago just fine prior to that first big concussion.

[GoPats]

Im a little scared about what they're going to do with Devin McCourty though... They need to extend Revis and McCourty.  They can probably use the Franchise Tag on McCourty and pay Revis, but they would need to cut Mankins or Wilfork to free up a lot of cap space to make that possible.

 

Mankins is nearing the end of his hall of fame career and is on the books for lots o money.. so they might look to trade or move on from him at some point as a salary cap decision.

 

You cant lose a young stud like McCourty for an aging stud like Mankins.

 

sorry i went a little off topic

 

Impressive! You got this in 24 hours before it happened. 

 

You're not Bill Belichick... right?  ;)