Indianapolis Colts will continue to use "interchangeable safety" on defense

[TKnight24]

To the bolded, I don't agree. He's better helping over the top than being solely responsible in short areas.

One more thing, keep in mind that the term "strong safety" originally applied to what side of the field that player lined up on, the strong side or the weak side. Just like strongside or SAM backer refers to the linebacker on the strong side of the play, strong safety originally referred to the safety on the strong side of the play. Had little to do with which safety was down closer to the line of scrimmage.

Because the strong side of the play is typically the side the TE is lined up on, the SS would drop down into the box for run support, since the presence of a TE used to signal a run play. Anymore, that's not the case, because TEs are legitimate receiving threats these days, but that wasn't typically true back in the day. So that box safety could be less concerned about man coverage, and more concerned with run support, on many plays.

Things have obviously changed. The old FS/SS terms don't quite mean what they used to, but we do still typically use our SS on the strong side of the play.

*Takes Notes*

Is all of this gonna be on the quiz Professor Kent?

[Bluefire4]

I'd rather not have Landry and the word "Covering" in the same sentence

Well he's got to do one of the two.

[BlueShoe]

To the bolded, I don't agree. He's better helping over the top than being solely responsible in short areas. 

 

One more thing, keep in mind that the term "strong safety" originally applied to what side of the field that player lined up on, the strong side or the weak side. Just like strongside or SAM backer refers to the linebacker on the strong side of the play, strong safety originally referred to the safety on the strong side of the play. Had little to do with which safety was down closer to the line of scrimmage.

 

Because the strong side of the play is typically the side the TE is lined up on, the SS would drop down into the box for run support, since the presence of a TE used to signal a run play. Anymore, that's not the case, because TEs are legitimate receiving threats these days, but that wasn't typically true back in the day. So that box safety could be less concerned about man coverage, and more concerned with run support, on many plays.

 

Things have obviously changed. The old FS/SS terms don't quite mean what they used to, but we do still typically use our SS on the strong side of the play.

 

Agreed.

 

Another example is that (depending on the offensive formation) we will at times line up our DE on the strong side and DT on the weak side while keeping our linebackers in place. It creates a strong/weak side and a weak/strong side. 

[Gavin]

He barely played in half his team's snaps last year, 300 fewer than Landry did. He had three picks. I'm not sure that qualifies as a playmaker. He's 37 years old next month. He'd be better as a secondary coach than as a player. Time to let Ed Reed rest peacefully.

Im just saying those 3 picks came in only 7 games played. Reed also was dealing with a labral tear which he had arthroscopic surgery late in the offseason so I find it hard to judge what he can and cant do at 35 unless he is healthy, Not that I am content to see Howell show what he can do and I do like a couple other Safeties on the team but a 1 year deal may be worth it

[GoColts8818]

This tells me no one has stepped and "won" the job.  Hopefully someone does. 

[NewColtsFan]

2nd year in the 3-4 defense last season, 3rd year this season.

And while you view it as criticised tactics, it's stating facts. As everyone pointed out, yes Landry is the fastest and most ranged privileged S on the roster but his ball skills leave a lot to be desired

I was ecstatic when we signed him coming off his pro bowl year, but was disappointed with his play. But then I think how Manusky is no Guru like Rex Ryan is when it comes to defense. Expecting much improvement from Mr. Landry this year but we'll see if the expectations are met

 

That Manusky is no Rex Ryan is hardly a knock.    Most defensive coaches are not Rex Ryan.    Or Rob Ryan for that matter.

 

But, with very little talent on the defensive side last year,  Manusky's defense held opposing offenses to the 9th fewest points in the NFL.    9th out of 32 teams.      That's not too darn bad.    

 

I think Manusky critics here should cut the guy a bit of slack.    He's Pagano's hand picked guy, and if he's doing something wrong, then surely Pagano could fix it.    So if Pagano is happy with the guy,  then I'm OK with him...

[Bluefire4]

Im just saying those 3 picks came in only 7 games played. Reed also was dealing with a labral tear which he had arthroscopic surgery late in the offseason so I find it hard to judge what he can and cant do at 35 unless he is healthy, Not that I am content to see Howell show what he can do and I do like a couple other Safeties on the team but a 1 year deal may be worth it

I think some people just look at stats and not the play. Anyone who saw Ed Reed play knows how awful he was. The Jets defensive scheme just seems more oppurtunistic in the turnover department. I mean Dee Miliner had more picks than Vontae but no one is debating Miliner is better than him.

[Gavin]

I think some people just look at stats and not the play. Anyone who saw Ed Reed play knows how awful he was. The Jets defensive scheme just seems more oppurtunistic in the turnover department. I mean Dee Miliner had more picks than Vontae but no one is debating Miliner is better than him.

He probably don't have it anymore but its hard to judge given that he was coming off an injury that he had surgery on late in the preseason, Would be worth the chance on a cheap 1 year deal, if he don't have it in practice and in the next preseason games then ya cut him, No harm no foul. I mean I am content to watch Howell this year so Im not campaigning hard for Reed but there is no doubt if he still has it then it would be a big payoff

[krunk]

I think Mike Adams has a good likelihood to beat out Delano Howell.  I think Howell is an alright guy, but I really don't think he's more than a marginal talent overall.  I don't think he's sorry, but I just don't think he's even over average.  

 

Adams is no hall of famer either, but I think he's a bit of an upgrade over Howell.  As far as the Ed Reed talk is concerned I don't knock anyone for thinking he's an option, but if he was I think Grigs would have him signed over guys like Colt Anderson and David Sims.  My gut tells me Grigs and Pagano do not think he has much left.

[Superman]

Im just saying those 3 picks came in only 7 games played. Reed also was dealing with a labral tear which he had arthroscopic surgery late in the offseason so I find it hard to judge what he can and cant do at 35 unless he is healthy, Not that I am content to see Howell show what he can do and I do like a couple other Safeties on the team but a 1 year deal may be worth it

 

He played in 14 games last year. And yes, the soon to be 37 year old had a pretty tough recovery from a hip injury last year, so why do we think he'll be better this year?

 

I just think the Ed Reed ship has sailed. His career is most likely over, especially his ability to be a meaningful starter for a good defense. 

[Stephen]

We just have average safties

[NagelHausForge]

I wish we had a true ball hawk of a safety that could help generate turnovers.  I think that is something that is missing from the Colts' D.  Landry doesn't seem to have the instincts for that role and I haven't heard anything from camp to suggest any of the other guys do either, though I may be wrong.

 

I think its a good idea to use the 2 safety positions interchageably.  Might help confuse the D as to which safety will be deep and which will be in coverage.  Nothing wrong with a little subterfuge!

[crazycolt1]

I don't know what vet minimum is, I'd offer 3 mill...No higher then 4 mill

    

[lollygagger8]

So really, the only thing Landry has going for him is speed, and a missile tackle every once in awhile. 

 

 

 

Got it. 

[Gavin]

    

you might be beating your head plenty of more times against the wall this year with the Safety concerns

[ProblChld32]

I mean the sole purpose as having "interchangeable" safeties is to make the defense less predictible and make it harder For QB's to reasd the coverage. The concept is great, the personal not so much i guess. i love the idea of having safeties that should be able to play both free as well as strong . i guess we have to see how this season pans out in the secondary. wish we still had Lefeged

[Jason_]

That Manusky is no Rex Ryan is hardly a knock.    Most defensive coaches are not Rex Ryan.    Or Rob Ryan for that matter.

 

But, with very little talent on the defensive side last year,  Manusky's defense held opposing offenses to the 9th fewest points in the NFL.    9th out of 32 teams.      That's not too darn bad.    

 

I think Manusky critics here should cut the guy a bit of slack.    He's Pagano's hand picked guy, and if he's doing something wrong, then surely Pagano could fix it.    So if Pagano is happy with the guy,  then I'm OK with him...

 

Just one minor correction, Keith Butler was Pagano's hand-picked guy but he wound up signing an extension with Pittsburgh.  Manusky was the 2nd choice.

[Gabriel Alexander Morillo]

Time to draft safety next year in the first...

[Devildog]

Hmmm... Do we have to sign the chicken fries first?

 

 

I think Josh Chapman can work something out to where we can do that under the table.

Heard he's the man to talk to when you wanna get your hands on the tasty things without drawing much attention

It's ok to use Chicken Fries and Josh Chapman in the same sentence.

[DougDew]

If the role of the safety in the box is to be more of a coverage guy for the RB or TE and not a run stopper (kind of what the NFL has evolved into) then why not just put a big CB in the box instead of a safety at all.

 

Maybe we should've drafted a guy like Stanley Jean-Baptiste and made him the "cover safety" and let Howell and Landry compete over who can play center field the best....keeping in mind that tackling and ball skills may be just as important as speed and strength.

[Superman]

If the role of the safety in the box is to be more of a coverage guy for the RB or TE and not a run stopper (kind of what the NFL has evolved into) then why not just put a big CB in the box instead of a safety at all.

 

Maybe we should've drafted a guy like Stanley Jean-Baptiste and made him the "cover safety" and let Howell and Landry compete over who can play center field the best....keeping in mind that tackling and ball skills may be just as important as speed and strength.

 

Because in nickel situations, we often use the SS outside the box. He still needs to be a traditional safety who can help and cover deep.

 

As for SJB, he's not a good tackler, and is raw in his coverage ability. But I did hope that we would draft someone who fit that mold. Had my eye on Terrence Brooks, personally. Delano Howell is being asked to play that role, and Mike Adams has done it for a while.

[NewColtsFan]

Just one minor correction, Keith Butler was Pagano's hand-picked guy but he wound up signing an extension with Pittsburgh.  Manusky was the 2nd choice.

 

That's fine.    Plenty of coaches who weren't the first choice have worked out just fine in the history of sports.   When Pagano's first choice was not available,  he went to his 2nd choice.    And that's as it should be.

 

I still don't see a defense that's all that talented.   I think Manusky does OK considering how little talent he has to work with.

[Jason_]

That's fine.    Plenty of coaches who weren't the first choice have worked out just fine in the history of sports.   When Pagano's first choice was not available,  he went to his 2nd choice.    And that's as it should be.

 

I still don't see a defense that's all that talented.   I think Manusky does OK considering how little talent he has to work with.

 

I never said anything to the contrary.  Only that Butler was Pagano's hand-picked DC.  I believe a few other coaches signed with teams while the Butler thing was playing out so I kind of got the feeling that Manusky, at the time of his signing, was the best of what was left.  I'm not down on him at all and I don't think he should be replaced at this point.

[NewColtsFan]

I never said anything to the contrary.  Only that Butler was Pagano's hand-picked DC.  I believe a few other coaches signed with teams while the Butler thing was playing out so I kind of got the feeling that Manusky, at the time of his signing, was the best of what was left.  I'm not down on him at all and I don't think he should be replaced at this point.

 

No worries....   i know you didn't say or imply that....    I understand the context you're offering.

 

Appreciate it....   I was not part of Colts-nation back then,  so the context is important to someone line me....     

[throwing BBZ]

I wish we had a true ball hawk of a safety that could help generate turnovers.  I think that is something that is missing from the Colts' D.  Landry doesn't seem to have the instincts for that role and I haven't heard anything from camp to suggest any of the other guys do either, though I may be wrong.

 

I think its a good idea to use the 2 safety positions interchageably.  Might help confuse the D as to which safety will be deep and which will be in coverage.  Nothing wrong with a little subterfuge!

 

 Of course it is wise to have safeties that are interchangeable.

 And Chuck & Manusky will do the best they can with the players they are given.

 Hilarious what these arm chair Coaches here are getting so  windy about. 

  We finally dumped the last of  5-6 weak players in the D rotation that either didn`t fit the scheme or didn`t have the talent.

  Manuskey STILL will be relying on a number of young or New players but at least they are Now Our Guys.

  Bolderdash that this is the 3rd year in the scheme when so many Duds have been dumped since year one.

[ztboiler]

Yeah, he has the speed and instincts. Just lacks the ball skills

And the fundamental tackling

I'll bet he has ball skills....just can't tell since he can't raise his arms above his neck.  All kidding aside, you do have to wonder if he is doing the right things to be a football player.  

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

LOL, again???

 

The headline should probably read "Colts will continue to pay lip service to the idea of interchangeable safeties in order to avoid tipping their hand." That's kind of a long headline, though.

 

We really don't use our safeties interchangeably. I haven't charted this, maybe I will this year, but the Colts typically use their SS in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers, and to support the run. They will drop him into the box or to the nickel slot, and go with a single high safety look. That leaves the FS responsible for the back end.

 

Landry is far better suited to be the single high guy, since he has excellent range and make-up speed. He can also be good in the box against the run, if he takes the proper angles and doesn't miss tackles (but he sometimes takes bad angles and misses tackles, so...) There's no reason anyone should want to see Landry as the SS, since he isn't good in man coverage and would get taken apart by slot receivers and good TEs. He also can't shed blocks worth a damn, so putting him in the box and letting the offense account for him on run downs with a TE or a FB is kind of pointless.

 

What the Colts mean -- IMO -- when they say they use the safeties "interchangeably" is that they'll use both safeties in the box or up top, depending on the playcall and the situation. But typically, they don't use Landry in man coverage in the box. Nor should they.

Most of this is true, but SS don't cover slot receivers unless A they can cover, or B the slot guy is a TE or bigger receiver. IMO Landry is good at run support he does take bad angles sometimes that hurts. I think this happens because he is ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE BIG SHOT. I played safety and big shots are great but the tackle is the main thing, wait for the big shot it will come! FS usually is a good tackles smaller than SS has speed and hopefully ball skills. By being interchangeable Paggno doesn't want to tip his hand as to what defense they are in, or which safety is which to confuse the offense. We did this last year some and it worked nicely sometimes, but you have to have the athletes to do it with the necessary skill sets and size.

[DougDew]

Because in nickel situations, we often use the SS outside the box. He still needs to be a traditional safety who can help and cover deep.

 

As for SJB, he's not a good tackler, and is raw in his coverage ability. But I did hope that we would draft someone who fit that mold. Had my eye on Terrence Brooks, personally. Delano Howell is being asked to play that role, and Mike Adams has done it for a while.

I guess that if we use the SS outside of the box in the nickel, then a big CB would be better at that then a true SS, no?

 

Yeah.  I was just using SJB as an example of a CB who, at 6'2" 210 or something probably doesn't have the fluidity to hang with speedier, agile WRs, but might be fluid enough to stay with a TE or RB and big enough to make some in the box tackles, like a SS would.  There are probably better examples than SJB however.

 

My thinking that in the pass happy NFL, replacing the true SS with more of a CB/SS hybrid who is more of a cover guy than a runstopper guy would make more sense, leaving the true S as a centerfield FS.  I don't think Landry fits either of those roles very well.

[Warhorse]

Does Bob Sanders have any offspring yet?

 

How about a mini Darrell Green? (Yes...I think he could have played any DB position)

[Jason_]

Does Bob Sanders have any offspring yet?

 

nope, he hurt himself trying to climb into bed

[Superman]

Most of this is true, but SS don't cover slot receivers unless A they can cover, or B the slot guy is a TE or bigger receiver. IMO Landry is good at run support he does take bad angles sometimes that hurts. I think this happens because he is ALWAYS LOOKING FOR THE BIG SHOT. I played safety and big shots are great but the tackle is the main thing, wait for the big shot it will come! FS usually is a good tackles smaller than SS has speed and hopefully ball skills. By being interchangeable Paggno doesn't want to tip his hand as to what defense they are in, or which safety is which to confuse the offense. We did this last year some and it worked nicely sometimes, but you have to have the athletes to do it with the necessary skill sets and size.

 

For two years, we've used our SS in man coverage against TEs and slot receivers. We used our SS to cover TEs and slot receivers last week against the Jets, and I'm betting we're going to continue to do so.

[Gavin]

Ill pose another question, Seeing as how there will continue to look to be a hot debate about our current crop of Safeties the San Francisco 49ers selected Jimmie Ward with the 30th overall pick in last years draft, Its easy to see he has cover skill and can play the run a bit as well, he is versatile,,,He can play in the slot, Now I don't think this would happen and I am not saying I'd do it even if the 49ers agreed but would you offer a 2nd rounder and Brandon Mckinney for Ward...I know a 2nd rounder seems high but Ward would help a lot and I don't think McKinney is going to make the team but the 49ers do need NT help, He is not likely to start with Bethea and Eric Reid there

[Superman]

Ill pose another question, Seeing as how there will continue to look to be a hot debate about our current crop of Safeties the San Francisco 49ers selected Jimmie Ward with the 30th overall pick in last years draft, Its easy to see he has cover skill and can play the run a bit as well, he is versatile,,,He can play in the slot, Now I don't think this would happen and I am not saying I'd do it even if the 49ers agreed but would you offer a 2nd rounder and Brandon Mckinney for Ward...I know a 2nd rounder seems high but Ward would help a lot and I don't think McKinney is going to make the team but the 49ers do need NT help, He is not likely to start with Bethea and Eric Reid there

 

Yes, I would. And this would never happen.

[crazycolt1]

you might be beating your head plenty of more times against the wall this year with the Safety concerns

What I don't understand is how you think that Reed could do anything for the Colts. I am far from not the only one who thinks this. I guess you think his age would not be a factor? How about his loss of talent because of his age?

[Gavin]

What I don't understand is how you think that Reed could do anything for the Colts. I am far from not the only one who thinks this. I guess you think his age would not be a factor? How about his loss of talent because of his age?

That very well could be the case or that could have just been he was not healthy because of surgery right before the season started, like I said, kick the tires, If not healthy then no harm/no foul

[Warhorse]

I listened to an interview tonight with Bethea. I miss his presence on the team and I wish we could have afforded to keep him.

[crazycolt1]

That very well could be the case or that could have just been he was not healthy because of surgery right before the season started, like I said, kick the tires, If not healthy then no harm/no foul

So spend 4 million to kick the tires of an old man? Some how I just don't see it. He had already lost a lot of his ability before his surgery. If he would have been worth the money he would have still been a Raven IMO.

[Superman]

I listened to an interview tonight with Bethea. I miss his presence on the team and I wish we could have afforded to keep him.

 

It wasn't about the money. We have the cap space, easily. I believe it was about his play. I wasn't impressed with his coverage last season, so I'm not too surprised by that.

 

As for his other qualities, I do think he was awesome as a veteran leader. Never in trouble, always on the field. Can't really ask for more.

[TKnight24]

I listened to an interview tonight with Bethea. I miss his presence on the team and I wish we could have afforded to keep him.

His play didn't warrant what his pockets were asking for

[DougDew]

Ill pose another question, Seeing as how there will continue to look to be a hot debate about our current crop of Safeties the San Francisco 49ers selected Jimmie Ward with the 30th overall pick in last years draft, Its easy to see he has cover skill and can play the run a bit as well, he is versatile,,,He can play in the slot, Now I don't think this would happen and I am not saying I'd do it even if the 49ers agreed but would you offer a 2nd rounder and Brandon Mckinney for Ward...I know a 2nd rounder seems high but Ward would help a lot and I don't think McKinney is going to make the team but the 49ers do need NT help, He is not likely to start with Bethea and Eric Reid there

IIRC, Ward is a bit undersized for what I would want to often cover a TE and play the run.  I don't think McKinney sweetens a pot in any trade scenario frankly.  I would prefer to keep the 2nd and find a bigger hybrid SS/CB in the draft.