Andre Johnson doesn't want to play for the Texans.

[lollygagger8]

If I'm the Panthers, I'd be doing whatever it takes to get someone to catch the ball. 

[Superman]

1. Of course. But abandoning ship now when he has no idea what the guy has to offer is troublesome. Again, the pieces are being put together on this team, and it will be better than anything he's seen before. It's not just about Bill O'Brien.

 

2. The Texans won the division two out of the past three years. Now our team is looking to be better than either of those Texans teams. Who's to say we don't shock the world like you guys did or the Chiefs? Who's to say the Broncos don't take a step back or, like I said before, Brady or Manning retires and Andre wants to switch teams again because he doesn't like the teams' chances of getting to the big game? My intentions are out there and clear for everybody to see so there is nothing that needs to be declared as transparent.

 

3. Yeah, but when healthy he is one of the best in the game. I understand what you're saying though, it would be looking at the future instead of now, but I think BOB is of the mindset that he wants to win now not later. And the fans are starved to win again.

 

4. Again, won the division two out of the past three years. I know you guys were hopeful about getting the division back sooner rather than later (and, I was here, many said it would happen in 2012 and some said 2013, the latter being correct, and not many of them were hammered and told that they were wrong about it) and you did. We are hoping for the same and as far as Andre or anyone else knows we could be right. Our defense is being prepared to be a major factor so to say we aren't going to be contending is just conjecture at this point.

 

5. Yes, they win the PR battle, but the Texans truly want to keep him (or wanted to, not sure of their position now). It's not some grand act to make themselves look better in the eyes of fans.

 

1) That's speculative. And like I said, the last time the Texans switched coaches, it didn't pay off, despite the optimism. AJ might believe in the future potential of the Texans, but he doesn't have 6 years to see if O'Brien can get to the playoffs.

 

2) That's one way of looking at it. Or you could say that the Texans have missed the playoffs 81% of the time since AJ has been there, and took a HUGE step backward last season. Perspective matters.

 

What the Colts and Chiefs did is rare; not impossible, but rare. Maybe the Texans have a similar turnaround, but the odds aren't in their favor. If AJ went to a team that has been contending in recent years, and still looks like a contender now (and it doesn't have to be a team with an older QB, it could be the Packers, Chiefs, Eagles, etc.), he'd be in a better position over the next couple of years. That's an assumption, but a reasonable one. Much more reasonable than assuming that the Texans suddenly vault everyone else in the AFC.

 

Also, if Brady or Manning retire in a couple years, AJ will be 35, and on more of a downward trajectory than he is now. He clearly wants to play for a better team NOW; if he were worried about two years from now, he'd be happy staying in Houston.

 

3) You don't need a great RB to win now, IMO. There were lots of really good backs in the draft this year, in later rounds. Again, I really like Foster, but his production is replaceable, at a fraction of the cost. I'm just saying what I would have done, if I were calling the shots. I said this several months ago when people on this board were acting like the Texans can't possibly sniff the playoffs for the next three years. JMO

 

4) Again, 2-14 last year, and lost 13 games in a row. I'm bullish on the Texans, but a 33 year old AJ wanting out of a team that has floundered most of his time there is simply not comparable to a 25 year old QB wanting to ditch the team that's being built around him and that hasn't missed the playoffs in his short career. The Colts are also a team that showed that they could rebound quickly; the Texans haven't shown that. It's not comparable. Sorry.

 

5) Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying that they were just playing a long game. I was just thinking out loud. Like I said, I would have traded him before the draft. Foster, too. And my regime would have been beaten up in the court of public opinion (which is often wrong), just like the Colts front office took a bunch of heat for cutting over-the-hill guys like Brackett, Clark, Addai and Bullitt (none of whom have produced at any considerable levels since they were cut; three of them haven't played a single snap since then). Just like the Panthers front office got killed for cutting Steve Smith. IF the Texans move AJ, it will be because he demanded to be moved, not because the team decided to jettison the expensive, aging player who has stuck with them through thick and thin for over a decade. So they get what I think are the benefits of trading him, without the negative media. It's a win/win. 

[Superman]

I recall very well how in season's past he wanted more money & almost threatened holding out until he was compensated as an elite WR. I'm old school; you prove your worth on the field production wise, you show up to OTAs & minicamp, & the money itself will fall into place in the end. 

 

I don't give a darn about double standards Superman. Johnson is under contract. Where I come from, elite WR disgruntled or not, you show up to work. You do this to demonstrate professionalism & respect for your teammates & ownership, who has treated Andre exceptionally well. 

 

Since when has AJ not shown up for work? There's no such thing as 'almost threatening to hold out.' Either he held out or he didn't.

 

This is crazy talk, to be honest. If a team cuts a player or asks him to take a pay cut, they aren't raked over the coals like this. I know AJ is under contract, but he hasn't held out (skipping voluntary workouts isn't holding out, sorry). Asking for a new contract in the past isn't lack of professionalism. It's part of the business.

 

I just don't like this idea that the players should march in line, no matter what, while the teams decide what's best for the players. They play on non-guaranteed contracts, they can be cut or traded at any moment, their careers can be over in the blink of an eye... No one is looking out for them but them. I don't feel sorry for NFL players; they get paid handsomely, but I disagree with this kind of criticism.

 

The Texans haven't treated AJ well; they've paid him market value for his services, just like any other team would have done.

[southwest1]

The problem with this is that Andre is an established player. I truly believe if you do this with him, he will retire for a year and then sign with a contender to try and win a Super Bowl. He doesn't need to play a year where he doesn't think he has a chance of winning. Best to get a mid-rounder for him.

Where's Johnson gonna go, the Bengals? Andy Dalton collapses in the post season just like Matt Schaub always used to. Why leave Houston for that Cincinnati train wreck on offense with the red rifle running things at the helm? 

 

Lollygager's choice of Cam Newton & the Panthers could work. Good call on that one Lolly! 

[southwest1]

Since when has AJ not shown up for work? There's no such thing as 'almost threatening to hold out.' Either he held out or he didn't.

 

This is crazy talk, to be honest. If a team cuts a player or asks him to take a pay cut, they aren't raked over the coals like this. I know AJ is under contract, but he hasn't held out (skipping voluntary workouts isn't holding out, sorry). Asking for a new contract in the past isn't lack of professionalism. It's part of the business.

 

I just don't like this idea that the players should march in line, no matter what, while the teams decide what's best for the players. They play on non-guaranteed contracts, they can be cut or traded at any moment, their careers can be over in the blink of an eye... No one is looking out for them but them. I don't feel sorry for NFL players; they get paid handsomely, but I disagree with this kind of criticism.

 

The Texans haven't treated AJ well; they've paid him market value for his services, just like any other team would have done.

My entire point is this: Can any other position besides QB & WR whine & moan like self indulgent cry babies & almost always get their demands met in the end? Hades no. 

 

I have Z-E-R-0 sympathy for Andre Johnson period. 

[Qwiz]

1) That's speculative. And like I said, the last time the Texans switched coaches, it didn't pay off, despite the optimism. AJ might believe in the future potential of the Texans, but he doesn't have 6 years to see if O'Brien can get to the playoffs.

 

2) That's one way of looking at it. Or you could say that the Texans have missed the playoffs 81% of the time since AJ has been there, and took a HUGE step backward last season. Perspective matters.

 

What the Colts and Chiefs did is rare; not impossible, but rare. Maybe the Texans have a similar turnaround, but the odds aren't in their favor. If AJ went to a team that has been contending in recent years, and still looks like a contender now (and it doesn't have to be a team with an older QB, it could be the Packers, Chiefs, Eagles, etc.), he'd be in a better position over the next couple of years. That's an assumption, but a reasonable one. Much more reasonable than assuming that the Texans suddenly vault everyone else in the AFC.

 

Also, if Brady or Manning retire in a couple years, AJ will be 35, and on more of a downward trajectory than he is now. He clearly wants to play for a better team NOW; if he were worried about two years from now, he'd be happy staying in Houston.

 

3) You don't need a great RB to win now, IMO. There were lots of really good backs in the draft this year, in later rounds. Again, I really like Foster, but his production is replaceable, at a fraction of the cost. I'm just saying what I would have done, if I were calling the shots. I said this several months ago when people on this board were acting like the Texans can't possibly sniff the playoffs for the next three years. JMO

 

4) Again, 2-14 last year, and lost 13 games in a row. I'm bullish on the Texans, but a 33 year old AJ wanting out of a team that has floundered most of his time there is simply not comparable to a 25 year old QB wanting to ditch the team that's being built around him and that hasn't missed the playoffs in his short career. The Colts are also a team that showed that they could rebound quickly; the Texans haven't shown that. It's not comparable. Sorry.

 

5) Maybe, maybe not. I'm not saying that they were just playing a long game. I was just thinking out loud. Like I said, I would have traded him before the draft. Foster, too. And my regime would have been beaten up in the court of public opinion (which is often wrong), just like the Colts front office took a bunch of heat for cutting over-the-hill guys like Brackett, Clark, Addai and Bullitt (none of whom have produced at any considerable levels since they were cut; three of them haven't played a single snap since then). Just like the Panthers front office got killed for cutting Steve Smith. IF the Texans move AJ, it will be because he demanded to be moved, not because the team decided to jettison the expensive, aging player who has stuck with them through thick and thin for over a decade. So they get what I think are the benefits of trading him, without the negative media. It's a win/win. 

1. True. I don't think Andre is that doubtful of us that he assumes it will take 6 years again but yeah, that's beside the point. Giving us one year to see how things work out, or a few months before the trade deadline would suffice. But I understand his concern, and the whole age thing. Doesn't mean I like it.

 

2. Glass half full or glass half empty. That's what the new culture here is looking to change. Of course Andre can assume that another team will contend better than we will, but I don't think he has to assume we will vault over anyone in the first year. This isn't Super Bowl or bust, which Andre is probably looking for again. We had the worst record in the AFC but the talent that is here is a clearer indicator that we can win sooner rather than later.

 

3. Yeah, can't argue with that. You're right. I wouldn't get rid of Arian but that's just me; I'm not claiming that I'm right or anything, because if I had my way right now a lot of things may have been different.

 

4. The Texans are on a new slate. What we did when Kubiak was here last year is moot. I don't think it is fair to say that based on past performances we aren't likely to bounce back. This is a new era and while it isn't realistic to expect 13-3, it also isn't wise to say 2-14 or 3-13 either just because of past transgressions.

 

5. I think the thing with the Panthers is more that they cut literally all of Cam's receivers, but yeah the Steve Smith cut had to sting. PR does win this battle, but things are going to become strained if we do keep Andre. I'm not sure if every fan would be satisfied at this point but yeah, they wouldn't take much heat. Or they could ship him out now and, you're right, it's a win win.

[Superman]

And bad quarterbacks can be game managers. I'm not sure what you would classify the difference as, and I'm not entirely sure if you think a bad quarterback is better or worse than a game manager. I'm doing nothing that I haven't seen done here or on any other message boards. You're right; Fans always do these sorts of things. How many "Howell can easily replace Bethea, Bethea was a step behind anyway" or "Trent just needed an offseason, he'll be a beast this year" or " Da'Rick Rogers is gonna prove people wrong and he is actually a steal, he's a better wide receiver than people realize". This happens. Fans are always optimistic about their guys, but when one guy is let go or traded, it's always the next man up mentality and the guy that was let go is suddenly the worst in the world. I don't have this mindset with Andre or Schaub. I don't think Andre will be easily replaced at all. Nor do I think we can expect to see the same consistency from Fitzpatrick that Schaub had for years before last year. But I can indeed be optimistic about it because, like you said, nothing has been seen yet. And yet I'm not optimistic at all about the prospect of losing Andre.

 

To the bolded, what??? If I think Alex Smith is a prototypical game manager, and is twice as good as Mark Sanchez, a bad starting QB, then how is it unclear what I think about a game manager vs a bad QB? 

 

Just to remove any doubt: A game manager is better than a bad QB, and I don't believe a bad QB qualifies as a game manager. I do believe, in some instances, that a team can have some success with a bad QB, but it's rare.

 

As for the difference between your comments about your QB vs our safety or RB or 5th WR, isn't it clear? We're talking about YOUR QB, the most important position in team sports. You don't just shrug off your weakness at QB, because in most cases, your success hinges on his ability to make plays and not blow games.

 

You can be optimistic about Fitzpatrick; I was only saying that I don't think he's as good as Alex Smith, specifically because he turns the ball over too much. I don't think he's a bad QB.

 

Also, it would set your team back to lose AJ, but that's obvious. At his age, you need to be replacing him anyways (Hopkins is good, but you need another one). That's not why your "good riddance" surprised me. It's that AJ has suffered through a long stretch of mediocrity in Houston (just like you have, as a fan), and I think his desire to play for a better team now as opposed to two years from now is understandable. I figured Reggie Wayne was on his way out in 2012, and he was in the playoffs every year aside from 2011. 

[Yoshinator]

Where's Johnson gonna go, the Bengals? Andy Dalton collapses in the post season just like Matt Schaub always used to. Why leave Houston for that Cincinnati train wreck on offense with the red rifle running things at the helm? 

 

Lollygager's choice of Cam Newton & the Panthers could work. Good call on that one Lolly! 

Never said the Bengals, I think maybe the Patriots or Eagles would be solid spots. The Panthers would work as well.

[Bluefire4]

If New England pulls this off...

[southwest1]

Never said the Bengals, I think maybe the Patriots or Eagles would be solid spots. The Panthers would work as well.

My mistake then. Sorry. They do [the Bengals] have a great defense & running game though. Dalton sucks in the playoffs though. 

 

Eagles have plenty of firepower on offense already. As much as I respect NE's tradition of winning, the Patriots better not get AJ; no NFL franchise is that lucky or deserves to be IMO.

[Superman]

My entire point is this: Can any other position besides QB & WR whine & moan like self indulgent cry babies & almost always get their demands met in the end? Hades no. 

 

I have Z-E-R-0 sympathy for Andre Johnson period. 

 

No one said you have to have sympathy for him. I don't understand why you're demonizing him.

[southwest1]

No one said you have to have sympathy for him. I don't understand why you're demonizing him.

SW1 is not demeaning AJ; I just expect him to be reasonable if not, logical--Stay put Andre. 

 

My position is set in stone here. You have your stance on AJ & I have mine. Have a nice day Superman.  ;)

[Superman]

1. True. I don't think Andre is that doubtful of us that he assumes it will take 6 years again but yeah, that's beside the point. Giving us one year to see how things work out, or a few months before the trade deadline would suffice. But I understand his concern, and the whole age thing. Doesn't mean I like it.

 

2. Glass half full or glass half empty. That's what the new culture here is looking to change. Of course Andre can assume that another team will contend better than we will, but I don't think he has to assume we will vault over anyone in the first year. This isn't Super Bowl or bust, which Andre is probably looking for again. We had the worst record in the AFC but the talent that is here is a clearer indicator that we can win sooner rather than later.

 

3. Yeah, can't argue with that. You're right. I wouldn't get rid of Arian but that's just me; I'm not claiming that I'm right or anything, because if I had my way right now a lot of things may have been different.

 

4. The Texans are on a new slate. What we did when Kubiak was here last year is moot. I don't think it is fair to say that based on past performances we aren't likely to bounce back. This is a new era and while it isn't realistic to expect 13-3, it also isn't wise to say 2-14 or 3-13 either just because of past transgressions.

 

5. I think the thing with the Panthers is more that they cut literally all of Cam's receivers, but yeah the Steve Smith cut had to sting. PR does win this battle, but things are going to become strained if we do keep Andre. I'm not sure if every fan would be satisfied at this point but yeah, they wouldn't take much heat. Or they could ship him out now and, you're right, it's a win win.

 

Cool deal.

 

I disagree that AJ expects that playing for a different team would guarantee him anything. I think he sees the odds being more in his favor with a different team, and that's not hard to understand. The Pats, for instance, are GOING to be in the playoffs. The Texans have a lot of work to do just to hit .500. That's why the glass half full/empty thing kind of misses the mark. The glass has been 81% empty in AJ's time in Houston. I understand why he's ready for a new glass.

 

I also understand your optimism, and I think it's well placed. I don't agree with your opinion of your QB situation, or how it speaks to your chances of making the playoffs in the near future, but the rest of the team and the overall approach is sound. And you could do a lot worse than Fitzpatrick.

[Qwiz]

To the bolded, what??? If I think Alex Smith is a prototypical game manager, and is twice as good as Mark Sanchez, a bad starting QB, then how is it unclear what I think about a game manager vs a bad QB? 

 

Just to remove any doubt: A game manager is better than a bad QB, and I don't believe a bad QB qualifies as a game manager. I do believe, in some instances, that a team can have some success with a bad QB, but it's rare.

 

As for the difference between your comments about your QB vs our safety or RB or 5th WR, isn't it clear? We're talking about YOUR QB, the most important position in team sports. You don't just shrug off your weakness at QB, because in most cases, your success hinges on his ability to make plays and not blow games.

 

You can be optimistic about Fitzpatrick; I was only saying that I don't think he's as good as Alex Smith, specifically because he turns the ball over too much. I don't think he's a bad QB.

 

Also, it would set your team back to lose AJ, but that's obvious. At his age, you need to be replacing him anyways (Hopkins is good, but you need another one). That's not why your "good riddance" surprised me. It's that AJ has suffered through a long stretch of mediocrity in Houston (just like you have, as a fan), and I think his desire to play for a better team now as opposed to two years from now is understandable. I figured Reggie Wayne was on his way out in 2012, and he was in the playoffs every year aside from 2011. 

My bad. I was just a little confused by separate comments you made in that original post. I think that if a bad quarterback like Sanchez can be a part of a winning organization, then for sure someone like Fitzpatrick who isn't nearly as terrible as Sanchez is could play the game manager role. But I think this portion is being done to death ha. Thanks for clearing things up though.

  Yes, there is quite a difference when we're talking QB versus other players, I'm just saying that it happens in every fanbase, no matter what position we're talking about. Being shocked that I think Fitzpatrick can get over his humps is just a little surprising to me, that's all. I'm not shrugging his impact on this team off; I know that he can be bad, and if he is then so be it. We'll have to be picking high again and maybe then Rick Smith will get the quarterback of the future and we can start again from there, as far as instilling confidence in the fanbase and the players goes. But I also think that sometimes a fresh start is all a player like him needs. He wasn't exactly playing for a steady coach in Buffalo or on a very talented team in Tennessee. Hopefully this team can get the most out of him, if not, no loss.

  Again, I do understand Andre's perspective. But that he has acted so out of character regarding the whole thing and is making this as messy as possible, is disconcerting to me. Keep in mind that I had just heard the news when I typed my good riddance so it was just a human reaction. I still think it best for him to go at this point, but if they somehow convince him to stay and he publicly says that he wants to stay and goes out there and performs like he always does, then I won't have any hard feelings. Don't now, either. Just don't like the way he is handling things, and the switching of teams things is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth regardless of how much sense it makes.

[Superman]

SW1 is not demeaning AJ; I just expect him to be reasonable if not, logical--Stay put Andre. 

 

My position is set in stone here. You have your stance on AJ & I have mine. Have a nice day Superman.  ;)

 

You are demonizing him, actually. And it's not logical for him to stay put; it would be loyal of him, but that's a different topic entirely.

 

You're right, we disagree, and that's cool. 

[GoPats]

Yeah, I am. I don't want someone whose changed and who doesn't want to be here be on this team affecting our new culture. He doesn't want to be a Texan anymore, fine, let him go. We fans have dealt with the same stuff he has, but we are sticking with the team through and through.

 

I can definitely empathize with this. When the Red Sox had to blow up the team two years ago there were a lot of guys who were huge names but I didn't mind seeing them go. Josh Beckett, Gonzales, Crawford, etc-etc. Some of them were instrumental in the 2007 championship but as a fan you expect the players on your favorite team to stick it out, too. Even when things aren't good.

 

Anyway...

 

From what I've heard/read, the biggest hurdle with any of this is a cap hit of something like $11M if the Texans traded him. So that adds to what Houston would need to get in a trade to make it worthwhile. There's no reason they can't stick to their guns and let him hold out, retire, whatever. If they trade him, it'll be out of respect for him and his wishes, but they're be crazy to take pennies on the dollar here. I'd tell other teams that the bidding starts with a 2nd round pick and future considerations...

 

I would love to see him in New England of course. I'd be crazy not to. 

[GoPats]

It actually could of been of been a quick fix, draft bridgewater and you're in contention for the division. Now you're in danger of not having a qb or andre. It might not be a rebuild, but you're not a complete team. You will probably end up like last year and searching for a qb. Not taking Bridgewater and starting Fitz just makes the team a year older before you can get serious about contending. Tom Savage is a longshot who may never start so it's in all likely likelyhood a waste of a year for the Texans, just stating the facts.

 

Bridgewater?

 

Virtually everything I read or heard about the guy prior to the draft was that he's a massive bust risk. All the QBs were. There was no Andrew Luck in this draft. 

 

Bad teams STAY bad by reaching for quarterbacks with high draft picks. For every Luck out there, it seems like there are 10 Jamarcus Russells, Christian Ponders, Blaine Gabberts, etc. 

 

If Houston didn't like any of the QBs in the draft (and neither did I), then why would they waste a chance to get a player like Clowney? 

 

Not arguing with you here, just disagreeing. 

[GAColtsFan]

I understand Andre's frustration, but if you agreed to a contract you should honor it. It's not like ownership can cut a player's pay if he doesn't perform as expected. A trade would hopefully satisfy all party's. The cap hit would be hard to overcome, as GoPats said, but there must be some scenario that the party's could use to resolve the situation.

[Yoshinator]

Bridgewater?

 

Virtually everything I read or heard about the guy prior to the draft was that he's a massive bust risk. All the QBs were. There was no Andrew Luck in this draft. 

 

Bad teams STAY bad by reaching for quarterbacks with high draft picks. For every Luck out there, it seems like there are 10 Jamarcus Russells, Christian Ponders, Blaine Gabberts, etc. 

 

If Houston didn't like any of the QBs in the draft (and neither did I), then why would they waste a chance to get a player like Clowney? 

 

Not arguing with you here, just disagreeing. 

 

Bridgewater?

 

Virtually everything I read or heard about the guy prior to the draft was that he's a massive bust risk. All the QBs were. There was no Andrew Luck in this draft. 

 

Bad teams STAY bad by reaching for quarterbacks with high draft picks. For every Luck out there, it seems like there are 10 Jamarcus Russells, Christian Ponders, Blaine Gabberts, etc. 

 

If Houston didn't like any of the QBs in the draft (and neither did I), then why would they waste a chance to get a player like Clowney? 

 

Not arguing with you here, just disagreeing. 

I know you're not arguing. I meant trade up for Bridgewater at the end of the 1st after grabbing Clowney. They knew he wouldn't fall to them in the 2nd and someone would trade up to get him, so they should of traded something like a 2nd and 4th to get him.

[Qwiz]

I can definitely empathize with this. When the Red Sox had to blow up the team two years ago there were a lot of guys who were huge names but I didn't mind seeing them go. Josh Beckett, Gonzales, Crawford, etc-etc. Some of them were instrumental in the 2007 championship but as a fan you expect the players on your favorite team to stick it out, too. Even when things aren't good.

Anyway...

From what I've heard/read, the biggest hurdle with any of this is a cap hit of something like $11M if the Texans traded him. So that adds to what Houston would need to get in a trade to make it worthwhile. There's no reason they can't stick to their guns and let him hold out, retire, whatever. If they trade him, it'll be out of respect for him and his wishes, but they're be crazy to take pennies on the dollar here. I'd tell other teams that the bidding starts with a 2nd round pick and future considerations...

I would love to see him in New England of course. I'd be crazy not to.

Ohh man imagine that duo. It'd be like Manning and Thomas (the receiver) in Denver. Andre is the kind of player Brady hasn't had since Randy Moss. I of course hope that he gets traded to the NFC if he gets traded at all, far away from direct competition ;)

[jvan1973]

The 2000 Ravens won without one or a slightly average one. Their entire championship year hinged on Ray Lewis, Rod Woodson, & Shannon Sharpe. QB Trent Dilfer was not an elite QB; he just didn't turn the ball over. If Ryan Fitzpatrick practices ball security, Houston could easily make the playoffs.

So all they need is one of the greatest defenses in the history of the game. Gotcha, good luck with that Houston

[jvan1973]

My entire point is this: Can any other position besides QB & WR whine & moan like self indulgent cry babies & almost always get their demands met in the end? Hades no.

I have Z-E-R-0 sympathy for Andre Johnson period.

Yes, cornerbacks, elite left tackles, dominant pass rushing DE and OLBS. Many players threaten to hold out. It's a business, the owners and GMs play their games as well.

[GoPats]

I know you're not arguing. I meant trade up for Bridgewater at the end of the 1st after grabbing Clowney. They knew he wouldn't fall to them in the 2nd and someone would trade up to get him, so they should of traded something like a 2nd and 4th to get him.

 

Gotcha.

 

If they didn't like him though I'm betting they didn't want to use a 2nd either. 

[Flying Elvis]

Good riddance.

One man's trash is another man's treasure.

[southwest1]

You are demonizing him, actually. And it's not logical for him to stay put; it would be loyal of him, but that's a different topic entirely.

 

You're right, we disagree, and that's cool. 

Superman with all due respect...You do not have ESP nor can you read my thoughts. I do not presume to diminish your point of view on things sir; please grant me the same courtesy. Thank you. 

 

Yes, we disagree here & I appreciate that you are "cool" with it, but your 1st sentence was way over the top. Please...

[Superman]

I understand Andre's frustration, but if you agreed to a contract you should honor it. It's not like ownership can cut a player's pay if he doesn't perform as expected. A trade would hopefully satisfy all party's. The cap hit would be hard to overcome, as GoPats said, but there must be some scenario that the party's could use to resolve the situation.

It's not?

[MTC]

It's because they don't have a franchise quarterback. 

[Superman]

Superman with all due respect...You do not have ESP nor can you read my thoughts. I do not presume to diminish your point of view on things sir; please grant me the same courtesy. Thank you.

Yes, we disagree here & I appreciate that you are "cool" with it, but your 1st sentence was way over the top. Please...

It's a good thing I don't need ESP to read your posts...

None of this changes how teams deal with players.

I respect your right to your opinion. I don't know why you think me disagreeing with you is anything other than me disagreeing with you.

[southwest1]

Yes, cornerbacks, elite left tackles, dominant pass rushing DE and OLBS. Many players threaten to hold out. It's a business, the owners and GMs play their games as well.

True Jvan, but do CBs & left tackles always get their initial asking price salary demand wise? With the exception of CB Darrelle Revis, I'd say no when compared to QBs & WR's on average. 

[Jules]

I called him to the Pats a while ago if this continued on with his unhappiness....

 

But, I am also not sure how much NE is willing to pay or be willing to pay. NE does need WR help though.....and if Gronk gets hurt again (seems almost a given since he is like the Bob Sanders on offense) they will struggle.

 

And Houston sometimes seems dumb enough to me to actually trade within the conference to a team like NE. People say Carolina too but Andre will have a lot more competition to make the playoffs there too since New Orleans I think is going to win that division this year and Brees is just flat out better then Cam Newton. And you never know what could happen with Atlanta/Tampa Bay.

 

In NE you really won't have to look over your shoulder at another division rival knocking on the door as hard. He probably already thinks the Colts will win the South anyway like most do. And why wouldn't people think that? 10-6 would probably be more then enough at the moment to win the South.

[akcolt]

Why would he want to leave the have O'Brien rookie head coach from the Bellichick coaching tree that has managed a .378 winning percentage as head coaches.

 

O'Brien went out and got the QB he wanted Fitz

 

RB is coming of back surgery not to mention turning 28 and has had a lot of touches the last 4 years

 

The dude has maybe a couple of good years left. Houston never brought in a #2 they have Hopkins now. He can see the writing on the wall IF Savage is an NFL QB which is a big if it's going to take a couple of years for him to compete at a high level. He wans to win while he still can. Carolina is the place he should be give Cam a real target see how good he really is.

[southwest1]

So all they need is one of the greatest defenses in the history of the game. Gotcha, good luck with that Houston

I was merely pointing out 1 example of an NFL team that won a SB with an non-elite QB. That's all. I will agree that winning with an elite QB is an asset, but not always mandatory. Baltimore set the modern day precedent for this very scenario. 

[GAColtsFan]

It's not?

No, Ownership cannot cut a players PAY ( reduce his PAY because of performance ), they have to abide by the contract. Unless Andre is traded he should report to the upcoming Texans training camp or retire.

[Superman]

No, Ownership cannot cut a players PAY ( reduce his PAY because of performance ), they have to abide by the contract. Unless Andre is traded he should report to the upcoming Texans training camp or retire.

So you're unaware of the players who have been cut outright, or asked to take a paycut in order to stay on the team?

 

http://www.post-gazette.com/frontpage/2014/03/10/Steelers-reduce-Ike-Taylor-s-salary-from-7M-to-2-75-M/stories/201403100199

Edited July 10, 2014 by Superman

[southwest1]

I called him to the Pats a while ago if this continued on with his unhappiness....

 

But, I am also not sure how much NE is willing to pay or be willing to pay. NE does need WR help though.....and if Gronk gets hurt again (seems almost a given since he is like the Bob Sanders on offense) they will struggle.

 

And Houston sometimes seems dumb enough to me to actually trade within the conference to a team like NE. People say Carolina too but Andre will have a lot more competition to make the playoffs there too since New Orleans I think is going to win that division this year and Brees is just flat out better then Cam Newton. And you never know what could happen with Atlanta/Tampa Bay.

 

In NE you really won't have to look over your shoulder at another division rival knocking on the door as hard. He probably already thinks the Colts will win the South anyway like most do. And why wouldn't people think that? 10-6 would probably be more then enough at the moment to win the South.

Good point on the competition level in NFC South with Sean Payton in New Orleans & Lovie Smith in Tampa Bay Jules. I've always respected Lovie as a head coach & even as a DC in St. Louis. Thanks for the reminder. 

 

I was still in epic disaster Greg Schiano mode in Tampa Bay I guess. LOL! 

[Gavin]

I don't blame him

[akcolt]

My mistake then. Sorry. They do [the Bengals] have a great defense & running game though. Dalton sucks in the playoffs though. 

 

Eagles have plenty of firepower on offense already. As much as I respect NE's tradition of winning, the Patriots better not get AJ; no NFL franchise is that lucky or deserves to be IMO.

The Bengals are quietly building a good team. The running game is just coming along Bernard was a rookie last year and the law firm was still getting carries. They got the kid from LSU in this years draft should make for some thunder and lighting.

 

They need someone to take some heat off of AJ Green. You stop him you stop the Bengals has pretty much been the case. Maybe not the case this year Eifert and Bernard have a year under their belts Hill should take over for the law firm still surprised they haven't upgraded that second WR spot Although it is Jones's third year maybe a break out year.... fantasy sleeper. I don't see them going for Johnson but who knows.

 

I for one would like to see Foles after a year of film has been collected not saying he won't or he can't but interested to see where that goes.

[amfootball]

My bad. I was just a little confused by separate comments you made in that original post. I think that if a bad quarterback like Sanchez can be a part of a winning organization, then for sure someone like Fitzpatrick who isn't nearly as terrible as Sanchez is could play the game manager role. But I think this portion is being done to death ha. Thanks for clearing things up though.

  Yes, there is quite a difference when we're talking QB versus other players, I'm just saying that it happens in every fanbase, no matter what position we're talking about. Being shocked that I think Fitzpatrick can get over his humps is just a little surprising to me, that's all. I'm not shrugging his impact on this team off; I know that he can be bad, and if he is then so be it. We'll have to be picking high again and maybe then Rick Smith will get the quarterback of the future and we can start again from there, as far as instilling confidence in the fanbase and the players goes. But I also think that sometimes a fresh start is all a player like him needs. He wasn't exactly playing for a steady coach in Buffalo or on a very talented team in Tennessee. Hopefully this team can get the most out of him, if not, no loss.

  Again, I do understand Andre's perspective. But that he has acted so out of character regarding the whole thing and is making this as messy as possible, is disconcerting to me. Keep in mind that I had just heard the news when I typed my good riddance so it was just a human reaction. I still think it best for him to go at this point, but if they somehow convince him to stay and he publicly says that he wants to stay and goes out there and performs like he always does, then I won't have any hard feelings. Don't now, either. Just don't like the way he is handling things, and the switching of teams things is going to leave a bad taste in everyone's mouth regardless of how much sense it makes.

I agree with your last paragraph. Saying he wants to play for another team publicly is very unprofessional. We get that he is unhappy but he is acting out of character. I wonder if it has to do with Bill O'Brien who could be pretty tough. He is a no nonsense guy and perhaps he told Andre that they are keeping him and he his playing for the Texans in 2014 and Andre is getting peeved. I could totally see this scenario as Andre has never done this before. Perhaps he feels he is not being heard or considered. Just a thought.

[southwest1]

The Bengals are quietly building a good team. The running game is just coming along Bernard was a rookie last year and the law firm was still getting carries. They got the kid from LSU in this years draft should make for some thunder and lighting.

 

They need someone to take some heat off of AJ Green. You stop him you stop the Bengals has pretty much been the case. Maybe not the case this year Eifert and Bernard have a year under their belts Hill should take over for the law firm still surprised they haven't upgraded that second WR spot Although it is Jones's third year maybe a break out year.... fantasy sleeper. I don't see them going for Johnson but who knows.

 

I for one would like to see Foles after a year of film has been collected not saying he won't or he can't but interested to see where that goes.

Yes akcolt, I do agree that AJ Green appears to be Andy Dalton's favorite target & maybe new OC Hue Jackson can help the red rifle improve in November/December. I don't know. Andy's got learn to not lock in on his 1st read so much. He needs to spread the ball around more. Yes, the bengals running backs are a nice group without question with Ellis & Bernard. What's that LSU's rookie's name again? I forget. 

[Superman]

I agree with your last paragraph. Saying he wants to play for another team publicly is very unprofessional. We get that he is unhappy but he is acting out of character. I wonder if it has to do with Bill O'Brien who could be pretty tough. He is a no nonsense guy and perhaps he told Andre that they are keeping him and he his playing for the Texans in 2014 and Andre is getting peeved. I could totally see this scenario as Andre has never done this before. Perhaps he feels he is not being heard or considered. Just a thought.

 

Just a nitpick, but AJ hasn't said anything publicly.

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/andre-johnson-doesn-t-know-if-he-ll-play-for-houston-texans-this-season-125255875.html