Grigs Expects Lance Louis to Compete for Starting Job

[C0LT5]

Two words, Toler and Bradshaw.  Do not say it wasn't Bradshaw's feet.  Bradshaw was still hurt and that affected the team.

 

Jerraud Powers went to Arizona and played the full year. This was the first time he was ever able to do this, as I'm sure you're aware of.

[Adonai]

 

Lance Louis - G - Colts

Colts GM Ryan Grigson expects OG Lance Louis to compete for a starting job.

 

 

He actually never said that...at least that the way it is implied.

I think right now he wants to see if Louis can...more than he has a great expectation that he will.

[jvan1973]

I'm sure he prepares like a starter, but he's not competing for the starting job and he knows it

Ok, thanks. What about the other 89 guys?

[Horse Shoe Heaven]

Louis is going to come in and compete for a job. I believe Thornton & Thomas start if healthy, & Reitz & Louis compete as backups. We we draft a guard, he or one of them probable get cut. Thats how I see it! I think we take a safety or corner with all they have done so for with our 2nd round pick!

[Smonroe]

No we can't.

 

Regarding which player?  I said Toler was overpaid based on what we got from him.  I also said if he has a great year, then he's worth the contract.

 

Bradshaw didn't cost that much, and he was a gamble.  Worth gambling again this season.

 

If you're going to disagree, at least state your point.  Unless you're dudeski, then all is forgiven.

[C0LT5]

Regarding which player?  I said Toler was overpaid based on what we got from him.  I also said if he has a great year, then he's worth the contract.

 

Bradshaw didn't cost that much, and he was a gamble.  Worth gambling again this season.

 

If you're going to disagree, at least state your point.  Unless you're dudeski, then all is forgiven.

 

I was talking about Toler. I'm not going to say we over payed for a player based off of 1 year. The contract was for 3 years, so we need to base it off that. I agree with Bradshaw on both seasons.

 

My main point is I hate blanket statements. If I ever say "We can all agree on" just have me banned from the forum, unless we win the Super Bowl again then we can all agree on that we're the Champions.

[Smonroe]

I was talking about Toler. I'm not going to say we over payed for a player based off of 1 year. The contract was for 3 years, so we need to base it off that. I agree with Bradshaw on both seasons.

 

My main point is I hate blanket statements. If I ever say "We can all agree on" just have me banned from the forum, unless we win the Super Bowl again then we can all agree on that we're the Champions.

Got ya. I agree. But taking emotion aside, and without naming any player, you pay a guy X amount and he plays Y games (or snaps). He's being paid X/Y, right? You can objectively compare that number to other guys who play the same spot and rank them. Guys like Reggie, Bradshaw, Toler, Thomas, Allen, etal, were all overpaid. I know it doesn't take in to account past or future play, etc. but it is a hard fact.

Using that formula, Peyton's pay in 2011 was undefined... Sorry, I'll tone down the engineer in me now.

[C0LT5]

Got ya. I agree. But taking emotion aside, and without naming any player, you pay a guy X amount and he plays Y games (or snaps). He's being paid X/Y, right? You can objectively compare that number to other guys who play the same spot and rank them. Guys like Reggie, Bradshaw, Toler, Thomas, Allen, etal, were all overpaid. I know it doesn't take in to account past or future play, etc. but it is a hard fact.

Using that formula, Peyton's pay in 2011 was undefined... Sorry, I'll tone down the engineer in me now.

 

True and for 2011 Peyton would be the most over payed player ever in the NFL, but he did play other years of the contract.

[ponyboy]

YouTube man, its where you can truly discern talent

 

Cool, we have a Colts insider on the forum!    I'm assuming the opinions you've expressed on the forum have come from being in camp every day and not from viewing video broadcast footage of games or publicly available coaches film.  Even so, it seems a bit condescending to belittle those who don't have your insider access.

[jvan1973]

Cool, we have a Colts insider on the forum! I'm assuming the opinions you've expressed on the forum have come from being in camp every day and not from viewing video broadcast footage of games or publicly available coaches film. Even so, it seems a bit condescending to belittle those who don't have your insider access.

How was i being condescending?

[ponyboy]

How was i being condescending?

 

I seem to recall you being dismissive of Gavin’s analysis in the past because he bases his it off video footage (with your same youtube references).  I can’t think of how any fan, other than an insider, could form opinions based on anything other than the video we all watch.  And Gavin seems to watch a lot of it.

 

Saying “Youtube man…” seemed to be another instance of you trying to belittle his opinion.  It seemed condescending to me.  Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that comment.

[jvan1973]

I seem to recall you being dismissive of Gavin’s analysis in the past because he bases his it off video footage (with your same youtube references). I can’t think of how any fan, other than an insider, could form opinions based on anything other than the video we all watch. And Gavin seems to watch a lot of it.

Saying “Youtube man…” seemed to be another instance of you trying to belittle his opinion. It seemed condescending to me. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by that comment.

I think Gavin provides excellent analysis at times. He does however go a little over board on thinking his talent evaluation is better than those who dedicate their lives to their profession. Its embarrassing at times.

[dudeski]

*Shrugs* That's how I see it, beat a team then you're better than them

We're 1-0 against Peyton's Broncos. So until they beat us, we're better than them

nope

[Gavin]

I think Gavin provides excellent analysis at times. He does however go a little over board on thinking his talent evaluation is better than those who dedicate their lives to their profession. Its embarrassing at times.

Nah thats not how I mean to come across (though I suppose some of my snarky responses...especially to some of your posts towards me about this very issue seems like thats how I want to come off..its not).......I know very well coaches have more at there disposal to base there decision then I do....though they have access to the same All 22 that you or I do (if you were to pay for it of course), I also know they dont always base there decision on the here and now, But I think Grigs has shown in most of the moves he has made that he wants to be competitive for SB's now as well as the future, Jones, D Jackson, Hakeem Nicks, Laron Landry, Ricky Jean Francois, re-signing Reggie in the beginning of all this, Bringing back Bradshaw are all win now moves, Grigson even made the comment in one of his recent interviews that the goal was next years SB....Obviously every team will almost always tell you thats the goal but obviously some teams are closer then others.....such as us, we may not get there(odds are good we dont) but on paper we are competitive and it should translate to the field provided the team stays reasonably healthy....Back to my point.....Grigson made alot of win now moves.....yet when I watch the All 22 on Costa as well as Louis I just dont see what Grigson saw in either one of these players to warrant not going after an O Lineman that most consider significantly better(All indications to this point say he didn't). With both players I called it like I saw it as well as how scouting reports saw it, I dont ever just base my opinion off of my opinion only, I look at scouting reports...I might disagree on a scouting report.....not all scouting reports are the same, some see things differently. Moral of this long post, I know I could be very wrong about both of these players.....and I could be right...I was right on Mcglynn and Satele...at least give me that.....But really when it comes down to it no 2 people(that goes for scouts and GM's to) will agree on a players play exactly, They are all just opinions just like mine, Again...I could be very wrong....I hope I am...I hope Grigson is right...He has more info then I do...That dont make him right though...what will make him right is both or one of those players translating it to the field if it comes to that, I've gone on record as saying I think Louis is a serviceable backup at Guard....I also wont change my opinion about me thinking that neither player will prove to be suitable O Linemen if they have to start for a lengthy amount of time. Just my opinion, I hope Im wrong

[schwamm]

We shouldn't all agree until we actually see them play. Sure, I would love to have Mack, and I'm all for going all in for the best Oline we can get. But aside from Mack, are we really sure the FAs available are that much better than what we have? No one can say yet.

One thing we should all agree on is that the Colts have a very wise capologist. Some big decisions have to be made to keep guys in the next couple years.

Good post. I'd also ask people to recall the situation the team was in when Satele and McGlynn were acquired. Gavin, you can bust on Grigs for his OLine evaluation skills, but it seems like selective memory to me.

No cap room, almost all positions were needs... knock on the players all you want, but Grigs did well just to complete a roster in 2012, and it seems like we've all forgotten that. The fact that the Colts can move on from these guys now shows how well he's done bringing the overall level of talent up MILES from where it was just 2 years ago.

[Superman]

Good post. I'd also ask people to recall the situation the team was in when Satele and McGlynn were acquired. Gavin, you can bust on Grigs for his OLine evaluation skills, but it seems like selective memory to me.

No cap room, almost all positions were needs... knock on the players all you want, but Grigs did well just to complete a roster in 2012, and it seems like we've all forgotten that. The fact that the Colts can move on from these guys now shows how well he's done bringing the overall level of talent up MILES from where it was just 2 years ago.

 

Two comments:

 

1) In Grigson's defense, Satele wasn't nearly as terrible prior to coming to the Colts. He wasn't a world beater, but he had a reasonably good year in 2011, especially toward the end of the year. Then he got hurt, and pretty much stayed hurt his entire time here, and played horribly, and we all know the rest. But he didn't sign a guy with a history of being a bum, nor did he expect him to be a long time anchor on the offensive line. 

 

2) As a demerit to Grigson, he kept Freeney on the roster, and got very little from him, especially in relation to his pay. Grigson did a good job putting together a competitive roster, with all the turnover and the cap constraints. But he kept himself up against the cap with the Freeney decision.

[Gavin]

Good post. I'd also ask people to recall the situation the team was in when Satele and McGlynn were acquired. Gavin, you can bust on Grigs for his OLine evaluation skills, but it seems like selective memory to me.

No cap room, almost all positions were needs... knock on the players all you want, but Grigs did well just to complete a roster in 2012, and it seems like we've all forgotten that. The fact that the Colts can move on from these guys now shows how well he's done bringing the overall level of talent up MILES from where it was just 2 years ago.

I know how far the team has come since then(from losing 15 players, 7 starters, 40 new additions, 13 of which is still on the team)Just like I know just because he did great in 2012 doesn't mean he is above reproach in 2014, Again....Great job in 2012...But expectations are different now and he would tell you the same, He himself even talks of the SB next year so I dont think he is resting on how well he did in 2012

[jvan1973]

Two comments:

1) In Grigson's defense, Satele wasn't nearly as terrible prior to coming to the Colts. He wasn't a world beater, but he had a reasonably good year in 2011, especially toward the end of the year. Then he got hurt, and pretty much stayed hurt his entire time here, and played horribly, and we all know the rest. But he didn't sign a guy with a history of being a bum, nor did he expect him to be a long time anchor on the offensive line.

2) As a demerit to Grigson, he kept Freeney on the roster, and got very little from him, especially in relation to his pay. Grigson did a good job putting together a competitive roster, with all the turnover and the cap constraints. But he kept himself up against the cap with the Freeney decision.

I have a feeling the Freeney decision may have been Irsay. Its the only thing i can think of.

[Superman]

I have a feeling the Freeney decision may have been Irsay. Its the only thing i can think of.

 

Seemed like a legacy decision, given the other changes that were made that offseason. But they didn't even try to negotiate a pay cut, according to reports. This is hindsight, but I fully expected them to do something with Freeney's contract, and they didn't.

[schwamm]

I know how far the team has come since then(from losing 15 players, 7 starters, 40 new additions, 13 of which is still on the team)Just like I know just because he did great in 2012 doesn't mean he is above reproach in 2014, Again....Great job in 2012...But expectations are different now and he would tell you the same, He himself even talks of the SB next year so I dont think he is resting on how well he did in 2012

Sounds like we are in agreement on expectations. I'm just saying you can't make a claim that Grigson's OLine evaluation ability is suspect based on Satele and McGlynn... at least not without understanding the context in which they were brought to the team. They weren't bad decisions or bad evaluations at the time... they were necessary ones.

[schwamm]

Seemed like a legacy decision, given the other changes that were made that offseason. But they didn't even try to negotiate a pay cut, according to reports. This is hindsight, but I fully expected them to do something with Freeney's contract, and they didn't.

I have always agreed with your take on Freeney. With the decisiveness Grigs displayed at all other spots on the roster, that one seemed out of place to me.

[TKnight24]

I've been having this itch lately. This itch that someone from the CFL is about to be in a uniform soon

[Gavin]

Sounds like we are in agreement on expectations. I'm just saying you can't make a claim that Grigson's OLine evaluation ability is suspect based on Satele and McGlynn... at least not without understanding the context in which they were brought to the team. They weren't bad decisions or bad evaluations at the time... they were necessary ones.

Not really necessary ones in my opinion, He was already familiar with Mcglynn because he played for the Eagles while Grigson was there, Matt Birk......a much better Center then Satele signed with the Ravens for 2.75 mill less then Satele did, Less guaranteed money to I believe http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/2012/center/

 

Cant seem to find what Mcglynn signed for on there

[schwamm]

Not really necessary ones in my opinion, He was already familiar with Mcglynn because he played for the Eagles while Grigson was there, Matt Birk......a much better Center then Satele signed with the Ravens for 2.75 mill less then Satele did, Less guaranteed money to I believe http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/2012/center/

Cant seem to find what Mcglynn signed for on there

Satele appeared to be a young, low risk, decent upside grab at the time. Hindsight is always a brilliant evaluation tool.

[Gavin]

Satele appeared to be a young, low risk, decent upside grab at the time. Hindsight is always a brilliant evaluation tool.

It wasn't hindsight for me at the time, I mean I get that its done and over, which is obviously good now but (and this isn't me bragging) I watched alot of his games with the Raiders in years past on the All 22......He wasn't likely to work out from the start, Short arms and inconsistent technique and strength was easy to see on film, In all honesty a poor O Lineman sticks out like a sore thumb....as we all found out

[jvan1973]

Not really necessary ones in my opinion, He was already familiar with Mcglynn because he played for the Eagles while Grigson was there, Matt Birk......a much better Center then Satele signed with the Ravens for 2.75 mill less then Satele did, Less guaranteed money to I believe http://www.spotrac.com/free-agents/nfl/2012/center/

Cant seem to find what Mcglynn signed for on there

I don't think Matt Birk was interested in being part of a complete rebuild at that point in his career. He went to a much better situation for himself in Baltimore

[YOUR GM]

Maybe part of the reason Grigson isn't pulling the trigger on a center in free agency this year is BECAUSE his evaluation was so far off base the last time he ponied up and paid for one

[TKnight24]

Maybe part of the reason Grigson isn't pulling the trigger on a center in free agency this year is BECAUSE his evaluation was so far off base the last time he ponied up and paid for one

Or maybe he realizes Alex Mack isn't worth $10 million+ for one year

[schwamm]

In 2012 Grigs had a Ford Fiesta kind of budget to fill his garage. Since then, he's been working to diligently upgrade his cars, but I don't see the logic in being all * that a couple of the Fiestas didn't have all the bells and whistles of a Porsche 911.

The fact that the Fords didn't magically become Porsches doesn't mean Grigs doesn't have skills in evaluating 911s. In fact, the problem may only be that he doesn't have the skills at identifying Fiestas that can be upgraded to run like 911s. But how many car enthusiasts are?

[NewEra]

In 2012 Grigs had a Ford Fiesta kind of budget to fill his garage. Since then, he's been working to diligently upgrade his cars, but I don't see the logic in being all * that a couple of the Fiestas didn't have all the bells and whistles of a Porsche 911.

The fact that the Fords didn't magically become Porsches doesn't mean Grigs doesn't have skills in evaluating 911s. In fact, the problem may only be that he doesn't have the skills at identifying Fiestas that can be upgraded to run like 911s. But how many car enthusiasts are?

Well maybe he'll turn into a 67 gto or a 69 camero I'd even be cool with a 66 chevelle!

[schwamm]

Or a (Tony) Yugo.

[YOUR GM]

Or maybe he realizes Alex Mack isn't worth $10 million+ for one year

Didn't realize Alex Mack was the only center in the league, all of the sudden

[TKnight24]

Didn't realize Alex Mack was the only center in the league, all of the sudden

Only FA center everyone cared about. Isn't Goodwin & Le Puente still sitting out there doing nothing?

Grigson said he looked at them all, none caught his eye. And apparently the 2 I mentioned haven't caught other eyes either if they're still sitting there

[TKnight24]

In 2012 Grigs had a Ford Fiesta kind of budget to fill his garage. Since then, he's been working to diligently upgrade his cars, but I don't see the logic in being all * that a couple of the Fiestas didn't have all the bells and whistles of a Porsche 911.

The fact that the Fords didn't magically become Porsches doesn't mean Grigs doesn't have skills in evaluating 911s. In fact, the problem may only be that he doesn't have the skills at identifying Fiestas that can be upgraded to run like 911s. But how many car enthusiasts are?

Are we still talking about NFL players?

[gacker65]

all players get hurt at some point, there is no way around it

Why take the chance when options are there that is just as good.

[gacker65]

So, you think on top of everything else a coach has to deal with, you think they also consider a player's previous years injury history when deciding if he plays in the current season?

Not Coach Pagano's problem, that is what Grigson is for.  Grigson needs to start looking at that.

[Dustin]

Should let Reitz compete for a starting job.

[gacker65]

Jerraud Powers went to Arizona and played the full year. This was the first time he was ever able to do this, as I'm sure you're aware of.

Yes, I am.  While here, he was only a part time player until the his last year.  He got hurt in the last year and missed time.  Louis got hurt in Chicago, rehabilitated, went to Miami and could not cut it and was released. Makes you wonder why, especially as Miami needed O-lineman.

[YOUR GM]

Only FA center everyone cared about. Isn't Goodwin & Le Puente still sitting out there doing nothing?

Grigson said he looked at them all, none caught his eye. And apparently the 2 I mentioned haven't caught other eyes either if they're still sitting there

He's not even a free agent, and he's the only center people HERE care about because he's the biggest name.

Because the other centers haven't been signed right away doesn't mean teams aren't interested. Maybe they're waiting to see how the draft shakes out before they make a move. The reason I'm worried about us is because Grigson has already made it clear he doesn't plan to do anything else with the line in free agency, despite the talent that's still out there. If we struggle at center again this year and once again have to watch guys like Goodwin and De La Puente go to other teams and play at a high level, I don't see how you can make anymore excuses for Grigson. This season will tell it all, in my opinion

[lollygagger8]

Matt Miller saying "Louis looks like a high-level backup or low-level starter." isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But hey, we need quality depth, and Louis seems to be a step in the right direction.