Luck favors bringing Jonathan Martin to Indy

[TKnight24]

When does free agency OFFICIALLY start? Like when can we sign players? Not our players, other players

[esmort]

Trash talk is one thing, when it turns personal it is another.  It is easy to get in an O-lineman's head when you are talking about his sister and mother and using their name.  They start playing with emotions and lose their head.  When that happens, you own him.

As I said in original post, I do not condone bullying and what happened in the locker room was exactly that.  My question has to do with his on the field play when opposing Defenses get their shot at him on the field.

 

I agree ... Martin won't receive the standard run of the mill trash talk anymore ... The report basically provides every opponent that Martin lines up against with a "blueprint" on exactly what buttons to push to get in his head.

 

I can only imagine what would happen when he lines up against a defender that was going to get the better of him a significant amount of time anyway based on talent, now give that defender the extra ammunition to to know exactly what his mental weak points are to use against him; especially after just beating him badly on a play.  That's just a meltdown and another trip to the mental hospital waiting to happen.

[Defjamz26]

I think everyone was guilty in the Martin case. Martin should have spoken up sooner or stood up for himself, but clearly Richie is a piece of work considering the Pearl Harbor comments he made. But why not have a depth player. Miami better just not try and fleece us and just release him so we can sign him. I wouldn't mind at all.

[NewColtsFan]

So our Online coaches are so good that they will turn around Martins so far less then stellar career ???

We must have the best O-line coaches in the league. Its too bad they couldnt get more from the players they had, but if they can help Martin .......

 

The Colts coaches don't have to "turn his career around..."

 

Martin would not come to Indy as a starter.    That's why we have Castanzo and Cherilous.

 

He'd come as our 3rd tackle and he'd be an upgrade over any other player we have or could get to be our 3rd tackle.

 

He's a back-up.    He's not a starter.    And he's good enough to be a quality back-up for the Colts, or any other team.....

[SteelCityColt]

Trash talk is one thing, when it turns personal it is another.  It is easy to get in an O-lineman's head when you are talking about his sister and mother and using their name.  They start playing with emotions and lose their head.  When that happens, you own him.

As I said in original post, I do not condone bullying and what happened in the locker room was exactly that.  My question has to do with his on the field play when opposing Defenses get their shot at him on the field.

 

 

I agree ... Martin won't receive the standard run of the mill trash talk anymore ... The report basically provides every opponent that Martin lines up against with a "blueprint" on exactly what buttons to push to get in his head.

 

I can only imagine what would happen when he lines up against a defender that was going to get the better of him a significant amount of time anyway based on talent, now give that defender the extra ammunition to to know exactly what his mental weak points are to use against him; especially after just beating him badly on a play.  That's just a meltdown and another trip to the mental hospital waiting to happen.

 

 

I think you're both missing that there is a massive psychological difference to getting trash talk on the field and what went on in Miami. In the first situation you're mentally (and physically if your'e talking brain chemistry) better prepared as you'll already be in "combat" mode. Are you telling me that even before Martin's plight came to light that he never had a reference to his Momma made on a field of play? Add in to that the relatively short length of time and even better if he's got actual team mates to support him he might be able to brush it off. Plus nothing shuts up trash talkers like beating them .

 

Compare to this to a length of time that stretched to well over a year, and in which the people he should have been able to trust slowly ground him down then that's where you're going to get a cafeteria like snap. If you read the report you see how Incognito at times was quite friendly to Martin and in fact both refer to him as his "bipolar" friend. To me this is much more of a head screw than if someone is constantly in your face. The only thing i can think that it is akin psychologically (before people get on the moral high horse) is domestic abuse. Someone who you trust, and have a relationship with (platonic in this case before we go down the Michael Sam route!) over a course of time abuses you mentally and physically. 

 

Again reading the report you can see Martin has had issues before with social groups and situations but it also shows during his tenure at Stanford, when surrounded by a good group of players he was able to flourish as a player and a person. I believe we have such a group and atmosphere here, I'm not advocating that he should be a pick up to be a starter by any means but really it makes business sense to pick him up and kick the tyres. 

[esmort]

I think you're both missing that there is a massive psychological difference to getting trash talk on the field and what went on in Miami. In the first situation you're mentally (and physically if your'e talking brain chemistry) better prepared as you'll already be in "combat" mode. Are you telling me that even before Martin's plight came to light that he never had a reference to his Momma made on a field of play? Add in to that the relatively short length of time and even better if he's got actual team mates to support him he might be able to brush it off. Plus nothing shuts up trash talkers like beating them .

 

Compare to this to a length of time that stretched to well over a year, and in which the people he should have been able to trust slowly ground him down then that's where you're going to get a cafeteria like snap. If you read the report you see how Incognito at times was quite friendly to Martin and in fact both refer to him as his "bipolar" friend. To me this is much more of a head screw than if someone is constantly in your face. The only thing i can think that it is akin psychologically (before people get on the moral high horse) is domestic abuse. Someone who you trust, and have a relationship with (platonic in this case before we go down the Michael Sam route!) over a course of time abuses you mentally and physically. 

 

Again reading the report you can see Martin has had issues before with social groups and situations but it also shows during his tenure at Stanford, when surrounded by a good group of players he was able to flourish as a player and a person. I believe we have such a group and atmosphere here, I'm not advocating that he should be a pick up to be a starter by any means but really it makes business sense to pick him up and kick the tyres. 

 

I realize there is a difference, but there is also a difference between "generic mom trash talk" or trash talk in general and knowing exactly which trash talk buttons to use and being able to use ones that already are stuck in is his head.  He has obviously has some mental issues and has shown he has trouble forgetting bad plays; I don't think it would be as hard as you think for a defensive player to reopen those wounds at least enough to get in his head and effect his play.

 

As far as just "kicking the tires goes" he does not bring enough to the table to even risk opening that can of worms.  Who knows how hard it would be to get rid of him when you have your franchise QB in his corner, as well as the media waiting to analyze why you cut him, and did the Colts give him enough time to get over what happened to him, and on top if that I don't know how confident I am about some personnel decisions being totally objective.  IMO his skill does not warrant the risk or possible headaches.

[SteelCityColt]

I realize there is a difference, but there is also a difference between "generic mom trash talk" or trash talk in general and knowing exactly which trash talk buttons to use and being able to use ones that already are stuck in is his head.  He has obviously has some mental issues and has shown he has trouble forgetting bad plays; I don't think it would be as hard as you think for a defensive player to reopen those wounds at least enough to get in his head and effect his play.

 

As far as just "kicking the tires goes" he does not bring enough to the table to even risk opening that can of worms.  Who knows how hard it would be to get rid of him when you have your franchise QB in his corner, as well as the media waiting to analyze why you cut him, and did the Colts give him enough time to get over what happened to him, and on top if that I don't know how confident I am about some personnel decisions being totally objective.  IMO his skill does not warrant the risk or possible headaches.

 

Good points and well made. I think for the first though that we can armchair shrink all we want, I guess it comes down to Martin himself. As others have said he's not made any indication (that I've seen) of wanting to play again so this could all be a mute point. 

 

My apologies if it seems like I firing a shot against your bow. I'm getting very grumpy as I approach 30

[esmort]

Good points and well made. I think for the first though that we can armchair shrink all we want, I guess it comes down to Martin himself. As others have said he's not made any indication (that I've seen) of wanting to play again so this could all be a mute point. 

 

My apologies if it seems like I firing a shot against your bow. I'm getting very grumpy as I approach 30

 

No problems,  I enjoy a good discussion and don't take differences of opinion personally.

 

If think you are grumpy now, wait until you cross over the hump and start speeding toward 40 (that's the road I am on) ;) 

[HarassedOffTheSite]

Where might Jonathan Martin end up?

If his former teammate at Stanford, Indianapolis Colts quarterback Andrew Luck, has a say, he would want him in Indy. Pro Football Talk asked Luck if he would want the Colts to acquire the Miami Dolphins offensive tackle. The quarterback’s response, simply, was “Yes.”

Luck was asked what he would say if the Colts’ front office asked his opinion about Martin.

“I’d say I love Jon, we had a great time at Stanford together, still stay in touch with him regularly and I think he’s a great man,” Luck said.

Luck added that he last spoke to Martin “probably a couple of days ago.”

Another reason why Martin may be a fit in Indianapolis? The Colts’ offensive coordinator, Pep Hamilton, held the same title at Stanford while Martin played there.

It may be tampering for NFL coaches and front office people to talk about players under contract with other teams, but players can talk about them all they want. Martin is still under contract with the Miami Dolphins, so if the franchise wants to part with him, it can either make a trade to another team, or cut him

 

. - Lorenzo Reyes USA Todayhttp://q.usatoday.com/2014/02/27/jonathan-martin-indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-san-francisco-49ers-seattle-seahawks/

 

Edited February 28, 2014 by Nadine
excessive formatting

[theanarchist]

The Colts coaches don't have to "turn his career around..."

 

Martin would not come to Indy as a starter.    That's why we have Castanzo and Cherilous.

 

He'd come as our 3rd tackle and he'd be an upgrade over any other player we have or could get to be our 3rd tackle.

 

He's a back-up.    He's not a starter.    And he's good enough to be a quality back-up for the Colts, or any other team.....

I think the other thing people need to realize is that the environment is sometimes sufficient to make a big enough change for a player that all of a sudden they are in a better place to grow as a human being, concentrate on their priorities and all of a sudden they are a better football player. There are plenty of examples over the years where a player may have been underachieving with a team, they get released or traded and they turn their career around. It happens. And it isn't entirely a coaching thing.

[Modern]

Martin will have few friends in any locker room. If he comes to the Colts he might have his old Stanford teammates , but I can't see many others wanting to warm up to him. He will be viewed as a snitch and as weak.

None of the other linemen are gonna wanna hang out with him or have any kinda relationship because of what went on in Miami. They aren't gonna bully him, but they also ain't gonna be in any hurry to be friends with him.

Most players dont come from the same kinda background as Martin, most grew up in poorer neighborhoods. In those kinda neighborhoods the worse thing you can ever be is a snitch, and they will view him as a snitch.

The opposing players will definetly be in his ear all game also. He might not storm off the field crying and blowing snot bubbles, but they will get to him. If the guy next to him hears it all but doesnt like Martin and agrees with a lot of what's being said then he probably isnt gonna rush to his defense.

Martin ain't gonna get mad and use it to fuel his play, that aint how he is made, it will get to him.

If I lined up across from him the things Incognito said would pale in comparison to what would be coming out of my mouth.

Attempted suicide, snitching, being weak, talk of his mother and sister, insinuating he had romantic feelings for Incognito, the possibilities are endless. When I see I struck a nerve then I am all in on that topic.

I wouldn't need him to run off the field in tears, I just need to throw off his timing or get him out of position. Doesnt matter if he is angry or depressed, any emotion will do. He ain't got it in him to take a swing at me and even on the off chance his teammate next to him gets tired of hearing it and comes to his defense, then thats fine too, because now I got 2 people mad and off their game.

My next move would be to go ahead and hit him before the ball is snapped and he is ready. Sure it will be a penalty, but once I get him emotional enough it will all be worth it.

He is the weak link so I would keep going at him nonstop. Sooner or later it will effect the whole line even if they dont care for him.

Once they view you as emotional or weak in any way they will exploit it.

Once he causes the line to be weaker his fellow linemen will like him even less. He might not be bullied here, but he won't be well liked either.

[SteelCityColt]

Martin will have few friends in any locker room. If he comes to the Colts he might have his old Stanford teammates , but I can't see many others wanting to warm up to him. He will be viewed as a snitch and as weak.

None of the other linemen are gonna wanna hang out with him or have any kinda relationship because of what went on in Miami. They aren't gonna bully him, but they also ain't gonna be in any hurry to be friends with him.

Most players dont come from the same kinda background as Martin, most grew up in poorer neighborhoods. In those kinda neighborhoods the worse thing you can ever be is a snitch, and they will view him as a snitch.

The opposing players will definetly be in his ear all game also. He might not storm off the field crying and blowing snot bubbles, but they will get to him. If the guy next to him hears it all but doesnt like Martin and agrees with a lot of what's being said then he probably isnt gonna rush to his defense.

Martin ain't gonna get mad and use it to fuel his play, that aint how he is made, it will get to him.

If I lined up across from him the things Incognito said would pale in comparison to what would be coming out of my mouth.

Attempted suicide, snitching, being weak, talk of his mother and sister, insinuating he had romantic feelings for Incognito, the possibilities are endless. When I see I struck a nerve then I am all in on that topic.

I wouldn't need him to run off the field in tears, I just need to throw off his timing or get him out of position. Doesnt matter if he is angry or depressed, any emotion will do. He ain't got it in him to take a swing at me and even on the off chance his teammate next to him gets tired of hearing it and comes to his defense, then thats fine too, because now I got 2 people mad and off their game.

My next move would be to go ahead and hit him before the ball is snapped and he is ready. Sure it will be a penalty, but once I get him emotional enough it will all be worth it.

He is the weak link so I would keep going at him nonstop. Sooner or later it will effect the whole line even if they dont care for him.

Once they view you as emotional or weak in any way they will exploit it.

Once he causes the line to be weaker his fellow linemen will like him even less. He might not be bullied here, but he won't be well liked either.

 

On what are you basing your intimate knowledge of the Colt's locker room? Unless... wait... tying back to previous comments about all players being given a pass apart from Satele...sticking up for Miami.... Samson is that you?

 

Can I ask too, have you read the Wells report?

[HarassedOffTheSite]

On what are you basing your intimate knowledge of the Colt's locker room?

 

Hahaha

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Martin will have few friends in any locker room. If he comes to the Colts he might have his old Stanford teammates , but I can't see many others wanting to warm up to him. He will be viewed as a snitch and as weak.

None of the other linemen are gonna wanna hang out with him or have any kinda relationship because of what went on in Miami. They aren't gonna bully him, but they also ain't gonna be in any hurry to be friends with him.

Most players dont come from the same kinda background as Martin, most grew up in poorer neighborhoods. In those kinda neighborhoods the worse thing you can ever be is a snitch, and they will view him as a snitch.

The opposing players will definetly be in his ear all game also. He might not storm off the field crying and blowing snot bubbles, but they will get to him. If the guy next to him hears it all but doesnt like Martin and agrees with a lot of what's being said then he probably isnt gonna rush to his defense.

Martin ain't gonna get mad and use it to fuel his play, that aint how he is made, it will get to him.

If I lined up across from him the things Incognito said would pale in comparison to what would be coming out of my mouth.

Attempted suicide, snitching, being weak, talk of his mother and sister, insinuating he had romantic feelings for Incognito, the possibilities are endless. When I see I struck a nerve then I am all in on that topic.

I wouldn't need him to run off the field in tears, I just need to throw off his timing or get him out of position. Doesnt matter if he is angry or depressed, any emotion will do. He ain't got it in him to take a swing at me and even on the off chance his teammate next to him gets tired of hearing it and comes to his defense, then thats fine too, because now I got 2 people mad and off their game.

My next move would be to go ahead and hit him before the ball is snapped and he is ready. Sure it will be a penalty, but once I get him emotional enough it will all be worth it.

He is the weak link so I would keep going at him nonstop. Sooner or later it will effect the whole line even if they dont care for him.

Once they view you as emotional or weak in any way they will exploit it.

Once he causes the line to be weaker his fellow linemen will like him even less. He might not be bullied here, but he won't be well liked either.

 

I felt similar at 1 point but because my opinion has evolved I can now see what a jerk I sounded like this blows me out of the water so cruel & misinformed

 

Maybe you need to beat your car with a baseball bat & calm down lil fella ..

 

 I live in a mans world  Bricklayers & wanna be tough guys are a dime a dozen theres always some wimp running there mouth so what he'll have to learn to deal with it &

 

Some people just love beating a dead horse . I don't believe even Incognito  would have written a post as foolish or ignorant as the above .

 

I can agree Martin has issues I just believe he can overcome them & I can look back at scouting reports & see a O-lineman that can help my team so if the Colts can improve the team I'm all for it . He was a starter everywhere he's been .

[Modern]

On what are you basing your intimate knowledge of the Colt's locker room? Unless... wait... tying back to previous comments about all players being given a pass apart from Satele...sticking up for Miami.... Samson is that you?

Can I ask too, have you read the Wells report?

Human nature.

I haven't seen any players on any team rushing to Martins defense besides his old Stanford teammates.

Where are the Colts linemen who say they want him on the team ?

The "class act' label that Colts fans like to place on the team is fine and dandy, but some of these guys were on other less classy teams in the past, they dont become angels when they put on the horseshoe.

Martin contributed to what might be the end of Incognitos career, maybe he was in the right doing so but do you honestly think anybody else will ever trust him fully after that ?

You wanna go kick back and drink a few beers with a guy who might turn on you and cost you your future, millions of dollars ? I would say hi to him and that would be it if I was in that locker room. There will be plenty of whispers when he walks by, its how humans are. The Colts werent granted immunity to being human by some supreme being, they are a behaved team for the most part, but they ain't saints. The class act idea is great but dont put too much into it because it only goes so far.

[Modern]

I felt similar at 1 point but because my opinion has evolved I can now see what a jerk I sounded like this blows me out of the water so cruel & misinformed

Maybe you need to beat your car with a baseball bat & calm down lil fella ..

I live in a mans world Bricklayers & wanna be tough guys are a dime a dozen theres always some wimp running there mouth so what he'll have to learn to deal with it &

Some people just love beating a dead horse . I don't believe even Incognito would have written a post as foolish or ignorant as the above .

I can agree Martin has issues I just believe he can overcome them & I can look back at scouting reports & see a O-lineman that can help my team so if the Colts can improve the team I'm all for it . He was a starter everywhere he's been .

He was a starter in Miami who got his position changed and by some accounts was about to lose his starting job all together.

Its a cruel world, rainbows and unicorns and butterfly kisses are pretty rare.

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

He was a starter in Miami who got his position changed and by some accounts was about to lose his starting job all together.

Its a cruel world, rainbows and unicorns and butterfly kisses are pretty rare.

 

As a Californian from L.A .   I know exactly what this world is IMO the rainbows & unicorns & pretty butterfly kisses exist only in yours  .

 

I do agree your world is pretty rare .

[ColtsBlueFL]

no he was a rookie last year. He didn't play well either year

 

Yeah, not everybody can be a Trent Richardson....  

[Beauregarde]

The Colts coaches don't have to "turn his career around..."

 

Martin would not come to Indy as a starter.    That's why we have Castanzo and Cherilous.

 

He'd come as our 3rd tackle and he'd be an upgrade over any other player we have or could get to be our 3rd tackle.

 

He's a back-up.    He's not a starter.    And he's good enough to be a quality back-up for the Colts, or any other team.....

He has been a starter for Miami and I believe he would start for many other teams and I think he could very well start for the Colts. He might have to change positions to do that. I think he has a big upside and just being in the right environment will make a world of difference.

[SteelCityColt]

Human nature.

I haven't seen any players on any team rushing to Martins defense besides his old Stanford teammates.

Where are the Colts linemen who say they want him on the team ?

The "class act' label that Colts fans like to place on the team is fine and dandy, but some of these guys were on other less classy teams in the past, they dont become angels when they put on the horseshoe.

Martin contributed to what might be the end of Incognitos career, maybe he was in the right doing so but do you honestly think anybody else will ever trust him fully after that ?

You wanna go kick back and drink a few beers with a guy who might turn on you and cost you your future, millions of dollars ? I would say hi to him and that would be it if I was in that locker room. There will be plenty of whispers when he walks by, its how humans are. The Colts werent granted immunity to being human by some supreme being, they are a behaved team for the most part, but they ain't saints. The class act idea is great but dont put too much into it because it only goes so far.

 

Why would any Colt without a prior link to Martin or the situation have any comment to make at this point anyway unless they were specifically asked (as in the case of the Stanford grads). 

 

Maybe some guys in the locker room might not agree, just like they might not agree with Michael Sam, or Mormons, or people who eat at Pappa John's. We've had and still have the class act label because the FO and coaching staff provide strong enough leadership to the players that on the whole they act like professionals and #Chuckstrong or not there does seem a very big team ethic. 

 

Add to this what exactly has Martin done wrong here? The "Snitch" label is a little harsh, he put up with that excrement for over  year before he snapped and why did it come out? Because it was leaked by Phins staff that he'd walked out on the team! 

 

Seriously this and other comments makes me doubt your understanding of human nature, as I said in a previous response you can play armchair shrink all we want but only to the point of generalisations, you've jumped all the way to specific reactions of people which you can't possibly know. I still think you fail to see there is major difference psychologically between the trash talk of an opponent and being betrayed and abused by people on your team. 

 

Again I ask, did you actually read the report?

[Beauregarde]

No problems,  I enjoy a good discussion and don't take differences of opinion personally.

 

If think you are grumpy now, wait until you cross over the hump and start speeding toward 40 (that's the road I am on) ;)

 

 

No problems,  I enjoy a good discussion and don't take differences of opinion personally.

 

If think you are grumpy now, wait until you cross over the hump and start speeding toward 40 (that's the road I am on) ;)

Pups. Wait until you lumber toward 70.

[jvan1973]

Yeah, not everybody can be a Trent Richardson....

Not sure how that is relevant at all.

[Jason_]

As far as just "kicking the tires goes" he does not bring enough to the table to even risk opening that can of worms.  Who knows how hard it would be to get rid of him when you have your franchise QB in his corner,

 

 

Wait, do you really think Grigson would avoid cutting Martin if he didn't work out just to spare Luck's feelings?  Do you really think Luck is the kind of guy that would stand up to Grigson and say "No, you're not cutting him"?  

[cdgacoltsfan]

The Colts coaches don't have to "turn his career around..."

 

Martin would not come to Indy as a starter.    That's why we have Castanzo and Cherilous.

 

He'd come as our 3rd tackle and he'd be an upgrade over any other player we have or could get to be our 3rd tackle.

 

He's a back-up.    He's not a starter.    And he's good enough to be a quality back-up for the Colts, or any other team.....

Any chance he could be our starting right guard?

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think that if he was playing well this wouldn't even be a story. I think it was a multitude of things and he couldn't handle it anymore and had to find an escape from football and he blamed it on the bullying. These kind of things have been going on for years in the NFL and this is the first player that has came out and made it a big deal. I honestly doubt he even wants to play football again. His struggles in the NFL were a lot more than just bullying.

 

He does want to play.  And the Dolphins wanted him back on their team. Here are some statements from the meeting between Dolphins and Martin's agent:

 

 

"The Miami Dolphins expressed interest in Jonathan Martin returning to the team during their combine meeting with his agents, according to league sources."

"But given all the turmoil, Martin's advisors believe it best if he continue his career elsewhere and he has no intentions of playing there."

"Martin has not opted to sue the team or the league and wants to continue his playing career."

 

He just wants no part of the Dolphins organization.  Because he is still on his rookie contract, his salary is low, and his guaranteed money has been paid.  But he is the Dolphins for two more years, unless they cut him. The Dolphins will have nearly a million in dead money if they cut him this year, along with almost a half million dead money the following year.

 

Dolphins will have to cut him at some point. Martin is slated to get 1.3 million this year, but Martin will be a no show in Dolphins camp.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Not sure how that is relevant at all.

 

Posters here give players a pass for poor performance saying things like- it's only his second year.  Give him time. etc...  Yet  posters also blow up Martin for underachieving in only his first 1.5 years (under duress, no less) and write him off..  It's one or the other, yes? 

[jvan1973]

Posters here give players a pass for poor performance saying things like- it's only his second year. Give him time. etc... Yet posters also blow up Martin for underachieving in only his first 1.5 years (under duress, no less) and write him off.. It's one or the other, yes?

He doesn't as of yet wear a colts uniform. People give their guys the benefit of doubt. Martin hasn't shown me (not that he needs to) he is worth trading for. If the colts feel he can help and can pick him up cheap if the dolphins cut him, i would be cool with that..

[ÅÐØNϧ 1]

Pups. Wait until you lumber toward 70.

 

Senility  & Depends  something to look forward to.

[ColtsBlueFL]

Don't think of it as defending Incognito.  Rather, think of it as going by the truth.  Martin needs to own up to his own mistakes too.  Instead of showing some integrity and character, he let the media trash Incognito while he sat quietly and let it happen.  I don't care for either Martin or Incognito, but Martin made it worse for himself when he actively ignored the truth.  Read the text message exchanges they had and you'll see Martin is not innocent at all.  He contributed...in fact, he went out of his way to contribute to the dynamic he had with Incognito. 

 

"We reject the assertion by Incognito that Martin has fabricated claims of harassment after the fact. Contemporaneous text messages that Martin sent to his parents and others months before he left the Dolphins — which have never before been made public - corroborate Martin’s account that he was distressed by insults from his teammates and experiencing emotional turmoil"

 

"Martin claims that at times he participated in off - color joking with Incognito and others in an attempt to fit in, with the hope of reducing the treatment he found offensive. According to our consulting

expert, a psychologist who focuses on matters of workplace conduct, such a reaction is consistent with the behavior of a victim of abusive treatment."

 

I agree.  He shouldn't have had to be in the situation.  What happened there was not acceptable and should not occur at all.  But Martin ignored the truth and made it worse for himself.  He handled it in what I think is one of the worst ways possible: ignore the truth, pretend you don't hear it when people are trashing someone else, and let it all happen obliviously when you know people don't have the whole story.

 

Well then, just what is the truth?  And what is "the proper way" to address this?   Martin handled it in the only way he knew.  Leave.  He felt it was his fault.

 

But at the time, he (Martin) blamed himself for leaving, feeling that he was simply too sensitive and that he was at fault for not stopping the abusive behavior. Martin told us,too, that he has received counseling since that time and has come to the view that he should not feel guilty or blame himself if ridiculed.

 

At no time does he have any reason nor desire to defend someone he feels was tearing him down  And Incognito most certainly was. Martin was busy tearing himself down

 

"We view Incognito’s entries in the fine book about “breaking Jmart” and his attempt to destroy the fine book — which was unsuccessful — as evidence demonstrating his awareness that he had engaged in improper conduct toward Martin".

 

I'd be more than happy to hear how you feel it should have been handled and where the breakdown to keep that from happening was.  From my perspective, when team leaders and coaches are heavily involved in your demise, there are extremely few alternatives.

[DougDew]

I think lost in some of this is just basic common sense. If you're being verbally assaulted by an opponent, it lasts for 3.5 hours. Even a person of Martin's make up can compartmentalize that, especially for a few million dollars per year. He's been playing football since age 10. The game isn't new.

I'm not defending Martin's personality, but the assertion that what happened to him in the locker room by his 'mates is somehow the same situation as what he would face during a game is absurd.

He may stink as a player, but comments made by opponents during a game isn't going to cause that, and probably didn't his first two years in the NFL (surely he took some on field abuse already). It is either due to the lockerroom stuff, or a rookie needing to learn, or just a lack of talent, IMO.

[ProblChld32]

Does he have any experience playing guard?

[cdgacoltsfan]

Does he have any experience playing guard?

Thats what I am wondering. I think we should go after Saffold in FA and pick up Martin if he is cut by the Phins. That would give us depth and felxabilty on the OL if the injury bug strikes.

[ColtsBlueFL]

. - Lorenzo Reyes USA Todayhttp://q.usatoday.com/2014/02/27/jonathan-martin-indianapolis-colts-andrew-luck-san-francisco-49ers-seattle-seahawks/

 

Yup! Colts and Seahawks good fit.  And this article about Martin and Harbaugh cements the SF 49'ers possibility-

 

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/02/15/jim-harbaugh-jonathan-martin-can-succeed-in-the-nfl/

[NewColtsFan]

Any chance he could be our starting right guard?

 

 

Honestly, I'm not sure.    If I had to guess, I'd say no.    He's built like a tackle, not a guard.

 

And I'm not sure if he's got the feet for guard.    And he didn't play guard at all for Stanford.   So it would be completely new to him to have him do it now that he's in the NFL.

 

Not sure it would be good for Martin, or the Colts.....

[HarassedOffTheSite]

I'm not defending Martin's personality, but the assertion that what happened to him in the locker room by his 'mates is somehow the same situation as what he would face during a game is absurd.

 

And still it is being put forward as a legitimate way of looking at this situation and therefore a reason to suspect his ability to play the game. Some of the dumbest stuff I've ever seen on the forums.

 

[esmort]

Wait, do you really think Grigson would avoid cutting Martin if he didn't work out just to spare Luck's feelings?

Maybe not for the sole purpose of sparing Luck's feelings, but I think there are things other than the objective view of Martin's talent that could influence his decision; a few I which I listed in the previous post.

 

Do you really think Luck is the kind of guy that would stand up to Grigson and say "No, you're not cutting him"?

 

No, I don't think Luck would come out and say something like that, but I can see him being open about hoping Martin stays and perhaps even "lobbying" for it in a low key and no drama/non-confrontational kind of way.

 

IMO if the powers that be felt it was important to Luck that Martin stay even if Luck was not overly vocal/demanding, than I think he would be kept.  You keep "the franchise QB" happy.

 

[esmort]

Thats what I am wondering. I think we should go after Saffold in FA and pick up Martin if he is cut by the Phins. That would give us depth and felxabilty on the OL if the injury bug strikes.

 

I think Saffold would be expensive ... especially compared to Martin. But, if he was relatively cheap (which he won't be), I would love to have Saffold as a back up T/G

[esmort]

Martin will have few friends in any locker room. If he comes to the Colts he might have his old Stanford teammates , but I can't see many others wanting to warm up to him. He will be viewed as a snitch and as weak.

None of the other linemen are gonna wanna hang out with him or have any kinda relationship because of what went on in Miami. They aren't gonna bully him, but they also ain't gonna be in any hurry to be friends with him.

Most players dont come from the same kinda background as Martin, most grew up in poorer neighborhoods. In those kinda neighborhoods the worse thing you can ever be is a snitch, and they will view him as a snitch.

The opposing players will definetly be in his ear all game also. He might not storm off the field crying and blowing snot bubbles, but they will get to him. If the guy next to him hears it all but doesnt like Martin and agrees with a lot of what's being said then he probably isnt gonna rush to his defense.

Martin ain't gonna get mad and use it to fuel his play, that aint how he is made, it will get to him.

If I lined up across from him the things Incognito said would pale in comparison to what would be coming out of my mouth.

Attempted suicide, snitching, being weak, talk of his mother and sister, insinuating he had romantic feelings for Incognito, the possibilities are endless. When I see I struck a nerve then I am all in on that topic.

I wouldn't need him to run off the field in tears, I just need to throw off his timing or get him out of position. Doesnt matter if he is angry or depressed, any emotion will do. He ain't got it in him to take a swing at me and even on the off chance his teammate next to him gets tired of hearing it and comes to his defense, then thats fine too, because now I got 2 people mad and off their game.

My next move would be to go ahead and hit him before the ball is snapped and he is ready. Sure it will be a penalty, but once I get him emotional enough it will all be worth it.

He is the weak link so I would keep going at him nonstop. Sooner or later it will effect the whole line even if they dont care for him.

Once they view you as emotional or weak in any way they will exploit it.

Once he causes the line to be weaker his fellow linemen will like him even less. He might not be bullied here, but he won't be well liked either.

 

I don't normally agree with many of your posts, but I agree with you on this for the most part.  I don't know that I agree it would negatively effect the rest of the line as you suggest.  But, I do agree that this would be the strategy of many defenders and I believe his mental make up would make him easily susceptible to it. 

 

I know people like to feel they are on the moral/PC high ground in issues like this, but it often causes them to gloss over too many things. Martin's issues run far deeper than just what happened at the Dolphins, he has a mental illness that he has struggled with his entire life. Except now he has had a complete break down and like many injuries both physical and mental you don't always heal to your pre-injury level; and in Martin's case that pre-injury level was not that healthy to begin with. 

 

To believe that everyone on the Colts locker room will welcome him with open arms and that defenders won't be able to use this weakness against him or that he is mentally strong enough to not let it get to him is naive.  Players get in other players heads all the time without the benefit of that other player having severe mental/self worth issues.  Yet somehow everyone is convincing themselves that these defenders won't be able to get in the head of someone who is mentally weak already, with the report as a blueprint on how to best do it.

 

Why people so eager to take on the "Martin Project" is beyond me.  Even if it doesn't turn out to be a complete disaster I just don't see that much upside.

[ProblChld32]

Thats what I am wondering. I think we should go after Saffold in FA and pick up Martin if he is cut by the Phins. That would give us depth and felxabilty on the OL if the injury bug strikes.

 

Agreed, get Satelle out of the lineup and we may just be able to keep luck upright this up coming season. 

[DougDew]

I don't normally agree with many of your posts, but I agree with you on this for the most part.  I don't know that I agree it would negatively effect the rest of the line as you suggest.  But, I do agree that this would be the strategy of many defenders and I believe his mental make up would make him easily susceptible to it. 

 

I know people like to feel they are on the moral/PC high ground in issues like this, but it often causes them to gloss over too many things. Martin's issues run far deeper than just what happened at the Dolphins, he has a mental illness that he has struggled with his entire life. Except now he has had a complete break down and like many injuries both physical and mental you don't always heal to your pre-injury level; and in Martin's case that pre-injury level was not that healthy to begin with. 

 

To believe that everyone on the Colts locker room will welcome him with open arms and that defenders won't be able to use this weakness against him or that he is mentally strong enough to not let it get to him is naive.  Players get in other players heads all the time without the benefit of that other player having severe mental/self worth issues.  Yet somehow everyone is convincing themselves that these defenders won't be able to get in the head of someone who is mentally weak already, with the report as a blueprint on how to best do it.

 

Why people so eager to take on the "Martin Project" is beyond me.  Even if it doesn't turn out to be a complete disaster I just don't see that much upside.

Can you share some facts about Martin's condition?  Has he ever been clinically diagnosed with a legitimate mental condition and has sought treatment in any way?  I'm asking for real....I don't know his mental history.