What would you think of going all out on Cornerback in Free Agency?

[Yoshinator]

What would you guys think of this scenario: 

 

We cut Toler and save 4.2 Million in Cap space while resigning Vontae Davis. Next, we sign Captain Munnerlyn and Alterraun Verner. We can basically use the money saved from cutting Toler to sign one of Munnerlyn and Verner, and the other may be 6 million a year. We can get the top 3 CBs and completely turn around our secondary and rebuild the rest of the defense through the draft. With Henoc Muamba, we have a start at ILB already. We can also keep Butler and Vaughn at CB. This way allows us to take a FS in the draft as well as a DE/DT as well as fix the O-Line. We need a position of strength on defense!

[Gavin]

Muamba will be lucky to make it through TC and onto the PS

[Deathiltis]

What the heck is it with people thinking Muamba will be a starter? That's setting yourself up for disappointment.

[Dustin]

I think it's a terrible idea.

[Yoshinator]

What the heck is it with people thinking Muamba will be a starter? That's setting yourself up for disappointment.

He was the no1 pick in the CFL in 2011. While that doesn't equal a 1st overall pick in the NFL, his ability is probably as good as most of the late 1st/early 2nd rounders in this years draft. I bet you doubted Freeman as well.

[Yoshinator]

I think it's a terrible idea.

Why is that? We have a chance to be great against the pass. Cutting Satele and Toler could give us $10 million towards getting an elite pass defense. Being conservative is why Peyton had to put 30 points a game to win and now Luck has too. Take a couple top guys and make our pass defense elite. Work on the defensive line in the draft.

[Deathiltis]

He was the no1 pick in the CFL in 2011. While that doesn't equal a 1st overall pick in the NFL, his ability is probably as good as most of the late 1st/early 2nd rounders in this years draft. I bet you doubted Freeman as well.

Being picked first in the CFL draft is not even close to the value of second round pick in the NFL draft. Freeman is a different person and if you're not skeptical and use discernment in evaluating a player signed from another league you're simply not using proper judgment.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'm for cutting Toler but only signing 1 CB or draft one to replace him

[chad72]

In a run heavy division, if you cannot stop the run, the less chances you have to even get home field for a playoff game.

 

Next, if you cannot stop the run, even the pass heavy teams will target your weakness and will be happy to keep running the ball like the Patriots did.

 

So, the line of defense ALWAYS starts with the front 7. The Seahawks did not win just because of the secondary, they won because their DL with fresh legs manhandled the Broncos OL, period. Giants of SB 42 and 46 did not have a very good secondary, let alone an elite one but they had great pass rush from the DL. That is what won those games vs the Patriots for them.

 

Invest in the front seven first, that will aid the back 4 or 5 considerably.

[BOTT]

Why is that? We have a chance to be great against the pass. Cutting Satele and Toler could give us $10 million towards getting an elite pass defense. Being conservative is why Peyton had to put 30 points a game to win and now Luck has too. Take a couple top guys and make our pass defense elite. Work on the defensive line in the draft.

Because being great against the pass starts up front

[BOTT]

Paging Brian Casserly

[Yoshinator]

In a run heavy division, if you cannot stop the run, the less chances you have to even get home field for a playoff game.

 

Next, if you cannot stop the run, even the pass heavy teams will target your weakness and will be happy to keep running the ball like the Patriots did.

 

So, the line of defense ALWAYS starts with the front 7. The Seahawks did not win just because of the secondary, they won because their DL with fresh legs manhandled the Broncos OL, period. Giants of SB 42 and 46 did not have a very good secondary, let alone an elite one but they had great pass rush from the DL. That is what won those games vs the Patriots for them.

 

Invest in the front seven first, that will aid the back 4 or 5 considerably.

We don't have to worry MJD anymore, Chris Johnson may be gone as well. I guarantee the AFC South will be full of Rookie QBs like Bridgewater and Bortles next year. We're going to need a solid pass D. While it's true that we need a solid run D, who are we going to cut and replace? RJF won't be cut, Chapman is still learning as well as Hughes. Mathis is great already. Werner is another player that's developing. We can't do much more to the front 7!

[Yoshinator]

Because being great against the pass starts up front

We've put picks into the front 7 with Werner, Chapman, and Hughes. All we can really do is draft another ILB. We can't replace the front 7 already. Best to go all out on the secondary while there are elite young guys in Free Agency.

[Deathiltis]

We've put picks into the front 7 with Werner, Chapman, and Hughes. All we can really do is draft another ILB. We can't replace the front 7 already. Best to go all out on the secondary while there are elite young guys in Free Agency.

2 young 5th rounders and a DE still switching to 3-4 OLB do not equal a strong front 7.

[Yoshinator]

2 young 5th rounders and a DE still switching to 3-4 OLB do not equal a strong front 7.

Who should we go after then, Hardy from the Panthers? He's really the only option. Even if we do draft someone, it won't be a 1st rounder. Not sure we should force players in the defensive line that are less talented. Maybe it's just me, but I like to elite players from free agency, not a few veterans that are temporary fixes. Tired of going after mediocre players. We barely even take players in FA under Bill Polian, and Grigson doesn't go after big names. This is why the Colts have always had a terrible defense, and why Manning and now Luck has to carry the team. Free Agency dictates we bolster the secondary now. The front 7 can be addressed in the draft, especially with the high number of underclassmen and high chance of hitting on one as an UDFA. It's a bad draft year for us, we need to take advantage of the advantages in Free Agency, and that's these elite Cornerbacks.

[21isSuperman]

He was the no1 pick in the CFL in 2011. While that doesn't equal a 1st overall pick in the NFL, his ability is probably as good as most of the late 1st/early 2nd rounders in this years draft. I bet you doubted Freeman as well.

I'm not sure how much CFL you watch, so this isn't meant as a shot against you.  But there is a huge dropoff in talent from the NFL to the CFL.  A first overall CFL pick is not even guaranteed to make an NFL roster whereas he would likely be a star in the CFL.  Several #1 overall CFL picks have tried their shot at the NFL and haven't made an impact

[BOTT]

Who should we go after then, Hardy from the Panthers? He's really the only option. Even if we do draft someone, it won't be a 1st rounder. Not sure we should force players in the defensive line that are less talented. Maybe it's just me, but I like to elite players from free agency, not a few veterans that are temporary fixes. Tired of going after mediocre players. We barely even take players in FA under Bill Polian, and Grigson doesn't go after big names. This is why the Colts have always had a terrible defense, and why Manning and now Luck has to carry the team. Free Agency dictates we bolster the secondary now. The front 7 can be addressed in the draft, especially with the high number of underclassmen and high chance of hitting on one as an UDFA. It's a bad draft year for us, we need to take advantage of the advantages in Free Agency, and that's these elite Cornerbacks.

Linval Joseph, Arthur Jones, Randy Starks, Brian Orakpo , Jason Hatcher, Lamarr Houston, Jason Worilds

[Yoshinator]

I'm not sure how much CFL you watch, so this isn't meant as a shot against you.  But there is a huge dropoff in talent from the NFL to the CFL.  A first overall CFL pick is not even guaranteed to make an NFL roster whereas he would likely be a star in the CFL.  Several #1 overall CFL picks have tried their shot at the NFL and haven't made an impact

I guess I didn't realize the lack of competition in the CFL. His tape looked impressive and I watched a bit of his game footage online. Hopefully he can make an impact.

[Yoshinator]

Linval Joseph, Arthur Jones, Randy Starks, Brian Orakpo , Jason Hatcher, Lamarr Houston, Jason Worilds

Not sure if Joseph will be a FA, might resign with the Giants. We probably wouldn't sign him anyway. All for Arthur Jones if we get rid of RJF. Starks is too old and will cost too much for his age. Orakpo would be awesome. Hatcher, Houston and Worilds are trash now and will demand too much. Last thing we need is more mediocre players. Jones and Orakpo are the only real options out of these players.

[James Harden]

If we can get a cornerback like Richard Sherman than I'm all for it.

[Colts_Fan12]

I'd like to get a high profile S and C then a mid levek G and CB in FA then in the draft help the D line and LBs

[21isSuperman]

I guess I didn't realize the lack of competition in the CFL. His tape looked impressive and I watched a bit of his game footage online. Hopefully he can make an impact.

I'm not saying he can't do well.  I'm just saying we shouldn't expect him to have the impact Freeman has had.  If he does, great.  But he probably has a lot of work to do with his technique, reading the plays, etc.  But I am pretty excited for his potential

[Manning1887]

I want to see Muamba actually set foot on an NFL field and compete with NFL talent before I even start to buy into him making the team.

[Deathiltis]

Free Agency dictates we bolster the secondary now. The front 7 can be addressed in the draft, especially with the high number of underclassmen and high chance of hitting on one as an UDFA.

Hardy wouldn't fit in our 3-4 scheme but I don't disagree with what you've said here.

[Manning1887]

I would actually sign Alterraun Verner over Vontae Davis. Verner is much more consistent and is absolutely tremendous in press coverage. Unfortunately, he will command more money than Davis and the Titans won't let him go.

 

Munnerlyn is only 5'8". My understanding is that we want bigger corners.

 

Vontae Davis is the best option we have. I just hope it is for no more than $7 million per year.

 

I actually like Darius Butler as the nickel corner, and Toler is a great #2 when healthy (which I know is a big IF)

[BOTT]

Not sure if Joseph will be a FA, might resign with the Giants. We probably wouldn't sign him anyway. All for Arthur Jones if we get rid of RJF. Starks is too old and will cost too much for his age. Orakpo would be awesome. Hatcher, Houston and Worilds are trash now and will demand too much. Last thing we need is more mediocre players. Jones and Orakpo are the only real options out of these players.

Starks is younger than Mathis and Redding. It's not like you have to sign him to a 5 year deal. And Joseph will def be a FA. Who he signs I have no idea.

Hatcher, Houston and Worilds are trash? Ok....

[Manning1887]

Hardy wouldn't fit in our 3-4 scheme but I don't disagree with what you've said here.

 

I actually disagree about Hardy not being a fit in the 3-4. First off, no one thought Werner was a fit as an OLB yet we still drafted him. I think the primary criteria is athleticism, not necessarily coverage ability. Hardy seems to have athleticism from what I have seen. Most importantly, he can rush the passer. We need that more than anything else. With Hardy and Mathis rushing the passer, we don't need that elite secondary. We can get by with an average to good secondary.

 

The issue is probably moot though as Hardy will likely be franchised and/or sign a deal with the Panthers.

[Yoshinator]

Starks is younger than Mathis and Redding. It's not like you have to sign him to a 5 year deal. And Joseph will def be a FA. Who he signs I have no idea.

Hatcher, Houston and Worilds are trash? Ok....

Compared to the money they'll demand they are.

[Dustin]

I actually disagree about Hardy not being a fit in the 3-4. First off, no one thought Werner was a fit as an OLB yet we still drafted him. 

 

A. ) Werner hasn't proven he can play OLB effectively.

 

B.) Mathis plays the Rush LB role so you either have Hardy play Sam LB (the role Walden plays now (where he drops into coverage about 30%+ of the time)) or you have him backup Mathis and come in only on pass rushing situations. 

[COLTS449]

I have to agree that signing two corners would be a terrible idea. I want us to cut Toler, but just sign someone like DRC, Shields or even Tillman at the right price. I also really like Butler as our Nickel. signing both Munnerlyn, and Verner would be a bad idea when we have holes to fill in the front 7.

[COLTS449]

Not sure if Joseph will be a FA, might resign with the Giants. We probably wouldn't sign him anyway. All for Arthur Jones if we get rid of RJF. Starks is too old and will cost too much for his age. Orakpo would be awesome. Hatcher, Houston and Worilds are trash now and will demand too much. Last thing we need is more mediocre players. Jones and Orakpo are the only real options out of these players.

Did you not see any of those guys play this year?

[HtownColt]

I'm for a cornerback, but I wouldn't cut Toler at all. You need all the cover corners you can find and they just don't grow on trees. See the Seashawks made the easy transition from Browner's suspension because they had Sherman, Browner, Thurmund, Maxwell, Lane. While we struggled when we lost Toler because we had nobody to fill his shoes.

You have to keep as many quality cover corners as possible because secondary(any skill position) players are bound to go through injuries throughout a season without a skill player missing at least two games.

I look at skill position players like this. I expect at least one of them at each skill position(besides QB) to miss at least two games throughout a season. A concussion here, groin there, ankle sprain etc. stuff like that.

[GoColts00]

In a run heavy division, if you cannot stop the run, the less chances you have to even get home field for a playoff game.

 

Next, if you cannot stop the run, even the pass heavy teams will target your weakness and will be happy to keep running the ball like the Patriots did.

 

So, the line of defense ALWAYS starts with the front 7. The Seahawks did not win just because of the secondary, they won because their DL with fresh legs manhandled the Broncos OL, period. Giants of SB 42 and 46 did not have a very good secondary, let alone an elite one but they had great pass rush from the DL. That is what won those games vs the Patriots for them.

 

Invest in the front seven first, that will aid the back 4 or 5 considerably.

 

Couldn't agree more!!!!   This should be Pinned on the Forum!  The game is really won in the trenches

[BOTT]

I'm for a cornerback, but I wouldn't cut Toler at all. You need all the cover corners you can find and they just don't grow on trees. See the Seashawks made the easy transition from Browner's suspension because they had Sherman, Browner, Thurmund, Maxwell, Lane. While we struggled when we lost Toler because we had nobody to fill his shoes.

You have to keep as many quality cover corners as possible because secondary(any skill position) players are bound to go through injuries throughout a season without a skill player missing at least two games.

I look at skill position players like this. I expect at least one of them at each skill position(besides QB) to miss at least two games throughout a season. A concussion here, groin there, ankle sprain etc. stuff like that.

And the Seahawks had all those guys dirt cheap

[HtownColt]

And the Seahawks had all those guys dirt cheap

That wasn't my point but ok

[Dustin]

I'm for a cornerback, but I wouldn't cut Toler at all. You need all the cover corners you can find and they just don't grow on trees. See the Seashawks made the easy transition from Browner's suspension because they had Sherman, Browner, Thurmund, Maxwell, Lane. While we struggled when we lost Toler because we had nobody to fill his shoes.

You have to keep as many quality cover corners as possible because secondary(any skill position) players are bound to go through injuries throughout a season without a skill player missing at least two games.

I look at skill position players like this. I expect at least one of them at each skill position(besides QB) to miss at least two games throughout a season. A concussion here, groin there, ankle sprain etc. stuff like that.

 

The Seahawks also have the best pass rush in the NFL.

[BOTT]

That wasn't my point but ok

My point was you can't have the kind of depth seattle has...no thru free agency anyway. it costs too much. That would be a lot money between Vontae, Toler, and someone like Verner...especially when the colts have other needs.

[HtownColt]

My point was you can't have the kind of depth seattle has...no thru free agency anyway. it costs too much. That would be a lot money between Vontae, Toler, and someone like Verner...especially when the colts have other needs.

I wasn't saying go after a top tier CB like Verner that's out the question if we keep Toler. You keep Davis, Toler, Butler, Gordy and go after a quality corner like Captain Munnerlyn(I don't have the full free agent list in front of me). That gives you 4 quality cover corners and Gordy that can withstand an injury to their group which one of them are bound to sustain one because they play a skill position. This day and age you need 4 quality cover corners to make it through a full season and not throwing out Cassius Vaughn when we have an injury to a CB

[Insert Colts Pun Here]

I think it's a terrible idea.

 

As do I.

 

Toler is as good, if not better, than both of those guys. 

 

With a dominant front 7, our secondary is more than capable of shutting receivers down. If we get a couple of decent LBers and another decent lineman then our pass defence, which is already sufficient, will be excellent.

[Nobody]

Munnerlyn is a zone CB