Read option left......

[Dustin]

Watch it real time. Watch Griffin doing real read option plays. You'll see the difference. If Luck processed and read the defense in that nano second he really is Superman (Clark Kent that is, not our own Superman). It was a planned keep.

Debate all you want, it's healthy, but some of the agression and stinky comments are misplaced.

 

Just watched it again. It was definitely a read-option play. 

 

Brilliantly read by Luck as well I might add. 

[GoColts8818]

It was a great play call. The fact they don't run Luck by design very often made it that much greater.

[NewColtsFan]

Obviously it is a figure of speech... I was stating why would I need to "win" friends when that is not what I am here for? Trust me, what people think of me over the internet will not hinder me in any way.

 

 

I'm genuinely sorry to learn that.    

 

Either way,  hope you enjoy this little community.    Lots of very nice people here.     

[braveheartcolt]

Just watched it again. It was definitely a read-option play.

Brilliantly read by Luck as well I might add.

Genuine question. Do you honestly think Luck was undecided whether to hand off or not, just prior to the snap?

Your second point. Absolutely.

[dwatkins27]

I'm genuinely sorry to learn that.    

 

Either way,  hope you enjoy this little community.    Lots of very nice people here.     

 

I am sorry that I have come off as a * towards you and coffeedrinker, not really what I am about. I do realize that my post was more of a personal attack at him and not anything to really contribute to the thread. I do agree that there are a lot of nice people in these forums. Thank you for the warm welcome and I am sorry again. 

[Dustin]

Genuine question. Do you honestly think Luck was undecided whether to hand off or not, just prior to the snap?

Your second point. Absolutely.

I think he knew that the DE was going to crash down regardless which is why he pulled the ball back in quickly.

[dwatkins27]

Genuine question. Do you honestly think Luck was undecided whether to hand off or not, just prior to the snap?

Your second point. Absolutely.

 

I do believe that he had his mind made up before the snap. I do believe that the announcers said it was one of the only times that Luck has actually pulled the ball. I also believe that he still had to make that split second hesitation with T-Rich to make sure 100% that the read crashes. I was one of those people who yelled at the tv at T-Rich for getting stuffed . Very nice play call and would like to see more read options in the future.

[NewColtsFan]

I am sorry that I have come off as a * towards you and coffeedrinker, not really what I am about. I do realize that my post was more of a personal attack at him and not anything to really contribute to the thread. I do agree that there are a lot of nice people in these forums. Thank you for the warm welcome and I am sorry again. 

 

Thanks for the classy response.......

 

Very much appreciated.      Apologies for coming off as the "politeness police..."

 

Hope you enjoy the website.........     it can be very, very addictive!      

[braveheartcolt]

Fair enough on above 2 responses. I don't think he could have processed the situation that quickly after the snap, but that's just me. We will probably never know, it doesn't really matter, and it worked a treat either way.

[SteelCityColt]

So just to stir the pot a little, Grantland figured it to be a read option play:

 

Instead, Pagano left his offense out on fourth-and-1 and ran, of all things, the read-option, with Luck correctly reading a Chiefs linebacker crashing down to attack Richardson before holding the ball himself and sprinting around the vacated end for 21 yards. It was, according to the records of ESPN Stats & Information, the first and only time the Colts have run the read-option all season.

[braveheartcolt]

So just to stir the pot a little, Grantland figured it to be a read option play:

 

Instead, Pagano left his offense out on fourth-and-1 and ran, of all things, the read-option, with Luck correctly reading a Chiefs linebacker crashing down to attack Richardson before holding the ball himself and sprinting around the vacated end for 21 yards. It was, according to the records of ESPN Stats & Information, the first and only time the Colts have run the read-option all season.

So, If Luck had no intention of handing off, irrespective of what the LB was doing, it would be a play action fake, and not a read option. Is that correct?

[BleedBlu8792]

So, If Luck had no intention of handing off, irrespective of what the LB was doing, it would be a play action fake, and not a read option. Is that correct?

No, again, watching the play he ran at San Fran compared to against the one he ran against KC, that was a bootleg where he isn't reading anything, just faking the hand off and going, hoping all of the defenders bite. Against KC, he was completely reading what Hali was doing, especially since Costanzo let him him go to begin with. Luck was reading Hali that ENTIRE play. Had Hali not went crashing down the line, Luck would have been forced to handoff to Trent or pass to a receiver. Just because he didn't handoff doesn't negate it from being a read-option play, passing is also a part of it as well and I think that's also a part of the read-option that people are forgetting as well.

[Le Neon]

If nothing else it shows how aggressively the defense attacks our inside runs no matter who is carrying.

Protecting Luck was important in the regular season. Now we need to take advantage of his athleticism to open up the running game. We should run a few more of these.

[SteelCityColt]

So, If Luck had no intention of handing off, irrespective of what the LB was doing, it would be a play action fake, and not a read option. Is that correct?

 

That would be my understanding but Simmons is suggesting here that he did read the defender first making it a read option. Either way it was rare to see a play that involved Luck intentionally keeping the ball and running (even if it was an optional play). 

 

As you say either way one of the most enjoyable plays of the season IMO. 

[AntonMcG]

Just watched it again. It was definitely a read-option play. 

 

Brilliantly read by Luck as well I might add. 

 

Disagree completely, and I do not know how you can say that with such assurity.

 

It was a stacked box against a poor run-blocking O-Line, Richardson's only carry was a fumble, it was a perfectly designed QB Keep.

 

I cannot say for sure, nor can anyone who thinks it was an option play. However, logic would dictate that this was a QB keep, it involves less risk that the Option as it takes away the need for a split second read.

 

Trying to justify this by saying Luck was watching the OLB is arbitrary, even if the OLB diagnoses the play he is still the guy Luck needs to beat and so of course he will be eyeing him.

 

Great play, and to me it was a QB Keep with a fake handoff.

[Le Neon]

It just feels like it would be poor play design not to give Luck an option. Otherwise he's just sitting waiting for linemen and linebackers to crush him if they don't bite on the fake.

We won't know unless/until someone asks Pep about it, it just seems more logical to be read option.

[Dustin]

Disagree completely, and I do not know how you can say that with such assurity.

It was a stacked box against a poor run-blocking O-Line, Richardson's only carry was a fumble, it was a perfectly designed QB Keep.

I cannot say for sure, nor can anyone who thinks it was an option play. However, logic would dictate that this was a QB keep, it involves less risk that the Option as it takes away the need for a split second read.

Trying to justify this by saying Luck was watching the OLB is arbitrary, even if the OLB diagnoses the play he is still the guy Luck needs to beat and so of course he will be eyeing him.

Great play, and to me it was a QB Keep with a fake handoff.

I agree with what Le Neon says. It would be a poor play design if Luck didn't have the option.

Luck gets blown up if the OLB stays home. Not giving him an option would be very irresponsible of Pep.

[AntonMcG]

I agree with what Le Neon says. It would be a poor play design if Luck didn't have the option.

Luck gets blown up if the OLB stays home. Not giving him an option would be very irresponsible of Pep.

 

That is not true.

 

You are completly negating the concept of situational playcalling and reading defenses pre-snap. Hamilton/Luck could have known that Hali would bite, or been very very convinced of it.

 

I sincerely doubt anyone expected Luck to keep that ball, including Hali.

 

The more I look at it, and the more I consider the situation, the more I am convinced it was a QB Keep.

 

Look just before the fake handoff, Hali is still there. There was no way Luck was ever handing that ball off, I think most agree on that. I just believe that he was never handing it off by design.

[AntonMcG]

Plus... a Draw on 4th and Inches???

 

That just seems illogical.

[YOUR GM]

Genuine question. Do you honestly think Luck was undecided whether to hand off or not, just prior to the snap?

Your second point. Absolutely.

Just because Luck was the first option doesn't negate the fact that it was still an option run. I think the call was for Luck to keep it, but if the backside DE stayed home, he would've gave it to Trent. Just my hunch

[Dustin]

That is not true.

 

You are completly negating the concept of situational playcalling and reading defenses pre-snap. Hamilton/Luck could have known that Hali would bite, or been very very convinced of it.

 

I sincerely doubt anyone expected Luck to keep that ball, including Hali.

 

The more I look at it, and the more I consider the situation, the more I am convinced it was a QB Keep.

 

Look just before the fake handoff, Hali is still there. There was no way Luck was ever handing that ball off, I think most agree on that. I just believe that he was never handing it off by design.

 

I just find it hard to believe that a coaching staff that preaches protecting the franchise QB would call a designed run towards an unblocked OLB on the hope that he bites, no matter what they read pre-snap or what they hoped was going to happen. 

[lollygagger8]

I don't care what you call it......do it again!! !

[AntonMcG]

I just find it hard to believe that a coaching staff that preaches protecting the franchise QB would call a designed run towards an unblocked OLB on the hope that he bites, no matter what they read pre-snap or what they hoped was going to happen. 

 

The whole "protecting the 240lb, 6'4 franchise QB' stuff goes out the window when you are behind in the playoffs and going for it on 4th and inches.

 

To me he was always keeping that ball by design, it has all the elements of the read option, minus the option, and I call that a QB Keep.

 

I just think if they were going to let the HB run for it, you run a Dive. Even if Hali stays were he is, Richardson still had to build up the momentum to break through the D-line, because god knows our interior O-Line cannot be relied upon to get the required push. And Draws are not exactly a dream play for a HB who needs to build running momentum.

[Le Neon]

I just find it hard to believe that a coaching staff that preaches protecting the franchise QB would call a designed run towards an unblocked OLB on the hope that he bites, no matter what they read pre-snap or what they hoped was going to happen.

It's the addition of the delay that gets me. The extra second with the ball in trichs gut gives the defender the opportunity to get really lay wood on Luck if they read qb run. In this case giving it to Richardson allows Luck to protect himself in that scenario and could open a lane to run through.

It would be one thing if it were a simple, quick, bootleg. To expose Luck in the pocket with a delay, with an unblocked end and no option just seems unlikely.

[Le Neon]

The whole "protecting the 240lb, 6'4 franchise QB' stuff goes out the window when you are behind in the playoffs and going for it on 4th and inches.

To me he was always keeping that ball by design, it has all the elements of the read option, minus the option, and I call that a QB Keep.

I just think if they were going to let the HB run for it, you run a Dive. Even if Hali stays were he is, Richardson still had to build up the momentum to break through the D-line, because god knows our interior O-Line cannot be relied upon to get the required push. And Draws are not exactly a dream play for a HB who needs to build running momentum.

But Luck also has no momentum in this play. If the end goes for Luck then a lane should open for the RB. It becomes a gimmick play that only works if you fool the defense without the option.

Doesn't mean that isn't what happened. It just seems like the read option would be a smarter play then a designed qb keeper.

[AntonMcG]

But Luck also has no momentum in this play. If the end goes for Luck then a lane should open for the RB. It becomes a gimmick play that only works if you fool the defense without the option.

Doesn't mean that isn't what happened. It just seems like the read option would be a smarter play then a designed qb keeper.

 

Yes, but you have to account for the indescision that comes with the Read Option, especially for a QB who never runs it, in a playoff game, on 4th and inches.

 

The read will always cause a stutter step, whilst a keeper means the QB runs with purpose with his first stride.

 

I can't say for sure, but to me, the situation demanded he kept it... and I think that was very much by design, and a great understanding of the opposing defense.

[Iancolts]

I was yelling The tv when he luck took off after the first down mark was gained I was like SLIDE SLIDE!!!

[Superman]

So, If Luck had no intention of handing off, irrespective of what the LB was doing, it would be a play action fake, and not a read option. Is that correct?

 

Technically, when the QB keeps it on read option, it is also play action. The two are not mutually exclusive. But you're right, if the play didn't include an option for Luck to hand the ball off, then it's not read option, it's a designed keeper with a play action fake.

 

End of the day, it's still a play that either requires or allows Luck to keep the ball and run for the first down, by design. So the earlier comments from Pagano and Pep about not calling designed running plays for Luck -- read option or not -- go out the window. 

[Superman]

Yes, but you have to account for the indescision that comes with the Read Option, especially for a QB who never runs it, in a playoff game, on 4th and inches.

 

The read will always cause a stutter step, whilst a keeper means the QB runs with purpose with his first stride.

 

I can't say for sure, but to me, the situation demanded he kept it... and I think that was very much by design, and a great understanding of the opposing defense.

 

I think we're being overly dogmatic here. The read doesn't have to cause a stutter step. The Colts had been running out of shotgun all game (and have been doing it a whole lot for the last month). We saw how the Chiefs were defending it in this game, and how they defended it in the last matchup. I think it's safe to say that the play call assumed that Hali would crash down, and then Luck would have the backside wide open. But I do think there still may have been a read element to the play. By the time Luck pulls the ball back, though, there's no indecision, no reason to stutter step. He saw Hali out of position, knew that he had a lane, and took off. The only stutter step is the change of direction.

 

There's really no need to categorically deny that this play could have been either a keeper or a read play. But it had all the elements of a read play, including the unblocked defender. And it resulted in Luck running down the field. I don't see why anyone would stipulate that there's a fundamental difference between this play and a real life read option, especially demanding that we recognize the difference because 'the read option is a gimmick.'

[JoKeR]

It was a read option play, what's the big deal?

[Superman]

It was a read option play, what's the big deal?

 

We're supposed to hate read option because it's a gimmick that won't work in the NFL. Luck doesn't need read option because he's a real NFL QB. I think that's the big deal.

[JoKeR]

We're supposed to hate read option because it's a gimmick that won't work in the NFL. Luck doesn't need read option because he's a real NFL QB. I think that's the big deal.

Do people realize there's a difference between running a read option offense and running a read option play???!

[Superman]

Do people realize there's a difference between running a read option offense and running a read option play???!

 

Many do not.

[Coffeedrinker]

I didn't mean to stir up such a controversy with my comment that is was not a read option.  Like I said, it was a brilliant play call, it understood the tendencies of the D and defensive players and took advantage of that situation. 

 

For those that say if the Hali had not crashed down Luck would have handed off to TRich... what sense does that make?  There was no hole in the line whether Hali crashed down or not.  The line did not block it as if they were trying to drive the defenders back (which is what needs to happen to pick up a yard, they were blocking it to bunch everyone in the box at the LOS, which is what you do on a QB keeper  That left the safety and the CB covering Rogers as the only players left to tackle him.  Lastly if it was a read option Rogers would have ran a route (you have to have the option to throw if that DE doesn't crash down, right?) but he didn't, he engaged the CB immediately.  Why, you ask?  Because Luck was running to that side and he needed to block for him.

 

The only option was Luck running, the only read portion of it was whether he would run towards the sideline first or more straight up the field. Hali crashing down meant a big gain, if he didn't crash down Luck would have had to run parallel to the LOS before turning up field and it would have been a 5 yard gain.

 

Unlike what some are suggesting, read option is not a bad word, it just indicates that there was an option on the play and there wasn't.  It was a QB keeper after a fake hand-off.

[Superman]

I didn't mean to stir up such a controversy with my comment that is was not a read option.  Like I said, it was a brilliant play call, it understood the tendencies of the D and defensive players and took advantage of that situation. 

 

For those that say if the Hali had not crashed down Luck would have handed off to TRich... what sense does that make?  There was no hole in the line whether Hali crashed down or not.  The line did not block it as if they were trying to drive the defenders back (which is what needs to happen to pick up a yard, they were blocking it to bunch everyone in the box at the LOS, which is what you do on a QB keeper  That left the safety and the CB covering Rogers as the only players left to tackle him.  Lastly if it was a read option Rogers would have ran a route (you have to have the option to throw if that DE doesn't crash down, right?) but he didn't, he engaged the CB immediately.  Why, you ask?  Because Luck was running to that side and he needed to block for him.

 

The only option was Luck running, the only read portion of it was whether he would run towards the sideline first or more straight up the field. Hali crashing down meant a big gain, if he didn't crash down Luck would have had to run parallel to the LOS before turning up field and it would have been a 5 yard gain.

 

Unlike what some are suggesting, read option is not a bad word, it just indicates that there was an option on the play and there wasn't.  It was a QB keeper after a fake hand-off.

 

Good thoughts about the front side of the play. I don't necessarily agree that Rogers would have been running a route; many times read option plays don't have a backside passing option. But your point is well taken.

 

However, to the bolded, you were the first throw around the "gimmick offense" claim in this thread, as if the Colts are above using read option for some reason. And that's been the overwhelming sentiment about read option for the better part of two seasons now.

[Le Neon]

We're supposed to hate read option because it's a gimmick that won't work in the NFL. Luck doesn't need read option because he's a real NFL QB. I think that's the big deal.

Just to clarify my statements, I don't consider the read option to be a gimmick. I was referring to a called keeper as being a bit gimmicky-trick play because it relies so heavily on how the defense plays it.

Without the option either they're fooled by the play action and it works or the defense blows it up deep in the backfield. Hard to make a guy miss while faking a draw, though I wouldn't put it past Luck.

In the end it worked, so it doesn't really matter. Seems like the read option might be a nice play to have given Luck s athleticism.

[Superman]

Just to clarify my statements, I don't consider the read option to be a gimmick. I was referring to a called keeper as being a bit gimmicky-trick play because it relies so heavily on how the defense plays it.

Without the option either they're fooled by the play action and it works or the defense blows it up deep in the backfield. Hard to make a guy miss while faking a draw, though I wouldn't put it past Luck.

In the end it worked, so it doesn't really matter. Seems like the read option might be a nice play to have given Luck s athleticism.

 

Wasn't trying to pick on you. I just think a lot of people recoil at the very thought, and it's too bad, because like you said, there are useful applications for it.

 

I personally think it can be used as a different form of play action. Teams have begun building pass options into the read option, which can be tricky to execute, but it's also difficult to defend. And as the game goes on, it can yield big results for your offense. I don't necessarily think it relies on sleight of hand, it's just a way to take advantage of another weapon, if you consider your QB to be a weapon with the ball in his hands.

[braveheartcolt]

I disagree with some of the recent comments. I have no beef if we run the read option a few times, or whether it is a gimmick or not. My only (uneducated) point is that Luck did not have enough time to realistically 'read' the linebacker, so in my opinion, it was designed as a keeper, and a keeper only. A few agree, most do not. A healthy debate, but it is foolish to invent reasons why the minority of us felt is was never a read option play at all.

 

And I think we all agree, in the end, it doesn't really matter. It helped us get a vital 3 points, and was a great play.

[Coffeedrinker]

Good thoughts about the front side of the play. I don't necessarily agree that Rogers would have been running a route; many times read option plays don't have a backside passing option. But your point is well taken.

 

However, to the bolded, you were the first throw around the "gimmick offense" claim in this thread, as if the Colts are above using read option for some reason. And that's been the overwhelming sentiment about read option for the better part of two seasons now.

I do consider the read-option to be a gimmick offense but it was wrong to bring it up in the context of this one play.  But if one were to take the definitions of the read-option from this thread then every pass is a read option because the QB reads the defense and then has the option to throw to WR1/2 or 3 or the option to run if things are covered.

 

 

Oh well, I am done with this thread.  People will call it what they want and in the end it doesn't really matter if I'm right or wrong.  (Although I am right. ;) )

[Larry Horseman]

In all seriousness, I think it was a fake read option. That is, Luck never intended to hand the ball off to TRich but executed a read option style run fake. There's no doubt he was looking at Hali, but why wouldn't he be regardless? He was the one player Luck had to beat so watching what he was doing was crucial.