Team Needs But Which One Address First?

[dn4192]

People are saying trade back into the 18-32's??? what is the point of losing if we aren't gonna draft high? Aren't you guys tired of drafting so low?

I don't think are advocating trading that far back. What they are wanting is say to trade the overall number 1 and get a pick in say the 5-10 range in the first round plus a late 1st round pick and a couple of other round picks.

[Trips4Lyfe]

QB should be a focus only when the perfect fit show up, somebody maybe who has worked with Peyton before & not named Andrew Luck.

[smittywerb]

I don't think are advocating trading that far back. What they are wanting is say to trade the overall number 1 and get a pick in say the 5-10 range in the first round plus a late 1st round pick and a couple of other round picks.

I wouldn't mind that. It's just some people actually wouldn't mind trading that far back for more picks and to me that defeats the purpose of losing.

[joo 2h]

add to the team needs Head Coach,

[a06cc]

QB should be a focus only when the perfect fit show up, somebody maybe who has worked with Peyton before & not named Andrew Luck.

Actually Andrew Luck has worked with Peyton. He attended on regular to the Manning passing academy. It's going to be really interest to see what the Colts will do.

[BOONE]

My vote.....HC

[Jason_]

Actually Andrew Luck has worked with Peyton. He attended on regular to the Manning passing academy. It's going to be really interest to see what the Colts will do.

There were several current college QBs at that academy. I hear it mentioned in several of the games I watch. Just a few of the other QB's I've heard mentioned who were also there are Nick Foles, the QB from Tulane, I believe Kellen Moore and Matt Barkley as well and I'm sure there are many others I'm not aware of. I wouldn't use that as there being a connection between Luck and Manning...and I'm not saying you were just wanted to point it out.

[Coltsfanman1953]

Can we draft a head coach?

[BIGugly]

I would say first priority is a new coaching staff, and then let them make the decisions as to whom to add to the lineup.

Exactly ! ! !

[Mouthfire]

You might be right...the biggest need "right now" may not be the QB position, but you have to look long term also and when presented with the opportunity to draft a talent at the most important position in the sport that is considered the overall best prospect in the draft, you can't pass on that. If Peyton was in year 3-4 or 5 I would agree, but he is in his final 2-3 years, thus you when presented with this opportunity should it happen, you can't pass on Luck. As we have seen a great QB can cover for other issues. How many teams are on the Level of the Colts have been due to a HOF CB? So unless a defensive player on the level of a Lawarence Taylor is available, you go with Luck.

I don't know where you're getting this "2-3 years left" thing from.

Manning is signed for 5 more years, I believe. I don't see any reason to believe he won't play out those years.

[Mouthfire]

Didn't the Eagles go out and sign one of the best shut down DB's in the game? How is that working for them? The Jets have probably the best shut down guy there is....how many SB has he led them to?

Asomoghe is adjusting to a new scheme... he'll be fine. Revis has a HUGE impact on the Jets D. He may have never won a SB, but he doesn't have Manning and an elite offense on the other half of the team, either.

[number28]

On offense OG and C, T and a solid RB ( I know many will disagree, but I would take RB with 1st pick, something what we did with Faulk and James) They both proved to be great players.

WR? why? we need to get rid of some, we have too many. Forget WR.

On Defense we need to get not one, but two or even three CB's because right now we don't have any. One CB will not be enough.

[number28]

Revis has a HUGE impact on the Jets D. He may have never won a SB, but he doesn't have Manning and an elite offense on the other half of the team, either.

yeah and they are 4-3, winning games without solid offensive play, beat SD (something the Colts can't do even with PM) and Jets go to AFC championship games like it's a given. No offense, no legendary QB etc.

why can't we be like them?

[dn4192]

I don't know where you're getting this "2-3 years left" thing from.

Manning is signed for 5 more years, I believe. I don't see any reason to believe he won't play out those years.

Manning signed for 5, this season is done that leaves 4. Out of those 4 I give him two maybe 3 of quality to average quality play given his age and injury issue. I bring in Luck, he learns for 2 seasons and takes over in season 3. Peyton can:

1. Retire if he likes

2. Play the back up aging mentor QB

3. Ask to be traded

I really don't care, but I don't want him as my QB at age 39 or older when I can have a young good QB back there.

[dn4192]

Asomoghe is adjusting to a new scheme... he'll be fine. Revis has a HUGE impact on the Jets D. He may have never won a SB, but he doesn't have Manning and an elite offense on the other half of the team, either.

Yes he will be fine, but he isn't a difference maker in getting this team to a SB like a starting QB can be.

[dn4192]

yeah and they are 4-3, winning games without solid offensive play, beat SD (something the Colts can't do even with PM) and Jets go to AFC championship games like it's a given. No offense, no legendary QB etc.

why can't we be like them?

What come up short in the AFC championship game? That is what you want to be like?

[Mouthfire]

Manning signed for 5, this season is done that leaves 4. Out of those 4 I give him two maybe 3 of quality to average quality play given his age and injury issue. I bring in Luck, he learns for 2 seasons and takes over in season 3. Peyton can:

1. Retire if he likes

2. Play the back up aging mentor QB

3. Ask to be traded

I really don't care, but I don't want him as my QB at age 39 or older when I can have a young good QB back there.

Regarding bolded part... maybe, maybe not. By all accounts, he's going to make a full recovery from the surgery.

Also, there's actually a chance he his arm strength might be better next year than it's been in the recent past. It hasn't been spoken about a lot, but Peyton's arm strength has really been on the decline the past 5 or so years... but now we know why: he had a herniated disk that was impinging the nerves that go to his arm. Assuming that they took care of that with the surgery, his arm strength actually might be better than the last few years.

Edited October 26, 2011 by Mouthfire

[Mouthfire]

Yes he will be fine, but he isn't a difference maker in getting this team to a SB like a starting QB can be.

It's not that simple. I like my chances better with a HOF quarterback WITH a shut-down corner to win a Superbowl.... rather than a potentially good QB (remember... it's not a guarantee he'll pan out) WITHOUT a shut-down corner.

That's the real difference there..

Edited October 26, 2011 by Mouthfire

[The Peytonator]

The only person I agree with in this thread is Jason.

He is absolutely right, our lack of talent in the secondary is having a massive trickle down effect on everything else. When our Mike linebacker is dropping 15 yards off the LOS to help in coverage, you know you have a problem. We run the same defensive scheme every down. Our LBs are not undersized for a 4-3. Pat Angerer is the same size as Patrick Willis, nobody's calling Willis undersized. Wheeler and Conner are both about the same size and 240ish is not small for an OLB. Our D-line is definitely not undersized. Freeney has said he keeps his game weight between 268 and 272. That is not undersized for a pass rusher. Anderson and Brayton are both 280 plus. Not at all undersized for DEs. The DTs are all 300 plus. When healthy a DT rotation of Nevis, Johnson, and Moala can be dominant. Maybe not to the point of getting a lot of sacks, but still very stout. We do not lack talent in the front 7. It is all in the secondary.

In the draft I'd like to see us get our QB of the future. I don't watch much college football, but I'm not sold on Luck. Then again I am rarely sold on college quarterbacks. There is too much uncertainty. I've watched some highlights of Luck and while he does have a strong arm, he also has the best line in college football. His receivers are always really easy to hit. I could hit those guys in that system. Put him in the NFL where he has 3 seconds to pass on a good play and you never know how he'll respond. I wouldn't be upset with Luck though, he'd have plenty of time to adapt sitting behind the GOAT for a few years.

Obviously we need to look at corners, safeties, wideouts, and possibly guard/center. I like our oline with Castonzo, Reitz, Pollak, new guard, and Ijalana, so I don't know if we necessarily need to draft a guard. Tepper or that new guy we have playing RT could possibly be good enough to take over next year. If we let Mathis go we'll need a new pass rusher. That position is one in which you can never be certain of what you're getting so I'd try to fill that need in a later round. At safety I'd say hope that Bullitt can stay healthy or look in free agency. Really any of these spots could be filled in free agency. But knowing the Colts they won't gamble on a proven player, they'd rather go with the sure thing that is the draft.

[Jaric]

It should be...you draft the best available player at the position that is your greatest need, not the best available period. A quarterback in the first round is not the Colts most pressing need right now. How can people not see this?

Wait what? How is QB not a pressing need? We don't even know if Manning is coming back next season let alone past that. And even if he is coming back past next season, we'll get what? 2-3 seasons out of him if we're lucky?

If a QB is on the board that we think is "the guy" we'd be fools not to draft him, even if only to sit on the bench a year or two to get acclimated to the NFL so that when Manning does retire we don't end up panicing again and trying to drag Kerry Collins out of retirement.

[Andy]

I'd say our first priority is a new CB. I say we should also get rid of the goons behind the headset. First Caldwell. After that, we could worry about guard, and defensive tackle, which are not necessities but needs.

[dn4192]

Regarding bolded part... maybe, maybe not. By all accounts, he's going to make a full recovery from the surgery.

Also, there's actually a chance he his arm strength might be better next year than it's been in the recent past. It hasn't been spoken about a lot, but Peyton's arm strength has really been on the decline the past 5 or so years... but now we know why: he had a herniated disk that was impinging the nerves that go to his arm. Assuming that they took care of that with the surgery, his arm strength actually might be better than the last few years.

Your right it might, but again time is not on Petyon's or the Colts side with him. That is why I feel it is unwise for the Colts to spend the next few drafts adding players that might help Peyton to another SB, instead they need to draft his replacement and the players that will fit that QB's style and direction the team will take under him.

[dn4192]

I'd say our first priority is a new CB. I say we should also get rid of the goons behind the headset. First Caldwell. After that, we could worry about guard, and defensive tackle, which are not necessities but needs.

so you want our top draft pick to be for a player who might be involved with maybe 20-25% of the overall players ina game over someone who contols 100% of the game?

[Jaric]

I'd say our first priority is a new CB. I say we should also get rid of the goons behind the headset. First Caldwell. After that, we could worry about guard, and defensive tackle, which are not necessities but needs.

I think I said this before, but what our team needs look like will depend very greatly on our front office and coaching staff situation. Until that's settled it almost impossible to determine priority of needs.

Although that said, I don't see any situation where our current secondary will be acceptable (with the exception of Bethea) and Unless Irsay finds the fountain of youth, we will have to deal with the QB situation in the near future.

[ponys]

I've got the solution, this will fix our defense and head coaching job. We hire Rob Ryan from Dallas!

And our Jets envy!

Edited October 26, 2011 by ponys

[BOTT]

QB should be a focus only when the perfect fit show up, somebody maybe who has worked with Peyton before & not named Andrew Luck.

so you want a qb, just not the best prospect since john elway......

[Jaric]

I don't know where you're getting this "2-3 years left" thing from.

Manning is signed for 5 more years, I believe. I don't see any reason to believe he won't play out those years.

Have you looked at the contract?

He gets 23 mil a year the first 3 years. Then it plummets to around 15 or 16 mil a year.

Usually, when you see that dramatic a drop, those years of the contract were never intended to be played under, and were added simply for window dressing.

Now, I admit it's certainly possible he plays longer than that, but I am not counting on it.

[Jaric]

I've got the solution, this will fix our defense and head coaching job. We hire Rob Ryan from Dallas!

And our Jets envy!

He was the New England staff during their superbowl run (I believe as a linebacker coach) From what I understand, he's not nearly as obnoxious as his brother and father. He's still a Ryan though, so he's got some bite to him.

I'm actually intrigued by Ryan as a head coaching prospect. Not enough to knock Fisher out of my top spot (for now) but I can think of worse hires.

[-JJ-]

He was the New England staff during their superbowl run (I believe as a linebacker coach) From what I understand, he's not nearly as obnoxious as his brother and father. He's still a Ryan though, so he's got some bite to him.

I'm actually intrigued by Ryan as a head coaching prospect. Not enough to knock Fisher out of my top spot (for now) but I can think of worse hires.

Yes he was with NE as a LB coach. I too am intrigued by him as a coach. He seems more dedicated to football than his own ego...unlike the other Ryans:)

That hair,...man lol.

[Jaric]

Yes he was with NE as a LB coach. I too am intrigued by him as a coach. He seems more dedicated to football than his own ego...unlike the other Ryans:)

That hair,...man lol.

Say what you want about the Ryan family, they do know defense.

[ponys]

Buddy Ryan wasn't the best head coach but, I can't think of a better defense one.

[smittywerb]

The only person I agree with in this thread is Jason.

He is absolutely right, our lack of talent in the secondary is having a massive trickle down effect on everything else. When our Mike linebacker is dropping 15 yards off the LOS to help in coverage, you know you have a problem. We run the same defensive scheme every down. Our LBs are not undersized for a 4-3. Pat Angerer is the same size as Patrick Willis, nobody's calling Willis undersized. Wheeler and Conner are both about the same size and 240ish is not small for an OLB. Our D-line is definitely not undersized. Freeney has said he keeps his game weight between 268 and 272. That is not undersized for a pass rusher. Anderson and Brayton are both 280 plus. Not at all undersized for DEs. The DTs are all 300 plus. When healthy a DT rotation of Nevis, Johnson, and Moala can be dominant. Maybe not to the point of getting a lot of sacks, but still very stout. We do not lack talent in the front 7. It is all in the secondary.

In the draft I'd like to see us get our QB of the future. I don't watch much college football, but I'm not sold on Luck. Then again I am rarely sold on college quarterbacks. There is too much uncertainty. I've watched some highlights of Luck and while he does have a strong arm, he also has the best line in college football. His receivers are always really easy to hit. I could hit those guys in that system. Put him in the NFL where he has 3 seconds to pass on a good play and you never know how he'll respond. I wouldn't be upset with Luck though, he'd have plenty of time to adapt sitting behind the GOAT for a few years.

Obviously we need to look at corners, safeties, wideouts, and possibly guard/center. I like our oline with Castonzo, Reitz, Pollak, new guard, and Ijalana, so I don't know if we necessarily need to draft a guard. Tepper or that new guy we have playing RT could possibly be good enough to take over next year. If we let Mathis go we'll need a new pass rusher. That position is one in which you can never be certain of what you're getting so I'd try to fill that need in a later round. At safety I'd say hope that Bullitt can stay healthy or look in free agency. Really any of these spots could be filled in free agency. But knowing the Colts they won't gamble on a proven player, they'd rather go with the sure thing that is the draft.

I agree with you but want to point out a few other things.

Yes, we are growing in size, but decreasing in talent. We need talent to go along with the size. You named some good players but some players on our team are not that talented even though they have size (Antonio Johnson, Wheeler, etc.)

Another thing, we DO lack talent in the front 7. Besides Angerman, Dwight, Robert, and maybe Nevis if he continues to come along, we are not good, mediocre at best. It's just that our DB's are worse than our front 7.

[Malakai432]

I'm down with getting Luck (if possible). Personally I don't think one first round draft pick is going to help get the Colts to the SB. If they draft Luck, they have a franchise player that might be good enough to lead the Colts to some SBs down the road. If Peyton is healthy for 2-3 years their will always be a chance they can get back with him at the helm & I don think one solid DT/CB/OL picked in the first will propel them to a SB. It would be very tough but possible. Now if Manning is 100% and has 4 yrs left & they (seriously rip off) a team for Luck that is a different story.

They definitely need to implement a new DC before they change up the defense anyways. They need a fair overhaul.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Malakai432

[UND3RDOGG]

Okay, I agree as much as the next person about how bad our secondary is and how CB is a graring need for this team. However, For all those saying we should use our first pick (1-5 overall wherever we finish up) on a corner IMO is madness.

Drafting a rookie corner that highly is not going to immediately help our team. Look at Patrick Peterson for the Cardinals this year. He is touted as the best CB out since Revis and although he may still prove to be that, this season he (like all rookies) is leaking big plays against him.

I am a beleiver that it is in the best interest for our team to trade down from hopefully the number 1 overall pick for a king's ransom (which will be offered by several teams who want luck). If we manage to grab a first rounder from Miami, Seattle, Cleveland, we will still have a top 6 pick. With that I would subscirbe to the theory of taking the best Corner, DT or OT whichever has the highest player on our draft board.

I would love to see us draft a good WR later on (round 2) like Jeff Fuller if we can get him there. WR is not a position we are lacking at right now, however this time next year I think we would regret it if we don't this year. Reggie Wayne as much as i love him will ask for a lot of money and with his age you just know that Polian won't want to offer him a multi-year deal. Fuller would be the ideal WR for us to get. He would complement Garcon well, he is a big body who lacks breakaway speed. So whilst Pierre stretches defenses. Fuller can be the matchup problem for one-on-one corners because of his size and physicality.

[Balzer40]

The only person I agree with in this thread is Jason.

He is absolutely right, our lack of talent in the secondary is having a massive trickle down effect on everything else. When our Mike linebacker is dropping 15 yards off the LOS to help in coverage, you know you have a problem. We run the same defensive scheme every down. Our LBs are not undersized for a 4-3. Pat Angerer is the same size as Patrick Willis, nobody's calling Willis undersized. Wheeler and Conner are both about the same size and 240ish is not small for an OLB. Our D-line is definitely not undersized. Freeney has said he keeps his game weight between 268 and 272. That is not undersized for a pass rusher. Anderson and Brayton are both 280 plus. Not at all undersized for DEs. The DTs are all 300 plus. When healthy a DT rotation of Nevis, Johnson, and Moala can be dominant. Maybe not to the point of getting a lot of sacks, but still very stout. We do not lack talent in the front 7. It is all in the secondary.

In the draft I'd like to see us get our QB of the future. I don't watch much college football, but I'm not sold on Luck. Then again I am rarely sold on college quarterbacks. There is too much uncertainty. I've watched some highlights of Luck and while he does have a strong arm, he also has the best line in college football. His receivers are always really easy to hit. I could hit those guys in that system. Put him in the NFL where he has 3 seconds to pass on a good play and you never know how he'll respond. I wouldn't be upset with Luck though, he'd have plenty of time to adapt sitting behind the GOAT for a few years.

Obviously we need to look at corners, safeties, wideouts, and possibly guard/center. I like our oline with Castonzo, Reitz, Pollak, new guard, and Ijalana, so I don't know if we necessarily need to draft a guard. Tepper or that new guy we have playing RT could possibly be good enough to take over next year. If we let Mathis go we'll need a new pass rusher. That position is one in which you can never be certain of what you're getting so I'd try to fill that need in a later round. At safety I'd say hope that Bullitt can stay healthy or look in free agency. Really any of these spots could be filled in free agency. But knowing the Colts they won't gamble on a proven player, they'd rather go with the sure thing that is the draft.

On the underlined part, you do know that is what the Tampa 2 defense is.....right? The Tampa 2 requires the MLB drop into coverage.

Edited October 27, 2011 by Balzer40

[Thewholefnshow28]

On the underlined part, you do know that is what the Tampa 2 defense is.....right? The Tampa 2 requires the MLB drop into coverage.

I think people fail to realize that sometimes. Our scheme has always been the Tampa 2 and Brackett would do the same exact thing when we had Hayden and Jackson in their prime. Our defense has not changed because we have less talent. We are playing the same exact way we did in our Super Bowl run a few years back.

I think a lot of it depends on where we draft and what we do with the coaching staff. I hope we bring in a new scheme and new DC so I think we should definitely focus on the defense. We need to build a defense that can stand on its own and does not need the almighty Peyton to coddle them. We need to have a defense that is aggressive about getting off the field not a defense that just doesn't give up the big play and relies on the offense messing up basically.

Also if we get the first pick overall we could hold that thing for ransom big time. The Phins will want to give up a kings ransom for that pick and we could be looking at three or four extra picks in next years draft. We could really revitalize this team in next years draft if we get that first overall.

[Jason_]

Just to clarify, in my first post when I mentioned the LBs dropping deep to help in coverage I was talking about the OLBs as well as the MLB. The OLBs have been dropping deeper than most teams would drop them even if they were running the tampa 2 coverage (which is fine as a situational coverage but shouldn't be a "base defense"). Many have speculated, and even reported players saying the same thing, that the OLBs are dropping deeper to help in coverage due to weak CB play. Regardless of the reason, however, Conner especially but Wheeler sometimes as well drop deeper than cover 2 or tampa 2 LBs typically would.

Tampa 2 as a coverage doesn't even have to be with 4-3 personnel...several teams run tampa 2 coverage from nickel or dime personnel so those up middle zones are covered by CBs or Safeties instead of LBs. Why? Because tampa 2 is more of a situational coverage defense best saved for 3rd and long but Colts have been running it a lot on 1st and 2nd downs.

I'm not saying anyone agreed or disagreed with this premise, just wanted to clarify what I meant on the first page.

[BIGugly]

Just to clarify, in my first post when I mentioned the LBs dropping deep to help in coverage I was talking about the OLBs as well as the MLB. The OLBs have been dropping deeper than most teams would drop them even if they were running the tampa 2 coverage (which is fine as a situational coverage but shouldn't be a "base defense"). Many have speculated, and even reported players saying the same thing, that the OLBs are dropping deeper to help in coverage due to weak CB play. Regardless of the reason, however, Conner especially but Wheeler sometimes as well drop deeper than cover 2 or tampa 2 LBs typically would.

What drives ya crazy about this is, when the ball is snapped, 4 guys move forward and 7 guys move backwards...you can even see it on TV.