Race Card played in RG benching; Comparison to Luck

[amfootball]

Not sure if anyone was watching First Take today but apparently Michael Irvin last night before the game insinuated that Shanny benched RG because he is black and that Luck would never be benched if the roles were reversed.

 

I am not starting this topic to create any racial fireworks but it is interesting discussion as McNabb said this would happen to RG earlier this season. But in fairness to Shanny, RG has been a media cyclone and has not played well. I hate the Luck comparison as that is not fair. Just as unfair as comparing Brady and Dez Bryant on racial lines for their emotion on the sidelines without considering all the other factors of the players, their lives and their careers.

 

What do others think?

[chad72]

Shanahan took the fall for Dan Snyder in the press conference. The fact that he revealed that Snyder and he discussed it in length leads me to believe Shanahan will be back.

 

That was the only way this decision was going to have Snyder's blessing. Say good things about RG3 in the press so that he is not portrayed as a QB playing terribly, the reason being your franchise gave up so much for him and cannot cast negatives on him publicly. Shanahan played that role to a tee, according to Snyder's liking. That is the only way it all makes sense.

 

I don't buy the race card because even Jake Plummer, a white QB, has suggested Shanahan can be a jerk at times and have unrealistic expectations, read this:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24373472/jake-plummer-knows-how-rg3-feels-its-not-a-fun-situation

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/redskins/2013/12/11/washington-redskins-robert-griffin-iii-rg3-mike-shanahan-jake-plummer/3993605/

[TAPLOOK]

Irving? I don't believe that? Michael Irving? Who's next Jackson and Sharpton?

[BOTT]

I want sure Irvin was talking about race or the dysfunction of the redskins organization

[The Fish]

AS RG3 said, “In a land of freedom we are held hostage by the tyranny of political correctness". 

 

Irvin is a mildly entertaining maniac, but this faux race baiting is unnecessary and incorrect. The mere mention of race can cause people to go into a frenzy. That's the tyranny of political correctness imo.

 

Though I'd love to see the presser where a reporter asks Shanahan, "did you bench RG3 because you're a racist". 

[BOTT]

Shanahan took the fall for Dan Snyder in the press conference. The fact that he revealed that Snyder and he discussed it in length leads me to believe Shanahan will be back.

 

That was the only way this decision was going to have Snyder's blessing. Say good things about RG3 in the press so that he is not portrayed as a QB playing terribly, the reason being your franchise gave up so much for him and cannot cast negatives on him publicly. Shanahan played that role to a tee, according to Snyder's liking. That is the only way it all makes sense.

 

I don't buy the race card because even Jake Plummer, a white QB, has suggested Shanahan can be a jerk at times and have unrealistic expectations, read this:

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24373472/jake-plummer-knows-how-rg3-feels-its-not-a-fun-situation

I would bet my 401k on Shanahan not being back

[Sports Central1]

By the way, it was black ESPN commentator Rob Parker who was suspended and later fired for calling RG3 a: "Cornball brother" and saying he doesn't have much in common with the black community.  RG3 has been called an "uncle tom" by some blacks too.

 

Comparing RG3 to Luck is ignorant since they are to different style QB's.  One is a spread offense QB and the other is a traditional drop back pass QB.  Comparing RG3 to Luck is like comparing Randall Cunningham to John Elway.  "IF" Luck was a spread offense QB and was running more than throwing and getting injured he would be benched too.

 

Was it racist to bench Tim Tebow?  Is it bigotry against Christianity to not give Tim Tebow a job in the NFL?

Edited December 13, 2013 by Superman

[chad72]

http://q.usatoday.com/2013/12/12/kyle-shanahans-intentions-are-clear/

 

Apparently, Kyle Shanahan disagrees with his Dad.

[Dustin]

I have a feeling this thread will be short-lived.

[oldunclemark]

Not sure if anyone was watching First Take today but apparently Michael Irvin last night before the game insinuated that Shanny benched RG because he is black and that Luck would never be benched if the roles were reversed.

 

I am not starting this topic to create any racial fireworks but it is interesting discussion as McNabb said this would happen to RG earlier this season. But in fairness to Shanny, RG has been a media cyclone and has not played well. I hate the Luck comparison as that is not fair. Just as unfair as comparing Brady and Dez Bryant on racial lines for their emotion on the sidelines without considering all the other factors of the players, their lives and their careers.

 

What do others think?

I wish they;d leave Andrew Luck out of it...a.m.

 

..It suggests that the Colts picked Andrew because he was white and that Indy would not have accepted a black QB

 

I think RG3's problems are his own and somewhat selfinflicted....and have nothing to do with Luck or Russell Wilson, obviously another black QB

[OffensivelyPC]

By the way, it was black ESPN commentator Rob Parker who was suspended and later fired for calling RG3 a: "Cornball brother" and saying he doesn't have much in common with the black community.  RG3 has been called an "uncle tom" by some blacks too.

 

Comparing RG3 to Luck is ignorant since they are to different style QB's.  One is a spread offense QB and the other is a traditional drop back pass QB.  Comparing RG3 to Luck is like comparing Randall Cunningham to John Elway.  "IF" Luck was a spread offense QB and was running more than throwing and getting injured he would be benched too.

 

Was it racist to bench Tim Tebow?  Is it bigotry against Christianity to not give Tim Tebow a job in the NFL?

It's news.  They're all like that.  If you think being inflammatory on TV posing as a news anchor is a recent development, you must have lived under a rock your entire life.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Superman

[oldunclemark]

By the way, it was black ESPN commentator Rob Parker who was suspended and later fired for calling RG3 a: "Cornball brother" and saying he doesn't have much in common with the black community.  RG3 has been called an "uncle tom" by some blacks too.

 

Comparing RG3 to Luck is ignorant since they are to different style QB's.  One is a spread offense QB and the other is a traditional drop back pass QB.  Comparing RG3 to Luck is like comparing Randall Cunningham to John Elway.  "IF" Luck was a spread offense QB and was running more than throwing and getting injured he would be benched too.

 

Was it racist to bench Tim Tebow?  Is it bigotry against Christianity to not give Tim Tebow a job in the NFL?

This discussion began on the NFL network

[amfootball]

I wish they;d leave Andrew Luck out of it...a.m.

 

..It suggests that the Colts picked Andrew because he was white and that Indy would not have accepted a black QB

 

I think RG3's problems are his own and somewhat selfinflicted....and have nothing to do with Luck or Russell Wilson, obviously another black QB

Bringing in Luck is a cheap shot. He has no place in this conversation whatsoever.

[Valpo2004]

I saw a clip on this on NFL AM.  It surprised me because I thought Irvin was smarter then to say something like that.

 

Deion Sanders seemed to be taking the position of "Woah chill out dude."

 

From the parts I saw he kept bringing up white QB's who wouldn't be benched.  But Deion Sanders rightly pointed out that all those guys where playing better then RG3.

[PATS16N0]

I think it has more to do with the fact that Luck is good and a team player and RG3 sucks and is a complete diva.

[oldunclemark]

I think it has more to do with the fact that Luck is good and a team player and RG3 sucks and is a complete diva.

PATS......

 

Guys like Brady and Brees and Manning get a lot of commercials NOW..

 

but when they started out, they were low profile...especially Peyton in Indy..hardly a national media center

 

....Andrew, I believe, chose the same low-profile path even after he had success his first season....

 

Robert did not....He rode the pub wave and you saw him on TV all the time...talking about his idea and his 'brand'

 

 

What happens is..when you start to falter on the field that becomes your brand, too...

 

..anyone would have been benched long time ago with the Redskins record this year

 

I think Shanahan is doing RG3 a favor by not letting him get hammered for the last 3 games.

 

Robert may not see it that way but he'll be better off next season...

 

Matt Schaub's been benched...Michael Vick.....has been benched....RG3 and his fans need to shut up and accept it.

[Buck Showalter]

wow, Irvin said something like that???

shocking...

[Bluboy]

I wish they;d leave Andrew Luck out of it...a.m.

 

..It suggests that the Colts picked Andrew because he was white and that Indy would not have accepted a black QB

 

I think RG3's problems are his own and somewhat selfinflicted....and have nothing to do with Luck or Russell Wilson, obviously another black QB

 

I do believe that if the players race had been reversed, Indy would have traded down and not taken a black QB with the number one pick. I do not believe Indy or the owner would have accepted a black QB. This is only my opinion based on years of observation of both the fans in Indy and the owner of the Colts. I hope I am very wrong about this. 

[Dustin]

I do believe that if the players race had been reversed, Indy would have traded down and not taken a black QB with the number one pick. I do not believe Indy or the owner would have accepted a black QB. This is only my opinion based on years of observation of both the fans in Indy and the owner of the Colts. I hope I am very wrong about this. 

 

You are and it's *ic you would even suggest this.

[Bluboy]

You are and it's *ic you would even suggest this.

 

I hope you are right but I am not sure you will ever see a starting black QB in Indianapolis. 

[The Fish]

I do believe that if the players race had been reversed, Indy would have traded down and not taken a black QB with the number one pick. I do not believe Indy or the owner would have accepted a black QB. This is only my opinion based on years of observation of both the fans in Indy and the owner of the Colts. I hope I am very wrong about this. 

You are. 

Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell think this is beyond stupid.

Without getting to deep here, have you noticed that about 85% of all NFL rosters are populated by African American men?

[BPM_Colt]

I do believe that if the players race had been reversed, Indy would have traded down and not taken a black QB with the number one pick. I do not believe Indy or the owner would have accepted a black QB. This is only my opinion based on years of observation of both the fans in Indy and the owner of the Colts. I hope I am very wrong about this. 

You are a joke

[Bluboy]

You are. 

Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell think this is beyond stupid.

Without getting to deep here, have you noticed that about 85% of all NFL rosters are populated by African American men?

 

I wasn't talking about coaches. Yes, I have noted that. Have you noticed that 85% of the NFL QBs are not black? Have the Colts every had a black QB that started on a regular basis? Have you noticed that too? 

[Bluboy]

You are. 

Tony Dungy and Jim Caldwell think this is beyond stupid.

Without getting to deep here, have you noticed that about 85% of all NFL rosters are populated by African American men?

 

May I suggest that this topic is just too hot to be discussed here? I believe in what I said but I made it clear that it was only my opinion. I think we should all drop this line of discussion right now, it will accomplish nothing and it will upset too many people on both sides of the argument. 

[The Fish]

I wasn't talking about coaches. Yes, I have noted that. Have you noticed that 85% of the NFL QBs are not black? Have the Colts every had a black QB that started on a regular basis? Have you noticed that too? 

In Peyton's tenure here there was no reason to QB shop. When Luck got picked over RG3 it was based on merit, not race and the proof is in the pudding now. 

 

Did you know this year there were 12 black starting QB's on opening day? Frankly I think the underlying implication that either Irsay or the fans are racist is insulting and ignorant.    :clap:  :disco:        :yay:   

[Bluboy]

In Peyton's tenure here there was no reason to QB shop. When Luck got picked over RG3 it was based on merit, not race and the proof is in the pudding now. 

 

Did you know this year there were 12 black starting QB's on opening day? Frankly I think the underlying implication that either Irsay or the fans are racist is insulting and ignorant.    :clap:  :disco:        :yay:   

 

Then you missed my point and this is the last I will speak of it. If Luck had been black and RGIII had been while, I do not know if the Colts would have moved down to take RGIII but I am pretty damn sure they would not have drafted Luck as the franchise QB if he had been black. You can make up for yourself what the underlying implication is, I have said no more than that. There were lots of years before Manning and lots of black QBs starting in the NFL. Were any of them on the Colts? Now, say whatever you want, I am done with this sad subject. I made it clear that it was just my opinion based on years of observing the Colts, Indianapolis and the owner. I also made it clear that I very much want to be wrong.

[BOTT]

Q

[The Fish]

Then you missed my point and this is the last I will speak of it. If Luck had been black and RGIII had been while, I do not know if the Colts would have moved down to take RGIII but I am pretty damn sure they would not have drafted Luck as the franchise QB if he had been black. You can make up for yourself what the underlying implication is, I have said no more than that. There were lots of years before Manning and lots of black QBs starting in the NFL. Were any of them on the Colts? Now, say whatever you want, I am done with this sad subject. I made it clear that it was just my opinion based on years of observing the Colts, Indianapolis and the owner. I also made it clear that I very much want to be wrong.

Your point makes 0% sense. IF's and BUT's. You've devised a scenario where you get to say in effect, "Irsay knows the fans in Indiana won't support a black QB". Then you say you stand by your point, even though it's not rooted in reality, but we shouldn't discuss it and live with your ignorant take? 

 

I hope this is the last you will speak of it, because you're race baiting.    ;)    :highfive:

[BOTT]

May I suggest that this topic is just too hot to be discussed here? I believe in what I said but I made it clear that it was only my opinion. I think we should all drop this line of discussion right now, it will accomplish nothing and it will upset too many people on both sides of the argument. 

May I suggest you stop posting all together?

[Superman]

Topic temporarily locked...

[Superman]

We've removed some off topic and inappropriate posts from this thread.

 

I'm going to open this back up now, but would like for everyone to recognize that this is a touchy subject. Please temper your posts accordingly.

[House]

Makes sense. I mean it certainly isn't because he hadn't played well this year. Obviously not because they won only 3 games. And certainly not because they have a promising back up, whom a lot of coaches, and GMs, want to see play.

Oh wait I thought he was injured all year and shouldn't be playing? Which excuse will it be tomorrow?

Yep it's his skin color. Mystery solved. Someone call Tom Hanks and tell him he is not needed on this one.

I do love how the media has gone into full "RG3" defense mode, since it was reported he was going to be benched.

It's pathetic how these networks let these ignorant human beings run their mouths about every single thought they can conjure. All in the hunt for ratings and attention.

[Superman]

Makes sense. I mean it certainly isn't because he hadn't played well this year. Obviously not because they won only 3 games. And certainly not because they have a promising back up, whom a lot of coaches, and GMs, want to see play.

Oh wait I thought he was injured all year and shouldn't be playing? Which excuse will it be tomorrow?

Yep it's his skin color. Mystery solved. Someone call Tom Hanks and tell him he is not needed on this one.

 

 

[House]

Yeah sorry. This topic gets a little under my skin lol.

I'm not naive enough to think racism doesn't exist anymore. I know it does, and it is still strong in some people.

But to suggest that no other variable, but race, played into Shannys decision to bench RG3 is way over the top IMO.

Plus throwing Luck into this as if he is different then any other white QB. So I didn't really appreciate him getting dragged into this circus unprovoked.

[Balzer40]

Irvin is a complete * and should be fired for being so stupid. To suggest race is the reason for Bobs benching is utterly ridiculous. Bob just sucks like many predicted he would from the beginning. His arrogant, egotistical attitude don't help him either. Kid needs to be humbled and maybe this is Shanny's way of trying to do it, but I highly doubt it works. Bob just seems the type to always remain arrogant, no matter how much he sucks.

[Nadine]

What is more interesting to me is the way Kyle is distancing himself from his father

Plenty of drama there that has nothing to do with race

[azcolt]

Too bad Jimmy the Greek isn't around to educate us on large thighs.

[Superman]

Irvin is a complete * and should be fired for being so stupid. To suggest race is the reason for Bobs benching is utterly ridiculous. Bob just sucks like many predicted he would from the beginning. His arrogant, egotistical attitude don't help him either. Kid needs to be humbled and maybe this is Shanny's way of trying to do it, but I highly doubt it works. Bob just seems the type to always remain arrogant, no matter how much he sucks.

 

You really don't like Griffin, huh???

 

I'll say something some might find a little provocative, but it's part of the discussion. I think some of the traits of Griffin's personality are very prevalent in the black community. (I say this as a black man, by the way.) Some of the arrogance and egotism is part of what black kids do when playing basketball or football or video games or walking through the mall or talking to girls or whatever. (And it's not just black kids, but it's definitely a part of the culture in urban areas.) They talk smack, they brag about their accomplishments, etc. The chest thumping and one-upping and so on is often intrinsic. 

 

That doesn't mean Griffin does these things because he's black, or that other races or cultures don't do these things also. But for some people, when they hear Griffin criticized for being arrogant or egotistical, they hear that as a blanket criticism of black culture. 

 

Then on the other hand, some black figures are criticized by other black people for not being black enough. Listen to Jim Brown's recent comments about Kobe Bryant. It's really sad, to be honest, and I'm not in any way a Kobe Bryant fan.

 

Back to Griffin, you add in the criticism of him as a "running quarterback," and a lot of people associate that with his race as well. So tie all these things in together, and it's not surprising that this issue of race keeps coming up, not to me.

 

I don't agree with Irvin's comments, of course. But it doesn't surprise me. 

[Vance]

Schaub was also benched because he's black. True story.

[GoPats]

Michael Irvin?