How come Terry Bradshaw is never brought up in the GOAT argumemt?

[Dustin]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

[bestQBever]

212 to 210 TD/INT ratio. Never had a passer rating over 88 ( not counting the last season where he completed 5 passes). He just happened to have a great Team around him.

[TAPLOOK]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

I think he should be but am knowingly in the minority.

[TAPLOOK]

212 to 210 TD/INT ratio.

That does hurt.

[OffensivelyPC]

Think 2001-2004 Patriots, but the greatest defense to ever play the game, a HOF running back, and a HOF WR.  If Brady were on that team, they wouldn't have ever lost a superbowl and we'd all hate Steelers fans in perpetuity.

[Le Neon]

Same reason Emmett Smith isn't often mentioned in consideration for GOAT RB. Good players in great situations.

[southwest1]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

SW1 will be the 1st to admit that I am no statistical wizard by any stretch of the imagination, but 4 rings is 4 rings. You do make a valid point. The only thing I can figure is that young NFL fans only know Terry Bradshaw as a TV football analyst on FOX & they are not well versed in the "Steel Curtain" domination years in this league. Just my 2 cents on the issue. 

 

Plus, rightly or wrongly, the fact that Bradshaw acts like a Forrest Gump class clown on the air a lot doesn't do him any favors either. His niche is stupidity or acting foolish, which is why I respect Howie Long so much...A smart guy & good analyst that is forced to put up with Terry's antics. I have a sense of humor sure, but sometimes I wish Terry would just zip it & chill man.

 

Although when the Rams & Bears faced each other & Chris Long tried to prevent his brother on the Bears from getting a fine, I rolled on the floor when Terry said " Come on Bro, you know our parents are here today watching us right?"     

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24280482/chris-long-keeps-brother-kyle-long-from-kicking-rams-teammate

[James Harden]

212 to 210 TD/INT ratio. Never had a passer rating over 88 ( not counting the last season where he completed 5 passes). He just happened to have a great Team around him.

The TD/INT ratio can kill it in an argument that is about GOAT. Those 4 rings he have involved more with teamwork. I believe the Defense helped Bradshaw got those rings. 

[Synthetic]

212 to 210 TD/INT ratio. Never had a passer rating over 88 ( not counting the last season where he completed 5 passes). He just happened to have a great Team around him.

 

 

Have you ever looked at stats for the guys in the 70's? Everyone threw outrageous amounts of interceptions back then since the game was at it's prime level when pass interference and roughing the passer calls didn't march a offense down the field consistently cause someone played good defense.

 

Most quarterbacks in today's age wouldn't last half a season in 1976 playing real defenses and not getting pampered with so many penalties.

[Synthetic]

 I believe the Defense helped Bradshaw got those rings. 

 

 

Super Bowl MVP twice, and almost a third time.

 

 

Go watch the old Steelers offense. Their offense don't get enough credit for being good. Bradshaw and Staubach going to the big game was the showdown between the two best quarterbacks of the entire 1970's era. Those Super Bowls aren't remembered just for the Steelers awesome defense.

 

 

People are quick to discredit Bradshaw and the Steelers offense in general but they were great.

 

Those old guys from the 70's don't get enough respect. Bradshaw was one of the best QB's of his day, and would easily thrive in today's age where QB's are treated like spoiled brats and you can barely touch them. He was one tough old man when you consider the hits he took and how rough defenses were allowed to get back in his day.

 

 

But not just Bradshaw, Staubach is forgotten (One of my favorites), Bert Jones put up one of the best seasons ever, and he don't get much talk (note, Bert didn't have that good of a team either and still thrived), Steve Grogan was pretty good, Fran Tarkenton and Kenny Stabler were machines in their prime, Dan Fouts was good, Brian Griese is forgotten...meanwhile we still hear about ARCHIE MANNING who did nothing for my team but lose, lose, lose and lose but some how deserves credit for things he did not do.

 

 

Back then, QB's weren't stat hogs and tried to shoot up the stats to stroke their egos. The running game is what won it for you most the time. Every team that won a Super Bowl in the 70's, and even the 80's had strong running games. Something this league don't care at all. They will complain if one of the golden boy quarterbacks takes massive hits but they clearly don't care if a RB turns out to be in the same physical condition of Earl Campbell after retirement, and that is the NFL's safety issues in a nutshell.

 

 

Bradshaw went 4-0 in the big game, something no quarterback since Joe Cool (um....that Joe Cool) has done. Winning is what matters, in the end stats are just stats.

[southwest1]

SW1 will be the 1st to admit that I am no statistical wizard by any stretch of the imagination, but 4 rings is 4 rings. You do make a valid point. The only thing I can figure is that young NFL fans only know Terry Bradshaw as a TV football analyst on FOX & they are not well versed in the "Steel Curtain" domination years in this league. Just my 2 cents on the issue. 

 

Plus, rightly or wrongly, the fact that Bradshaw acts like a Forrest Gump class clown on the air a lot doesn't do him any favors either. His niche is stupidity or acting foolish, which is why I respect Howie Long so much...A smart guy & good analyst that is forced to put up with Terry's antics. I have a sense of humor sure, but sometimes I wish Terry would just zip it & chill man.

 

Although when the Rams & Bears faced each other & Chris Long tried to prevent his brother on the Bears from getting a fine, I rolled on the floor when Terry said " Come on Bro, you know our parents are here today watching us right?"     

 

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-football/24280482/chris-long-keeps-brother-kyle-long-from-kicking-rams-teammate

This is why I respect Howie Long so much: His honesty about the brotherly scuffle. Terry, to his credit, was very complementary of Chris & Kyle Long too. It has to be so tough as a parent. Who do you root for? You love both sons equally & unconditionally. 

 

[-JJ-]

Have you ever looked at stats for the guys in the 70's? Everyone threw outrageous amounts of interceptions back then since the game was at it's prime level when pass interference and roughing the passer calls didn't march a offense down the field consistently cause someone played good defense.

 

Most quarterbacks in today's age wouldn't last half a season in 1976 playing real defenses and not getting pampered with so many penalties.

lol how true.

Bart Starr 152/138 TD/INT

Roger Staubach (my favorite too) 153/109

Now look at Brady 353/131

something wrong in denmark there.

If one believes in stats as the deterining factor so be it. For me it's watching the player make the plays when it counts. I saw a few Steeler games in the 70's. Yeah the defense was relentless. But the offense made plays to win. Bradshaw made plays to win.

 

oh add in Ken Stabler with 194/222

[Fx Stryker]

He absolutely is. He has the best playoff record with a .73 winning percentage, in the modern era with more than 5 games. Without a doubt the greatest.

[buccolts]

Because Championships are won by TEAMS, not QBs.

Or..... is it that you must have rings to be considered in GOAT conversations.

I get confused.

 

Use whatever you wish, to support your point.

[southwest1]

lol how true.

Bart Starr 152/138 TD/INT

Roger Staubach (my favorite too) 153/109

Now look at Brady 353/131

something wrong in denmark there.

If one believes in stats as the deterining factor so be it. For me it's watching the player make the plays when it counts. I saw a few Steeler games in the 70's. Yeah the defense was relentless. But the offense made plays to win. Bradshaw made plays to win.

 

oh add in Ken Stabler with 194/222

JJ gets bonus points for the "Hamlet" William Shakespeare reference. It made me LOL! 

 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." Hamlet Act 1, scene 4, 87–91 Nice job of adding some literary sophistication on the forum JJ!  ;) Kudos sir. Kudos. 

 

How bout a "King Lear" reference now? Just Kidding! Okay, I will shut up now.   I don't want to sabotage Dustin's topic. I respect him too much to do that. 

[amfootball]

No league MVPs either.

[southwest1]

Because Championships are won by TEAMS, not QBs.

Or..... is it that you must have rings to be considered in GOAT conversations.

I get confused.

 

Use whatever you wish, to support your point.

You do make a valid point buccolts. QBs who never win rings are often consoled by former players now pundits that not enough pieces were put around them to win or the coaching staff failed. See Dan Marino & Jim Kelly.

 

While HOF QBs with multiple rings like Joe Montana & Steve Young are often praised & singled out for their individual intellectual prowess on the field as the key to why they won several rings.

 

There does seem to be an unwritten rule of contradiction there as to why a QB won or lost & is or is not considered a HOF great. Or rather where the bulk of the blame for failure ultimately falls in the legacy end of things anyway. It's not usually accurate, but it happens all the time. 

 

Just like Peyton Manning, I will defend him forever & whether he wins a 2nd ring or not, I will change my argument accordingly depending on if 18 has 2 rings on his hand or not. It is what it is...While 18 is still playing, I will hold his feet to the fire & demand more...When he retires, I will relax & be more kind in my assessment of Yoda. I will always deem 18 great; the only difference to me is that esteemed level of greatness which is still in the process of being written & far from finished yet IMHO. 

[-JJ-]

JJ gets bonus points for the "Hamlet" William Shakespeare reference. It made me LOL! 

 

"Something is rotten in the state of Denmark." Hamlet Act 1, scene 4, 87–91 Nice job of adding some literary sophistication on the forum JJ!  ;) Kudos sir. Kudos. 

 

How bout a "King Lear" reference now? Just Kidding! Okay, I will shut up now.   I don't want to sabotage Dustin's topic. I respect him too much to do that. 

 Ya know, I never knew where that came from but have heard that saying since I was a kid. So I'm not quite that sophisticated nor could I get one word past Hamlet, or Merchant of Venice or...... but thanks for the heads up ;)

[Shane Bond]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

 

Absolutely. He should be. Our Pats fans would agree too.

 

Its all about the rings. He beats Brady on that.

 

Our latest lovely pats16n0 will totally agree.

[Fx Stryker]

No league MVPs either.

 

But regular season awards mean nothing. It shouldn't need to be explained.

[The Old Crow]

Absolutely. He should be. Our Pats fans would agree too.

Its all about the rings. He beats Brady on that.

Our latest lovely pats16n0 will totally agree.

It is all about rings. That is all I care about. That's why I don't care what people think about Flacco, he just wins. Unitas won, Starr won, Bradshaw won , it's all that matters.

[BOTT]

Because people know deep down the whole "rings" argument is largely nonsense...unless it supports their point of view.

[The Old Crow]

Because people know deep down the whole "rings" argument is largely nonsense...unless it supports their point of view.

Why is it nonsense. All quarterbacks want to win it all above anything else. Do you think Earl Morall would trade his 1968 Super Bowl MVP , for a Colts win in Super Bowl 3. You bet he would.

[supremecoltsfan300]

Bradshaw was a very good quarterback but he's not anywhere in that top 5 GOAT discussion.  He won in the playoffs. He won four rings.  But it's not exactly like he routinely lit it up in the playoffs. He had some really good games and also some absolutely horrible ones where his team still won.  Teams win championships.  Teams win regular season games too.  But in the playoffs, the team component becomes a much bigger factor. 

 

A 66% winning record in the playoffs with 3 times as many TDs as INTs and a passer rating higher than both Manning and Brady.

Know who that is?

 

It's not Montana.

It's not Elway.

It's not Aikman.

It's not Favre.

 

It's Mark Sanchez!

 

Championships matter. Obviously.  But they're not the only thing.  A quarterback's whole career has to be looked at.  How did they perform? Mark Sanchez's first few years were great in the wins department.  That doesn't mean he was responsible for many of them. Bradshaw isn't Sanchez, but let's not act like he was the main reason the Steelers won so much.

 

Bradshaw didn't light it up.  He didn't routinely carry his team.  He didn't fundamentally change the game.  With an average defense, he doesn't have all those rings.  He most likely doesn't even have close to all those wins in the regular season. 

 

He's not in the GOAT discussion. 

 

P.S. To those making sarcastic posts in this thread, well done.  I get the feeling that many people aren't picking up on the veiled sarcasm, but some of us are

[southwest1]

Off to watch the grudge match in the Pacific NW now...Games like this 1 between the Seahawks & Saints is why the NFL is the best sport hands down in my book. JMO. Let the bloodbath for NFC Supremacy Begin...

[Shane Bond]

Bradshaw was a very good quarterback but he's not anywhere in that top 5 GOAT discussion. He won in the playoffs. He won four rings. But it's not exactly like he routinely lit it up in the playoffs. He had some really good games and also some absolutely horrible ones where his team still won. Teams win championships. Teams win regular season games too. But in the playoffs, the team component becomes a much bigger factor.

A 66% winning record in the playoffs with 3 times as many TDs as INTs and a passer rating higher than both Manning and Brady.

Know who that is?

It's not Montana.

It's not Elway.

It's not Aikman.

It's not Favre.

It's Mark Sanchez!

Championships matter. Obviously. But they're not the only thing. A quarterback's whole career has to be looked at. How did they perform? Mark Sanchez's first few years were great in the wins department. That doesn't mean he was responsible for many of them. Bradshaw isn't Sanchez, but let's not act like he was the main reason the Steelers won so much.

Bradshaw didn't light it up. He didn't routinely carry his team. He didn't fundamentally change the game. With an average defense, he doesn't have all those rings. He most likely doesn't even have close to all those wins in the regular season.

He's not in the GOAT discussion.

P.S. To those making sarcastic posts in this thread, well done. I get the feeling that many people aren't picking up on the veiled sarcasm, but some of us are

Only player you can compare Bradshaw is Montana.

Remember, it's all about rings .

[Yehoodi]

No league MVPs either.

 

correction, he has one MVP 1978 . . . which actually is only one behind his nibs Joe Montana who has two, but somehow people think he is head and shoulders about Bradshaw . . . for the life of me I will never figure this out . . . it is all about image and not about reality . . .

[Yehoodi]

212 to 210 TD/INT ratio. Never had a passer rating over 88 ( not counting the last season where he completed 5 passes). He just happened to have a great Team around him.

 

you do know that Johnny Unitas has a 290/253 TD/INT ratio and played on a colts team that was so good that his back won the MVP in 1968 . . . what again am supposed to be looking at when it comes to TD/INT ratio and how it applies to QBs back in the 60s and 70s?

[Yehoodi]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

 

because people are stupid . . . I can't figure it out either . . . the goat conversation is about talent as much as it has to do with image, kind of like a popularity contest, we see this evident in the gold glove award in baseball . . .

 

Some say his TD/INT ratio, but its 212/210, but Johnny U, considered by many to be in the top 10 or 5 all time, has a 290/253 ratio . . . so not sure what is up with this . . .

 

when on looks at Montana v. Bradshaw . . ., and forgot for a moment one acts like a goof ball and the other is cool and suave . ..and look at some key facts . . . you see the following

 

Both played on great teams

Both 4-0 in SB

Both lead the league in QBs stats in given years

Bradshaw has one MVP and Montana two MVPS

Both have help lead their team to wins and division titles

Both had HOF coaches

Both had top 5 Defenses

and so on . . .

 

but somehow people cant get out of their heads the dumb country boy image of Bradshaw and think that is indicative in greatest . . . Rob Gronkowski's image is not that of one being the sharpest knife in the drawer but most people aren't not going to argue this football ability . . . when I look at Bradshaw and Montana I look beyond the image and look at the production on the field . .

 

and for me, Bradshaw does not get the love he deserves . . .  

 

[IndyTrav]

Right or wrong, I think when people think of the 70's Steelers its not Bradshaw that comes to mind.

 

Could be due to marketing, but Bradshaw was a character back in the day, and had plenty of exposure, but for some reason, perhaps he's not memorable. 

 

But the NFL and NFL Films, have glorified those Pitt Defenses for decades, and if not the def, its Franco Harris, or Swann/Stallworth....All of them are parts of iconic NFL Films, whereas I cant recall one on Bradshaw....

[oldunclemark]

He has 4 rings. How this guy isn't considered on par with Montana is mind-bottling.

 

 

I saw Bradshaw play.all his career

 

He's Joe Flacco....a strong arned tough guy who rode an elite defense ..and did well in the post-season

 

Terry seems iike a great guy but he's not near the class of Joe Montana and he would say that.

 

Folks who saw him know that and that's why he is NEVER in the discussion of greatest all time QBs

[BOTT]

I saw Bradshaw play.all his career

He's Joe Flacco....a strong arned tough guy who rode an elite defense ..and did well in the post-season

Terry seems iike a great guy but he's not near the class of Joe Montana and he would say that.

Folks who saw him know that and that's why he is NEVER in the discussion of greatest all time QBs

The two early Super Bowls yes, but he was a difference maker later in his career. But in all honesty, it's impossible to compare guys of past generations with the modern quarterbacks....the game has changed too much. Hell, Bradshaw completed 18 passes combined in his first two Super Bowls.....and won.

[Shane Bond]

I saw Bradshaw play.all his career

He's Joe Flacco....a strong arned tough guy who rode an elite defense ..and did well in the post-season

Terry seems iike a great guy but he's not near the class of Joe Montana and he would say that.

Folks who saw him know that and that's why he is NEVER in the discussion of greatest all time QBs

But he is better than anyone who has lesser than 4 rings.

It's all about the rings. It's all about the rings.

[T Y Goodbye]

How can you consider Bradshaw as a GOAT, when he couldn't even beat out Phil Robertson (The Dad of Duck Dynasty) in college?

 

as they say on the one show..

 

C"MON MAN!!!

 

[Hoosierdome93]

Regardless of Bradshaw's TD to INT ratio, Great players around him, or his goofy demeanor he was a great quarterback in a time where the quarterback was usually a snack for a neck breaking line backer and wasn't treated with kid gloves. The game manager responsible for getting the ball into play makers hands making sure his team had more points than the other team at the end of the game.

 

4 super bowl rings is all the argument Terry Bradshaw needs

 

GO COLTS

[southwest1]

How can you consider Bradshaw as a GOAT, when he couldn't even beat out Phil Robertson (The Dad of Duck Dynasty) in college?

 

as they say on the one show..

 

C"MON MAN!!!

 

I did see that show & I do remember Terry Bradshaw talking about Phil Robertson & how Robertson was such an enthusiastic hunter/fisherman/outdoorsman often wandering off into the woods alone every free moment he had.

 

Football was not his true passion that's for sure quack, quack, quack...Boom! Hey, Phil just shot down the aflac insurance TV duck man!   

 

[amfootball]

But regular season awards mean nothing. It shouldn't need to be explained.

I think if we are talking GOAT both rings and stats/regular accomplishments come into play with rings being the most important criteria. And I was wrong as he does have one league MVP.

 

I think one of the reasons Terry is not mentioned is because he constantly says on TV how he was not a very QB. I am not sure if he is just being humble but it hurts his perception.

[SilentHill]

Probably because he admitted to using PED's and his stats leave something to be desired.

[Shane Bond]

I think if we are talking GOAT both rings and stats/regular accomplishments come into play with rings being the most important criteria. And I was wrong as he does have one league MVP.

I think one of the reasons Terry is not mentioned is because he constantly says on TV how he was not a very QB. I am not sure if he is just being humble but it hurts his perception.

4 rings. Can't beat that.

Only player better than him is Joe Montana.

[Mameluc]

cause of their D...they stole all the headlines