Pagano on Colts Hybrid Defense

[HtownColt]

he explains it himself in this article about his defense and his additions to the defense and explains we ran very little 2-gap 3-4

Looking back, coach Chuck Pagano says in 2012 Indianapolis didn’t use a lot of the sort of 3-4 scheme most of us think of at all.

“With a nose and two big defensive ends, 5-technique types, playing 2-gap?” Pagano said. “I would say very, very, very little were we ever in a straight 2-gap. I think trying to go from a straight 4-3, which we ran for so long here and the way that our roster was set a year ago personnel-wise, it would have been asking a ton of these guys to go from the system and scheme they’d been running. It was hard enough asking the guys to make the transition and they did a great job.”

In free agency and the draft, Indianapolis added three defensive linemen ( Ricky Jean Francois, Aubrayo Franklin and Montori Hughes) and three outside linebackers ( Erik Walden, Lawrence Sidbury and Bjoern Werner). That group will help the Colts dramatically reshape their front. All of them but Werner, the first-round pick, can be labeled as 3-4 players coming in, arriving in Indianapolis with 3-4 experience.

But, Pagano said, don’t rush to drop the hybrid tag.

“We’re not going to say, ‘Hey, we’re a 3-4 team, we’re a 4-3 team, an under team, an over team,'” Pagano said. “So it’s best to classify us as a hybrid 3-4 defense. The system that I came from [in Baltimore], the systems [defensive coordinator] Greg Manusky has been part of, they’ve all had flexibility to them.

Given the new personnel and the newly healthy personnel, how much more 3-4 will we see?

“I can’t tell you an exact number,” Pagano said. “A lot will depend on the type of scheme we see week in, week out. That will determine how much of that you want to show, how much of that you want to play. Certainly from a personnel standpoint, we have the body types, we have guys who have played in the system and understand it. If you want to play the traditional odd front, we’re a lot closer today than we were any time last year."

"We're going to be a pretty good 3-4 team in our second year in the system. We'll be a lot more comfortable in it," said Drake Nevis.

Surely, though, it’ll be a lot more than “very little”?

“I wouldn’t say a significant amount,” Pagano said. Then, laughing, he continued: “Time will tell. I can’t give you my whole hand, Paul.”

Defensive tackle Drake Nevis is heading into his third year, but just his second in a 3-4. He played in a 4-3 scheme at LSU and in his rookie year with the Colts.

“We’re going to be a pretty good 3-4 team in our second year in the system,” Nevis said. "We’ll be a lot more comfortable in it. Pretty much in a 4-3, you’re responsible for one gap, you can penetrate a lot more. In a 3-4 you have to be more disciplined. You just have to teach your mind to be more disciplined with your hands and with your steps and everything.”

You can read the whole article here

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=afcsouth&id=49898&src=desktop

[NewColtsFan]

Toward the bottom of the full article,  Pagano says he expects that the team will keep 6 or 7 D-Lineman....

 

That the rest of his guys will wind up with other teams...

 

I think his quote was....   "all of these guys will wind up with jobs....    we just don't know here..."

 

We've come a long way in a short time....

[theanarchist]

interesting. Could be some guys get cut that we don't expect

[#BringBobBack]

wonder who will be cut my guess will be tevaseu and Mathews but prop just because im hoping we keep McKinney also hoping we keep Ijalana and give him a fighting chance my two favorite comebacks on the roster

[BPM_Colt]

Will be very interesting to see who is cut this year... 6 or 7 I say we keep

 

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Matthews

7. Hughes

 

Agree or disagree?

[HtownColt]

Will be very interesting to see who is cut this year... 6 or 7 I say we keep

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Matthews

7. Hughes

Agree or disagree?

Moala should be on PUP to start the season and I think Nevis makes it for sure because he can play in any front we throw out there

[Gavin]

1.RJF

2.Redding

3.Franklin

4.Tevasue

5.Chapman

6.Hughes

7.Guy

 

If Moala is healthy then subtract Guy amd put in Moala do to his versatility to play inside and out at DE

[BPM_Colt]

Moala should be on PUP to start the season and I think Nevis makes it for sure because he can play in any front we throw out there

Thats right.. I forgot how late in the season Moala actually got hurt. So I will slide Nevis in there.

 

Looks pretty good to me, just hope that translates to the season

[RomanianColtsFan]

The exact quote is "All of these guys are going to have jobs, we just don’t know where,” Pagano said. “They’ll make it somewhere."

Actually Kuharsky says that Pagano figures the Colts will keep six or seven defensive linemen.

I think the preseason will determine the last couple of spots on DL because many of those players are close in value.

[HarassedOffTheSite]

...just because im hoping we keep McKinney also hoping we keep Ijalana......my two favorite comebacks on the roster

 

Yeah, no. da.mn that!

 

If they aren't healthy and ready to go, chuck deuce! We've got Super Bowls to win. We can't be waiting around for Disney movie scripts to manifest.

[Superman]

The exact quote is "All of these guys are going to have jobs, we just don’t know where,” Pagano said. “They’ll make it somewhere."

Actually Kuharsky says that Pagano figures the Colts will keep six or seven defensive linemen.

I think the preseason will determine the last couple of spots on DL because many of those players are close in value.

 

I hate when they paraphrase like that. It would be awesome to just get a raw transcript and see what the heck was said for yourself.

 

But if we do keep 7 actual defensive linemen, I would say this is the list, as of right now:

 

Chapman, Franklin, Hughes, Redding, RJF, Nevis, Mathews. Moala and McKinney on PUP to start the season.

[AntonMcG]

Great to hear these things from the horses' mouth. Reinforces a lot of my assumptions.

 

I think we will see a lot more 3-4 2-gap this year, especially in division games where we play run heavy offenses. We simply did not have the personnel to execute it effectively last year. That being said, I think our linebackers will be all over the place to try to disguise blitzes and come at teams from different angles.

 

The key to success of this defense is obviously stout run defense, versatility, and scheme-fits to minimize matchup issues that good QBs love to exploit.

 

Finally, we have the personnel to execute what has proven to be a very efficient system.

 

I think this could be the most complete defense we have had in recent times.

[chad72]

Great to hear these things from the horses' mouth. Reinforces a lot of my assumptions.

 

I think we will see a lot more 3-4 2-gap this year, especially in division games where we play run heavy offenses. We simply did not have the personnel to execute it effectively last year. That being said, I think our linebackers will be all over the place to try to disguise blitzes and come at teams from different angles.

 

The key to success of this defense is obviously stout run defense, versatility, and scheme-fits to minimize matchup issues that good QBs love to exploit.

 

Finally, we have the personnel to execute what has proven to be a very efficient system.

 

I think this could be the most complete defense we have had in recent times.

 

Yep, that is what they were striving for eventually but did not have the horses to play that last year.

 

Besides, there was a stat from the Ravens in 2011 that showed that the Ravens played a 4 man front about 58% of the time either in the form of a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5. So, a lot of times, situations dictated that.

 

The number of DLs is normally higher in a base 4-3 D, the number of LB roster spots will be higher than we are used to.

 

I expect 7 DLs and 7 LBs at least with 11 defensive backs for a total of at least 25 on defense.

[Coltsfanman1953]

Yep, that is what they were striving for eventually but did not have the horses to play that last year.

 

Besides, there was a stat from the Ravens in 2011 that showed that the Ravens played a 4 man front about 58% of the time either in the form of a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5. So, a lot of times, situations dictated that.

 

The number of DLs is normally higher in a base 4-3 D, the number of LB roster spots will be higher than we are used to.

 

I expect 7 DLs and 7 LBs at least with 11 defensive backs for a total of at least 25 on defense.

Wh do you think the final 7 linebackers will be?

[AntonMcG]

Yep, that is what they were striving for eventually but did not have the horses to play that last year.

 

Besides, there was a stat from the Ravens in 2011 that showed that the Ravens played a 4 man front about 58% of the time either in the form of a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5. So, a lot of times, situations dictated that.

 

The number of DLs is normally higher in a base 4-3 D, the number of LB roster spots will be higher than we are used to.

 

I expect 7 DLs and 7 LBs at least with 11 defensive backs for a total of at least 25 on defense.

 

I can't see us having any less than 8 LBs.

[Smonroe]

Yep, that is what they were striving for eventually but did not have the horses to play that last year.

 

Besides, there was a stat from the Ravens in 2011 that showed that the Ravens played a 4 man front about 58% of the time either in the form of a 4-3-4 or a 4-2-5. So, a lot of times, situations dictated that.

 

The number of DLs is normally higher in a base 4-3 D, the number of LB roster spots will be higher than we are used to.

 

I expect 7 DLs and 7 LBs at least with 11 defensive backs for a total of at least 25 on defense.

Sounds about right, that leaves 25 on O.

Gavin gave his front 7, looked pretty solid right now.

[chrisfarley]

he explains it himself in this article about his defense and his additions to the defense and explains we ran very little 2-gap 3-4

Looking back, coach Chuck Pagano says in 2012 Indianapolis didn’t use a lot of the sort of 3-4 scheme most of us think of at all.

“With a nose and two big defensive ends, 5-technique types, playing 2-gap?” Pagano said. “I would say very, very, very little were we ever in a straight 2-gap. I think trying to go from a straight 4-3, which we ran for so long here and the way that our roster was set a year ago personnel-wise, it would have been asking a ton of these guys to go from the system and scheme they’d been running. It was hard enough asking the guys to make the transition and they did a great job.”

In free agency and the draft, Indianapolis added three defensive linemen ( Ricky Jean Francois, Aubrayo Franklin and Montori Hughes) and three outside linebackers ( Erik Walden, Lawrence Sidbury and Bjoern Werner). That group will help the Colts dramatically reshape their front. All of them but Werner, the first-round pick, can be labeled as 3-4 players coming in, arriving in Indianapolis with 3-4 experience.

But, Pagano said, don’t rush to drop the hybrid tag.

“We’re not going to say, ‘Hey, we’re a 3-4 team, we’re a 4-3 team, an under team, an over team,'” Pagano said. “So it’s best to classify us as a hybrid 3-4 defense. The system that I came from [in Baltimore], the systems [defensive coordinator] Greg Manusky has been part of, they’ve all had flexibility to them.

Given the new personnel and the newly healthy personnel, how much more 3-4 will we see?

“I can’t tell you an exact number,” Pagano said. “A lot will depend on the type of scheme we see week in, week out. That will determine how much of that you want to show, how much of that you want to play. Certainly from a personnel standpoint, we have the body types, we have guys who have played in the system and understand it. If you want to play the traditional odd front, we’re a lot closer today than we were any time last year."

"We're going to be a pretty good 3-4 team in our second year in the system. We'll be a lot more comfortable in it," said Drake Nevis.

Surely, though, it’ll be a lot more than “very little”?

“I wouldn’t say a significant amount,” Pagano said. Then, laughing, he continued: “Time will tell. I can’t give you my whole hand, Paul.”

Defensive tackle Drake Nevis is heading into his third year, but just his second in a 3-4. He played in a 4-3 scheme at LSU and in his rookie year with the Colts.

“We’re going to be a pretty good 3-4 team in our second year in the system,” Nevis said. "We’ll be a lot more comfortable in it. Pretty much in a 4-3, you’re responsible for one gap, you can penetrate a lot more. In a 3-4 you have to be more disciplined. You just have to teach your mind to be more disciplined with your hands and with your steps and everything.”

You can read the whole article here

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=afcsouth&id=49898&src=desktop

How do you think Drake Nevis will do this year.  Do you think his injury (can't remember the exact injury) will affect him going forward.  I like this kid.  Some say short arms or whatever.  I think he is kind of a hybrid player himself with a good motor.

[lollygagger8]

I think the starting 7 LB's rotating in/out will be:

 

Mathis

Werner

Freeman

Warner

Sidbury

Conner

Sheppard

 

With these guys duking it out for the 8th spot:

Angerer

Lutrus

McNary

Hickman

Kileen

Prime

Simmons

[HtownColt]

How do you think Drake Nevis will do this year. Do you think his injury (can't remember the exact injury) will affect him going forward. I like this kid. Some say short arms or whatever. I think he is kind of a hybrid player himself with a good motor.

He injured his hand in November

[Coltsfanman1953]

I think the starting 7 LB's rotating in/out will be:

 

Mathis

Werner

Freeman

Warner

Sidbury

Conner

Sheppard

 

With these guys duking it out for the 8th spot:

Angerer

Lutrus

McNary

Hickman

Kileen

Prime

Simmons

What about Mario Harvey?

[ztboiler]

I can't see us having any less than 8 LBs.

We carried 9-10 LB's all of last year.

Freeman

Angerer

Conner

Fokou

Harvey

Mathis 

Freeney

Hughes

Hickman

Westerman/Journeyman

[chrisfarley]

He injured his hand in November

ok thanks, couldn't remember.  Hopefully back to 100 pc

[ztboiler]

Looking back, coach Chuck Pagano says in 2012 Indianapolis didn’t use a lot of the sort of 3-4 scheme most of us think of at all.

“With a nose and two big defensive ends, 5-technique types, playing 2-gap?” Pagano said. “I would say very, very, very little were we ever in a straight 2-gap. I think trying to go from a straight 4-3, which we ran for so long here and the way that our roster was set a year ago personnel-wise, it would have been asking a ton of these guys to go from the system and scheme they’d been running. It was hard enough asking the guys to make the transition and they did a great job.”

 

He is being purposely vague, as any coach would.  There is no doubt that the scheme we played last year and will play this year leaves himself plenty of room to be vague ie. avoid labels such as 2-gap.  Regardless of what terms he uses it was clear that our base D last year was not a 1-gap 4-3 or a 1-gap 3-4 and we were in a 3-4 on run downs a lot and the hybrid 4-3 (3-4 personnel) with reasonable frequency too.  Those looks were not penetrating 1-gap schemes where you are putting your DT's in position to make tackles.  They were holding the point of attack most of the time.  Regardless of your terms our style was more like a classic 3-4 in philosophy.  He doesn't want a label and I don't blame him, but he is making it a big man's game and that defines your terms of engagement.

[ztboiler]

I hate when they paraphrase like that. It would be awesome to just get a raw transcript and see what the heck was said for yourself.

 

But if we do keep 7 actual defensive linemen, I would say this is the list, as of right now:

 

Chapman, Franklin, Hughes, Redding, RJF, Nevis, Mathews. Moala and McKinney on PUP to start the season.

Agree that Moala is likely to start on PUP but I don't think McKinney will.  He looks to be 4th in line at NT and will be 12 months recovered, so barring an injury to one of the other 3, it behooves them to save the 500K delta and let him look for other gainful employment.  I also think that Guy will be kept before Matthews but that neither are on the roster when Moala returns from PUP.  With a year of development, it also wouldn't surprise me if Guy is kept over Nevis when Moala comes back.  I think Guy has long term potential to be groomed in Redding's role, so I think they'll keep him as long as possible, though not over Moala unless his knee doesn't cooperate.  Moala is very talented.

[RomanianColtsFan]

I hate when they paraphrase like that. It would be awesome to just get a raw transcript and see what the heck was said for yourself.

 

But if we do keep 7 actual defensive linemen, I would say this is the list, as of right now:

 

Chapman, Franklin, Hughes, Redding, RJF, Nevis, Mathews. Moala and McKinney on PUP to start the season.

 

Last year at the beginning of the year they kept 5. It is possible they may keep 6 this year because they got better players. I think of the ones you listed McKinney may not make it. Who knows, even Franklin may be let go if somebody else outplays him in the preseason.

[Superman]

Last year at the beginning of the year they kept 5. It is possible they may keep 6 this year because they got better players. I think of the ones you listed McKinney may not make it. Who knows, even Franklin may be let go if somebody else outplays him in the preseason.

 

Yeah, I forgot to add my customary disclaimer: I don't know anything. But if we only kept five last year, it's probably mostly due to the lack of options. When Antonio Johnson is your starting nose tackle, there's a dearth of talent. Later in the year, we added players like Guy, Geathers, Tevaseu, and I think that count went up to seven or eight at one point.

 

Given the possibilities, I think they'll do whatever they can to keep as many bodies as they can in the middle. The defensive tackle position has been ravaged by injuries every year since 2008, and I'm not sure whether that's just the Colts or if it's league wide. But the more we can keep -- whether it's on PUP, or the early season IR designation, or whatever -- the better. So if McKinney isn't absolutely 100% by camp, I'd figure he'd be on PUP while we look at everyone else.

 

As much as I like Nevis, I think he's on the bubble. Mathews as well. The safe players are probably Chapman, Hughes, Redding, and RJF. Everyone else is duking it out for 2 or 3 spots.

[HtownColt]

Last year at the beginning of the year they kept 5. It is possible they may keep 6 this year because they got better players. I think of the ones you listed McKinney may not make it. Who knows, even Franklin may be let go if somebody else outplays him in the preseason.

We kept 5 initially but mainly to keep room because we were 1st on the waiver wire and we quickly added Tevasue after the Jets cut him, and also picked up Antonio Dixon from the eagles final cuts

[Stephen]

Yeah, I forgot to add my customary disclaimer: I don't know anything. But if we only kept five last year, it's probably mostly due to the lack of options. When Antonio Johnson is your starting nose tackle, there's a dearth of talent. Later in the year, we added players like Guy, Geathers, Tevaseu, and I think that count went up to seven or eight at one point.

 

Given the possibilities, I think they'll do whatever they can to keep as many bodies as they can in the middle. The defensive tackle position has been ravaged by injuries every year since 2008, and I'm not sure whether that's just the Colts or if it's league wide. But the more we can keep -- whether it's on PUP, or the early season IR designation, or whatever -- the better. So if McKinney isn't absolutely 100% by camp, I'd figure he'd be on PUP while we look at everyone else.

 

As much as I like Nevis, I think he's on the bubble. Mathews as well. The safe players are probably Chapman, Hughes, Redding, and RJF. Everyone else is duking it out for 2 or 3 spots.

that's what i'm thinking to

[RomanianColtsFan]

We kept 5 initially but mainly to keep room because we were 1st on the waiver wire and we quickly added Tevasue after the Jets cut him, and also picked up Antonio Dixon from the eagles final cuts

 

Yes, it's been a changing landscape at that position throughout the year. It is important to note that they ended the year with 7 (Redding, R. Mathews, Guy, Johnson, Tevaseu, Geathers, and Heard). I guess expecting anywhere between 5 and 7 D linemen is reasonable.

[ztboiler]

We kept 5 initially but mainly to keep room because we were 1st on the waiver wire and we quickly added Tevasue after the Jets cut him, and also picked up Antonio Dixon from the eagles final cuts

You can't really say that we only kept 5 because we picked up Tevaseu on waivers before the first game and that was all part of the plan.  The two deep for week 1 was Redding/Mathews then AJ/Tevaseu and Moala/Nevis

[HtownColt]

You can't really say that we only kept 5 because we picked up Tevaseu on waivers before the first game and that was all part of the plan. The two deep for week 1 was Redding/Mathews then AJ/Tevaseu and Moala/Nevis

I'm not saying we kept 5, I meant we kept 5 from our own training camp then picked up Tevasue and Dixon off waivers so we actually had 7 DL to start the season, and kept 7 all throughout the year if I'm not mistaken, therefore more than likely we would keep 7 from camp this year

[ztboiler]

I'm not saying we kept 5, I meant we kept 5 from our own training camp then picked up Tevasue and Dixon off waivers so we actually had 7 DL to start the season, and kept 7 all throughout the year if I'm not mistaken, therefore more than likely we would keep 7 from camp this year

Forgot about Dixon - though he wasn't signed until October.  We kept more last year as the season wore on than we typically will when more guys are established in their roles.  Having key guys injured and inactive always has that effect as well.  6 is the number that the Ravens carry when healthy.  I do think we'll carry 7 again this year - at least when Moala gets back.

[unitaswestand]

Will be very interesting to see who is cut this year... 6 or 7 I say we keep

 

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Matthews

7. Hughes

 

Agree or disagree?

 

I think you underestimate Nevis.I would swap Nevis for Matthews

 

 

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Nevis

7. Hughes

 

[unitaswestand]

I have to give Grigson credit.   When something is broken, he really does something about it.    Whether it works or not, we will see. But at least he is trying!   Bill Polian is a HOFer and I love the guy. But it would drive me crazy that we always had problems with  the DLine and OLine and so often little was done to fix it.    Grigson is rolling the dice and dramatically changing everything.   I hope it works out!

[BPM_Colt]

 

Will be very interesting to see who is cut this year... 6 or 7 I say we keep

 

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Matthews

7. Hughes

 

Agree or disagree?

 

I think you underestimate Nevis.I would swap Nevis for Matthews

 

 

1. RJF

2. Redding

3. Chapman

4. Franklin

5. Moala

6. Nevis

7. Hughes

 

 

Now that I think about it... I think Nevis & Matthews will both be on there. Moala will start out on the PUP list..

 

So I replace Moala with Nevis in my original 7

[ztboiler]

Now that I think about it... I think Nevis & Matthews will both be on there. Moala will start out on the PUP list..

 

So I replace Moala with Nevis in my original 7

It sure looked like Guy was getting a fair amount of Matthews' reps at the end of the year.  Wouldn't shock me if Guy is ahead of Matthews on the depth chart entering camp.  Nevis will have to beat out Hughes to crack the 2 deep (assuming Moala starts the year on PUP).  I think they'll have to keep 7 DL + Moala on PUP for either Matthews or Nevis to make the roster.  That is entirely possible - but clearly we'd like to keep 6.

[gbrads_rants]

It sure looked like Guy was getting a fair amount of Matthews' reps at the end of the year.  Wouldn't shock me if Guy is ahead of Matthews on the depth chart entering camp.  Nevis will have to beat out Hughes to crack the 2 deep (assuming Moala starts the year on PUP).  I think they'll have to keep 7 DL + Moala on PUP for either Matthews or Nevis to make the roster.  That is entirely possible - but clearly we'd like to keep 6.

 

I think Guy is the 7th guy...didnt mean that weak pun...but I do think he is...he was a solid performer  and he was a rookie!!! Definite upside with him over Nevis, Matthews, Mckinney,