Polian - Doesn't Believe in Resting Starters

[GoColts8818]

It is simple.  People react differently to different things.  We love the Colts.....we wanted a perfect record......we did not get it.  Twice really it 'could have' happened.

 

I do not get the least upset until I see Bill's comments that are in a role he despised....and we KNOW it was not the coaches decision...Polian wore the brushed brown suit and the jock in this organization.  He is now a member of the 'liars and rats....'  Is he lying?  

 

Just answering your question....you know I love OUR Colts.....and I loved the run with Polian at the helm.....just some things 'hang around I guess....

 

:pass:  :pass:   

We still lost the Super Bowl...  I know people like to over look that fact because it makes the whole week 16 thing moot but it's a fact none the less.

 

 

No we don't KNOW that.  We all just assume that because people decided they wanted to blame Polian after he went on his radio show the next night and shot his mouth off and rather than try to smooth over the PR nightmare added a tone more fuel to the fire.  Polian had a chance to rest the starters in 1999 when he was GM of the Colts and didn't do it.  Resting started with Tony Dungy not Bill Polian again people like to over look that.  I am sure Polian just didn't keep his mouth shut about it but I am also sure Jim Caldwell didn't have no say about it like some like to pretend.  The truth if we will never truly know who had how much say over what that year unless Irsay puts it on his twitter account or Polian or Caldwell writes a tell all book about it. 

 

I know it hangs around and if people truly want to talk about it fine go for it I have no more right to tell them they can't talk about it than they do to tell others they can't talk about things. 

[BrentMc11]

We still lost the Super Bowl...  I know people like to over look that fact because it makes the whole week 16 thing moot but it's a fact none the less.

 

 

No we don't KNOW that.  We all just assume that because people decided they wanted to blame Polian after he went on his radio show the next night and shot his mouth off and rather than try to smooth over the PR nightmare added a tone more fuel to the fire.  Polian had a chance to rest the starters in 1999 when he was GM of the Colts and didn't do it.  Resting started with Tony Dungy not Bill Polian again people like to over look that.  I am sure Polian just didn't keep his mouth shut about it but I am also sure Jim Caldwell didn't have no say about it like some like to pretend.  The truth if we will never truly know who had how much say over what that year unless Irsay puts it on his twitter account or Polian or Caldwell writes a tell all book about it. 

 

I know it hangs around and if people truly want to talk about it fine go for it I have no more right to tell them they can't talk about it than they do to tell others they can't talk about things. 

It does open up old wounds.  Like I said, Polian is a Hall of Famer for sure and brought us Colts fans some great times.....contradictions bite at me...I will not lie.

 

When folks open their mouth in today's world....it is known in an instant as we know....for me this was not good timing....'ticked me off a little...'  Need some sleep I think...I will get over it...until the next Polian thread...  I have been a little chippy today.....maybe like Polian I need a nap 

[GoColts8818]

It's different.

 

Polian made a decision three years ago that he's now saying he would never make. And it affects Colts fans. As you know, I'm one of the primary ones to defend Polian when the criticism gets extreme, from the zealots and blind haters, and so on. But I think his comments here are indefensible. I'm not sure the Peyton Manning comparison is relevant. Manning plays for another team. Polian left the NFL entirely. And this topic is specifically related to a decision he made when he was running the Colts.

 

I'm not here to pile on to him, but I think he's gonna deserve everything he gets on this one, from fans here, from BBS, from everyone. I'm actually shocked he would say something like this.

No it's not. I've been around here WAY too long to believe that so don't try to sell me that.

 

I was here when Dungy left and anytime Dungy's name was brought up right after he left people would scream "He's not a Colt anymore this doesn't belong in the Colt's section."  Then the thread would get moved to NFL General.  They didn't argue this doesn't impact Colts fans anymore.  They argued he isn't a Colt anymore.  Bill Polian is no longer a Colt.  So if the Forum policy that has been established dating all the way back to Tony Dungy is that you can't talk about people who are no longer Colts in the Colts section because they are no longer a Colt then no it's not different because Polian is no longer a Colt. 

 

Samething with Peyton Manning.  If his name is brought up you are going to see people say "he's no longer a Colt".  Threads that were started just to say hey Dallas Clark signed with another team or hey Addai signed with the Pats were moved because they were no longer a Colt even though Colts fans would say hey I like to hear what happened with Ex-Colts.  Again, there is a clear policy that has been established that if someone is no longer a Colt they don't belong in the Colts section.  Except when people want to start a thread to revisit Polian and the 2009 season. 

 

Something that frankly has been talked about on both sides to death.  How many times do people need to do it?  Honestly you could take the number of posts about it and threads about it here since 2009 and publish a book longer than War and Peace.  Again, if people want to do it by all means have it but it's still a re-tread of many other threads done a million times before and don't try to tell me "it's different" when people have spent years saying this topic doesn't belong in this part of the forum solely based on "he's no longer a Colt" whenever other ex-Colts names get brought up.  They haven't spent years saying "This doesn't impact Colts fans anymore" it's always been "he's no longer a Colt". 

 

I am not saying the thread has to be moved frankly I think we should be able to talk about ex-Colts in this part of the forum because Colts fans like to hear what guys are up too.  However, I am not buying the case that this different because it's not to say it is is nothing but pure bull malarkey.  Also again, if people truly feel the need to have this debate one more time fine so be it.  It's just going to be the same points made on both side a million times before. 

[Superman]

No it's not. I've been around here WAY too long to believe that so don't try to sell me that.

 

I was here when Dungy left and anytime Dungy's name was brought up right after he left people would scream "He's not a Colt anymore this doesn't belong in the Colt's section."  Then the thread would get moved to NFL General.  They didn't argue this doesn't impact Colts fans anymore.  They argued he isn't a Colt anymore.  Bill Polian is no longer a Colt.  So if the Forum policy that has been established dating all the way back to Tony Dungy is that you can't talk about people who are no longer Colts in the Colts section because they are no longer a Colt then no it's not different because Polian is no longer a Colt. 

 

Samething with Peyton Manning.  If his name is brought up you are going to see people say "he's no longer a Colt".  Threads that were started just to say hey Dallas Clark signed with another team or hey Addai signed with the Pats were moved because they were no longer a Colt even though Colts fans would say hey I like to hear what happened with Ex-Colts.  Again, there is a clear policy that has been established that if someone is no longer a Colt they don't belong in the Colts section.  Except when people want to start a thread to revisit Polian and the 2009 season. 

 

Something that frankly has been talked about on both sides to death.  How many times do people need to do it?  Honestly you could take the number of posts about it and threads about it here since 2009 and publish a book longer than War and Peace.  Again, if people want to do it by all means have it but it's still a re-tread of many other threads done a million times before and don't try to tell me "it's different" when people have spent years saying this topic doesn't belong in this part of the forum solely based on "he's no longer a Colt" whenever other ex-Colts names get brought up.  They haven't spent years saying "This doesn't impact Colts fans anymore" it's always been "he's no longer a Colt". 

 

I am not saying the thread has to be moved frankly I think we should be able to talk about ex-Colts in this part of the forum because Colts fans like to hear what guys are up too.  However, I am not buying the case that this different because it's not to say it is is nothing but pure bull malarkey.  Also again, if people truly feel the need to have this debate one more time fine so be it.  It's just going to be the same points made on both side a million times before. 

 

Okay then.

 

It's different to me. Your umbrage doesn't really change that.

[Buck Showalter]

I would not call it a hate fire, it is just calling him out for blatant issues of integrity.

Yeah, didn't cue the sarcastic or half joking tone in that post...

Knew someone would call that out...

Anyways, Bill is hurting his integrity that much is true, sometimes he should just not talk so much, but I guess thats what he is being paid to do now so whatever...

[LockeDown]

Polian doesn't like to look bad in public.    

[John Waylon]

I am LEGITIMATELY in shock. 

 

I mean, seriously?

 

I never, ever thought I'd hear myself say this, but someone call up brad wells and have him dig up his transcript of the bill polian show the Monday after pulling the starters in 2009. 

 

The more polian speaks these days, the more respect I lose for him. His ability to evaluate talent was great.

 

Beyond that, the man is a walking mess.

[John Waylon]

Think he is referring to Polian claiming he would have drafted Marvin in Carolina if he had the chance....when in fact he passed him over for Tim Biacaputuppaaaaii

Polian is gonna mail you a ricin coated letter for this.

[Tark The Shark]

Polian is definitely trolling.

 

7/10. Good job Polian.

[RomanianColtsFan]

Polian didn't say he doesn't believe in resting the starters, so I don't know how the author of this thread came up with the title. PFT did the same thing, they took their conclusion (or rather deduction) from Polian's interview and made it into a title for their article. This is cheap in my opinion.

 

Polian said, quote "“You’ve got to try and win every game” There is a difference. This simply means that he believes a team got to win every game regardless of who plays, starters or bench players. Ex. If Painter was any good Colts could have held the lead in the Jets game in 2009.

[Jason_]

There are only two possible answers for this.

 

1. Bill has lost his mind.

2. It was Jim Irsay's decision to rest the starters.

 

I do not want it to be either, because I like Bill. On the other hand, if Irsay called these shots then we may see it again someday. Either way it is not good.

 

 

Why is there no option 3?  

 

3. It was Caldwell's idea, seeing as how he was the HC and the one responsible for scheming, strategy and GAME-PLANNING.  He's a disciple of Tony Dungy, who has said many times that he prefers to rest starters. 

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20081224/SPORTS15/812240382/Resting-starters-right-thing-do

 

"The only thing that will make (fans) feel like it's the right way to go is if we win the Super Bowl,'' Dungy said Tuesday. "We know that going in. Whatever you do, if you win, it's the right thing and you were smart. And if you lose, you did the wrong thing and you weren't very smart. So we're going to do what we think is best. We thought (resting the starters) was best (in 2005 and 2007) and we still think it's best now, and hopefully we win and look smart at the end.''

 

People like to call Polian's schemes stupid, but those were Dungy's schemes, not Polian's.  Neither Buffalo nor Carolina played a tampa 2 defense during Polian's tenures with those teams.  Indy did because that was the scheme that Dungy and Monte Kiffin came up with.  Therefore Polian simply brought in players that would work with Dungy's scheme.  

 

People like to blame Polian for resting the starters, but what players play and how much they play is overwhelmingly up to the coaching staff, not the general manager.  

 

I was as ready as anybody for Polian to be replaced and I was ecstatic when he was.  However my reasons for wanting him gone were the contracts he made, some very questionable draft choices and the fact that he was a horrible scout of offensive linemen, which he has since admitted to.  I think some people hold Dungy to such high regard that they can't put any of the blame on him, and Caldwell was obviously just a puppet without a mind of his own even though he had pretty much the exact same demeanor, both on and off the field, as Dungy and he "grew up" in the NFL under the tutelage of Dungy.  

[GoColts8818]

Polian didn't say he doesn't believe in resting the starters, so I don't know how the author of this thread came up with the title. PFT did the same thing, they took their conclusion (or rather deduction) from Polian's interview and made it into a title for their article. This is cheap in my opinion.

 

Polian said, quote "“You’ve got to try and win every game” There is a difference. This simply means that he believes a team got to win every game regardless of who plays, starters or bench players. Ex. If Painter was any good Colts could have held the lead in the Jets game in 2009.

This is true.  If you listen to Polian talks he has ALWAYS said that they wanted to win the last two games in 2009.  I know people disagree about that but again it goes back to people kinda hearing what they want to hear.  I know many would agree based on pulling the starters that they didn't try to win those games and frankly I think the vast majority of people would agree with that.  However, it's important to remember Polian might not agree with that so to him they did try to win every game.  I can completely see how fans are going to look at that and say it's crap but Polian is still going to have his opinion on it and as we have seen it's not uncommon for NFL front office people have different opinions than others. 

[Superman]

Polian didn't say he doesn't believe in resting the starters, so I don't know how the author of this thread came up with the title. PFT did the same thing, they took their conclusion (or rather deduction) from Polian's interview and made it into a title for their article. This is cheap in my opinion.

 

Polian said, quote "“You’ve got to try and win every game” There is a difference. This simply means that he believes a team got to win every game regardless of who plays, starters or bench players. Ex. If Painter was any good Colts could have held the lead in the Jets game in 2009.

 

You know, having gone back and read the comments and tried to put them in context, I think you're right. I haven't listened to the interview, but it seems like Polian's comments are being taken out of context by Mike Chappell, who is being picked up by Florio.

 

Polian appears to have been talking about NBA teams sitting healthy players because they want to lose and get a more favorable matchup in the first round of the playoffs. Purposely losing to manipulate playoff seeding. That's NOT the same as what the Colts would do once their seeding was already determined. It's kind of the opposite.

 

Then he said this:

 

... it’s really a disservice to the fans, I think, to be in a situation where unless you are absolutely sure that you’d run the risk of injury by playing a player, that you sit him out.

 

 

 

That actually jives with what the Colts would do in sitting players. They didn't want to risk injury when seeding wasn't at stake, so they would sit players.

 

His comments are being taken out of context, then twisted, by media members who are quite public in their dislike for him. And I fell for it. Should have read the Chappell article in the first place.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130417/SPORTS03/304170066/Changing-his-tune-Polian-says-You-ve-got-try-win-every-game-

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9181601

[AntonMcG]

what Marvin drafting debacle?

 

 

I think you meant the Ugoh drafting debacle??? Marvin Harrison was not drafted by Polian

 

No, he claimed several times that Harrison's pro day was the best workout he had ever seen from a receiver, and only that because Carolina were picking so late in the draft, he would have definitely picked Marvin, but he was off the board.

 

Carolina picked at #8 in 1996, the Colts grabbed Harrison at #19.

 

One of many incredible lies by Polian that he astonishingly believed he wouldn't get called out for.

[GoColts8818]

You know, having gone back and read the comments and tried to put them in context, I think you're right. I haven't listened to the interview, but it seems like Polian's comments are being taken out of context by Mike Chappell, who is being picked up by Florio.

 

Polian appears to have been talking about NBA teams sitting healthy players because they want to lose and get a more favorable matchup in the first round of the playoffs. Purposely losing to manipulate playoff seeding. That's NOT the same as what the Colts would do once their seeding was already determined. It's kind of the opposite.

 

Then he said this:

 

 

That actually jives with what the Colts would do in sitting players. They didn't want to risk injury when seeding wasn't at stake, so they would sit players.

 

His comments are being taken out of context, then twisted, by media members who are quite public in their dislike for him. And I fell for it. Should have read the Chappell article in the first place.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130417/SPORTS03/304170066/Changing-his-tune-Polian-says-You-ve-got-try-win-every-game-

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9181601

Yep I think you two hit the nails on the head.

[AntonMcG]

Why is there no option 3?  

 

3. It was Caldwell's idea, seeing as how he was the HC and the one responsible for scheming, strategy and GAME-PLANNING.  He's a disciple of Tony Dungy, who has said many times that he prefers to rest starters. 

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20081224/SPORTS15/812240382/Resting-starters-right-thing-do

 

 

 

 

People like to call Polian's schemes stupid, but those were Dungy's schemes, not Polian's.  Neither Buffalo nor Carolina played a tampa 2 defense during Polian's tenures with those teams.  Indy did because that was the scheme that Dungy and Monte Kiffin came up with.  Therefore Polian simply brought in players that would work with Dungy's scheme.  

 

People like to blame Polian for resting the starters, but what players play and how much they play is overwhelmingly up to the coaching staff, not the general manager.  

 

I was as ready as anybody for Polian to be replaced and I was ecstatic when he was.  However my reasons for wanting him gone were the contracts he made, some very questionable draft choices and the fact that he was a horrible scout of offensive linemen, which he has since admitted to.  I think some people hold Dungy to such high regard that they can't put any of the blame on him, and Caldwell was obviously just a puppet without a mind of his own even though he had pretty much the exact same demeanor, both on and off the field, as Dungy and he "grew up" in the NFL under the tutelage of Dungy.  

 

He was in charge of the organization not Dungy or Caldwell, and when he makes comments like that after it clearly happened on his watch... well then he should be called out... and if he gives a legitimate reason like he left it up to the coaches then fine... but a good journalist most certainly would have brought it up.

 

I would not feel as strongly if this was a one off, but it clearly is not, he does this kind of thing regularly and it really makes me wonder if he was the leader everyone thought he was. We have never been in the back end of the Colts organization so we may never know. It might sound like a harsh and over-the-top critique but he does himself no favors with this stuff.

[smittywerb]

Yeah, and people cried and whined when Irsay fired this guy.  Good riddance!

[Larry Horseman]

 

His comments are being taken out of context, then twisted, by media members who are quite public in their dislike for him. And I fell for it. Should have read the Chappell article in the first place.

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20130417/SPORTS03/304170066/Changing-his-tune-Polian-says-You-ve-got-try-win-every-game-

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/play?id=9181601

 

I see what you are saying, but I heard it live, and I really don't think because of his history of resting players, he has the right to say what he said. Almost no one at the end of the NFL or NBA season is "healthy," so I don't think that is a proper way of couching it/justifying it. I don't see how he can draw a distinction between tanking and resting players...if a team is not playing its best players, they are not technically trying to win. Call it what you want, but the method and outcome are the same.

[BlueShoe]

Why is there no option 3?  

 

3. It was Caldwell's idea, seeing as how he was the HC and the one responsible for scheming, strategy and GAME-PLANNING.  He's a disciple of Tony Dungy, who has said many times that he prefers to rest starters. 

 

http://www.indystar.com/article/20081224/SPORTS15/812240382/Resting-starters-right-thing-do

 

 

 

 

People like to call Polian's schemes stupid, but those were Dungy's schemes, not Polian's.  Neither Buffalo nor Carolina played a tampa 2 defense during Polian's tenures with those teams.  Indy did because that was the scheme that Dungy and Monte Kiffin came up with.  Therefore Polian simply brought in players that would work with Dungy's scheme.  

 

People like to blame Polian for resting the starters, but what players play and how much they play is overwhelmingly up to the coaching staff, not the general manager.  

 

I was as ready as anybody for Polian to be replaced and I was ecstatic when he was.  However my reasons for wanting him gone were the contracts he made, some very questionable draft choices and the fact that he was a horrible scout of offensive linemen, which he has since admitted to.  I think some people hold Dungy to such high regard that they can't put any of the blame on him, and Caldwell was obviously just a puppet without a mind of his own even though he had pretty much the exact same demeanor, both on and off the field, as Dungy and he "grew up" in the NFL under the tutelage of Dungy.  

 

You really believe Caldwell had a say in anything? LOL

[Superman]

I see what you are saying, but I heard it live, and I really don't think because of his history of resting players, he has the right to say what he said. Almost no one at the end of the NFL or NBA season is "healthy," so I don't think that is a proper way of couching it/justifying it. I don't see how he can draw a distinction between tanking and resting players...if a team is not playing its best players, they are not technically trying to win. Call it what you want, but the method and outcome are the same.

 

This is going to seem very semantical, but there's a difference between "not trying to win" and "trying to lose." It could be argued that the Hawks were trying to lose yesterday. I don't think you could say that for the Colts in 2009.

 

And the positions and decision-making process for the two different situations couldn't be further apart. The Colts had seeding locked up. As much as fans wanted them to go for the perfect season, Polian and Co. considered avoiding injury to be a higher priority. I hated it then, and I hate it now, but it's different. The Hawks didn't have seeding locked up, and they arguably wanted to lose in order to manipulate their playoff seeding.

 

It's a much different scenario.

 

I don't think Polian should have said what he said, because then this happens. I still think he was hypocritical in his comments, especially when he talked about it not being fair to the fans.

 

On the other hand . . . at the prices that a professional sport charge these days, at the price that’s charged for luxury boxes and concessions and parking and all of that, it’s really a disservice to the fans, I think.

 

I know some Colts fans who bought tickets to that game in 2009 for friends, and felt foolish for doing so because of what happened. Then there was Polian's dismissive attitude toward the fan response after the game. It's hard for fans to hear him talking about how it's not fair to not play to win, when he ordered the team to pull the starters in a game with historical implications. So yeah, he shouldn't ever have anything to say about how "you've got to try and win every game." Very hypocritical of him to bring the fans up, I think.

 

He shouldn't have said what he said, but his words are being twisted and taken out of context.

[Black-Vell]

This is weird thread - i guess there are people that place more blame for not winning on someone up in the press box than out on the field? OK - well that makes this thread A) not realistic & B) a waste of time.

 

If you are "mad at" and/or "need someone to blame" because we didnt win a Super Bowl - then start with the man that received most of the credit when we won - Peyton Manning.

 

Ohhhh - you cant do that huh. Why not?

 

Peyton would have been MVP last year if it wasnt for another weak playoff performance. Peyton is a waaay better QB than Tom Brady - even Brady will tell you that. But Peyton always gets rated under Tom because while Tom puts on his Superman Cape in the playoffs - Peyton turns into Clark Kent.

 

If WE as a team didnt come back from 18 points down against NE - would you blame that season on B Polian too?

 

I apologize for even responding to this thread. Im a realistic fan that understands losing is an option. I just like to see my team in a position to compete. I mean you cant win if you're not there.

 

The anti-Polian vibe just confuses me beecause if we would have won the Super Bowl the year we rested players - are you telling me you would have still had an issue resting players?  No - you would have called him & whoever a genius. Stop acting like B Polian violated some moral standard you cant forgive him for & call it what it is - a scape goat.

[Jason_]

You really believe Caldwell had a say in anything? LOL

 

yes, I do.  I don't believe he was just a closed-mouth puppet like many people claim.  He was the head coach, and he was essentially a clone of Dungy.  I don't buy that Polian much, if any, say in in-game decisions. 

[Larry Horseman]

This is going to seem very semantical, but there's a difference between "not trying to win" and "trying to lose." It could be argued that the Hawks were trying to lose yesterday. I don't think you could say that for the Colts in 2009.

 

And the positions and decision-making process for the two different situations couldn't be further apart. The Colts had seeding locked up. As much as fans wanted them to go for the perfect season, Polian and Co. considered avoiding injury to be a higher priority. I hated it then, and I hate it now, but it's different. The Hawks didn't have seeding locked up, and they arguably wanted to lose in order to manipulate their playoff seeding.

 

It's a much different scenario.

 

I don't think Polian should have said what he said, because then this happens. I still think he was hypocritical in his comments, especially when he talked about it not being fair to the fans.

 

 

Yes on the fan part for sure. It is a semantic issue, but to me, either way you slice it, resting is resting. Linguistically, resting can be justified however one wants. The point is if you are playing your second stringers, you are not giving your best effort to win. Balitmore did not have playoff seading locked up and rested their starters against the Bengals this year. Some argued it was because they wanted to face the Colts in the 4/5 match-up. So yes, it does happen in the NFL.

 

Edit: Also, for the record, I'm not a Polian hater, but if he is going to say such things he needs to openly discuss his role in the Colts resting starters.

[BlueShoe]

yes, I do.  I don't believe he was just a closed-mouth puppet like many people claim.  He was the head coach, and he was essentially a clone of Dungy.  I don't buy that Polian much, if any, say in in-game decisions. 

 

Well I disagree. It was either Polian or Irsay making that decision. Not a rookie head coach.

[Jason_]

He was in charge of the organization not Dungy or Caldwell, and when he makes comments like that after it clearly happened on his watch... well then he should be called out... and if he gives a legitimate reason like he left it up to the coaches then fine... but a good journalist most certainly would have brought it up.

 

I would not feel as strongly if this was a one off, but it clearly is not, he does this kind of thing regularly and it really makes me wonder if he was the leader everyone thought he was. We have never been in the back end of the Colts organization so we may never know. It might sound like a harsh and over-the-top critique but he does himself no favors with this stuff.

 

Yeah he was in charge of the organization, but there's no direct evidence imo to suggest that he had anything to do with in-game decisions.  he was in charge of players, personnel and front office staffing but he was not in charge of game-planning, scheming or anything like that, at least to my understanding.  Sure it happened on his watch, but it was also on Dungy's, and then Caldwell's watch and Dungy has said numerous times that resting the starters in meaningless games is his preference, and Caldwell is essentially a clone of dungy so I have no reason to think that Caldwell wouldn't have the same mindset.  

 

I honestly don't remember this far back but perhaps someone does or can find information about buffalo and Carolina when Polian was there?  did those teams rest the starters during meaningless games?  if there is a track record dating back to Carolina and Buffalo then there's definitely a case to be made that it was Polian's directive, but with the information I have now I personally see this more as a Dungy -> Caldwell decision.

[Black-Vell]

You really believe Caldwell had a say in anything? LOL

 

Yes Caldwell - THE HEAD COACH - had a say in EVERYTHING that was going on.  

 

Whats going on in this thread? Are these actual football fans speaking?

[Superman]

Yes on the fan part for sure. It is a semantic issue, but to me, either way you slice it, resting is resting. Linguistically resting can be justified however one wants. The point is if you are playing your second stringers, you are not giving your best effort to win. Balitmore did not have playoff seading locked up and rested their starters against the Bengals this year. Some argued it was because they wanted to face the Colts in the 4/5 match-up. So yes, it does happen in the NFL.

 

That's still different from actively trying to lose by sitting players that you would otherwise play.

 

As for Baltimore, maybe it does happen in the NFL. I won't speak to that. I'm not even comfortable criticizing an NBA team for sitting their starters in this situation. Like I said, Polian shouldn't have said anything about it. I'm not defending his point.

 

But it is a world of difference. Polian's teams made a habit of sitting players at the end of the season, but only once seeding was completely locked up. They never tried to lose in order to get a more favorable matchup.

[Smonroe]

This is weird thread - i guess there are people that place more blame for not winning on someone up in the press box than out on the field? OK - well that makes this thread A) not realistic & B) a waste of time.

 

If you are "mad at" and/or "need someone to blame" because we didnt win a Super Bowl - then start with the man that received most of the credit when we won - Peyton Manning.

 

Ohhhh - you cant do that huh. Why not?

 

Peyton would have been MVP last year if it wasnt for another weak playoff performance. Peyton is a waaay better QB than Tom Brady - even Brady will tell you that. But Peyton always gets rated under Tom because while Tom puts on his Superman Cape in the playoffs - Peyton turns into Clark Kent.

 

If WE as a team didnt come back from 18 points down against NE - would you blame that season on B Polian too?

 

I apologize for even responding to this thread. Im a realistic fan that understands losing is an option. I just like to see my team in a position to compete. I mean you cant win if you're not there.

 

The anti-Polian vibe just confuses me beecause if we would have won the Super Bowl the year we rested players - are you telling me you would have still had an issue resting players?  No - you would have called him & whoever a genius. Stop acting like B Polian violated some moral standard you cant forgive him for & call it what it is - a scape goat.

 

Since I started the thread I'll respond to this.  If you read my opening post, take it exactly as I wrote it.  It's Colts related because Polian worked for the Colts.  It points out that he doesn't support resting players in the NFL.  The Colts rested players.  Did you see anything in it that demonizes him?

 

These are facts.  You are inferring a lot of different points that weren't present in that post.  You may have gotten those from various responses, but the point of the forum is to discuss Colts football.

 

Personally, I've always been a Polian apologist, if you will.  I don't care that he has an abrasive personality or how he treated the media.  

 

Again, you have the right to your opinion, and I welcome it.  But please don't assume anything more than I wrote.  I never laid blame, or looked for a scape goat.  I merely presented the facts.

[BlueShoe]

Yes Caldwell - THE HEAD COACH - had a say in EVERYTHING that was going on.  

 

Whats going on in this thread? Are these actual football fans speaking?

 

Maybe you're one of the majority on this board who believed Polian and Caldwell would not be fired if we only won a few games in 2011. Sounds about right to me.

[Jason_]

Well I disagree. It was either Polian or Irsay making that decision. Not a rookie head coach.

 

so did Polian and/or Irsay do all of the other scheming and game-planning too?  Caldwell wasn't exactly a total rookie head coach.  they'd announced Caldwell would be Dungy's succesor well over a year prior to hiim taking over so he was being "trained" by Dungy during that time about game management, game-planning etc etc.  

[Superman]

Yeah he was in charge of the organization, but there's no direct evidence imo to suggest that he had anything to do with in-game decisions.  he was in charge of players, personnel and front office staffing but he was not in charge of game-planning, scheming or anything like that, at least to my understanding.  Sure it happened on his watch, but it was also on Dungy's, and then Caldwell's watch and Dungy has said numerous times that resting the starters in meaningless games is his preference, and Caldwell is essentially a clone of dungy so I have no reason to think that Caldwell wouldn't have the same mindset.  

 

I honestly don't remember this far back but perhaps someone does or can find information about buffalo and Carolina when Polian was there?  did those teams rest the starters during meaningless games?  if there is a track record dating back to Carolina and Buffalo then there's definitely a case to be made that it was Polian's directive, but with the information I have now I personally see this more as a Dungy -> Caldwell decision.

 

Polian advocated, on several occasions, the practice of resting starters at the end of the season, so long as seeding was locked up. He defended it very aggressively as well. I don't think there should be any question whether this was his strategy or not.

[Dustin]

Who cares? We lost the Super Bowl.

[Jason_]

Maybe you're one of the majority on this board who believed Polian and Caldwell would not be fired if we only won a few games in 2011. Sounds about right to me.

 

Caldwell was almost still brought back.  If Spagnuolo had agreed to be the new DC then Caldwell would still be here.

[Jules]

The 2009 thing doesn't really bother me much as time goes on....as time goes on I don't feel it was our year anyway as strange as it sounds to say this on a Colts forum as a Colts fan. I think New Orleans would have beaten us anyway regardless; better HC, a QB who was just as good as Manning in 2009, more balance on offense, a tougher road to the SB, the win for the city story the Saints used to fuel themselves........

 

I don't think it was meant to be.

 

 

JMO

[Smonroe]

That's still different from actively trying to lose by sitting players that you would otherwise play.

 

As for Baltimore, maybe it does happen in the NFL. I won't speak to that. I'm not even comfortable criticizing an NBA team for sitting their starters in this situation. Like I said, Polian shouldn't have said anything about it. I'm not defending his point.

 

But it is a world of difference. Polian's teams made a habit of sitting players at the end of the season, but only once seeding was completely locked up. They never tried to lose in order to get a more favorable matchup.

 

This is true.  I won't get into the discussion of who made the decisions to rest players.  It's speculation.

 

But one thing I always hated when they rested players was when they said "We want to win".  They may WANT to win, but they weren't doing the things they needed to do to win.  No one can doubt that.

[BlueShoe]

so did Polian and/or Irsay do all of the other scheming and game-planning too?  Caldwell wasn't exactly a total rookie head coach.  they'd announced Caldwell would be Dungy's succesor well over a year prior to hiim taking over so he was being "trained" by Dungy during that time about game management, game-planning etc etc.  

 

Tell us something we don't know about Caldwell. He was a puppet head and horrible game manager. There is no way Caldwell was left to make that decision on his own. I would be surprised if he had any real input on the decision.

[Superman]

This is true.  I won't get into the discussion of who made the decisions to rest players.  It's speculation.

 

But one thing I always hated when they rested players was when they said "We want to win".  They may WANT to win, but they weren't doing the things they needed to do to win.  No one can doubt that.

 

Because there's wanting to win, and then there's needing to win.

 

There's definitely irony in Polian's comments, but they are also definitely being taken out of context.

[GoColts8818]

This is going to seem very semantical, but there's a difference between "not trying to win" and "trying to lose." It could be argued that the Hawks were trying to lose yesterday. I don't think you could say that for the Colts in 2009.

 

And the positions and decision-making process for the two different situations couldn't be further apart. The Colts had seeding locked up. As much as fans wanted them to go for the perfect season, Polian and Co. considered avoiding injury to be a higher priority. I hated it then, and I hate it now, but it's different. The Hawks didn't have seeding locked up, and they arguably wanted to lose in order to manipulate their playoff seeding.

 

It's a much different scenario.

 

I don't think Polian should have said what he said, because then this happens. I still think he was hypocritical in his comments, especially when he talked about it not being fair to the fans.

 

 

I know some Colts fans who bought tickets to that game in 2009 for friends, and felt foolish for doing so because of what happened. Then there was Polian's dismissive attitude toward the fan response after the game. It's hard for fans to hear him talking about how it's not fair to not play to win, when he ordered the team to pull the starters in a game with historical implications. So yeah, he shouldn't ever have anything to say about how "you've got to try and win every game." Very hypocritical of him to bring the fans up, I think.

 

He shouldn't have said what he said, but his words are being twisted and taken out of context.

In other words people are trying to use this to get back to 2009 and drag that old horse back up.  That's why I am saying it's just played out.  That goes beyond the people on this forum too.  Clearly they aren't the only ones or even the main ones who twisted Polian's words and are taking them out of context. 

 

I agree what Polian said this morning was foolish with that said if you honestly listen to what he was saying he was saying what you said at the start.  The 2009 pulled their starters but the Colts never went out there with the goal of losing the game to avoid playing another team in the playoffs.  The Colts ALWAYS wanted to have the highest seed they could get in the playoffs regardless of who it meant they would play.  What the Hawks were doing seemed to be trying to lose to avoid or get a specific match up in the playoffs. 

[GoColts8818]

The 2009 thing doesn't really bother me much as time goes on....as time goes on I don't feel it was our year anyway as strange as it sounds to say this on a Colts forum as a Colts fan. I think New Orleans would have beaten us anyway regardless; better HC, a QB who was just as good as Manning in 2009, more balance on offense, a tougher road to the SB, the win for the city story the Saints used to fuel themselves........

 

I don't think it was meant to be.

 

 

JMO

Again people just like to over look that little fact that we still LOST the Super Bowl that year rendering what happened in Week 16 moot in terms of the perfect season.  It doesn't mean it wasn't handled poorly from a PR stand point and it doesn't mean that it wasn't perhaps the peak of the Polian arrogance with the way he handled it the next night.  With that said, since we lost the Super Bowl it means what happened during week 16 had no impact on the end result of the perfect season because it was going to go down with the Super Bowl. 

[Smonroe]

Because there's wanting to win, and then there's needing to win.

 

There's definitely irony in Polian's comments, but they are also definitely being taken out of context.

 

I'm not strictly talking about Polian in this case.  I'm talking about all the times we rested players and they said "We want to win."  Sometimes they'd even elaborate on the lie, like when we wrapped up the division and were going to play the Titans.  They said we don't want to lose to someone in our division.

 

We all know that was rhetoric, maybe to avoid fines from the NFL.  But still, if you WANT to win you do everything you can TO win.  That doesn't include resting most of your starters.  

 

I'm not complaining about resting the players, I'm commenting on the hypocrisy of the statements.