Colts have lost 3 big targets

[dw49]

Ouch. It's looking like five years, $34m, with $10m bonus. https://twitter.com/RavensInsider/status/311633241977270273

 

Still better than Smith at $9m/year, but that's more debatable. Also need to see structure and guaranteed money.

 

 

 

To start the debate , you still have to see what Smith ends up getting. The money tends to dry up after the first "flurry" of signings. Could be a bit of a difference between wanting 9 mill and getting it. Not trying to break your groin , just having fun with you cause I like you.

[wig]

Yes, Vasquez as in he's the only one we truly "lost". Kruger wanted too much (notice the $40 million) & Levitre doesn't fit a man scheme as he does zone blocking. So Vasquez was the only serious guy we could've brought in.

And this is because you say so? How did we 'lose' Vasquez if he went for a very reasonable price and the staff didn't want him? How does Levitre not fit what they wanted to do if the guard we signed is the same size and comes from zone system?

You have zero clue who the coaches wanted, and saying that we 'lost' anyone has zero weight behind it. In your fantasy land you lost Vasquez. I never saw anything serious about the staff talking to him.

[Superman]

To start the debate , you still have to see what Smith ends up getting. The money tends to dry up after the first "flurry" of signings. Could be a bit of a difference between wanting 9 mill and getting it. Not trying to break your groin , just having fun with you cause I like you.

 

You're very right. I'm working under a set of assumptions right now, and those assumptions might be totally wrong.

[Superman]

I don't think its that bad considering Vasquez got $23.5 mil/4 years - $13 million guaranteed (and most here thought that was a great deal) ... and one would assume a top rated T would command more than a guard.

 

I've stopped short of calling it a bad deal. I think it's more sticker shock at this point. I didn't think it would clock in at nearly $7m per. I definitely like the addition.

[dw49]

I've stopped short of calling it a bad deal. I think it's more sticker shock at this point. I didn't think it would clock in at nearly $7m per. I definitely like the addition.

 

 

I think bottom line is that this is not a "buyers market" as some of the talking heads asserted. Look at the contracts . Lb's getting 5-7 mill. DL Bryant .. 5 years 34 mill. Not too many bargains out there.

 

Here's one I love... a slow plodding white guy that I thought was a vet min. guy...

 

 

Eagles agreed to terms with TE/FB James Casey, formerly of the Texans, to a three-year, $14.5 million contract.

Casey, 28, posted career highs in catches (34), yards (330), and touchdowns (3) last season despite being used incorrectly by the Texans' coaching staff. Casey was often asked to play fullback, but he is a natural tight end and terrific pass catcher at 6-foot-3 and 243 pounds. While we don't necessarily anticipate big fantasy stats, Casey will give Michael Vick an intriguing weapon down the seam and underneath in Chip Kelly's four-wide spread attack.

 

 

I think when you get involved in day 1 and 2 , you had better forget getting bargains.

[Superman]

I think bottom line is that this is not a "buyers market" as some of the talking heads asserted. Look at the contracts . Lb's getting 5-7 mill. DL Bryant .. 5 years 34 mill. Not too many bargains out there.

 

Here's one I love... a slow plodding white guy that a thought was a vet min. guy...

 

 

Eagles agreed to terms with TE/FB James Casey, formerly of the Texans, to a three-year, $14.5 million contract.

Casey, 28, posted career highs in catches (34), yards (330), and touchdowns (3) last season despite being used incorrectly by the Texans' coaching staff. Casey was often asked to play fullback, but he is a natural tight end and terrific pass catcher at 6-foot-3 and 243 pounds. While we don't necessarily anticipate big fantasy stats, Casey will give Michael Vick an intriguing weapon down the seam and underneath in Chip Kelly's four-wide spread attack.

 

 

I think when you get involved in day 1 and 2 , you had better forget getting bargains.

 

Oh boy. I ... I don't understand.

[Malakai432]

Oh boy. I ... I don't understand.

Team Nightmare on Elm Street at it again...

[Superman]

Team Nightmare on Elm Street at it again...

 

Even if you look at Casey as a full time tight end, how does he have the resume to support being paid like a top level guy? He got more per year than Delanie Walker. Just a weird, weird signing, I think.

[Tark The Shark]

I don't see why people are so upset.

 

Grigson said it himself that he wouldn't go after name guys but guys that could contribute to the team.

 

Just because it isn't players we all expected, doesn't mean these guys will suck.

 

I think everything is going according to plan.

[dw49]

I don't see why people are so upset.

 

Grigson said it himself that he wouldn't go after name guys but guys that could contribute to the team.

 

Just because it isn't players we all expected, doesn't mean these guys will suck.

 

I think everything is going according to plan.

 

 

I don't see why people are so upset.

 

Grigson said it himself that he wouldn't go after name guys but guys that could contribute to the team.

 

Just because it isn't players we all expected, doesn't mean these guys will suck.

 

I think everything is going according to plan.

 

 

 

No doubt you are correct. Everyone is upset that we didn't sign guys like Vasquez. Instead we sign Dave Thomas , who is a very solid guard. We have the Offensive Co-ordinator plus the personnel guy (Ray) from SD . They must not have wanted him that badly or he woud be here. Plus SD has a terrible O Line and they barely made him an offer.  The RT we sign is a wall against the pass rush. This was IMO a very efficient way to shore up our line. One more solid guy and we should be set. The CB works and the two LB's have promise. As you say.. so far so good.

[dw49]

Oh boy. I ... I don't understand.

 

Besides I forgot to mention that the talking heads that reported this love the signing. So don't get upset about reading how our team wiffed.

 

BTW.. I watched this guy play as I had to play him a couple weeks in a fantasy football league. He was torture to watch as he couldn't get any seperation.

[Superman]

Besides I forgot to mention that the talking heads that reported this love the signing. So don't get upset about reading how our team wiffed.

 

BTW.. I watched this guy play as I had to play him a couple weeks in a fantasy football league. He was torture to watch as he couldn't get any seperation.

 

Must be a pretty deep league for you to put up with James Casey for two weeks.

[Freenyfan102]

Did they even try to negotiate with these players......??????????

[dw49]

Must be a pretty deep league for you to put up with James Casey for two weeks.

 

 

Yes it was a 14 team league and he had RB ( played some FB)  eligibility. 

[Superman]

Did they even try to negotiate with these players......??????????

 

I was reading an article a few weeks ago about the saga one agent went through when trying to get his client signed to a contract. I think it was Chris Canty with the Giants, who was recently released (and just signed with the Ravens today; good signing). The agent made a comment about one team calling and basically asking what the price of entry was, then declining. At that point, the agent was thinking they were going to have to go back to the original team and accept a lower level, one year deal. The tone gave me the impression that there's no used car lot tactics, no back and forth about value and cost and such, particularly with unrestricted free agents. Maybe you have that kind of negotiating and dialogue with your own guys, but not when you're trying to snag someone in the wild world of free agency.

 

So, to answer your question from someone who knows very little, no, they don't really negotiate with these guys. The players and their agents name their price, and then the market basically accepts that price or rejects it.

[Superman]

Yes it was a 14 team league and he had RB ( played some FB)  eligibility. 

 

Yeah I have a 20 team league. Someone like James Casey is rarely available, but he was on and off waivers all season.

[AntonMcG]

I was reading an article a few weeks ago about the saga one agent went through when trying to get his client signed to a contract. I think it was Chris Canty with the Giants, who was recently released (and just signed with the Ravens today; good signing). The agent made a comment about one team calling and basically asking what the price of entry was, then declining. At that point, the agent was thinking they were going to have to go back to the original team and accept a lower level, one year deal. The tone gave me the impression that there's no used car lot tactics, no back and forth about value and cost and such, particularly with unrestricted free agents. Maybe you have that kind of negotiating and dialogue with your own guys, but not when you're trying to snag someone in the wild world of free agency.

 

So, to answer your question from someone who knows very little, no, they don't really negotiate with these guys. The players and their agents name their price, and then the market basically accepts that price or rejects it.

I wouldn't imagine it's as straight laced as that. There must be circumstances where the player dictates and circumstances where the team dictates. Need, value, market congestion, cap room, number of interested parties etc. will all come into play, not to mention the other aspects outside money which will be important to the players.

Then of course you have all the different ways that a contract can be structured that can make/break deals.

[BOTT]

No doubt you are correct. Everyone is upset that we didn't sign guys like Vasquez. Instead we sign Dave Thomas , who is a very solid guard. We have the Offensive Co-ordinator plus the personnel guy (Ray) from SD . They must not have wanted him that badly or he woud be here. Plus SD has a terrible O Line and they barely made him an offer.  The RT we sign is a wall against the pass rush. This was IMO a very efficient way to shore up our line. One more solid guy and we should be set. The CB works and the two LB's have promise. As you say.. so far so good.

For some reason people have convinced themselves that Vasquez is elite....

[Hans Moleman]

 Instead we sign Dave Thomas , who is a very solid guard. 

 

The Dave Thomas that founded Wendy's would be an upgrade for us at guard, and he's been dead for years.

[JColts72]

I don't get the logic with FA money use, some players picked up could have ben drfated in late rounds, a OL whose knees may be shot, an injuredd CB risk, Walden (worst signing) and 2 benchwarmers. I'm sure there could have been beter no-names to get if penny pinching.

[ColtsBlueFL]

You forgot about Andre Smith... right ? However I'm reading that Cherlius , although not great at opening holes in the running game , is an exceptional pass blocker. 

 

And what is funny is I heard Bill Polian on Mike and Mike this morning say the exact opposite; cherilus was much better run blockedr than pass protector.  Looks like I'll have to look up info for myself.  Too many contradictions out there.

[ColtsBlueFL]

I think bottom line is that this is not a "buyers market" as some of the talking heads asserted. Look at the contracts . Lb's getting 5-7 mill. DL Bryant .. 5 years 34 mill. Not too many bargains out there.

 

Here's one I love... a slow plodding white guy that I thought was a vet min. guy...

 

 

Eagles agreed to terms with TE/FB James Casey, formerly of the Texans, to a three-year, $14.5 million contract.

Casey, 28, posted career highs in catches (34), yards (330), and touchdowns (3) last season despite being used incorrectly by the Texans' coaching staff. Casey was often asked to play fullback, but he is a natural tight end and terrific pass catcher at 6-foot-3 and 243 pounds. While we don't necessarily anticipate big fantasy stats, Casey will give Michael Vick an intriguing weapon down the seam and underneath in Chip Kelly's four-wide spread attack.

 

 

I think when you get involved in day 1 and 2 , you had better forget getting bargains.

 

Agree.  Agents have all of the leverage from here until the looming of draft day. If you want someone, you have to be ready to open up that suitcase full of 100's of million Irsay alluded to and dole out some.