PAGANO COST US THE GAME TOO CONSERVATIVE

[the cardinal]

But that's kind of irrelevant for late-game playcalling.

In point of fact if you have a lead of 17-16 with 1 minute left, you're probably more likely to win than if you have a lead of 31-30 with 1 minute left, given how the offenses have been performing that day.

ITA. I was only talking about the tendency to blame offensive playcalling vs. defense. Being held scoreless and stagnating at 14 points for nearly an entire 2nd half isn't going to win you many games. I don't care how good your defense is. That we were fortunate enough to be in a winning position at the end is great, but it didn't need to come down to that. The offensive stagnation during the 3rd and most of the 4th Q is where we lost the game. Just like against Vikings, we had a chance to get some separation on the scoreboard and couldn't capitalize.

And despite it all, Andrew still ended up having to throw +45 times.

[Superman]

Sorry, I don't agree. They played exactly as they should have, making the Jags use all their TOs. Personally, I would have liked to see a Luck rollout or bootleg on third down, although it worked out right.

Just a freak play at the end, against a bad CB.

Exactly. The objective was to NOT give up an 80 yard touchdown play on defense. You make them use their timeouts and then drive the length of the field. Our defense had tightened up and played pretty well on the previous possession, and with them needing 40 yards and having less than a minute with no timeouts, you have a good shot at winning.

The blame goes to one of our best defensive players -- Antoine Bethea, for playing too wide in a deep shell coverage. Not the coaching. Running three times in that situation is a sound strategy.

[Superman]

Will we ever have a dominate defense? It seems like no matter what we do our d sucks

The defense played well, with the exception of two plays. Sucks that one of them cost us the game, but that's a lot better than it has been the past two seasons.

[SLILLINGTON10]

i am the type that go for it in madden every forth down, but i thought pagano had it right (the whole series) and kicked the FG, our defense just doesn't understand a simple prevent defense. simply put you can not let that happen ever again. learn from it and move on.

[Superman]

The game should have never came to that in the first place! This is a pattern. We saw the SAME thing last week but was fortunate to pull out the win. I put this on Chuck because that is one thing Bruce likes to do is air it out with his qbs so I'm sure Chuck is letting it be known (says it all the time) that he wants to run the ball but you still need to score.

We threw the ball plenty in the second half -- including an interception, don't forget. The only possession that could be considered conservative was the final one. Don't be a prisoner of the moment.

[Elmo]

I thought we got beat by a freak catch, but that's just me.

[Andy]

Get mad at Arians, he's the OC and makes the calls.

I agree though, the conservativeness is the reason we they couldn't do anything in the 4th.

They should have done something on the 3rd down on the made FG.

[1959Colts]

The defense played well, with the exception of two plays. Sucks that one of them cost us the game, but that's a lot better than it has been the past two seasons.

The defense has played bad against two bad teams.

Green Bay next. Yikes.

[coltfaninnewyork]

The defense has played bad against two bad teams.

Green Bay next. Yikes.

You think rodgers is licking his chops?

[ALL BLUE]

WIth all the trouble we have running the ball up the middle, why not more ptch plays, screens things to get Donald where he is the strongest in open field.....but no lets keep running up the middle and getting nothing. OHH we have the lead 14-3 yea thats enough of a lead to LAY DOWN and not play to the clock hits 0. This is awful.....i said it when AV made the field goal, 1 point lead means Jack S*** and boy was i right.

All day this was my thought.IMO Pagona is coaching like he still has the Baltimore defense that can shut down offenses and win a game.

[bluephantom87]

We threw the ball plenty in the second half -- including an interception, don't forget. The only possession that could be considered conservative was the final one. Don't be a prisoner of the moment.

Not a prisoner of the moment. I watched the same game that the commentators said the Colts became conservative with the run game and took the ball out of Luck's hands. When you say we threw the ball plenty second half I don't mean because you had to like 3rd and long or cause you couldn't run the ball. Up 14-3 Luck is still your best option so keep the ball in his hands. Don't forget he's the same guy with the 2 td passes. I'd rather have D Brown in open space with a screen pass from Luck than trying to run into the brick wall known as the middle.

[neverstop1863]

I understand that we have a position called " Offensive Cord" and Pagano is in fact not the OC but the head coach, but after a couple games with this stale offensive gameplan as HC do you not step in a say "Hey lets play to our strength".....Yes im not a pro, Yes im sitting at my computer desk talking smack, but COME ON! 14-3 lead in our NFL today is nothing......in this league today you need to score and score until its over. I know I know im not in their shoes, ok i get it.....but me as a fan that spends a lot of money on this team, travels 8 hrs to see them every season and live by this team expect to see them have the best chance to win, and IMO they arent given that oppurtunity. Yea im a little bit blinded by a lose and yea maybe im ranting. But i just dont see our players being used where they are the strongest.

[ALL BLUE]

Not a prisoner of the moment. I watched the same game that the commentators said the Colts became conservative with the run game and took the ball out of Luck's hands. When you say we threw the ball plenty second half I don't mean because you had to like 3rd and long or cause you couldn't run the ball. Up 14-3 Luck is still your best option so keep the ball in his hands. Don't forget he's the same guy with the 2 td passes. I'd rather have D Brown in open space with a screen pass from Luck than trying to run into the brick wall known as the middle.

Agree here not sure why Ariens wont call more plays to try and get Donald in open space.

[Smitto]

For the guys here who are shouting to give luck the ball and let him throw he will have his chance come the Packers game... And see how many mistakes gets made.... This is not a passing team this team is a team trying to figure out who they are.

This was a perfectly called game but that INT by luck and that ridiculous td by the Jags is what cost the Colts the game. Not running the ball.

[pacolts56]

Giving up an 80 yard TD in one play didn't help.

I made this same comment last week. The attitude of Colt fans is an interesting study. In this instance, 95% of football fans out there would blame their defense. What do Colt fans blame? Play calling. Why is that? Because they have simply accepted the fact they have a pathetic defense. They're used to playing with no defense. They're used to Manning winning every single game for them.

Yep!

That... along with perennially putrid interior O-line play....is the unvarnished, bitter truth.

The "stench in the trench" continues.......

[ALL BLUE]

I know throwing the ball would've been more risky because of a pick or incompletions, I just feel like with the state of our defense being not very good still, playing aggressive and let Andrew throw the ball and try to run the clock out would've been worth it, rather than just saying alright we'll take the field goal and hand the ball back to you with a minute left. At the end of the day still no excuse for an 80 yard play on defense to lose the game

Would have liked to see a quick slant or screen on the 3rd down play,just a safe pass.

[cbear]

This.

Way too much hindsight going on in here.

Yep. You want them to burn their TO. That was the proper way to call that last series. We lost, so expect the hindsight second guessing and knee jerk reactions to continue. Fans are too emotional right now to see straight.

[BleedingBlue]

Was a good call to go conservative and and we executed fairly well. We made a lot of mistakes towards the end.

Theres a lot of positives I saw today. We just need to build on them.

[lollygagger8]

When we just ran it and set up the FG, I leaned over and told my girlfriend that it was going to come back and bite us!!!

Horrible horrible play calling. We should've went for the TD. If your leading rusher is your QB, why the heck would we keep trying to run it like we are going to get somewhere with it?

[hawkeyes]

The time Adam missed we had 5 straight bad things happen ...

Ran the ball out of bounce

Ran the ball out of bounce

Route ran one yard short of 1st down marker

Delay of game penalty

Missed FG

I figured at that point the game was over - I gotta think a lot of the Colts did too! Then when we came back to take the lead they all relaxed and BAM one play and we get beat!

[BIGugly]

Why were our safeties up so close to the line of scrimmage on the 80 yard TD we gave up? The only thing that can beat us is a TD...What was our DC Gregg Mausky thinking?

OC Bruce Arians gets a lead in the first half, then plays not to lose in the second half...doesn't work. The gripe on Arians at Pittsburgh was he did not call the game to the talent available. Doing the same thing here....

Luck had lots of time to throw today, and made some bad decisions. His Rook showed. Zone defense seem to confuse him. He'll learn, it think...

[GoColts8818]

Why were our safeties up so close to the line of scrimmage on the 80 yard TD we gave up? The only thing that can beat us is a TD...What was our DC Gregg Mausky thinking?

OC Bruce Arians gets a lead in the first half, then plays not to lose in the second half...doesn't work. The gripe on Arians at Pittsburgh was he did not call the game to the talent available. Doing the same thing here....

Luck had lots of time to throw today, and made some bad decisions. His Rook showed. Zone defense seem to confuse him. He'll learn, it think...

That's the ironic thing about this thread the play that truly cost us the game was a product of not being conservative. Also a field goal would have still beat us there which is why I think they choose to stay aggressive there. They didn't just want to let Jax go down the field and set up a game winning field goal for Scobee we've see that script too many times against the Colts. They got burned no question like I said before it's 20/20 hindsight that a lot of people are doing (not saying you are) it's the old if what you did didn't work you should have done the other thing that fans love to do.

[BIGugly]

That's the ironic thing about this thread the play that truly cost us the game was a product of not being conservative. Also a field goal would have still beat us there which is why I think they choose to stay aggressive there. They didn't just want to let Jax go down the field and set up a game winning field goal for Scobee we've see that script too many times against the Colts. They got burned no question like I said before it's 20/20 hindsight that a lot of people are doing (not saying you are) it's the old if what you did didn't work you should have done the other thing that fans love to do.

Wasn't it 3rd and nine from the 21? Don't let anyone behind you....

You are right, the conventional wisdom prolly saves the game...

[ballin colt]

I thought it was pretty conservative in the 2nd half. The defense still was the major issue.

I didnot see rhe whole field on their final td, it looked like we were ih standard defense should have had 6 backs and deep, you know they have to pass. I think the defenseive call is what cost us the game.Hope the replay highlites shows the [package we were in.

[Jay Roland]

if they would turn Luck loose and let him b aggressive the whole game i think we would be in better shape. but when you come out with the opp. Qb passing only 48 yards and yes MJD was running wild but still hadn't done a lot of damage we go conservative in our play calling. right now it seems this team doesn't have a killer instinct but if they allow Luck to be more aggressive we will do better. even being more aggressive we are going to be in for a roller coaster ride but i think we will be better off in the long run.

[GoColts8818]

Wasn't it 3rd and nine from the 21? Don't let anyone behind you....

You are right, the conventional wisdom prolly saves the game...

It was like first and 10 from their own 20 it happened as soon as they got the ball back if you are talking about the TD catch for the Jags.

[Ohio Colt]

Andrew Luck is a stud. These guys have been watching the game as long as I have. Turn him loose. Win or lose, live and die with him. He's ready.

I love Donald Brown but running him three times and kicking when a first down or touchdown wins you the ballgame is plain stupid. Andrew Luck is our money player. Take your chances with him.

It is the difference between being a winning team (which we would be right now if we had picked up one more first down) or a losing team.

Win aggressively, or lose aggressively, firing your best bullets. Just don't lose being passive and playing this type of football. It is awful, and it's demoralizing.

[GoColts8818]

Andrew Luck is a stud. These guys have been watching the game as long as I have. Turn him loose. Win or lose, live and die with him. He's ready.

I love Donald Brown but running him three times and kicking when a first down or touchdown wins you the ballgame is plain stupid. Andrew Luck is our money player. Take your chances with him.

It is the difference between being a winning team (which we would be right now if we had picked up one more first down) or a losing team.

Win aggressively, or lose aggressively, firing your best bullets. Just don't lose being passive and playing this type of football. It is awful, and it's demoralizing.

We did lose aggressively. The TD the Jags scored was a product of us being aggressive on defense.

[Coltsman1788]

We might just be seeing why Steelers fans rejoiced to see Arians pack his bags for Indy. Hope his conservative ways have more to do with the overall inexperience of the offense and that it is not the general trend that we can expect for the future.

[BIGugly]

It was like first and 10 from their own 20 it happened as soon as they got the ball back if you are talking about the TD catch for the Jags.

Yeah. he ran through us like .......

And when we were ready to make our last play with 2 seconds on the clock, there were 7, count 'em 7, defenders lined up along the goal line from one side to the other. 4 defenders covering the rest of the football field...Never saw it before, kinda neat looking. I'm talking 7 guys on the one yard line. Did they show that on TV?

[GoColts8818]

We might just be seeing why Steelers fans rejoiced to see Arians pack his bags for Indy. Hope his conservative ways have more to do with the overall inexperience of the offense and that it is not the general trend that we can expect for the future.

Guys it's not like the passing game was tearing it up in the second half either. I mean for starters Luck threw it 46 times today it's not like they didn't let Luck throw it around like last week. Of those 46 Luck only completed 22 of them and he completed something like 12 of those in the first half. He was only completed something like 10 passes in the second half and had an INT. I will agree with something though. We need to look at what we are doing in the third quarter on offense because it's not working. three points all year and something like three INTs is not going to cut it and those three points are more of a product of the Vikings self destructing than anything else.

[GoColts8818]

Yeah. he ran through us like .......

And when we were ready to make our last play with 2 seconds on the clock, there were 7, count 'em 7, defenders lined up along the goal line from one side to the other. 4 defenders covering the rest of the football field...Never saw it before, kinda neat looking. I'm talking 7 guys on the one yard line. Did they show that on TV?

yeah they did. I've seen it before in hail marry situations but most of the time it doesn't fit into the TV for the hail marry play. About the only thing you can do is throw it up and hope it takes a bounce like it did for the Vikings last week.

[colts8718]

And i thought CALDWELL was coservative coaches are hired to put there players in the best position to win not lose. Her we go again and did'nt we draft 2 TE or did PAGANO forget.Playing for FGoals come on PAGANO wake up

[TheMarine]

its one thing to play to win, its another to crush the trachea to win the game. I do feel like Arians is playing to win, but we're VERY used to Peyton putting the dagger in the back.

Arians is the PERFECT guy at this time to teach Luck how to be a QB in the NFL. Two-three years, that may change. But right now, Im letting it ride. We all SHOULD have expected 4-6 wins this year, any more than that is giving in to the justified hype of what our eyes are showing us. Pagano will get a better coaching staff next year, and the year after

[Coltsman1788]

We did lose aggressively. The TD the Jags scored was a product of us being aggressive on defense.

LOL Funny I thought it was a product of Sergio Brown being utterly clueless on a blown assignment.

[GoColts8818]

LOL Funny I thought it was a product of Sergio Brown being utterly clueless on a blown assignment.

That too but if we had been in prevent we would have someone back to cover up for him being utterly clueless and blowing his assignment. Oh well. I don't know if I really have a problem with the way things went today. Sometimes it works for you sometimes it doesn't and today it just didn't. Someone else said it better we just need to get better at executing.

[Coltsman1788]

That too but if we had been in prevent we would have someone back to cover up for him being utterly clueless and blowing his assignment. Oh well. I don't know if I really have a problem with the way things went today. Sometimes it works for you sometimes it doesn't and today it just didn't. Someone else said it better we just need to get better at executing.

To be honest, I am not that upset either that we lost the game on the blown coverage. It's more how we were in the position to be involved in such a close game to begin with after blowing the 11 point half time advantage. Young teams will go through growing pains and I guess learning how to finish teams off is a part of that.

[bluephantom87]

For the guys here who are shouting to give luck the ball and let him throw he will have his chance come the Packers game... And see how many mistakes gets made.... This is not a passing team this team is a team trying to figure out who they are.

This was a perfectly called game but that INT by luck and that ridiculous td by the Jags is what cost the Colts the game. Not running the ball.

And why is that? The Packers are a much better team than the previous 0-2 Jags and they score a lot of points. So the coaching staff will have no choice but to put the ball in Luck's hands. Yeah he threw a pick but they all do from Brees to Brady and last I checked it's the passing game not the power running game setting up our scores. I'd rather they go down swinging than trying to hold on to 14 pts and hope the other team stays at 3. Do what got you the lead in the first place and keep your foot on the gas. If you want to pamper Luck and not use his skills then you should have passed on him kept the goat or traded for Tebow. Yes he will make mistakes as a rookie just like Peyton did also but he will learn from them also. I saw better playcalling at the end of last season when O took over as qb and that ain't saying much.

[cmgww]

We might just be seeing why Steelers fans rejoiced to see Arians pack his bags for Indy. Hope his conservative ways have more to do with the overall inexperience of the offense and that it is not the general trend that we can expect for the future.

Um, not so sure about that....Big Ben for one was MAD AS heck about it. I mean, he only was OC for two SB winning teams. The common factor there? Both of those Steeler teams had top tier defenses. The one thing Arians needs to adjust is this; we don't have that. Yet. It takes time to build a D like that so you can play a bit more conservatively and get away with it. I don't think we were overly conservative; I think injuries piled up and we lost momentum. Pagano took the blame for the delay of game on the FG (which was caused by the refs taking their sweet time spotting the ball, but that's another story), and he was clearly mad during the post game conference, which is a nice change of pace. He won't accept this type of stuff. But remember he is learning on the job. And a big lesson was learned today; play ALL 60 minutes!!

[Coltsman1788]

Um, not so sure about that....Big Ben for one was MAD AS heck about it. I mean, he only was OC for two SB winning teams. The common factor there? Both of those Steeler teams had top tier defenses. The one thing Arians needs to adjust is this; we don't have that. Yet. It takes time to build a D like that so you can play a bit more conservatively and get away with it. I don't think we were overly conservative; I think injuries piled up and we lost momentum. Pagano took the blame for the delay of game on the FG (which was caused by the refs taking their sweet time spotting the ball, but that's another story), and he was clearly mad during the post game conference, which is a nice change of pace. He won't accept this type of stuff. But remember he is learning on the job. And a big lesson was learned today; play ALL 60 minutes!!

Good post. I agree with your point about the defense. We don't have that yet in Indy nor a power running game. Hopefully Pagano realizes this and is able to adjust more to the current strengths of this team.