Starting O Line Looked Good

[Smonroe]

Just charted the first Q, which was when the starting line played. I'm not going to list every play, but there were very few negatives. Andrew is taking the blame for the sack.

Those posters who jumped the gun and made negative threads about the Oline need to review the plays again.

The line probably graded out to a B.

[Dustin]

I agree. I'm not sure what other people on here were seeing. The protection was solid.

[1959Colts]

I just watched the tape. Pausing and in slow motion.

 

On the very first play of the game, Luck drops back to pass...

And Samson Satele totally whiffs against the DT.

Luck hurries, and does manage to complete a short pass.

But Satele missing his block is unacceptable. Just like so many times last year.

It appears nothing has changed.

 

I heard all the apologists give the excuses that Satele was playing hurt throughout the last season, and just give him another chance, he will improve.

But man. I am worried the truth is... Satele stinks.

[Dustin]

But, the faster Holmes and Thornton get in the starting line-up the better imo.

[Smonroe]

I agree. I'm not sure what other people on here were seeing. The protection was solid.

Thomas missed his first block, but the play went for a positive. Coby missed a block for a negative. Overall, very solid, I was pleasantly surprised.

I'm not sure we're going to see a power running game, but the guys were winning most of their assignments there too.

People forget we were up 10-3 when we took out most of the starters. So, yeah, their twos are better than ours.

[coltsfanatic24]

It was a miscue between Luck and Satele wasn't Castanzo's fault. Satele shouldn't be staring would rather see Holmes in there. Othen then that play the starters looked great. Emmett Cleary was also impressive with the second team did a great job pulling in the run game and was solid at pass protection.

[HtownColt]

I just rewatched the 1st quarter too, Protection was fair outside of like two plays(one was on Luck he says). Other than that I didn't see anything bad with the starters, when the backups came in that was the problem.

But like Dustin says: the quicker Thorton and Holmes are back the better

[Smonroe]

I just watched the tape. Pausing and in slow motion.

 

On the very first play of the game, Luck drops back to pass...

And Samson Satele totally whiffs against the DT.

Luck hurries, and does manage to complete a short pass.

But Satele missing his block is unacceptable. Just like so many times last year.

It appears nothing has changed.

 

I heard all the apologists give the excuses that Satele was playing hurt throughout the last season, and just give him another chance, he will improve.

But man. I am worried the truth is... Satele stinks.

Youre correct, Satele whiffed, but I think Thomas was supposed to double him. He blocked no one on that play.

[Smonroe]

I just rewatched the 1st quarter too, Protection was fair outside of like two plays(one was on Luck he says). Other than that I didn't see anything bad with the starters, when the backups came in that was the problem.

But like Dustin says: the quicker Thorton and Holmes are back the better

I can't say McGlynn played bad, and Satele was okay save that first play.

I hope Thorton and Holmes are better but since they haven't played we can't know.

I will say it's good to have a thread where we can discuss this logically.

[OffensivelyPC]

I would say that the Colts pass blocking looked better than it's run blocking (starters only).  Not perfect, but better than average.  For it being the first game that this unit has played together, I'm fairly impressed.  It takes time for a line to gel and I think people forget that. 

[BPM_Colt]

I'm not going to jump the gun on either side of the OL.. But I will say I was pleased with what I saw for the first 2 drives. Not downing the OL like some posters seem to already be doing, but also not praising them just yet. I do think we will be much better than last year, but that isn't saying much. However, Cherilus and Thomas WILL BE UPGRADES

[krunk]

I could see the improvements on both sides of the ball. Started off a bit rocky but once everybody settled down you could see the improvement. I think the D is going to be really solid this year. On the other side of the coin however our special teams looked like pure D garbage. I'll give it some time, but I hope this isn't what we got rid of Malouf for. That was a very questionable move.

[In Luck We Trust]

I just watched the tape. Pausing and in slow motion.

 

On the very first play of the game, Luck drops back to pass...

And Samson Satele totally whiffs against the DT.

Luck hurries, and does manage to complete a short pass.

But Satele missing his block is unacceptable. Just like so many times last year.

It appears nothing has changed.

 

I heard all the apologists give the excuses that Satele was playing hurt throughout the last season, and just give him another chance, he will improve.

But man. I am worried the truth is... Satele stinks.

I couldnt agree more. or what about the play where luck was waiting for satelle to snap the ball and when he finally did, Castanzo missed the block and  luck got hit as soon as he dropped back in the pocket. I still think the OLine needs to be improved or luck is going to get killed back there. this is more of a run blocking line group then it is in protecting the pass. just my opinion

[In Luck We Trust]

I would say that the Colts pass blocking looked better than it's run blocking (starters only).  Not perfect, but better than average.  For it being the first game that this unit has played together, I'm fairly impressed.  It takes time for a line to gel and I think people forget that. 

you think so? because from what i saw, it looked like the run game was better then the passing game in the first two or three series that the starters were in. I mean Satelle couldnt even snap the ball on time which resulted in Castanzo missing a block and luck getting hammered, and he even missed a block on the DT although Luck did get the 5 yard pass off, but still missed a block......still can not believe fleener fumbled though after making a couple great moves to break for an extra 5 to 10 yards. maybe new season jitters, what ever it is though with Allen missing a few weeks he needs to work on handling the ball. 

[ColtJ82]

Just charted the first Q, which was when the starting line played. I'm not going to list every play, but there were very few negatives. Andrew is taking the blame for the sack.

Those posters who jumped the gun and made negative threads about the Oline need to review the plays again.

The line probably graded out to a B.

It looked to me like Satele was to blame for that. i thought he snapped the ball on the wrong count.

[Smonroe]

I couldnt agree more. or what about the play where luck was waiting for satelle to snap the ball and when he finally did, Castanzo missed the block and  luck got hit as soon as he dropped back in the pocket. I still think the OLine needs to be improved or luck is going to get killed back there. this is more of a run blocking line group then it is in protecting the pass. just my opinion

 

That's two plays.  Yes, the O Line needs work but overall the first team played well.  Luck is taking blame for the sack, it was his cadence that screwed up the play.  I think it was both Satele and Thomas who messed up on that first play.

 

Besides those two, both Luck and MH had enough time to throw.  They had both some good and bad run blocking, mostly good.

[In Luck We Trust]

It was a miscue between Luck and Satele wasn't Castanzo's fault. Satele shouldn't be staring would rather see Holmes in there. Othen then that play the starters looked great. Emmett Cleary was also impressive with the second team did a great job pulling in the run game and was solid at pass protection.

well get use to satelle starting, because i honestly do not believe Holmes will stay healthy the whole season. # 1 goal in next years draft is draft a center in one of the first 3 rounds if any good ones come out of college, i dont know if there is any because i really dont pay attention to centers in college at least not as much as i do Tackles, WR's, RB's and QB's. 

[In Luck We Trust]

That's two plays.  Yes, the O Line needs work but overall the first team played well.  Luck is taking blame for the sack, it was his cadence that screwed up the play.  I think it was both Satele and Thomas who messed up on that first play.

 

Besides those two, both Luck and MH had enough time to throw.  They had both some good and bad run blocking, mostly good.

of course Luck is going to take the blame lol. The QB will never blame his OLine, that would spell disaster and his line will not block for him. but then again satelle has never been good as a pass blocker, at least its not his strong point that is. but yes overall i also feel it was a little better then last year. but still needs much more improvement. im just hoping its because its their first live action in months. 

[Smonroe]

of course Luck is going to take the blame lol. The QB will never blame his OLine, that would spell disaster and his line will not block for him. but then again satelle has never been good as a pass blocker, at least its not his strong point that is. but yes overall i also feel it was a little better then last year. but still needs much more improvement. im just hoping its because its their first live action in months. 

 

Okay, blame the missed snap on Satele.  Blame the sack on Castanzo.  That's one play we'll give the O line an F.

 

I charted the starting O line on every play.  That was the first Q.  Why don't you do the same and tell me how you scored them?

 

You have to take anything after that with a big grain of salt.

[Jason_]

you think so? because from what i saw, it looked like the run game was better then the passing game in the first two or three series that the starters were in. I mean Satelle couldnt even snap the ball on time which resulted in Castanzo missing a block and luck getting hammered, and he even missed a block on the DT although Luck did get the 5 yard pass off, but still missed a block......still can not believe fleener fumbled though after making a couple great moves to break for an extra 5 to 10 yards. maybe new season jitters, what ever it is though with Allen missing a few weeks he needs to work on handling the ball. 

 

Looked to me like Luck was the one who was off about the snap count.  I'm actually at that play right now and am watching it in slow mo.  Luck and McGlynn thought the snap count was one count earlier than everyone else.  Luck and Mcglynn moved together but no one else moved.  Williams started to take off when he saw Luck move but since Luck moved before anyone else was ready (except for Mcglynn) then Williams was easily able to get around Castonzo.  

 

The refs whiffed on this play as badly as anyone.  There should have been a false start on either McGlynn or Luck and then the play would have been blown dead and no hit on Luck.  

[Jason_]

of course Luck is going to take the blame lol. The QB will never blame his OLine, that would spell disaster and his line will not block for him. but then again satelle has never been good as a pass blocker, at least its not his strong point that is. but yes overall i also feel it was a little better then last year. but still needs much more improvement. im just hoping its because its their first live action in months. 

 

this, however, is one of the instances where the QB takes the blame because it was the QB's fault. ;)

[oldunclemark]

That's two plays.  Yes, the O Line needs work but overall the first team played well.  Luck is taking blame for the sack, it was his cadence that screwed up the play.  I think it was both Satele and Thomas who messed up on that first play.

 

Besides those two, both Luck and MH had enough time to throw.  They had both some good and bad run blocking, mostly good.

I wouldnt try to guess whose fault anything really was in the first pre-season game.

 

.....and I agree....I thought the offesne looked good and operated out of more formations that last year...

[TKnight24]

Satele could snap the ball high over Luck's head while in the shotgun & Andrew would take the blame for it. That's just who he is. It was satele who messed that play up the whole oline looked confused it just so happened Mario Wiliiams was on Castonzo side. Would've happened to any offensive lineman in that situation.

Luck took the blame on the television. But believe me the coaches will point out the culprit in the film room or at practice

[Jason_]

Satele could snap the ball high over Luck's head while in the shotgun & Andrew would take the blame for it. That's just who he is. It was satele who messed that play up the whole oline looked confused it just so happened Mario Wiliiams was on Castonzo side. Would've happened to any offensive lineman in that situation.

Luck took the blame on the television. But believe me the coaches will point out the culprit in the film room or at practice

 

 

yeah but not really ;).   McGlynn was the only other guy that moved when Luck first moved.  So 2 guys thought the snap count was one thing but the other 9 players thought it was something else.  So if Satele messed up the play, then so did Thomas, Cherilus, Castonzo, the 2 backs, the WR's and the TE.  ;)

[1959Colts]

I'm just saying. ..

After all the whiffs Satele made last year,

To have it happen again, on the very first play of the game???

I mean come on!

[GoColts8818]

Satele could snap the ball high over Luck's head while in the shotgun & Andrew would take the blame for it. That's just who he is. It was satele who messed that play up the whole oline looked confused it just so happened Mario Wiliiams was on Castonzo side. Would've happened to any offensive lineman in that situation.

Luck took the blame on the television. But believe me the coaches will point out the culprit in the film room or at practice

 Castonzo was just coming out of his stance and Williams was already by him.  I think it was more than just Satele that was off on the snap count.  In fact just about everyone didn't move except for Luck on the snap count, I think Luck might have messed up on that one.  It happens, first pre-season game of the year.  I would be/am more concerned with the poor snap on the first play of the game with that said I don't think Holmes is going to be some magic answer once he's healthy.  I think he can be one day but it will take him some time to develop.

 

This line IMO is still a work in progress.  Like I said in another thread I think the goal this year is to see it be better than last year and based on what I saw out of the starters today I do think they are better than last year so far even if they aren't where we want them to be yet. 

[Smonroe]

I'm just saying. ..

After all the whiffs Satele made last year,

To have it happen again, on the very first play of the game???

I mean come on!

 

Did you re-watch that play?  I'll take your word that it was Satele's responsibility.  But you'll notice that he's engaged on the play and Thomas is looking around for someone to block.

[1959Colts]

Did you re-watch that play?  I'll take your word that it was Satele's responsibility.  But you'll notice that he's engaged on the play and Thomas is looking around for someone to block.

 

Yes I watched it several times. Satele was not engaged with another player. What happened was...

 

Buffalo lines up in their base defense.

After Satele snaps the ball, the DT shoots the gap between Satele and Thomas and is unblocked rushing Luck.

Neither Satele or Thomas blocks the DT.

Perhaps the responsibility was Satele's? Perhaps it was on Thomas? Perhaps both are too blame?

Who's fault it was is not my biggest concern?

 

The problem is,

Time after time, last year, the same thing happened. Missed blocking assignments on the interior line.

Where the DT would just run right past Satele unabated to the QB.

 

Then on this forum everyone would make excuses for Satele and say the blame was on the guard. Either McGlynn or Seth Olsen etc..

 

But my point is, regardless if its the Center who misses his assignment, or if its the Guard who was responsible,

It is unacceptable in the NFL, that up against a simple base defense, the D-Tackles are running right in, unblocked, sacking our QB, because our players don't know who they are supposed to block.

This problem must be addressed this season . As it was not corrected last year.

 

I hoped maybe the new O-Line coach would fix this? Or Pep Hamilton's schemes would resolve who the center and guard should be blocking?

But it was same old thing on the first play of the game yesterday.

[bahhummbug]

Just charted the first Q, which was when the starting line played. I'm not going to list every play, but there were very few negatives. Andrew is taking the blame for the sack.

Those posters who jumped the gun and made negative threads about the Oline need to review the plays again.

The line probably graded out to a B.

We must remember it is early and Bradshaw was not playing.Bradshaw is 1 mean blocker in the backfield.

[SteelCityColt]

Just charted the first Q, which was when the starting line played. I'm not going to list every play, but there were very few negatives. Andrew is taking the blame for the sack.

Those posters who jumped the gun and made negative threads about the Oline need to review the plays again.

The line probably graded out to a B.

 

Sorry to ask a possibly stupid question but when you say charted, what's your methodology? 

[Smonroe]

Sorry to ask a possibly stupid question but when you say charted, what's your methodology? 

 

It's not something I normally do, but there was so much talk about how bad the line performed that I had to check it out.  I looked at every play (TV angle and camera make this difficult).  I went through the play, frame by frame, watching each lineman.  I won't assume that I know their assignments, but it's fairly easy to figure it out.

 

You then just grade each guy on each play to see how they did on their apparent assignment.  I'd love to know how my grades match up against the coaches, but that will never happen.

 

I didn't play line, but I think I have a fairly good understanding of their schemes, be it zone, man, etc...

[Smonroe]

Yes I watched it several times. Satele was not engaged with another player. What happened was...

 

Buffalo lines up in their base defense.

After Satele snaps the ball, the DT shoots the gap between Satele and Thomas and is unblocked rushing Luck.

Neither Satele or Thomas blocks the DT.

Perhaps the responsibility was Satele's? Perhaps it was on Thomas? Perhaps both are too blame?

Who's fault it was is not my biggest concern?

 

The problem is,

Time after time, last year, the same thing happened. Missed blocking assignments on the interior line.

Where the DT would just run right past Satele unabated to the QB.

 

Then on this forum everyone would make excuses for Satele and say the blame was on the guard. Either McGlynn or Seth Olsen etc..

 

But my point is, regardless if its the Center who misses his assignment, or if its the Guard who was responsible,

It is unacceptable in the NFL, that up against a simple base defense, the D-Tackles are running right in, unblocked, sacking our QB, because our players don't know who they are supposed to block.

This problem must be addressed this season . As it was not corrected last year.

 

I hoped maybe the new O-Line coach would fix this? Or Pep Hamilton's schemes would resolve who the center and guard should be blocking?

But it was same old thing on the first play of the game yesterday.

 

I don't want to defend Satele, I think we can do better.  Same with McGlynn.

 

Point being, we're obsessing over the first play of the first game of the preseason.   I thought they both played pretty well after that.  I'm not going to judge them the rest of this year based on their performance last year.   Hopefully we have a couple guys in the wings that will do better if they fail again.

[SteelCityColt]

It's not something I normally do, but there was so much talk about how bad the line performed that I had to check it out.  I looked at every play (TV angle and camera make this difficult).  I went through the play, frame by frame, watching each lineman.  I won't assume that I know their assignments, but it's fairly easy to figure it out.

 

You then just grade each guy on each play to see how they did on their apparent assignment.  I'd love to know how my grades match up against the coaches, but that will never happen.

 

I didn't play line, but I think I have a fairly good understanding of their schemes, be it zone, man, etc...

 

Thank you for the answer, I'd assume it's a lot easier to do in pre-season with vanilla D (IIRC Bills just sent straight up 4 man rush a lot), It is great having the ability to watch games back so you can concentrate on individuals and how well they've done. I was watching 49ers preseason game and as soon as Collie came onto the field I started tracking him and kept missing where the throw had actually gone half the time. 

[Holden89]

Idk, I thought the starting line played pretty well.  No linemen, except the very best, is going to perfectly execute his assignment on every play.  That's just unrealistic. We don't pay any of our linemen the kind of money it requires to get those types of players.

 

On the play where Castanzo didn't even touch Mario Williams, you can just see something was weird.  In addition to 2 or 3 linemen, a couple of the receivers (Coby Fleener for sure) got off late on the ball.  Of course the defense was quicker to react.  Offense moves on cadence, defense moves on ball movement.  That half second makes a huge difference.  That play I'm not counting as a negative towards the overall Oline.  I firmly believe it was a communication issue.

 

I only saw a couple of negative plays for the oline at all.  There were holes in the run game  (even the best teams have runs get stuffed once in awhile) and the pass protection, for the most part, was solid.  All in all, the starting offense, and the back-up offense looked pretty good.  It wasn't until the reserves came in that we lost control of that game.

[Archer]

 Emmett Cleary was also impressive with the second team did a great job pulling in the run game and was solid at pass protection.

 

I wonder if Cleary is quietly going to stake a claim on that RG spot in Thornton's absence.  If Thornton doesn't come back this week, I don't like his chances of winning the RG spot.  However, if Cleary shows promise, that job could be his!

[coltsfanatic24]

I wonder if Cleary is quietly going to stake a claim on that RG spot in Thornton's absence.  If Thornton doesn't come back this week, I don't like his chances of winning the RG spot.  However, if Cleary shows promise, that job could be his!

Cleary should definitely be starting over Mcglynn, he's the best pulling guard we've had in a long time and a solid pass blocker. If Thornton is healthy, i think he'll start at RG because he's the best pass blocker of the 3 and he was drafted so high. The thing about Thornton is he's versatile played a lot of RT in college so if anything was to happen to Cherilus, he could step right in and take over and it wouldn't be a big drop off. Cleary would be a great 6th man it's almost impossible for an entire o-line to go through a season without someone getting hurt so he'll have his oppurtunities, just has to take advantage of them.

[BrentMc11]

I can't say McGlynn played bad, and Satele was okay save that first play.

I hope Thorton and Holmes are better but since they haven't played we can't know.

I will say it's good to have a thread where we can discuss this logically.

I am McAwful's harshest critic.....and I agree he was not bad.  He helped open a nice hole for Ballard in the first quarter.  He did have two plays as I mentioned in another thread that his man beat him.  My hope is that if he DOES start, he stays healthy.  I am hoping some of the abysmal performance of last year was due to injury!!!  (Hoping)

[BrentMc11]

I do not know about anyone else, but for being with the team for a week, I thought that Thomas Austin played respectably at center.

 

Yes he got beat as did most of the 3rd string guys with Harnish getting hammered on virtually every play, but for just getting here, he looked like he knew what he was doing....as he was only listed as a Guard.  Time will tell.

 

Let me know what you think...especially those who taped it....I was at the 40 yard line with a good view....but tape is a good thing

[Smonroe]

I do not know about anyone else, but for being with the team for a week, I thought that Thomas Austin played respectably at center.

 

Yes he got beat as did most of the 3rd string guys with Harnish getting hammered on virtually every play, but for just getting here, he looked like he knew what he was doing....as he was only listed as a Guard.  Time will tell.

 

Let me know what you think...especially those who taped it....I was at the 40 yard line with a good view....but tape is a good thing

You had a much better view than those of us watching on TV. I'd be interested to know how he graded out.

Kyle Rodriguiz from Colts Authority said Setale and MCGlynn both graded a -1.0 according to PFF. He said every other O linemen graded positive. I'm not sure if he meant starters only.

[Archer]

Can anyone explain those grades?  Is there some sort of grading system where the player is given a number grade for every single play (positive # for a good play and a negative # for a bad play), and they just sum up the numbers at the end of the game?  People throw those grades around, but all I've gleaned is that a positive # is good, and a negative one is bad...