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Flex Games: Weeks 11-17


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#1 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 02:34 PM

During the pre-season there was a thread talking about flex-games and what games might get moved if any. Since the season is roughly half over, it might be easier to take a look at that again.



*Week 11
Sun. Nov. 18
Baltimore Ravens at Pittsburgh Steelers
I believe this one remains in place as is.

*Week 12
Sun. Nov. 25
Green Bay Packers at New York Giants
I believe this one remains in place as is.

*Week 13
Sun. Dec. 2
Philadelphia Eagles at Dallas Cowboys
It is hard to say how big of an NFC East battle this will be. If the Giants run away with some games, then this one might mean less. It could still have some wild card implications but it looks as if the Wild-Card teams will be coming from the Central/West this year.

Possible replacement games:Note that some of these games are going to be locked into CBS/FOX but the status of each game is not known:
Patriots @ Dolphins
Seahawks @ Bears
Colts @ Lions
Vikings @ Packers
Steelers @ Ravens


*Week 14
Sun. Dec. 9
Detroit Lions at Green Bay Packers

I believe this one remains in place as is though the Bears @ Vikings or Cardinals @ Seahawks might give it a push.



*Week 15
Sun. Dec. 16
San Francisco 49ers at New England Patriots
I believe this one remains in place as is.

*Week 16
Sun. Dec. 23
San Diego Chargers at New York Jets

I can see this one being moved unless both teams take an immediate upswing.
Possible replacement games:Note that some of these games are going to be locked into CBS/FOX but the status of each game is not known:
Vikings @ Texans
Giants @ Ravens
Bengals @ Steelers
Bears @ Cardinals
49ers @ Seahawks



*Week 17
Sun. Dec. 30
TBA

Obviously this one is quite unpredictable at this point and the NFL will likely move a game that has a "win & in", or a game whose result has seeding implications if at all possible.

Interesting games:
Dolphins @ Patriots might have AFC East factors to decide. I doubt it, but you never know.
Falcons @ Buccaneers, this one is only really an option if there isn't a win & in game, or if Atlanta is chasing perfection.
Any of the following: Packers @ Vikings, Texans @ Colts, Ravens @ Bengals, Eagles @ Giants, Cardinals @ 49ers could be set up to decide a divisional crown. Some more likely than others but you never know.

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#2 southwest1

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:38 PM

Week 16: Sunday, December 23rd: This game intrigues me. 49ers @ Seahawks. I hope they put a top tier zebra crew on this one with national TV exposure. Great defenses against a mediocre/average offense IMO.

You never know if a Playoff QB is gonna show up in this game or not on either side. Unpredictability always makes for must see viewing in my household anyway.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#3 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 04:43 PM

interesting info
Onward Princeton Forward Princeton

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#4 haughvillian

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Posted 01 November 2012 - 09:51 PM

It is possible that a Colt's game gets moved to the 4:25 late slot if they continue to win...that would be another positive instead of all 1:00 games!

#5 Stephen

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 02:22 AM

It is possible that a Colt's game gets moved to the 4:25 late slot if they continue to win...that would be another positive instead of all 1:00 games!

I like 1 oclock games get to see them faster

#6 HungarianColtsFan

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 05:58 AM

I do have controversial thoughts on it.

If Colt's games are moved later, that means our team has drawn attention for it's performance. On the other side I wil have 0 chance to follow them. 16:25 means 22:25 here, that is OK, but MNF for instance means 2:00 AM here...

I think if Colts would be @ MNF I will get up to watch them! MNF is broadcasted here every week!!!

GO COLTS!

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#7 jskinnz

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Posted 02 November 2012 - 06:44 AM

During the pre-season there was a thread talking about flex-games and what games might get moved if any. Since the season is roughly half over, it might be easier to take a look at that again.

*Week 13
Sun. Dec. 2
Philadelphia Eagles at Dallas Cowboys
It is hard to say how big of an NFC East battle this will be. If the Giants run away with some games, then this one might mean less. It could still have some wild card implications but it looks as if the Wild-Card teams will be coming from the Central/West this year.

Possible replacement games:Note that some of these games are going to be locked into CBS/FOX but the status of each game is not known:
Patriots @ Dolphins
Seahawks @ Bears
Colts @ Lions
Vikings @ Packers
Steelers @ Ravens



With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night.

#8 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:23 PM

With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night.


That's a fair point.


So far weeks 11/12 Sunday Night Football remains as scheduled.

#9 Superman

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:36 PM

With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night.


And that's too bad. I'd rather see any of the other alternatives rather than those two train wreck teams. I don't get very excited about NFC East games even when the teams are good.
LET'S HUNT

#10 southwest1

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 12:53 PM

With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night.


I have a real problem with that statement from purely a NFL TV ratings perspective. Coach Bill Parcels was always fond of saying "You are what your record says you are." Now, if Dallas continues to lose, they do not deserve a Primetime time slot IMO. Dallas is not a relevant squad in the NFL anymore. At least not at this moment. Yes, I have made no secret of my intense dislike for the Dallas Cowboys that is true. But, if they surprise me & starting winning like gang busters, I will swallow my pride & admit it publicly. My point is your record actually does matter & Dallas is as relevant as the Cleveland Browns are. My apologies Cleveland. You are moving up though thankfully.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#11 GoColts8818

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 01:34 PM

They wont flex the Eagles vs Cowboys because they draw ratings when they are on which is why they are on prime-time so much to start with. I also don't know if they will flex any of those others games in as they only get to flex a team once and frankly most of those teams probably have bigger games that they might want to flex later in the season.

The only game I see maybe getting flexed outside of the last week of the season when they have to flex one is the Chargers Jets game. Giants @ Ravens might very well go in that spot if they are in the playoff hunt like I think they will be. Of course if the 49ers @ Seahawks are playing for the NFC west title which is unlikely but possibly they could go in as well. Anything else would have to be a battle for playoff spots like Cards and Bears might be.

There are also a handful of games that CBS and Fox get to protect and we don't know that list or at least I don't know it. I could easily see a game like Giants @ Ravens being protected by Fox.
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#12 jskinnz

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:02 PM

I have a real problem with that statement from purely a NFL TV ratings perspective. Coach Bill Parcels was always fond of saying "You are what your record says you are." Now, if Dallas continues to lose, they do not deserve a Primetime time slot IMO. Dallas is not a relevant squad in the NFL anymore. At least not at this moment. Yes, I have made no secret of my intense dislike for the Dallas Cowboys that is true. But, if they surprise me & starting winning like gang busters, I will swallow my pride & admit it publicly. My point is your record actually does matter & Dallas is as relevant as the Cleveland Browns are. My apologies Cleveland. You are moving up though thankfully.


That is all well and good but also pretty naive. Ratings are king and Dallas draws.

#13 southwest1

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 02:28 PM

That is all well and good but also pretty naive. Ratings are king and Dallas draws.


How is naive to say that Dallas who hasn't won a SB since 1996, the 20th Century, is NOT worthy of the attention they get media wise? Ratings are based on Playoffs production & Dallas has not produced period. Actually, I thought it was rather humble & mature on my part to acknowledge "if they surprise me & starting winning like gang busters, I will swallow my pride & admit it publicly."

Dallas draws what exactly? Fumbles, interceptions, and an outdated reputation of relevency based off of previous SB victories in a previous Millennium? I agree with that assessment 100%

Prove me wrong & the rest of the NFL world wrong & all this criticism washes away jskinnz.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#14 Superman

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 03:21 PM

How is naive to say that Dallas who hasn't won a SB since 1996, the 20th Century, is NOT worthy of the attention they get media wise? Ratings are based on Playoffs production & Dallas has not produced period. Actually, I thought it was rather humble & mature on my part to acknowledge "if they surprise me & starting winning like gang busters, I will swallow my pride & admit it publicly."

Dallas draws what exactly? Fumbles, interceptions, and an outdated reputation of relevency based off of previous SB victories in a previous Millennium? I agree with that assessment 100%

Prove me wrong & the rest of the NFL world wrong & all this criticism washes away jskinnz.


Not to speak for anyone else, but your opinion of the Cowboys is largely irrelevant. Sad, I know, but true. Also irrelevant is the fact that the Cowboys are a gigantic dumpster fire at the moment, and haven't been worthy of the media attention they've received for the past 15 years.

What is relevant is that they are a ratings monster. That's why they get the media attention they do. When you put the Cowboys in primetime, people watch. Not you and I, for the most part, but millions of other people, enough that the smart media guys who work on the primetime schedule put the Cowboys on in primetime at least four times a year. And the network guys who pay millions for each broadcast like it that way. They wouldn't do that if people weren't watching. And at the end of the day, the networks and the NFL don't care that the Cowboys aren't going to be relevant in Week 13. They only care that people are going to watch.

Part of the reason so many people watch Cowboys games in primetime is that they are the most popular NFL team, and they have fans all over the country. So even though they suck, their fans in markets that don't get their games every week will watch. Same can't be said for the Colts or the Chargers or the Bucs, because those teams don't have anywhere near as many fans in other regions.

This is all about television ratings. And NBC sold those ratings to advertisers way back when the schedule was first announced, and those advertisers paid big money to run commercials during the Cowboys/Eagles game in Week 13. It's already done. So long as people are going to watch, NBC has no incentive to flex the Cowboys out of that slot. Not unless they see a matchup that would draw even bigger ratings. I'm not confident Colts @ Lions would, personally. I'd love to see the Colts get flexed into that slot, but I doubt it.

If any game is going to get flexed, it would probably be Steelers/Ravens, another matchup featuring a super popular team with fans all over the country. But I doubt even that, and I would bet that CBS has that game protected from being flexed anyways. I think NBC is going to keep the matchup they have, and Michaels and Collinsworth are going to spend three hours talking about how dramatic those two teams have been this season, and you and I will probably go to the movies or something.
LET'S HUNT

#15 jskinnz

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 04:52 PM

How is naive to say that Dallas who hasn't won a SB since 1996, the 20th Century, is NOT worthy of the attention they get media wise? Ratings are based on Playoffs production & Dallas has not produced period. Actually, I thought it was rather humble & mature on my part to acknowledge "if they surprise me & starting winning like gang busters, I will swallow my pride & admit it publicly."

Dallas draws what exactly? Fumbles, interceptions, and an outdated reputation of relevency based off of previous SB victories in a previous Millennium? I agree with that assessment 100%

Prove me wrong & the rest of the NFL world wrong & all this criticism washes away jskinnz.


It is naive because ratings is the single most important factor on who gets on television. And Dallas is the biggest draw out there - dumpster fire or not. Your diatribe on why you think they are not relevant is completely meaningless because people will watch.

Did you by chance see the Howard Stern movie Private Parts. At one point the executives at Stern's station were trying to make heads or tails of his ratings, which were through the roof. The people that loved him said they listen to see what he would say next. The people that hate him said they listened to see what he would say next. The bottom line is that both sides were LISTENING. That explains the Cowboys. Between what Superman said and my analogy, maybe it makes sense.

#16 FanFromtheWasteland

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:37 PM

It seems to me that the Cowboys have become the football version of the Cubs.

#17 schwamm

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 05:53 PM

It seems to me that the Cowboys have become the football version of the Cubs.

It seems to me that the Cowboys have become the football version of the Kardasians.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#18 southwest1

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 06:48 PM

It is naive because ratings is the single most important factor on who gets on television. And Dallas is the biggest draw out there - dumpster fire or not. Your diatribe on why you think they are not relevant is completely meaningless because people will watch.

Did you by chance see the Howard Stern movie Private Parts. At one point the executives at Stern's station were trying to make heads or tails of his ratings, which were through the roof. The people that loved him said they listen to see what he would say next. The people that hate him said they listened to see what he would say next. The bottom line is that both sides were LISTENING. That explains the Cowboys. Between what Superman said and my analogy, maybe it makes sense.

Not to speak for anyone else, but your opinion of the Cowboys is largely irrelevant. Sad, I know, but true. Also irrelevant is the fact that the Cowboys are a gigantic dumpster fire at the moment, and haven't been worthy of the media attention they've received for the past 15 years.

What is relevant is that they are a ratings monster. That's why they get the media attention they do. When you put the Cowboys in primetime, people watch. Not you and I, for the most part, but millions of other people, enough that the smart media guys who work on the primetime schedule put the Cowboys on in primetime at least four times a year. And the network guys who pay millions for each broadcast like it that way. They wouldn't do that if people weren't watching. And at the end of the day, the networks and the NFL don't care that the Cowboys aren't going to be relevant in Week 13. They only care that people are going to watch.

Part of the reason so many people watch Cowboys games in primetime is that they are the most popular NFL team, and they have fans all over the country. So even though they suck, their fans in markets that don't get their games every week will watch. Same can't be said for the Colts or the Chargers or the Bucs, because those teams don't have anywhere near as many fans in other regions.

This is all about television ratings. And NBC sold those ratings to advertisers way back when the schedule was first announced, and those advertisers paid big money to run commercials during the Cowboys/Eagles game in Week 13. It's already done. So long as people are going to watch, NBC has no incentive to flex the Cowboys out of that slot. Not unless they see a matchup that would draw even bigger ratings. I'm not confident Colts @ Lions would, personally. I'd love to see the Colts get flexed into that slot, but I doubt it.

If any game is going to get flexed, it would probably be Steelers/Ravens, another matchup featuring a super popular team with fans all over the country. But I doubt even that, and I would bet that CBS has that game protected from being flexed anyways. I think NBC is going to keep the matchup they have, and Michaels and Collinsworth are going to spend three hours talking about how dramatic those two teams have been this season, and you and I will probably go to the movies or something.


Diatribe: "A bitter verbal or written attack on somebody or something." Was I inaccurate in anything I said about the Dallas Cowboys organization and their consistent failure to win on the football field in over a decade? No, I wasn't. If your benchmark is TV ratings & the love of colossal train wrecks then the NY Jets should trump the Dallas Cowboys media market share by a landslide & yet it doesn't why? The NY media market is the largest in the world. Eat your heart out Jerry Jones. He hates being 2nd place in any competition. The Jets have actually been to an AFC Championship Game within this decade. More credibility than Dallas can claim & yet the Jets are even more dysfunctional than the Cowboys & they fail to exceed the media limelight that Dallas does. Very odd IMO.

I get it controversy sells & moves the interest meter whether in shock jock radio or professional sports, which is undeniable. But, at some point, production or the severe longevity of losing must take it's media irrelevancy toll sooner or later. It's inevitable.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#19 jskinnz

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 08:32 PM

Diatribe: "A bitter verbal or written attack on somebody or something." Was I inaccurate in anything I said about the Dallas Cowboys organization and their consistent failure to win on the football field in over a decade? No, I wasn't. If your benchmark is TV ratings & the love of colossal train wrecks then the NY Jets should trump the Dallas Cowboys media market share by a landslide & yet it doesn't why? The NY media market is the largest in the world. Eat your heart out Jerry Jones. He hates being 2nd place in any competition. The Jets have actually been to an AFC Championship Game within this decade. More credibility than Dallas can claim & yet the Jets are even more dysfunctional than the Cowboys & they fail to exceed the media limelight that Dallas does. Very odd IMO.

I get it controversy sells & moves the interest meter whether in shock jock radio or professional sports, which is undeniable. But, at some point, production or the severe longevity of losing must take it's media irrelevancy toll sooner or later. It's inevitable.


Dear God...

#20 Superman

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Posted 07 November 2012 - 09:02 PM

Diatribe: "A bitter verbal or written attack on somebody or something." Was I inaccurate in anything I said about the Dallas Cowboys organization and their consistent failure to win on the football field in over a decade? No, I wasn't. If your benchmark is TV ratings & the love of colossal train wrecks then the NY Jets should trump the Dallas Cowboys media market share by a landslide & yet it doesn't why? The NY media market is the largest in the world. Eat your heart out Jerry Jones. He hates being 2nd place in any competition. The Jets have actually been to an AFC Championship Game within this decade. More credibility than Dallas can claim & yet the Jets are even more dysfunctional than the Cowboys & they fail to exceed the media limelight that Dallas does. Very odd IMO.

I get it controversy sells & moves the interest meter whether in shock jock radio or professional sports, which is undeniable. But, at some point, production or the severe longevity of losing must take it's media irrelevancy toll sooner or later. It's inevitable.


It's not about controversy or the train wreck status of the Cowboys. That's not why people watch them. The Cowboys generate viewership because they have a massive and widespread fanbase that reaches into every corner and pocket of the country. People from Des Moines to Tallahassee are Cowboys fans. There are even blocks of fans in other major media markets, in the backyards of other widely popular teams. There are Cowboys fan bars in places like Green Bay and Pittsburgh.

And those fans travel. When the Cowboys play in Seattle, their fans go to the games. And so on. There's a reason they have the title "America's Team."

It defies logic, since, as you say, they haven't been relevant for several years now. And ownership and management has been awful along that stretch. But no matter; they are still one of the most popular sports franchises in the country, if not the world. There was a study earlier this year that ranked them as #2 in the world, only behind Manchester United. They're more popular than the Yankees and the Lakers, two teams that also retained their popularity despite long stretches of inadequacy and incompetence.

Perhaps their fanbase loses its enthusiasm when the team is doing poorly, so they won't travel for games and they don't pack out the bars. I live in SoCal, and before 1999, there weren't very many people sport Laker flags or wearing jerseys. But how much enthusiasm does it take to sit in front of the TV on Sunday night and watch your team? Especially when this is one of four or five times they'll be on in your market?

I don't think you'll ever see the Cowboys NOT pull numbers on primetime television. They watched when Quincy Carter was the quarterback; they watched when Dave Campo was the head coach; they watched when they were 5-11 three years in a row, etc. I don't begrudge them of that. Their fans want to see them on TV, and advertisers pay more for slots during their games. Cash is king, right?

Meantime, our team is perhaps the story of the year, and we don't have any primetime slots this season, aside from tomorrow night. That's just the way it goes.
LET'S HUNT

#21 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:39 AM

It's not about controversy or the train wreck status of the Cowboys. That's not why people watch them. The Cowboys generate viewership because they have a massive and widespread fanbase that reaches into every corner and pocket of the country. People from Des Moines to Tallahassee are Cowboys fans. There are even blocks of fans in other major media markets, in the backyards of other widely popular teams. There are Cowboys fan bars in places like Green Bay and Pittsburgh.

And those fans travel. When the Cowboys play in Seattle, their fans go to the games. And so on. There's a reason they have the title "America's Team."

It defies logic, since, as you say, they haven't been relevant for several years now. And ownership and management has been awful along that stretch. But no matter; they are still one of the most popular sports franchises in the country, if not the world. There was a study earlier this year that ranked them as #2 in the world, only behind Manchester United. They're more popular than the Yankees and the Lakers, two teams that also retained their popularity despite long stretches of inadequacy and incompetence.

Perhaps their fanbase loses its enthusiasm when the team is doing poorly, so they won't travel for games and they don't pack out the bars. I live in SoCal, and before 1999, there weren't very many people sport Laker flags or wearing jerseys. But how much enthusiasm does it take to sit in front of the TV on Sunday night and watch your team? Especially when this is one of four or five times they'll be on in your market?

I don't think you'll ever see the Cowboys NOT pull numbers on primetime television. They watched when Quincy Carter was the quarterback; they watched when Dave Campo was the head coach; they watched when they were 5-11 three years in a row, etc. I don't begrudge them of that. Their fans want to see them on TV, and advertisers pay more for slots during their games. Cash is king, right?

Meantime, our team is perhaps the story of the year, and we don't have any primetime slots this season, aside from tomorrow night. That's just the way it goes.


I always enjoy debating issues with you Superman & you do make several significant points. Some of these points include: Jerry Jones is a marketing genius even I can't deny that, the Cowboys fan base is well traveled and they fly almost anywhere on the globe to watch their team play live, and Jerry Jones knows how to package the experience of being a Dallas Cowboys fan. Very well articulated and spelled out.

However, to me, relevancy as an NFL franchise is directly correlated to Playoff appearances, division titles, and SB rings. Legacy and NFL mortality is tied to the Lombardi Trophy and that silver shimmering trophy had better be won within the last 4 years. No one wins a prize for 2nd best or runner up; To the victor goes the spoils. That means the top tier teams right now are the Steelers, Patriots, Giants, Colts, Green Bay, and the Ravens.

This notion that fans scour the Earth in favor of the Cowboys is simply laughable and hilarious to me. Yes, they have a large following, but to suggest that Dallas fans trump Pittsburgh, Patriots, or Colts fans in sheer volume and magnitude alone is simply crazy. Let's jump on plane and fly to Zaire, Africa and a ask a child in a desolate remote village who their favorite American football team is shall we...I doubt that Dallas will automatically roll off their tongue immediately, but who knows anything is possible I suppose right?

Here's another question: Once owner Jerry Jones dies, does the Dallas marketing empire die right along with him? Jerry Jones name carries a great deal of cache and weight among advertisers due to his persona alone. Can 1 of his sons carry the marketing genius torch or not? Think AL Davis of the Oakland Raiders...Once he died the dynamic of that team completely changed almost overnight. Davis's rebel persona...feuds with previous NFL commissioners and relocating the team to LA and Oakland helped define the "Black Hole" we move to the beat of own drum mentality etc. forget what the rest of the league thinks or does.

Lastly, I agree 100%. I'd love to see the Colts in a Primetime TV slot too, because we are a young and resilent squad whose previous string of division titles and Playoff appearances for over a decade under a different field general warrants a little consideration for more TV broadcast exposure than we currently get. It's a travesty actually.

Nice talking with you Superman. It was fun. :thmup:
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#22 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:14 AM

Diatribe: "A bitter verbal or written attack on somebody or something." Was I inaccurate in anything I said about the Dallas Cowboys organization and their consistent failure to win on the football field in over a decade? No, I wasn't. If your benchmark is TV ratings & the love of colossal train wrecks then the NY Jets should trump the Dallas Cowboys media market share by a landslide & yet it doesn't why? The NY media market is the largest in the world. Eat your heart out Jerry Jones. He hates being 2nd place in any competition. The Jets have actually been to an AFC Championship Game within this decade. More credibility than Dallas can claim & yet the Jets are even more dysfunctional than the Cowboys & they fail to exceed the media limelight that Dallas does. Very odd IMO. I get it controversy sells & moves the interest meter whether in shock jock radio or professional sports, which is undeniable. But, at some point, production or the severe longevity of losing must take it's media irrelevancy toll sooner or later. It's inevitable.

Dear God...


Dear God what exactly jskinnz? I've lost it...I'm off my rocker...I can't let things go....

Perhaps...But, people calling me nuts or way off base isn't gonna stop me. Take a number and step in line. Now, serving customer number 85. I speak my mind and mean what I say. Some people are unaccustomed to that idea. Sure, anyone can have a difference of opinion from mine. No problem. That is perfectly fine. I just refuse to buy that this Dallas Cowboys "America's Team" label is justified. I don't celebrate, commemorate, or honor winless teams like the Cowboys living off of previous Championship laurels and ancient days of yesteryear.

Let me spell it out for you: Dallas is hyped, blown out of context, and O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D. Forget merchandising sales, ticket sales, and plane ticket sales. They are a Playoffs joke and a SB wanna be clown show largely because of no locker room leadership or mental toughness. They believe their own press clippings and international exposure...Always a fatal flaw.

"Pride always comes before the fall." Just ask Napoleon and Julius Caesar or the historians about the decline of the Roman Empire in 476 A.D.

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Posted Image
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#23 jskinnz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 07:23 AM

Dear God what exactly jskinnz? I've lost it...I'm off my rocker...I can't let things go....

Perhaps...But, people calling me nuts or way off base isn't gonna stop me. Take a number and step in line. Now, serving customer number 85. I speak my mind and mean what I say. Some people are unaccustomed to that idea. Sure, anyone can have a difference of opinion from mine. No problem. That is perfectly fine. I just refuse to buy that this Dallas Cowboys "America's Team" label is justified. I don't celebrate, commemorate, or honor winless teams like the Cowboys living off of previous Championship laurels and ancient days of yesteryear.

Let me spell it out for you: Dallas is hyped, blown out of context, and O-V-E-R-R-A-T-E-D. Forget merchandising sales, ticket sales, and plane ticket sales. They are a Playoffs joke and a SB wanna be clown show largely because of no locker room leadership or mental toughness. They believe their own press clippings and international exposure...Always a fatal flaw.

"Pride always comes before the fall." Just ask Napoleon and Julius Caesar or the historians about the decline of the Roman Empire in 476 A.D.

Posted Image

Posted Image


Another Dear God for you.

Look, all your ramblings are completely meaningless to the point of this thread, which is will their game against Philly get flexed out of Sunday night? And the answer to that is a categorical no because they draw ratings. Simple as that. Is that so freaking hard to comprehend? Yes Dallas is overrated, over-hyped, and anything else you want to say about them. I completely agree. But that simply does not matter because people will tune in to watch. They are the Kardashians and the Jersey Shore of the NFL but just like those train wrecks, people watch.

#24 Superman

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:04 PM

I always enjoy debating issues with you Superman & you do make several significant points. Some of these points include: Jerry Jones is a marketing genius even I can't deny that, the Cowboys fan base is well traveled and they fly almost anywhere on the globe to watch their team play live, and Jerry Jones knows how to package the experience of being a Dallas Cowboys fan. Very well articulated and spelled out.

However, to me, relevancy as an NFL franchise is directly correlated to Playoff appearances, division titles, and SB rings. Legacy and NFL mortality is tied to the Lombardi Trophy and that silver shimmering trophy had better be won within the last 4 years. No one wins a prize for 2nd best or runner up; To the victor goes the spoils. That means the top tier teams right now are the Steelers, Patriots, Giants, Colts, Green Bay, and the Ravens.

This notion that fans scour the Earth in favor of the Cowboys is simply laughable and hilarious to me. Yes, they have a large following, but to suggest that Dallas fans trump Pittsburgh, Patriots, or Colts fans in sheer volume and magnitude alone is simply crazy. Let's jump on plane and fly to Zaire, Africa and a ask a child in a desolate remote village who their favorite American football team is shall we...I doubt that Dallas will automatically roll off their tongue immediately, but who knows anything is possible I suppose right?


I'm not trying to justify this. I'm simply pointing out that it is what it is. I'm not defending it; I'm not arguing in favor of it. It's just the case.

http://www.prdaily.c...orts_11785.aspx
http://www.forbes.co...lion-valuation/
http://www.forbes.co...e-sports-teams/

Maybe you can't go to a remote village in a third world land and find a majority in favor of the Cowboys. But they probably don't have a favorite sports team, right? And they don't watch TV, they don't put money in advertisers pockets, they don't go to games. I don't think they're relevant when it comes to who gets put scheduled on Sunday Night Football.

What you're arguing is the equivalent of saying that McDonald's shouldn't be one of the most popular food chains because their food is no-quality garbage packed with additives. Most would agree. But that doesn't change the fact that there are tens of thousands of McDonald's in over a hundred different countries. If you're ever in Qatar or Pakistan and want a Big Mac, you can find one. Not saying it's right. Just saying it is.

Here's another question: Once owner Jerry Jones dies, does the Dallas marketing empire die right along with him? Jerry Jones name carries a great deal of cache and weight among advertisers due to his persona alone. Can 1 of his sons carry the marketing genius torch or not? Think AL Davis of the Oakland Raiders...Once he died the dynamic of that team completely changed almost overnight. Davis's rebel persona...feuds with previous NFL commissioners and relocating the team to LA and Oakland helped define the "Black Hole" we move to the beat of own drum mentality etc. forget what the rest of the league thinks or does.


I think the Raiders situation is different. The Cowboys might get there at some point, if Jerry Jones continues to stand in the way of the team having success on the field. The world is smaller now, and there are more and more options, so I agree with you that eventually, the franchise will lose some of its luster if the team doesn't win. But the Raiders had alienated themselves from most of the football world well before Al Davis officially died (there's no better Weekend at Bernie's parallel in the world than Al Davis for the past 10 years or so). They were never as popular as the Cowboys, even when they were winning.

Whenever Jerry Jones is no longer in the picture, I think the team will still be super popular. As a matter of fact, to an extent, they're popular now in spite of Jerry Jones. A few years ago, he was voted the least likable owner in professional sports by Sports Illustrated, based on an online poll of fans in Texas. That's remarkable to me. The fans don't like the owner, but they still like the team. If he ever gets out of the way, the team might be even more popular. While he's a very good businessman and has a great grasp of marketing, those traits are not unique to him.

Lastly, I agree 100%. I'd love to see the Colts in a Primetime TV slot too, because we are a young and resilent squad whose previous string of division titles and Playoff appearances for over a decade under a different field general warrants a little consideration for more TV broadcast exposure than we currently get. It's a travesty actually.

Nice talking with you Superman. It was fun. :thmup:


Same here.
LET'S HUNT

#25 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 01:51 PM

Another Dear God for you.

Look, all your ramblings are completely meaningless to the point of this thread, which is will their game against Philly get flexed out of Sunday night? And the answer to that is a categorical no because they draw ratings. Simple as that. Is that so freaking hard to comprehend? Yes Dallas is overrated, over-hyped, and anything else you want to say about them. I completely agree. But that simply does not matter because people will tune in to watch. They are the Kardashians and the Jersey Shore of the NFL but just like those train wrecks, people watch.


I'm not doubting that the Cowboys have a large following globally jskinnz. But, I will never anoint or appoint them the prom queen of the entire National Football League. Respect is earned and in this decade the Cowboys have earned nothing concrete, tangible, or substantial. The NY Giants will crush the Cowboys and win the NFC East like they always do when it really matters. I don't glorify, amplify, or idolize a lackluster team to iconic proportions that has not achieved or accomplished anything meaningful through tooth and nail Playoff wins and SB victories.

You seem to be arguing for the inherent value of popularity. Okay fine. I am arguing for a Lombardi legacy, NFL immortality, and a SB ring as validation that a team has climb Mt. Everest and emerged lone Champion and supreme victor. I do not reward mediocrity, celebrity status without proving 1's own weight and merit, or annual franchise revenues as a NFL organization's ultimate trademark, monetary value or intrinsic provenance.

What are we up to now? 3 Dear Gods? I will collect them like cars, postage stamps, vinyl records, and drum covers. I could care less what people think. Yes, the Dallas Cowboys are popular. So what? The GB Packers are also extremely popular but at least they won a SB against the Steelers in 2011. What has Dallas done to even come close to that? Zero, zilch, nada...
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#26 jskinnz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:27 PM

I'm not doubting that the Cowboys have a large following globally jskinnz. But, I will never anoint or appoint them the prom queen of the entire National Football League. Respect is earned and in this decade the Cowboys have earned nothing concrete, tangible, or substantial. The NY Giants will crush the Cowboys and win the NFC East like they always do when it really matters. I don't glorify, amplify, or idolize a lackluster team to iconic proportions that has not achieved or accomplished anything meaningful through tooth and nail Playoff wins and SB victories.

You seem to be arguing for the inherent value of popularity. Okay fine. I am arguing for a Lombardi legacy, NFL immortality, and a SB ring as validation that a team has climb Mt. Everest and emerged lone Champion and supreme victor. I do not reward mediocrity, celebrity status without proving 1's own weight and merit, or annual franchise revenues as a NFL organization's ultimate trademark, monetary value or intrinsic provenance.

What are we up to now? 3 Dear Gods? I will collect them like cars, postage stamps, vinyl records, and drum covers. I could care less what people think. Yes, the Dallas Cowboys are popular. So what? The GB Packers are also extremely popular but at least they won a SB against the Steelers in 2011. What has Dallas done to even come close to that? Zero, zilch, nada...


You get a for the love of God on this one...

Let me ask you one simple question - for the purposes of this thread, do you think the Dallas vs. Eagles game will be flexed out of Sunday night? And please - it is a simple question that warrants a simple answer. Don't write me a book in response.

#27 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:36 PM

I'm not trying to justify this. I'm simply pointing out that it is what it is. I'm not defending it; I'm not arguing in favor of it. It's just the case. http://www.prdaily.c...orts_11785.aspx http://www.forbes.co...lion-valuation/ http://www.forbes.co...e-sports-teams/ Maybe you can't go to a remote village in a third world land and find a majority in favor of the Cowboys. But they probably don't have a favorite sports team, right? And they don't watch TV, they don't put money in advertisers pockets, they don't go to games. I don't think they're relevant when it comes to who gets put scheduled on Sunday Night Football. What you're arguing is the equivalent of saying that McDonald's shouldn't be one of the most popular food chains because their food is no-quality garbage packed with additives. Most would agree. But that doesn't change the fact that there are tens of thousands of McDonald's in over a hundred different countries. If you're ever in Qatar or Pakistan and want a Big Mac, you can find one. Not saying it's right. Just saying it is. I think the Raiders situation is different. The Cowboys might get there at some point, if Jerry Jones continues to stand in the way of the team having success on the field. The world is smaller now, and there are more and more options, so I agree with you that eventually, the franchise will lose some of its luster if the team doesn't win. But the Raiders had alienated themselves from most of the football world well before Al Davis officially died (there's no better Weekend at Bernie's parallel in the world than Al Davis for the past 10 years or so). They were never as popular as the Cowboys, even when they were winning. Whenever Jerry Jones is no longer in the picture, I think the team will still be super popular. As a matter of fact, to an extent, they're popular now in spite of Jerry Jones. A few years ago, he was voted the least likable owner in professional sports by Sports Illustrated, based on an online poll of fans in Texas. That's remarkable to me. The fans don't like the owner, but they still like the team. If he ever gets out of the way, the team might be even more popular. While he's a very good businessman and has a great grasp of marketing, those traits are not unique to him. Same here.


Superman, another intriguing debate sir. I love it! My point about flying to the dark, remote continent of Africa is to test the scope and magnitude of the Cowboys international appeal, global recognition, and popularity worldwide. Don't assume BTW that people in isolated pockets of the world have no access to fiber optic, wireless, or wifi technology either. It's probably true that they don't but that's not an absolute fact either.

Actually no, your McDonalds argument is a good one that's not the thesis I was shooting for. Yes, McDonalds is a popular fast food chain, but just because a restaurant is popular it doesn't mean that you elevate that chain to a 5 star exclusive restaurant claiming to create the most delicious and satisfying food to known to all mankind. Food pantries aren't going to create an allegiance with McDonalds to feed the the poor, disadvantaged, and homeless okay. My point is you honor talent and meaningful production over a sustained period of time via current years and decades.

The Cowboys are like a Ferrari. Fast, flashy, and devoid of any real value. All pomp, all circumstance, all hot air. While the Steelers, Patriots, Colts, Giants, Ravens, and Packers on the other hand are like a Range Rover off road vehicle or Jeep. They may get muddy, bloody, and not pretty to look at, but they win consistently when it really matters and get the Championship job done.

Don't dismiss the defiance of Al Davis in the NFL against previous NFL commissioners as a powerful motivator and universal fan base tool of united hatred against all other teams in the NFL. They are called "The Black Hole" for a reason. Every mob boss or bloodthirsty dictator will tell you that is better to be feared and hated vs revered and loved by the masses. Defiance works well among a football franchise if it is channeled correctly IMO. I am curious to see how fiscally relevant the Dallas Cowboys will be once Jerry Jones passes away though.

Have a nice day Superman. :thmup:
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#28 cmgww

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:37 PM

And...thread detailed. Nice job.
In it to win it since 1992....COLTS fan first, Manning fan 2nd

#29 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 02:51 PM

You get a for the love of God on this one...

Let me ask you one simple question - for the purposes of this thread, do you think the Dallas vs. Eagles game will be flexed out of Sunday night? And please - it is a simple question that warrants a simple answer. Don't write me a book in response.


Actually, what sparked this whole debate was your own response jskinnz and I quote: "With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night."

If you would like to thank someone personally feel free to take a look in the mirror sir. Besides, considering that Dallas is relevant to your question and all my responses directly discussed Dallas, it's not like I went completely off the reservation here sir.

"Do you think the Dallas vs. Eagles game will be flexed out of Sunday night?" No.

Sometimes, discussions evolve into different directions not initially anticipated sir. If the topic by your own admission pertains directly to Dallas, why not examine the reason for their primetime TV status? Seems relevant to me anyway.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#30 jskinnz

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:04 PM

Actually, what sparked this whole debate was your own response jskinnz and I quote: "With ratings as the name of the game, I have a really hard time seeing the Cowboys moved out of prime time, regardless of what the record of boths teams might be. I think that game is a lock to stay on Sunday night."

If you would like to thank someone personally feel free to take a look in the mirror sir. Besides, considering that Dallas is relevant to your question and all my responses directly discussed Dallas, it's not like I went completely off the reservation here sir.

"Do you think the Dallas vs. Eagles game will be flexed out of Sunday night?" No.

Sometimes, discussions evolve into different directions not initially anticipated sir. If the topic by your own admission pertains directly to Dallas, why not examine the reason for their primetime TV status? Seems relevant to me anyway.


Another Dear God for you.

#31 BrentMc11

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

Andy Reid vs Jason Garrett will be on TV...........and Mike Shanahan came tumbling after.......:)

Change is good!  

 

BrentMc11


#32 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 04:46 PM

Another Dear God for you.


All kidding aside jskinnz, but I think we are both in agreement that the Dallas Cowboys are indeed popular on a grand and over the top scale except you stop there and I, on the other hand, use this franchise as a launching point or springboard to indicate that the Dallas Cowboys cannot be idolized for a lack of Playoff production spanning nearly 16 years now; encroaching on nearly almost 2 decades of abysmal and dismal World Championship production. You don't celebrate an NFL organization that positively sucks on the field of play. Are the Browns revered? How about the Bengals? Nope.

I get what you are saying popularity is a different entity than division titles and Lombardi trophies, but at some point the Dallas Cowboys have to put up or shut up. The media crucifies Rex Ryan every year for his SB Jets prediction and never takes him seriously, yet Dallas does nothing every year and every September the media pundits and fans line up to say that this is the year for Dallas to win it all and, just like clockwork, they crash, burn, and unravel on cue. It never fails. Eventually, it becomes similar to the boy who cries wolf and nobody comes running. If a team consistently falls short year after year, what explains their appeal beyond a train wreck compulsion and fascination? Like Lebron James in the NBA, Dallas must win a ring in this decade to justify their celebrated status IMO. Until that happens, the Dallas Cowboys will remain my favorite punching bag to torment and tear to shreds as often as I have the opportunity to do so. Dallas the team I love to hate.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#33 schwamm

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 05:02 PM

All kidding aside jskinnz, but I think we are both in agreement that the Dallas Cowboys are indeed popular on a grand and over the top scale except you stop there and I, on the other hand, use this franchise as a launching point or springboard to indicate that the Dallas Cowboys cannot be idolized for a lack of Playoff production spanning nearly 16 years now; encroaching nearly almost 2 decades of abysmal and dismal World Championship production. You don't celebrate an NFL organization that positively sucks on the field of play. Are the Browns revered? How about the Bengals? Nope.

I get what you are saying popularity is a different entity than division titles and Lombardi trophies, but at some point the Dallas Cowboys have to put up or shut up. The media crucifies Rex Ryan every year for his SB Jets prediction and never takes him seriously yet Dallas does nothing every year and every September the media pundits and fans line up to say that this is the year for Dallas to win it all and, just like clockwork, they crash, burn, and unravel on cue. It never fails. Eventually, it becomes similar to the boy who cries wolf and nobody comes running. If a team consistently falls short year after year, what explains their appeal beyond a train wreck compulsion and fascination? Like Lebron James in the NBA, Dallas must win a ring in this decade to justify their celebrated status IMO. Until that happens, the Dallas will remain my favorite punching bag to torment and tear to shreds as often as I have the opportunity to do so. Dallas the team I love to hate.

Sounds similar to Rick Riley's comments about Notre Dame football earlier this year. He wanted sponsors to stop giving them money and TV stations to stop giving them sweetheart deals for airing their games. Problem is, despite the fact that their play wasn't very good for a long time, people want to watch them, and will spend money to do so.

I am a huge Fighting Irish fan, and absolutely HATE the cowboys... so the comparison isn't one I choose lightly.

The NFL, though, is first and foremost a business, so they will promote whatever they feel will enhance their product and make them the most money... ALWAYS. Whether I like it or not, the Cowboys SELL.

I am forever grateful for all the great players I've been fortunate enough to watch play the game with horseshoes on their helmets,

and I'm eagerly anticipating the opportunity to see which new Colts become the stars and fan favorites of tomorrow.


#34 The Peytonator

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

The Cowboys, Eagles, and Jets get all the attention on ESPN, and it annoys me to no end. I know they are large market and seemingly highly rated teams, but that's no reason for their extreme mediocrity to get so much attention. I know we got a lot of attention this week with Pagano's speech and the head shaving, and I loved it. Why don't they focus on the decent/good teams rather than talking about Romo's latest 4th quarter failure, or Mike Vick's 35 sacks in one game, or Tim Tebow's fake punt first down conversion?

Schwamm's comparison of the Cowboys to the Kardashians is spot on. Most people hate them, so if the majority hates them, why do they get so much air time? I can't speak for everyone but if either the Kardashians or the Cowboys are on, I turn it off. I guess I just don't get kicks on bad television/football.

#35 southwest1

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Posted 08 November 2012 - 08:14 PM

absolutely HATE the cowboys... so the comparison isn't one I choose lightly. The NFL, though, is first and foremost a business, so they will promote whatever they feel will enhance their product and make them the most money... ALWAYS. Whether I like it or not, the Cowboys SELL.

The Cowboys, Eagles, and Jets get all the attention on ESPN, and it annoys me to no end Most people hate them, so if the majority hates them, why do they get so much air time? I can't speak for everyone but if either the Kardashians or the Cowboys are on, I turn it off. I guess I just don't get kicks on bad television/football.


Thank you schwamm & the Peytonator. I know we can't change the inflated reality of the Dallas Cowboys exposure from a purely TV ratings perspective. I know that. It's like that attractive, well endowed woman we all knew in high school who could smile, bat her eye lashes, play with her hair in a seductive fashion, and always get all the attention she wanted. It does feel good to vent though.
"Invincibility lies in the defense; the possibility of victory in the attack." Sun Tzu

#36 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 11:55 AM

The week 13 Eagles/Cowboys is staying in place on SNF.
*Week 13
Sun. Dec. 2
Philadelphia Eagles at Dallas Cowboys

#37 PrincetonTiger

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 12:09 PM

The week 13 Eagles/Cowboys is staying in place on SNF.
*Week 13
Sun. Dec. 2
Philadelphia Eagles at Dallas Cowboys


really
Onward Princeton Forward Princeton

PrincetonTiger77

#38 FireJimCaldwell

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:12 PM

really


That is what I saw on PFT. I know the Cowboys have a following as others have suggested, and without knowing what games weren't protected by other networks it's hard to overly bash the decision.

THU, NOV 29 TIME (ET) Network
New Orleans at Atlanta 8:20 PM NFLN
SUN, DEC 2 TIME (ET) Network
Jacksonville at Buffalo 1:00 PM 
Seattle at Chicago 1:00 PM 
Indianapolis at Detroit 1:00 PM 
Minnesota at Green Bay 1:00 PM 
Houston at Tennessee 1:00 PM 
Carolina at Kansas City 1:00 PM 
San Francisco at St. Louis 1:00 PM 
New England at Miami 1:00 PM 
Arizona at NY Jets 1:00 PM 
Tampa Bay at Denver 4:05 PM 
Cincinnati at San Diego 4:15 PM 
Pittsburgh at Baltimore 4:15 PM 
Cleveland at Oakland 4:15 PM 
Philadelphia at Dallas 8:20 PM NBC
MON, DEC 3 TIME (ET) Network
NY Giants at Washington 8:30 PM ESPN
Byes: None


Pittsburgh/Baltimore has lost some luster with the injury to Roethlisberger, but still a better game, but then again it might be protected.
Tampa @ Denver, Minnesota @ Green Bay and Seattle @ Chicago are each battles of likely playoff teams. Indy@ Detroit might be a stretch to include in that category with the way Detroit is playing.

I doubt that each of those games are protected and to me any of them would be better replacements to Philly/Dallas. Philly/Dallas isn't quite KC/Carolina but it's nothing to showcase.

#39 lollygagger8

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 01:58 PM

I really hope the Dec 30th game stays at 1pm. My band plays the night before, so I can just keep the binge going and not pay for it until the 31st. lol

#40 Larry Horseman

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Posted 20 November 2012 - 02:26 PM

How many weeks prior to the game does the NFL have to announce a change? Isn't it two?

Also, on the Cowboys debate, they, along with Pittsburgh, are the most most popular NFL team throughout the country. They have a huge, loyal fanbase who follow them despite their lack of playoff production over the last 15+ years. That is why they play every Thanksgiving and have multiple prime time games. Why wouldn't the NFL televise a team that is going to bring in ratings whether they are good, mediocre, or terrible? The point is, the Cowboys are nationally televised on a consistent because 1) the size of their fan base (which is huge) leads to high TV ratings regardless of the team's record; and 2) they play 6 games within the NFC East, which includes three other teams with large fanbases. Record and playoff success have nothing to do with the 'Boys being televised. Historical greatness and winning the hearts of generations of fans does. I hope the Colts success over the Manning and (hopefully) Luck eras can propel the franchise to a similar level.






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