Rotoworld reports Collie Wr2..

[Indeee]

Every indication is that Collie opposite Reggie... Hilton slot when healthy... or Avery

[Fx Stryker]

As it should be. Collie is our second best receiver.

[Gavin]

Not sure how I feel about that, neither are burners downfield and I think Hilton has what it takes to start but as of now Collie is the proven guy but I would interchange them to see how Hilton does at #2 as well

[chad72]

Where one starts is not indicative of where one finishes. It is harder to rotate the safety towards the slot wideout, the safety normally helps with the outside wideout most of the time. So, if you see the safety napping, with a receiving TE like Fleener and speed of Avery or Hilton in the middle, you could get guys getting wide open in the middle of the field if you get past the nickel CB.

The key is, the slot wideout, especially the slight ones like T.Y.Hilton, need to learn to get down REAL FAST when it comes to shielding hits from LBs in the middle. Collie is 200 lbs and he learnt the lessons of not getting down fast enough the hard way, Hilton is at least 20 lbs smaller, so that is the first thing he needs to learn to last long in the league.

[Smitto]

Yea thats not set in stone by any means.... Arians thinking from wallace to look behind him collie? Nahhh.... i like collie but wayne will need help and i dont think he can provide that.... I think thatll change by the end of preseason

[CR91]

i still think we'll see avery outside more then collie

[ColtJ82]

i still think we'll see avery outside more then collie

I agree. If you watch Mike Wallace last year, most sets have him on the outside. The only thing I can think is that maybe Arians is trying to keep the speed in the middle of the field to help Luck. If Luck's arm strength is an issue, throwing to the middle is safer than throwing outside. That is the only logic I can see not having Collie in the slot (or it is to protect Collie's head).

[GrizzColt]

Collie isn't slow. He has average WR speed, good hands, good route running, experience and he has been practicing w/ Luck. That puts him ahead of a guy like Avery in every category but speed. Now, if we get Mike Wallace, that would change for sure. Avery has a lot more to prove than Collie.

[21isSuperman]

Collie has shown he can do well outside and in the slot. I don't think it's a big deal to see him lined up on the outside right now. He will probably be moving around a lot

[Gavin]

I expect alot of shifts moving wide receivers and Tight Ends around to gain an advantage just because a wide receiver is listed at a particular place on the depth chart dont mean much, on a side note I was pretty pleased and impressed with what I saw in Kris Anderson, I hope he continues to improve and impress, hes a tall speed guy who has good hands

[Superman]

I agree. If you watch Mike Wallace last year, most sets have him on the outside. The only thing I can think is that maybe Arians is trying to keep the speed in the middle of the field to help Luck. If Luck's arm strength is an issue, throwing to the middle is safer than throwing outside. That is the only logic I can see not having Collie in the slot (or it is to protect Collie's head).

Donnie Avery is no Mike Wallace. I agree that Avery should be on the outside when he's on the field, but I'd much rather see Collie staying on the field in 2 receiver sets, because he's a better all around receiver than Avery.

[Indyboy757]

Well first off Luck wont have any issues with arm strenght the formations are all about matchups. I dont think we will see alot of Collie in the slot unless we do pursue Wallace but thats up to the steelers. I dont feel we have a legitimate #2WR opp Wayne, Avery has had production in the past with the Rams but is best suited in the slot.

[GoColts8818]

I think till someone proves they can be counted on this makes the most sense. I know Avery has NFL experience but he's new the Colts and has to proven he can over come his injuries. Wayne and Collie are known and frankly with a good QB Collie looked like he was on his way to becoming a star in this league. Let's see if Luck can develop the same kinda chemistry with Collie that Manning did. If he does Collie and Wayne will be a deadly combo. With that said if one of the rookies or Avery proves we can count on them we might move Collie back to the slot. It's day one of camp things can and will change. Remember out starting o-line last year in the first pre-season game including a guy who didn't end making the roster and Diem at a different poistion as just an example. If Brazil, Hilton, or Avery prove they can handle being outside I wouldn't be shocked to see Collie go back to the slot but Collie is a monster they might not mess with success as well. The Colts have some options and that's not a bad thing.

The one draw back to Collie and Wayne is the lack of the home run threat. There is a role to be one there and frankly I think the Colts will count on Fleener a little bit to help in that area. No he's not the same thing as a deep threat WR would be but like how we watched Clark stretch defenses Fleener and his chemistry with Luck can probably do the samething but both will also be making the transition to the NFL as well so it might take a little time for the chemistry to develop.

[funktacious2]

Collie isn't perhaps the ideal deep threat, but he burned some guys on multiple occasions today. I think he's a great No. 2, but I can see him replaced by a speedster for some plays, or moved to the slot for some plays too. Though a lot of drills favor the offense, I thought our offense looked pretty dang smooth out there. Not saying I expected anything bad, but I did expect a few more drops and some more sloppy play (being the first day back since mini camp that is).

And then Hilton is another issue. I certainly didn't catch every play, but I don't recall seeing much of him, but my memory kind of runs together slightly thanks to a lot of rotations and pretty darn hot day. I don't know if they're resting him because of injury related reasons, or reasons pertaining to his role, or maybe he's just not earning the reps. Info from anyone who's been following his progress better than mine will be appreciated. Otherwise he'll be one of my top watches when I return tomorrow. (Hey! I have some days off, okay! lol)

[Hans Moleman]

Donnie Avery is no Mike Wallace. I agree that Avery should be on the outside when he's on the field, but I'd much rather see Collie staying on the field in 2 receiver sets, because he's a better all around receiver than Avery.

Safeties are getting bigger and slower in an effort to combat teams using big, athletic TE's...to exploit that trend, I'm a big fan of using speed guys up the seam to try to break the top off on deep middle routes because it'll create more matchup problems that way. Those safeties need to worry about big guys like Fleener and Allen, so a blazer like Avery can be a great way to capitalize on it. Not many can cover both big TE's and speed demons. And if opponents put their fastest DB on the outside, as teams generally do, make him guard Fleener and beat them on the size mismatch.

I really hope we get creative in our passing game because we have the talent to cause teams matchup problems. I don't care who the roster calls WR or slot WR, because I expect to see everyone lining up differently as the matchups dictate. I know we'll be wasting Fleener if we only use him as a traditional TE and don't line him outside or split off of the line, for example.

[Michael Lebron]

TY will be special, but Avery will be in with both Wayne and Collie. Avery looked great in Mini Camp and even better yesterday. He could not be covered in 1 on 1 and he ran great routes in 7 on 7 and 11 on 11. He caught anything and everything thrown close to him.

[Superman]

Safeties are getting bigger and slower in an effort to combat teams using big, athletic TE's...to exploit that trend, I'm a big fan of using speed guys up the seam to try to break the top off on deep middle routes because it'll create more matchup problems that way. Those safeties need to worry about big guys like Fleener and Allen, so a blazer like Avery can be a great way to capitalize on it. Not many can cover both big TE's and speed demons. And if opponents put their fastest DB on the outside, as teams generally do, make him guard Fleener and beat them on the size mismatch.

I really hope we get creative in our passing game because we have the talent to cause teams matchup problems. I don't care who the roster calls WR or slot WR, because I expect to see everyone lining up differently as the matchups dictate. I know we'll be wasting Fleener if we only use him as a traditional TE and don't line him outside or split off of the line, for example.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just don't think Avery would make a good slot receiver. He's never played that position in the NFL, and he has inconsistent hands. His speed is an asset, obviously, but that's not enough. Slot receiver is a tricky position, especially when you are catching balls on hot reads. We drafted Hilton, and in a perfect world, he comes along really quickly and plays well. But his size is concerning for someone who will be catching balls in the middle of the field.

Use Fleener all over the field, for sure. He's a great weapon.

But I think Collie gets sold short when he's designated as a "slot receiver," as if he can only play in the slot. He has shown that he can produce wherever you line him up, he can run all the routes, and he can catch every ball. That's why I think he should be the guy who stays on the field, rather than Avery.

[Slick_Rick]

Don't worry about Lucks arms strength. As many have said, depth chart rankings mean little. I believe I remember hearing Arians say we will be using multiple sets with different wrs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMz9nwy7yYc

[TKnight24]

As MOST of you have already Stated, he's probably just #2 on the Depth Chart. I'm not saying Collie is a Bum.... but I feel that he's MORE Productive in Slot than he would be at #2. Let Avery be #2 most of the Time

[Hans Moleman]

I agree with a lot of what you're saying. I just don't think Avery would make a good slot receiver. He's never played that position in the NFL, and he has inconsistent hands. His speed is an asset, obviously, but that's not enough. Slot receiver is a tricky position, especially when you are catching balls on hot reads. We drafted Hilton, and in a perfect world, he comes along really quickly and plays well. But his size is concerning for someone who will be catching balls in the middle of the field.

Use Fleener all over the field, for sure. He's a great weapon.

But I think Collie gets sold short when he's designated as a "slot receiver," as if he can only play in the slot. He has shown that he can produce wherever you line him up, he can run all the routes, and he can catch every ball. That's why I think he should be the guy who stays on the field, rather than Avery.

I agree with you on Avery...when you think of what goes into a prototype slot WR, Avery's not that kind of player when it comes to making hot reads, hands, and toughness. That's why I don't think we'll be having him do what traditional slot WR's do, but we could get a big mismatch from a scheme standpoint if we use him there for certain things, like a deep post over the middle. We'll just have to play to his strengths, and I think we'll see both Collie and Avery spend time outside and in the slot when it's all said and done. Arians is a WR guy and he'll put them in a position to make plays.

I also am with you that Collie gets sold short on the outside. I think he'll prove this year that he's a quality WR and not just a product of Peyton.

[Hans Moleman]

Don't worry about Lucks arms strength. As many have said, depth chart rankings mean little. I believe I remember hearing Arians say we will be using multiple sets with different wrs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMz9nwy7yYc

If Luck's arm is strong enough to be overthrowing Avery on deep routes, I don't think anyone should still be sweating that.

[Slick_Rick]

If Luck's arm is strong enough to be overthrowing Avery on deep routes, I don't think anyone should still be sweating that.

Very much agreed.

[Gavin]

Avery is a speed demon who has decent hands not real good and certainly not great, I think T.Y. Hilton was the more impressive, He seems to be just as fast with better hands, also I like Kris Adams, He looks to bring speed, size, good hands and a good route runner

[MattyIce]

Lest us not forget, Collie is 1 concussion from calling it a career. He got lucky last year as nothing was thrown well enough to lead him into trouble. But I would be hesitant to rely on Collie being a foundation guy in the offense for years to come. He may be WR2, but I bet he is Lucks 3rd-4th Option.

[Superman]

Lest us not forget, Collie is 1 concussion from calling it a career. He got lucky last year as nothing was thrown well enough to lead him into trouble. But I would be hesitant to rely on Collie being a foundation guy in the offense for years to come. He may be WR2, but I bet he is Lucks 3rd-4th Option.

[Gavin]

I dont think Collie will be #2 option but that has noithing to do with past concussions, that has everything to do with our two big speedy athletic Tight Ends as well as change of Offensive Philosophy, Collie has done well in Training Camp but I would expect nothing less from him, he has gotten his fair share of targets

[Superman]

I agree with you on Avery...when you think of what goes into a prototype slot WR, Avery's not that kind of player when it comes to making hot reads, hands, and toughness. That's why I don't think we'll be having him do what traditional slot WR's do, but we could get a big mismatch from a scheme standpoint if we use him there for certain things, like a deep post over the middle. We'll just have to play to his strengths, and I think we'll see both Collie and Avery spend time outside and in the slot when it's all said and done. Arians is a WR guy and he'll put them in a position to make plays.

I also am with you that Collie gets sold short on the outside. I think he'll prove this year that he's a quality WR and not just a product of Peyton.

If we're gonna use Avery in the slot to go upfield and create space, or against a mismatch on an out pattern, that's a nice little wrinkle. But like you say, the traditional slot receiver responsibilities don't really mesh with his skill set. To me, he's a less physical version of Garcon, who maybe runs some routes a little better. But I think he belongs on the outside.

I don't care where we use Collie; I think he can do whatever we need him to. He's not gonna take the top off the defense, but he's not "slow" either, which is how he's sometimes described. But I expect Collie to get more plays than every receiver not named Reggie Wayne. So if we're in a two receiver set, I expect it to be Reggie and Austin, not Reggie and Donnie out of some misinformed notion that Collie can only play the slot. I wanted to see us do this back in 2010, especially after Collie started a couple games in Garcon's place and did well. Wasn't that big of a deal because we were in 3-wide so often, but Collie was clearly the better player in 2010. Then the concussions happened.

[GoColts8818]

Lest us not forget, Collie is 1 concussion from calling it a career. He got lucky last year as nothing was thrown well enough to lead him into trouble. But I would be hesitant to rely on Collie being a foundation guy in the offense for years to come. He may be WR2, but I bet he is Lucks 3rd-4th Option.

Every player is one concussion away from calling it a career. You just don't worry about that. Frankly moving outside rather than playing in the slot should cut down on his chances of getting "thrown" into a defender. it's guy that play that slot that tend to take hits like that. Guys outside take fewer hits like that.

Also Clark had the exact same issue with concussions that Collie did in 2007. A full off-season to heal and a new helmet later he didn't have concussion issues anymore. Could be Collie will have the same luck. Also as we saw in the Pats game you don't have to take a violent hit to get a concussion. People can't even pin point the hit that did it to him in the Pats game all it takes is getting hit at all and you can get one. Frankly Collie's issues were probably that he didn't give the concussions long enough to heal before playing again. The full off-season probably did him some good and rather he took a nasty hit or not last year it's good that he didn't suffer one last year.

[MattyIce]

Thats a very anecdotal and empircal data inconsistent rebuttal. Whatever we "feel" may mitigate his chances against subsequent concussions is simply not supported by the science. The point I wanted to relay was this fact, and that inside or out, he is even a mild concussion away from being out of football and they should plan accordingly.

[Mameluc]

i have also heard some nice things on Avery, so i agree (and i really like avery to be honest so im biased, i liked him on STL before injury and was thrilled when we got him), i think 2 WR sets would be Wayne and Collie but when we are on 3 WR sets and Avery is on the field, i really see us moving collie back to slot and let Avery on the outside

[oldunclemark]

Do you want more speed in the slot or on the outside..

..and why?

[BlueShoeBass]

My first post.Been on here for years and joined today. I think Austin has a great chance for a very good year.I get so tired of the talking heads on the NFL Network saying that Wayne is the only weapon that Luck has.

[Superman]

Thats a very anecdotal and empircal data inconsistent rebuttal. Whatever we "feel" may mitigate his chances against subsequent concussions is simply not supported by the science. The point I wanted to relay was this fact, and that inside or out, he is even a mild concussion away from being out of football and they should plan accordingly.

Do you want him to retire? He's a football player. I'm sure he knows the risks. He has commented on it in the past, about how he discussed continuing to play with his family, and here he is.

It's true that a player who has suffered concussions in the past is at risk for greater damage with each successive incident. So if Collie suffered a relatively moderate concussion now, there would be greater cause for concern than someone who has never had a serious incident in the past. But there's nothing I've read that indicates or even suggests that a person who has suffered concussions in the past is at greater risk for a concussion moving forward, so long as there are no post-concussion symptoms lingering.

Seeing as how it's been a year and a half since Collie's last reported concussion, and he just finished an entire season without incident, I think it's safe to assume that his symptoms are gone at this point.

I understand the concern with Collie; the concussions were scary. Especially because it just seemed to keep happening every time he stepped on the field. I don't think the Colts handled the situation properly, and I think if it happened now, it would be handled with much greater care. There's no way Collie should have been on the field two weeks after that hit against the Eagles. There's been a lot of speculation that he actually suffered another concussion against the Patriots, but it seems likely that he was still experiencing post-concussion symptoms from the previous hit, and being on the field and taking a little contact exacerbated his condition.

Regardless, since it's been so long since the last incident, and since he has a full year under his belt, it seems strange that people continue to harp on this. Like GC8818 says, every player is a concussion away from his career being over. Or a blown knee, or a broken neck. They keep going out there and playing though, knowing the risks. I think it's fair point out that Collie has incidents in his past, but it's kind of extreme to suggest that the concussions he suffered a year and a half ago are going to hold him back.

Edit: Here's the thread where we discussed this a little more in depth. Some good links there as well.

[GoColts8818]

Thats a very anecdotal and empircal data inconsistent rebuttal. Whatever we "feel" may mitigate his chances against subsequent concussions is simply not supported by the science. The point I wanted to relay was this fact, and that inside or out, he is even a mild concussion away from being out of football and they should plan accordingly.

Any Concussion can end all players career rather than you've had one before or not. Not every player that has had a history of concussions has them their whole careers. Again I gave a real example of what happened with Clark. Clark admitted in later interviews that doctors told him that the full off-season probably helped him heal. The fact that they are now making teams hold players out longer due to concussions seems to suggest that there is something to the idea that it takes longer than first thought to fully heal from concussions. So it could be Collie has fully healed from it. Hopefully he has and not just because I like him as a player but because I don't want his life to be ruined by them. With that said though I am sure Collie is well aware of the risks that come with playing football all players are. If they are willing to take that risk it's not your place or my place or anyone who isn't his family or doctor's place to tell him he can't. I am sure that if there was real concerns that Collie was in real danger he would have never been cleared to play.

Also playing outside does reduce the risk of taking a big hit. Those big hits come from going over the middle and being laid out by safeties. You don't see that nearly as much on the outside. That's why you hear people talk about guys being scared to go over the middle. So yes playing outside should help reduce this.

The only way that Collie is going to 100% remove the chance of getting hurt again is by not playing anymore. I don't think he's going to do that and if he doesn't want too and he wants to take the risk of playing he's a big boy. I am sure he knows the risks involved and is making the decision HE wants too. We aren't talking about a kid here we are talking about an adult who is fully capable of making his own decision of what he wants to do with his life.

I don't want to see Collie hurt again but if Collie is willing to play great i am going to support him rather than worrying about what COULD happen to him because fact is any player in the NFL is just one hit away from having his career ended.

Also we don't know if he is one mild concussion or not away from being out. He could have another one and come back again we don't know. We also don't know if he's going to get one. Like I said before any player can get a concussion on any play. So I really doubt the Colts are going to hold him back because they are scared of injury if that was the case they would have to hold back every player.

[JimJaime]

The key is, the slot wideout, especially the slight ones like T.Y.Hilton, need to learn to get down REAL FAST when it comes to shielding hits from LBs in the middle. Collie is 200 lbs and he learnt the lessons of not getting down fast enough the hard way, Hilton is at least 20 lbs smaller, so that is the first thing he needs to learn to last long in the league.

Huh? Get down fast as in catch and hit the turf? No YAC?? If so I 100% disagree for proof a SMALL slot WR can take a hit and keep on going look up Welker - Wes.

[TKnight24]

Do you want more speed in the slot or on the outside..

..and why?

Outside. Put Avery on the Outside. He draws the Safeties Attention, while Collie goes Underneath over the LB's for a Big Gain in the Middle. Just Simple Math lol

[TKnight24]

Huh? Get down fast as in catch and hit the turf? No YAC?? If so I 100% disagree for proof a SMALL slot WR can take a hit and keep on going look up Welker - Wes.

I think the Slot WR should be able to take a Hit considering the Fact that most of their Routes go across the middle

[MattyIce]

I think both of your expansive replies are well versed and make a great case why Collie should keep playing.

However, that was not the point I was trying to make which was that the organization should plan accordingly, In part because there are several studies and reports that conclude, successive concussions are a self fulfilling progression to the increased susceptibility of entering the concuss state with less amount of force to the head and neck.

He is a grown man, and knows his body better than us. I would like the organization to be in front of, and not behind the problem of having adequate talented back-ups of skill positions, like they have historically proven to be in the past few seasons.

Thank You, and this should really not elicit any further novels.

[Superman]

I think both of your expansive replies are well versed and make a great case why Collie should keep playing.

However, that was not the point I was trying to make which was that the organization should plan accordingly, In part because there are several studies and reports that conclude, successive concussions are a self fulfilling progression to the increased susceptibility of entering the concuss state with less amount of force to the head and neck.

He is a grown man, and knows his body better than us. I would like the organization to be in front of, and not behind the problem of having adequate talented back-ups of skill positions, like they have historically proven to be in the past few seasons.

Thank You, and this should really not elicit any further novels.

:: rolls eyes ::

Anyways, I like that the front office brought in several receivers this offseason, and committed to two tight ends. I really like Collie, but if he isn't able to stay on the field, I think we have other options. TY Hilton is a really exciting prospect.