Colts to use two, even three TEs

[HarassedOffTheSite]

http://profootballta...ree-tight-ends/

“It is a match-up nightmare,” Pagano said Saturday, via comments circulated by the team. “Coming off of the AFC Championship game, nobody knew better than the Ravens going into that game with the two guys [Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez] that [the Patriots] have. It is across the league. You can see it more and more every year.

“You can choose to put a defensive back on them, and they will be undersized, they will get outmuscled and they will get ‘big-boyed’ for the ball. Then you can put a safety or a linebacker on them and they can’t run with them. So we feel like the two guys that we added, and Dominique [Jones] is a physical presence, that guy is 260 pounds and moving around really well. It is a match-up nightmare for any defense.”

The two guys the Colts added are Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen, taken in the second-round and third-round, respectively, of last weekend’s draft.

Quarterback Andrew Luck took it an extra step. “With three tight ends, do you put an extra safety in [the box] and try to stop the run or do you leave your regular defense in?” Luck said. “How do you do it? How do you match-up with those guys? Do you put a linebacker on them to cover them when they split out wide? So I think it creates mismatches.”

[CaliGal12]

It doesn't matter what you put on the field. Andrew has lazer eyes and response time, and will always choose the best play based on defensive response. I do like the Luck to Fleener connection..... too good to be true that they will remain together. The Cardinal fan certainly knows this combo so well. Everyone else will grow to love it too. And Fleener is a big guy, strong and fast.

[GoColts8818]

It doesn't matter what you put on the field. Andrew has lazer eyes and response time, and will always choose the best play based on defensive response. I do like the Luck to Fleener connection..... too good to be true that they will remain together. The Cardinal fan certainly knows this combo so well. Everyone else will grow to love it too. And Fleener is a big guy, strong and fast.

welcome to the board CaliGal12 I can't help but wonder if a certain QB didn't bring you with him, not that there is anything wrong with that! You seem to know your stuff and a poster like that is always welcome. We can use the low down on our new Colts.

[Fr33UpFr33ney]

Watch that Stanford USC game. They ran lots of 3 TE sets, and they were 80% run. I was a Trojan fan, and I think I re-missed that memory to the back of my brain because I didn't notice how much they did it until I saw a replay, scouting Fleener.

It's very effective, especially against 4-3 teams. All you need is a RB that isn't afraid to pound for that extra yard.

[CR91]

they must really like dom jones

[coltsfanmilyman]

Watch that Stanford USC game. They ran lots of 3 TE sets, and they were 80% run. I was a Trojan fan, and I think I re-missed that memory to the back of my brain because I didn't notice how much they did it until I saw a replay, scouting Fleener.

It's very effective, especially against 4-3 teams. All you need is a RB that isn't afraid to pound for that extra yard.

Like the ones we have in Carter and the New guy Ballard. Does that leave Brown as the home run hitter? Between the tackle runners.

[21isSuperman]

3 TE sets? Trying to one-up the Pats? Pagano's keeping the rivalry alive!

[#12]

It doesn't matter what you put on the field. Andrew has lazer eyes and response time, and will always choose the best play based on defensive response.

This is the greatest similarity I see to Manning. If someone is open, Luck will find him.

[BrentMc11]

Good stuff. Thanks for the post. I was intrigued by the Jones pick-up. Big...athletic....do we care that he played at Shepherd? I don't. There have been other players found in the small colleges and Arena Leagues. If Luck hits him between the numbers and he holds onto the ball it is a win/win.....

If some of the video gurus can post some action of Dominique Jones it would be appreciated. We know Fleener and Allen will be fine.

[Bleedin Blue]

3 TE sets? Trying to one-up the Pats? Pagano's keeping the rivalry alive!

This has me thinking that we're going to run the ball a lot more also which is fine by me. It will help to give Luck time to adjust to the NFL when the plays are closer to 50/50 pass/run. I just hope our RB's can stay healthy this year.

[Gavin]

if Brown is still at his listed 210lbs that he is on on this Colts site I would like to see if he can put on about 10lbs of muscle maybe 15 I dont think he would lose any quickness

[funktacious2]

After reading the comments on that link I'm now convinced that nobody outside these forums knows that Blair White is no longer on our team. xD I even remember some NFLN guy mentioning him in some video I watched earlier this week.

[ReMeDy]

What I don't get is if we were so obsessed with going with a TE system, why did we ditch Clark? So he was a bit banged up and dropped a few passes. We could have kept him and saved either our 2nd or 3rd round pick on something else.

[bahhummbug]

Good stuff. Thanks for the post. I was intrigued by the Jones pick-up. Big...athletic....do we care that he played at Shepherd? I don't. There have been other players found in the small colleges and Arena Leagues. If Luck hits him between the numbers and he holds onto the ball it is a win/win.....

If some of the video gurus can post some action of Dominique Jones it would be appreciated. We know Fleener and Allen will be fine.

[GrizzColt]

A lot of Steeler fans seem to think that Arian's play calling will be our limiting factor, not so much the 3 TE system. Other fans, if you read pro football talk commenters(which i shouldn't) believe our 2 TE's aren't as talented as the Pat's, so it won't be successful. Most systems work if you have the right people in place but the trump card in the NFL is always the QB. If you get a franchise QB, you are almost assured of success regardless of the system.

[BrentMc11]

Thank you bahhummbug. I know it is a small school, but he seems to have soft hands and some escapability. Looks particularly intriguing in short yardage screens.

He had been doing well in the new Arena League. He will get his chance. Looks fast once he gets 260 pounds with a head of steam. While he may become 'camp casualty,' worth a look IMO. As mentioned above, Pags envisions match-up nightmares.....I can see it happening....throw in a twist of Reggie and a dash of Collie.....we shall see. Thanks again for posting the video!!

[BrentMc11]

A lot of Steeler fans seem to think that Arian's play calling will be our limiting factor, not so much the 3 TE system. Other fans, if you read pro football talk commenters(which i shouldn't) believe our 2 TE's aren't as talented as the Pat's, so it won't be successful. Most systems work if you have the right people in place but the trump card in the NFL is always the QB. If you get a franchise QB, you are almost assured of success regardless of the system.

This is true GrizzColt. Arians prefers balance, but also indicates readily he will throw it 40 times a game. That was one of the reasons Steeler management were not re-signing him...so he retired...making Big Ben upset. Good point!!!

[subvet]

http://profootballta...ree-tight-ends/

“It is a match-up nightmare,” Pagano said Saturday, via comments circulated by the team. “Coming off of the AFC Championship game, nobody knew better than the Ravens going into that game with the two guys [Rob Gronkowski and Aaron Hernandez] that [the Patriots] have. It is across the league. You can see it more and more every year.

“You can choose to put a defensive back on them, and they will be undersized, they will get outmuscled and they will get ‘big-boyed’ for the ball. Then you can put a safety or a linebacker on them and they can’t run with them. So we feel like the two guys that we added, and Dominique [Jones] is a physical presence, that guy is 260 pounds and moving around really well. It is a match-up nightmare for any defense.”

The two guys the Colts added are Coby Fleener and Dwayne Allen, taken in the second-round and third-round, respectively, of last weekend’s draft.

Quarterback Andrew Luck took it an extra step. “With three tight ends, do you put an extra safety in [the box] and try to stop the run or do you leave your regular defense in?” Luck said. “How do you do it? How do you match-up with those guys? Do you put a linebacker on them to cover them when they split out wide? So I think it creates mismatches.”

It's the game Manning created and used so successfully with short passes to slot receivers instead of a short run game. And like with the running game sometimes the short gainers bust out for long yards, it's not new but it is proven and I'm glad to see it still being used with Luck.

[Jindrake]

What I don't get is if we were so obsessed with going with a TE system, why did we ditch Clark? So he was a bit banged up and dropped a few passes. We could have kept him and saved either our 2nd or 3rd round pick on something else.

Because Clark hasn't been the same since he got injured.

[BrentMc11]

Because Clark hasn't been the same since he got injured.

And he must still be or he might/would have had a look ala Joseph Addai.....or maybe he is done and wants to go home.

[CaliGal12]

Please do watch the USC Stanford games again, for the last THREE years. You'll find that the Cardinal, under Luck's field general play worked those TE's and the running backs to THREE wins over the Trojans. You'll also see that Andrew doesn't just sit by and let the game pass him by. He'll run it himself if needed, (for the final OT x3 game ending TD), he'll tackle a defensive player fumble recovery and make that guy wonder "what the heck was that", and subtly but effectively play the run game. Even with Andrews record breaking pass year, we only threw the ball about 40% of the time. He didn't want the game to be about him. He wants the game to be what it needs to be to win. This is the only reason he didn't win the Heisman (2 years in a row BTW), because he refused to stack his stats.....it was always about the team W. Selfless competitor, but a true field general like no other, nonetheless. I'm afraid you'll find this QB will surpass "the beloved" fairly quick, but just as humble.

[CaliGal12]

welcome to the board CaliGal12 I can't help but wonder if a certain QB didn't bring you with him, not that there is anything wrong with that! You seem to know your stuff and a poster like that is always welcome. We can use the low down on our new Colts.

Thanks! Yes, I'm a Colts convert fan from Stanford. Very seldom do you find a player (or players) worthy of following on to the pros with a fierce passion. I've found mine. Ask away if you have questions...... I may need to ask a lot of questions too....as I'll be heading to Indy to partake in a game or two......I know nothing about the city!

[ColtsLegacy]

I'm afraid you'll find this QB will surpass "the beloved" fairly quick, but just as humble.

I'm sorry, you had me up to this point. Have you ever seen Peyton play? We're talking about arguably the greatest QB of all time.

I'm extremely excited for the Luck possibilities but I'm also not delusional enough to think he's going to "surpass" Peyton anytime soon.

[Carlos Danger]

This has me thinking that we're going to run the ball a lot more also which is fine by me. It will help to give Luck time to adjust to the NFL when the plays are closer to 50/50 pass/run. I just hope our RB's can stay healthy this year.

I do think that we will make a sincere attempt to run more effectively. I also think that our ability to do so will be greatly improved with the beef on the OL. However, I don't think that the D is going to stop anybody this year. That will mean that Luck is going to be throwing the ball a TON in the second half of games all year. I doubt we end up with anything close to 50/50 pass/run. The exception will be if we find ourselves with a vastly improved ground game, setting up the PA and eating clock early in games. I'll keep my fingers crossed, but (I said it 945,875th) look for #12 to put up insane numbers in 2012 due to the lack of continuity and talent on defense.

[jvan1973]

I'm afraid you'll find this QB will surpass "the beloved" fairly quick, but just as humble.

The odds of that are slim... Im excited to watch Luck, but to think he will surpass Peyton any time in the near future is crazy..

[Carlos Danger]

And he must still be or he might/would have had a look ala Joseph Addai.....or maybe he is done and wants to go home.

or to Hollywood to resume his acting career, perhaps? I am still waiting for the next installment of the Naked Gun franchise... Steve Carell as Sergeant Frank Drebin... Dallas in the O.J. role. any takers???

[CaliGal12]

I'm sorry, you had me up to this point. Have you ever seen Peyton play? We're talking about arguably the greatest QB of all time.

I'm extremely excited for the Luck possibilities but I'm also not delusional enough to think he's going to "surpass" Peyton anytime soon.

Yes I have and I truly like Peyton (so much better than any other active QB). But, guess who helped Andrew develop as a kid, besides his own dad? Peyton and Archie Manning. Andrew attended the QB camp that Archie and Peyton had, every single summer until he entered college, then they hired him to be a QB coach alongside Peyton and Eli. Andrew watches more film than likely any other player....that's how he has learned first hand from Peyton. So, just don't be surprised is all I'm saying.

[FireJimCaldwell]

Is there an emoticon for shaking my head?

If not.

Can't go wrong with Bunk.

[NWGirl227]

Pagano would be smart to use multi-tight end sets. yes, it creates match-up problems for opposing defenses and forces them to into mismatches and to adjust. furthermore, coach Shaw and Andrew (basically an on-field offensive coordinator) ran their three te set with Coby, Levine and Zach here on the farm last year over 80 percent of the time. if you're looking for familiarity for your qb (which seems to be the case), then that would naturally seem to translate to this year's offensive scheme.

[alwaysright]

The odds of that are slim... Im excited to watch Luck, but to think he will surpass Peyton any time in the near future is crazy..

I believe Luck will surpass Peyton fairly soon. I believe he's going to be more clutch and will be even better than Peyton. Peyton was great, but he also could never seal the deal many times. Luck will win more rings for sure.

[jvan1973]

I believe Luck will surpass Peyton fairly soon. I believe he's going to be more clutch and will be even better than Peyton. Peyton was great, but he also could never seal the deal many times. Luck will win more rings for sure.

Contrary to your screen name, i highly doubt any of what you just said

[alwaysright]

Contrary to your screen name, i highly doubt any of what you just said

Well you'll just have to get used to it, because i always am right; Not my fault I am. It's actually sad that you are one of those Colts fans that haven't moved on and will be watching all of Denver's games next year instead of the Colts, and would bid on Peyton's underwear on ebay if given the chance. touche

[dacoats]

Thanks! Yes, I'm a Colts convert fan from Stanford. Very seldom do you find a player (or players) worthy of following on to the pros with a fierce passion. I've found mine. Ask away if you have questions...... I may need to ask a lot of questions too....as I'll be heading to Indy to partake in a game or two......I know nothing about the city!

Out with the Manning bandwagon fans and in with the new Luck bandwagon fans, lol

I think we should be the first team ever to run a 4 TE even if it is stupid and doesn't work, we can always say we were the first

Look out for TY Hilton, that brutha is a baller

Daedge banned me so I hope he sees this posts!

[a06cc]

Lets be calm about all of this. I like the idea, but it can be stopped. Big body doesn't mean anything. Passes can get under cut. Anything can happen. Lets wait for games to be played first.

[ColtsLegacy]

I believe Luck will surpass Peyton fairly soon. I believe he's going to be more clutch and will be even better than Peyton. Peyton was great, but he also could never seal the deal many times. Luck will win more rings for sure.

The chances of Luck "surpassing" Manning are about as likely as me getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery on the same day.

Again, I am excited for Luck, but I'm also rational. One NFL team drafting two of the greatest QBs of all time back to back (with the latter being better than the former) is practically a statistical impossibility. I think Luck will someday be an elite QB in the NFL, but you're comparing him to Peyton Manning, not Ben Roethlisberger.

Kind of pointless to argue with the Luck fan boys (and girls), huh? I sure as heck hope Luck is every bit as good as you guys say, because Colts fans will be a very lucky fortunate bunch.

[coltsguy510]

The chances of Luck "surpassing" Manning are about as likely as me getting struck by lightning and winning the lottery on the same day.

Again, I am excited for Luck, but I'm also rational. One NFL team drafting two of the greatest QBs of all time back to back (with the latter being better than the former) is practically a statistical impossibility. I think Luck will someday be an elite QB in the NFL, but you're comparing him to Peyton Manning, not Ben Roethlisberger.

Kind of pointless to argue with the Luck fan boys (and girls), huh? I sure as heck hope Luck is every bit as good as you guys say, because Colts fans will be a very lucky fortunate bunch.

I know what you are saying, but I think that you are underestimating Luck a little. It is not as impossible as you winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same day. He is the most heralded QB to come out in 30 years. He has the potential to be as good or better than Peyton. But I guess we will just have to wait and see.

[ColtsLegacy]

I know what you are saying, but I think that you are underestimating Luck a little. It is not as impossible as you winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same day. He is the most heralded QB to come out in 30 years. He has the potential to be as good or better than Peyton. But I guess we will just have to wait and see.

If saying Luck won't be as good as arguably the greatest QB of all time (the greatest, imo) is underestimating him, then, yes, I am underestimating him.

[coltsguy510]

If saying Luck won't be as good as arguably the greatest QB of all time (the greatest, imo) is underestimating him, then, yes, I am underestimating him.

OK you just owned me I give you credit. But he has the potential to be.

[BayAreaBronco]

If saying Luck won't be as good as arguably the greatest QB of all time (the greatest, imo) is underestimating him, then, yes, I am underestimating him.

Absolutely!

I love Andrew as much as anyone. After all, I'm here because of him, as well as Peyton is now playing for my team. I believe he will be a good QB, even a great one, but it's unrealistic to expect him to be as good or better than Peyton. It's like maybe saying Brock Osweiler is going to be better than John Elway. I'm not going there. At least not yet. I like Andrew as a person so much that I have to check myself not to oversell him.

There are so many factors in football. Team being the most important one. I've been saying Steve Young would have been the best QB ever had some things been different. And John Elway's wasted years playing for Dan Reeves... I'm just looking forward to seeing what kind of team the Colts will grow into.

[Manning1815]

I know what you are saying, but I think that you are underestimating Luck a little. It is not as impossible as you winning the lottery and getting struck by lightning on the same day. He is the most heralded QB to come out in 30 years. He has the potential to be as good or better than Peyton. But I guess we will just have to wait and see.

You know what it means when you say he has the "potential" to be as good as peyton? It means he hasn't done it yet! I could potentially be better than peyton in two years. That being said, I am a faithful colts fan and I hope andrew excels in every way possible.