Is the Defense Pathetically Bad?

[Superman]

1 minute ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I think idea that this defense is also cheaper to build is a myth. Sure, teams have shown that you can build the secondary with 3rd rounders and even later. However, if you look at the Bucs when they were dominant. Saap, Booger, Rice and Brooks were all 1st rounder. I have always believed that running this defense, at an elite level, requires a lot of talent especially along the D line. Just my take

 

I don't think the argument was ever that the defense is cheaper to build. The argument was that the secondary requires less investment, not the entire defense. Like you said, the DL is always going to be emphasized.

 

Specific to the secondary, I'm in the minority on this, but I think you only get so much benefit from having great corners. Everyone plays a ton of zone defense, and good QBs/OCs expose man coverage with formations and motion. So how much is a lock down corner bringing to the table? That doesn't mean you just throw a bunch of JAGs out there in the secondary, but I agree with the idea that the corner position is a lower priority than DL. 

 

That said, having players in the secondary who are good at making plays on the ball is still important. Jaylon Jones was in pretty good position vs Nico Collins on that game-clinching play, but a more talented corner might have been able to get a stop. 

[John Waylon]

 

How many tackles did our LBs have yesterday?

 

HOW MANY DID THEY HAVE?!

[Superman]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Davis_(defensive_back)

 

This dude is a UDFA. Please understand that you don't have to have elite coverage guys to play more aggressive at the line of scrimmage.

[KelownaColtsFan]

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

 

How many tackles did our LBs have yesterday?

 

HOW MANY DID THEY HAVE?!

 

I'm pretty sure Speed missed more tackles than he made. The secondary has been taking most of the heat around here and they do mostly suck, but for my money EJ is the worst player on the field.

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, John Waylon said:

 

How many tackles did our LBs have yesterday?

 

HOW MANY DID THEY HAVE?!

Franklin had 8 tackles and 6 assists. 1 missed tackle.

Speed had 7 tackles and 0 assists. 6 missed tackles.

Carlies had 2 tackles and 1 assist. 0 missed tackles.

[KelownaColtsFan]

18 hours ago, JediXMan said:

Yeah this is a bottom 10 defense lol.

After Sunday I'd say it's a bottom 1 defense.

[John Waylon]

8 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Franklin had 8 tackles and 6 assists. 1 missed tackle.

Speed had 7 tackles and 0 assists. 6 missed tackles.

Carlies had 2 tackles and 1 assist. 0 missed tackles.

Speed definitely had his share of misses yesterday. 

[coming on strong]

 

[Defjamz26]

14 hours ago, coming on strong said:

 

And Eberflus did have slightly better talent with Autry and Houston at edge, prime Shaq Leonard, and 2 years of Rhodes, but Gus had mostly the same. His defense allows too many easy catch and run completions and the tackling is significantly worse.

[Defjamz26]

 

[MikeCurtis]

I think we all agree,

 

This team is going nowhere with the combination of DC AND defensive personel

 

MAYBE, We didn't add to the defense THIS year, because the front office didn't feel that we were ready to make a run  I think in the offseason, we may need to draft defense early and often 

(There are some stud DTs in this upcoming draft)

 

We may also need to bring in a FA or two, to get the defense that we need. 

 

I am officially done with our GM and our DC, I hope that both are replaced in the offseason

 

This defense scheme was awesome 8-10 years ago.....   

 

OCs have learned to beat this defense, like a drum.

 

 

Our DC keeps going back to the same well, after its been dry for many years

 

 

 

[IndyEV]

A lot of coach speak, but Shane still thinks Bradley will turn it around! Just like a captain that sinks with his own ship, Shane will regret this the more time we keep Bradley!

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/shane-steichen-i-have-faith-gus-bradley-can-get-defense-turned-around

[AwesomeAustin]

There really isn’t anything to discuss. This defense is terrible and I don’t see a way to fix it this year. It will have to come in the offseason and probably be a 2-3 years process. I believe Gus Bradley has already sealed his fate and will be fired.  Where it goes from there is anyone’s guess. This team is in bad shape and most of us saw it. I honestly don’t believe the playoffs are a realistic goal for awhile. 

[lollygagger8]

I posted this in a different thread, but should've posted it here: 

 

If I was an opposing offense, I'd be salivating at playing a Gus Bradley Defense 

 

Colts are the worst ranked defense in the league in 2024 

They were 24th in 2023 

They were 27th in 2022 

 

They were 10th in 2021 

 

Bet you'll never guess when Gus joined the team .................

[BeanDiasucci]

Gus should watch the "Opposite George" Seinfeld episode in which George, who typically does everything wrong, suddenly finds success by experimenting with doing the exact opposite of what his instincts tell him to do in every situation. Opposite Gus could be a problem for opposing offenses.

 

 

[GoColts8818]

so you admit what you are doing isn’t working that means you have to do something different.  Why do I have a bad feeling he won’t?

[cbear]

On 10/6/2024 at 4:27 PM, 1959Colts said:

I never saw so much terrible open field tackling. Way too.often we have the play stopped, for like no gain, but we miss the tackle, and they run for an additional 10 yards. Frustrating to watch

EJ is a terrible tackler no matter what his stats say. Unless the ball carrier is standing still or runs directly into him, my guess is he'll miss the tackle. 

[richard pallo]

37 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

so you admit what you are doing isn’t working that means you have to do something different.  Why do I have a bad feeling he won’t?

I just listened to Gus’s press conference and how he said they were beaten on a number of different coverages it wasn’t just one.  He admitted players aren’t stepping up and doing their job when given their opportunity.  Womack was the only one he seemed happy with.  I think the Flowers dismissal was his attempt to hold players accountable for their mistakes.  We will see what happens the rest of the way but I would not be surprised if more players jobs are in jeopardy.  Players have to perform bottom line.  That’s how he sees it.  You don’t then someone else will be getting a chance.

[John Hammonds]

Geez, I hate to make this post.  But I looked at defensive stats for all 41 years the Colts have been in Indianapolis (including this year).  We are on track this year to be the Worst Defense Ever.

 

Top 10 Bad Defenses in Indianapolis History:

• #10 - 2015, Greg Manusky's last year as DC.  Allowed 408 points (rank 25), 6066 Total Yards (rank 26), 4114 passing yards (rank 24).  4.3 yards per rush.  6.6 yards per pass attempt.
• #9 - 2004, during Ron Meeks' tenure and during the Manning years.  351 points was good for only 19th, but 5929 total yards was 29th, 3892 passing yards was 28th, and 4.6 yards per rush was 30th in the league.
• #8 - 2016, first year of Ted Monachino.  392 points against was 22nd, but 6126 Total Yards (rank 30), 4200 passing yards (rank 27) with 6.8 yards per pass attempt.  Also had only 8 interceptions.
• #7 - 2022, first year of Gus Bradley.  427 points (rank 28).  Yards weren't that bad.  But had only 10 interceptions.  4.1 yards per rush was actually good enough for 5th.
• #6 - 2023, second year of Gus Bradley.  415 points (rank 28).  5947 yards (rank 24), 3842 passing yards (rank 16th).  Had an Indy-high 51 sacks.
• #5 - 2011, final year of Larry Coyer; set up Andrew Luck first draft choice.  430 points (rank 28), 5935 yards (rank 25), 2303 rushing yards (rank 29).  Passing yards were good, but 7.0 yards per pass attempt was worth 27th.  Only 29 sacks.  Only 8 interceptions.  Only 47 passes defended.
• #4 - 1998, Rusty Tillman's only year as DC.  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), with 4.7 yards per rushing attempt (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #3 - 2017, last year of Ted Monachino, before Eberflus came.  404 points (rank 30), 5873 yards (rank 30), 3946 passing yards (rank 28), for 7.3 yards per pass attempt (rank 32).  Only 25 sacks.
• #2 - 2001, Vic Fangio's last year (and the year that Jim Mora went off).  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), for 4.7 yards per rush (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #1 - 2024, projected numbers (divide by 5, multiply times 17).  415 points (rank 25), a Whopping 7126 total yards (rank 32), 2669 rushing yards (rank 31), 4457 passing yards (rank 29).  5.0 yards per rush (rank 17), 7.4 yards per pass attempt (rank 30).  Only 10 projected interceptions and 58 projected passes defended.

It's a pretty telling thing when your DC is projected to be responsible for 3 out of 10 worst defenses in this city.

[Jz0204945]

7 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Geez, I hate to make this post.  But I looked at defensive stats for all 41 years the Colts have been in Indianapolis (including this year).  We are on track this year to be the Worst Defense Ever.

 

Top 10 Bad Defenses in Indianapolis History:

• #10 - 2015, Greg Manusky's last year as DC.  Allowed 408 points (rank 25), 6066 Total Yards (rank 26), 4114 passing yards (rank 24).  4.3 yards per rush.  6.6 yards per pass attempt.
• #9 - 2004, during Ron Meeks' tenure and during the Manning years.  351 points was good for only 19th, but 5929 total yards was 29th, 3892 passing yards was 28th, and 4.6 yards per rush was 30th in the league.
• #8 - 2016, first year of Ted Monachino.  392 points against was 22nd, but 6126 Total Yards (rank 30), 4200 passing yards (rank 27) with 6.8 yards per pass attempt.  Also had only 8 interceptions.
• #7 - 2022, first year of Gus Bradley.  427 points (rank 28).  Yards weren't that bad.  But had only 10 interceptions.  4.1 yards per rush was actually good enough for 5th.
• #6 - 2023, second year of Gus Bradley.  415 points (rank 28).  5947 yards (rank 24), 3842 passing yards (rank 16th).  Had an Indy-high 51 sacks.
• #5 - 2011, final year of Larry Coyer; set up Andrew Luck first draft choice.  430 points (rank 28), 5935 yards (rank 25), 2303 rushing yards (rank 29).  Passing yards were good, but 7.0 yards per pass attempt was worth 27th.  Only 29 sacks.  Only 8 interceptions.  Only 47 passes defended.
• #4 - 1998, Rusty Tillman's only year as DC.  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), with 4.7 yards per rushing attempt (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #3 - 2017, last year of Ted Monachino, before Eberflus came.  404 points (rank 30), 5873 yards (rank 30), 3946 passing yards (rank 28), for 7.3 yards per pass attempt (rank 32).  Only 25 sacks.
• #2 - 2001, Vic Fangio's last year (and the year that Jim Mora went off).  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), for 4.7 yards per rush (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #1 - 2024, projected numbers (divide by 5, multiply times 17).  415 points (rank 25), a Whopping 7126 total yards (rank 32), 2669 rushing yards (rank 31), 4457 passing yards (rank 29).  5.0 yards per rush (rank 17), 7.4 yards per pass attempt (rank 30).  Only 10 projected interceptions and 58 projected passes defended.

It's a pretty telling thing when your DC is projected to be responsible for 3 out of 10 worst defenses in this city.

They need to quit messing around and fire him...

[GoColts8818]

12 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Geez, I hate to make this post.  But I looked at defensive stats for all 41 years the Colts have been in Indianapolis (including this year).  We are on track this year to be the Worst Defense Ever.

 

Top 10 Bad Defenses in Indianapolis History:

• #10 - 2015, Greg Manusky's last year as DC.  Allowed 408 points (rank 25), 6066 Total Yards (rank 26), 4114 passing yards (rank 24).  4.3 yards per rush.  6.6 yards per pass attempt.
• #9 - 2004, during Ron Meeks' tenure and during the Manning years.  351 points was good for only 19th, but 5929 total yards was 29th, 3892 passing yards was 28th, and 4.6 yards per rush was 30th in the league.
• #8 - 2016, first year of Ted Monachino.  392 points against was 22nd, but 6126 Total Yards (rank 30), 4200 passing yards (rank 27) with 6.8 yards per pass attempt.  Also had only 8 interceptions.
• #7 - 2022, first year of Gus Bradley.  427 points (rank 28).  Yards weren't that bad.  But had only 10 interceptions.  4.1 yards per rush was actually good enough for 5th.
• #6 - 2023, second year of Gus Bradley.  415 points (rank 28).  5947 yards (rank 24), 3842 passing yards (rank 16th).  Had an Indy-high 51 sacks.
• #5 - 2011, final year of Larry Coyer; set up Andrew Luck first draft choice.  430 points (rank 28), 5935 yards (rank 25), 2303 rushing yards (rank 29).  Passing yards were good, but 7.0 yards per pass attempt was worth 27th.  Only 29 sacks.  Only 8 interceptions.  Only 47 passes defended.
• #4 - 1998, Rusty Tillman's only year as DC.  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), with 4.7 yards per rushing attempt (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #3 - 2017, last year of Ted Monachino, before Eberflus came.  404 points (rank 30), 5873 yards (rank 30), 3946 passing yards (rank 28), for 7.3 yards per pass attempt (rank 32).  Only 25 sacks.
• #2 - 2001, Vic Fangio's last year (and the year that Jim Mora went off).  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), for 4.7 yards per rush (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #1 - 2024, projected numbers (divide by 5, multiply times 17).  415 points (rank 25), a Whopping 7126 total yards (rank 32), 2669 rushing yards (rank 31), 4457 passing yards (rank 29).  5.0 yards per rush (rank 17), 7.4 yards per pass attempt (rank 30).  Only 10 projected interceptions and 58 projected passes defended.

It's a pretty telling thing when your DC is projected to be responsible for 3 out of 10 worst defenses in this city.

I mean it’s just facts at this point.  That’s why I keep saying the players might not be executing what’s called correctly but that’s not the core issue.  The core issue is what’s being called.  

[richard pallo]

11 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Geez, I hate to make this post.  But I looked at defensive stats for all 41 years the Colts have been in Indianapolis (including this year).  We are on track this year to be the Worst Defense Ever.

 

Top 10 Bad Defenses in Indianapolis History:

• #10 - 2015, Greg Manusky's last year as DC.  Allowed 408 points (rank 25), 6066 Total Yards (rank 26), 4114 passing yards (rank 24).  4.3 yards per rush.  6.6 yards per pass attempt.
• #9 - 2004, during Ron Meeks' tenure and during the Manning years.  351 points was good for only 19th, but 5929 total yards was 29th, 3892 passing yards was 28th, and 4.6 yards per rush was 30th in the league.
• #8 - 2016, first year of Ted Monachino.  392 points against was 22nd, but 6126 Total Yards (rank 30), 4200 passing yards (rank 27) with 6.8 yards per pass attempt.  Also had only 8 interceptions.
• #7 - 2022, first year of Gus Bradley.  427 points (rank 28).  Yards weren't that bad.  But had only 10 interceptions.  4.1 yards per rush was actually good enough for 5th.
• #6 - 2023, second year of Gus Bradley.  415 points (rank 28).  5947 yards (rank 24), 3842 passing yards (rank 16th).  Had an Indy-high 51 sacks.
• #5 - 2011, final year of Larry Coyer; set up Andrew Luck first draft choice.  430 points (rank 28), 5935 yards (rank 25), 2303 rushing yards (rank 29).  Passing yards were good, but 7.0 yards per pass attempt was worth 27th.  Only 29 sacks.  Only 8 interceptions.  Only 47 passes defended.
• #4 - 1998, Rusty Tillman's only year as DC.  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), with 4.7 yards per rushing attempt (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #3 - 2017, last year of Ted Monachino, before Eberflus came.  404 points (rank 30), 5873 yards (rank 30), 3946 passing yards (rank 28), for 7.3 yards per pass attempt (rank 32).  Only 25 sacks.
• #2 - 2001, Vic Fangio's last year (and the year that Jim Mora went off).  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), for 4.7 yards per rush (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #1 - 2024, projected numbers (divide by 5, multiply times 17).  415 points (rank 25), a Whopping 7126 total yards (rank 32), 2669 rushing yards (rank 31), 4457 passing yards (rank 29).  5.0 yards per rush (rank 17), 7.4 yards per pass attempt (rank 30).  Only 10 projected interceptions and 58 projected passes defended.

It's a pretty telling thing when your DC is projected to be responsible for 3 out of 10 worst defenses in this city.

Fortunately we have only played a quarter of the season.  Defensive starters will be returning soon and our young players should continue to improve.  So what we are seeing now is most likely the low point of the season for the defense.

[John Waylon]

17 minutes ago, John Hammonds said:

Geez, I hate to make this post.  But I looked at defensive stats for all 41 years the Colts have been in Indianapolis (including this year).  We are on track this year to be the Worst Defense Ever.

 

Top 10 Bad Defenses in Indianapolis History:

• #10 - 2015, Greg Manusky's last year as DC.  Allowed 408 points (rank 25), 6066 Total Yards (rank 26), 4114 passing yards (rank 24).  4.3 yards per rush.  6.6 yards per pass attempt.
• #9 - 2004, during Ron Meeks' tenure and during the Manning years.  351 points was good for only 19th, but 5929 total yards was 29th, 3892 passing yards was 28th, and 4.6 yards per rush was 30th in the league.
• #8 - 2016, first year of Ted Monachino.  392 points against was 22nd, but 6126 Total Yards (rank 30), 4200 passing yards (rank 27) with 6.8 yards per pass attempt.  Also had only 8 interceptions.
• #7 - 2022, first year of Gus Bradley.  427 points (rank 28).  Yards weren't that bad.  But had only 10 interceptions.  4.1 yards per rush was actually good enough for 5th.
• #6 - 2023, second year of Gus Bradley.  415 points (rank 28).  5947 yards (rank 24), 3842 passing yards (rank 16th).  Had an Indy-high 51 sacks.
• #5 - 2011, final year of Larry Coyer; set up Andrew Luck first draft choice.  430 points (rank 28), 5935 yards (rank 25), 2303 rushing yards (rank 29).  Passing yards were good, but 7.0 yards per pass attempt was worth 27th.  Only 29 sacks.  Only 8 interceptions.  Only 47 passes defended.
• #4 - 1998, Rusty Tillman's only year as DC.  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), with 4.7 yards per rushing attempt (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #3 - 2017, last year of Ted Monachino, before Eberflus came.  404 points (rank 30), 5873 yards (rank 30), 3946 passing yards (rank 28), for 7.3 yards per pass attempt (rank 32).  Only 25 sacks.
• #2 - 2001, Vic Fangio's last year (and the year that Jim Mora went off).  444 points (rank 29), 5836 yards (rank 29), 2570 rush (rank 29), for 4.7 yards per rush (rank 30).  Only 8 interceptions.
• #1 - 2024, projected numbers (divide by 5, multiply times 17).  415 points (rank 25), a Whopping 7126 total yards (rank 32), 2669 rushing yards (rank 31), 4457 passing yards (rank 29).  5.0 yards per rush (rank 17), 7.4 yards per pass attempt (rank 30).  Only 10 projected interceptions and 58 projected passes defended.

It's a pretty telling thing when your DC is projected to be responsible for 3 out of 10 worst defenses in this city.

 

On 10/7/2024 at 3:19 PM, John Waylon said:

 

How many tackles did our LBs have yesterday?

 

HOW MANY DID THEY HAVE?!

I was told our LBs made lots of tackles all the time. How can it be bad?

[masterlock]

8 hours ago, IndyEV said:

A lot of coach speak, but Shane still thinks Bradley will turn it around! Just like a captain that sinks with his own ship, Shane will regret this the more time we keep Bradley!

 

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/shane-steichen-i-have-faith-gus-bradley-can-get-defense-turned-around

Yeah, it's really disingenuous and insulting to fans' intelligence. I get so tired of all the PR cliches and coach speak