Why is Ballard not improving his Secondary?

[richard pallo]

3 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

No offense to you Richard because you are just passing along what you heard I don’t think it’s worth much.  Like someone else said earlier until Shefty or Ian or another major national source picks it up I’d be extremely skeptical of anyone else.  

I agree.  There are two guys doing the podcast but one seems to have a connection or two.  He takes great care in how he reports what he supposedly knows.   Choosing his words very carefully.  Who knows but it was an interesting listen.

[cdgacoltsfan]

8 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

The Texans are currently ranked 6 or 7 in the current power rankings.  And for good reason.   The Colts are currently ranked 21 or 22.   
 

Doesn’t mean that’s how things will play out once the season gets under way.  Just that’s the view today.   
 

You're not a fan of media.   I spent my career in media, so my view is different.  I’m not saying I’m right and you’re wrong, I’m only saying we see media very differently.  

Rankings...ha. This isn't college football.Where were the Texans ranked this time last year?

[MikeCurtis]

Last year we had the 17th ranked defense in the league against the pass (I thought it was worse)

 

We will see if passing on Simmons was the right or wrong move really soon

 

I do believe that we should pick up another player for depth at the safety spot before the season starts

 

Fingers crossed that the trust put in Cross is the right move.   

 

With a healthy year from our DBs and development of Latu, hopefully we can get this to 10th or higher

[throwing BBZ]

4 minutes ago, MikeCurtis said:

Last year we had the 17th ranked defense in the league against the pass (I thought it was worse)

 

We will see if passing on Simmons was the right or wrong move really soon

 

I do believe that we should pick up another player for depth at the safety spot before the season starts

 

Fingers crossed that the trust put in Cross is the right move.   

 

With a healthy year from our DBs and development of Latu, hopefully we can get this to 10th or higher

 

 The hubris it takes to think you have the slightest clue how well our safeties are executing the coaches plans.  

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The hubris it takes to think you have the slightest clue how well our safeties are executing the coaches plans.  

 

Hubris?

 

That's a first for me, maybe forever.

 

Really?

 

I have never said in any way that I am the expert or know what happens in the Colts room

 

Just what I observe.

 

Man, I hope that you truly have an awesome day

 

 

[krunk]

2 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Last year we had the 17th ranked defense in the league against the pass (I thought it was worse)

 

We will see if passing on Simmons was the right or wrong move really soon

 

I do believe that we should pick up another player for depth at the safety spot before the season starts

 

Fingers crossed that the trust put in Cross is the right move.   

 

With a healthy year from our DBs and development of Latu, hopefully we can get this to 10th or higher

Do these stats include the fact that we were missing Blackmon, Flowers, and at times JuJu? Along with playing rookie starters and a  2nd year FS? People should look objectively at this stuff.

[MikeCurtis]

13 minutes ago, krunk said:

Do these stats include the fact that we were missing Blackmon, Flowers, and at times JuJu? Along with playing rookie starters and a  2nd year FS? People should look objectively at this stuff.

Stats dont take into account anything

 

It is what it is

 

With health (As I mention) I hope we are better

[BeanDiasucci]

4 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Last year we had the 17th ranked defense in the league against the pass (I thought it was worse)

 

We will see if passing on Simmons was the right or wrong move really soon

 

I do believe that we should pick up another player for depth at the safety spot before the season starts

 

Fingers crossed that the trust put in Cross is the right move.   

 

With a healthy year from our DBs and development of Latu, hopefully we can get this to 10th or higher

I'm interested to see who improves their PFF coverage grades the most from last season. I'm hoping it will be Brents and Jones, or that Flowers replaces Jones as a starter. 

 

2023 Coverage grade (min. 40 coverage snaps)

CB Kenny Moore II 79.3

S Julian Blackmon 72.6

CB Dallis Flowers 70.6

LB Segun Olubi 66.9

CB Julius Brents 64.5

S nick Cross 63.2

S Ronnie Harrison Jr. 61.9

S Rodney Thomas II 60.1

CB Chris Lammons 59.0

CB Jaylon Jones 57.3

LB Zaire Franklin 56.4

LB E.J. Speed 56.1

CB Darrell Baker Jr. 53.0

 

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-pro-football-focus-grades-best-worst-2023/

 

100-90 Elite

89-85 Pro Bowler

84-70 Starter

69-60 Backup

59-0 Replaceable

 

[IinD]

17 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I'm interested to see who improves their PFF coverage grades the most from last season. I'm hoping it will be Brents and Jones, or that Flowers replaces Jones as a starter. 

 

2023 Coverage grade (min. 40 coverage snaps)

CB Kenny Moore II 79.3

S Julian Blackmon 72.6

CB Dallis Flowers 70.6

LB Segun Olubi 66.9

CB Julius Brents 64.5

S nick Cross 63.2

S Ronnie Harrison Jr. 61.9

S Rodney Thomas II 60.1

CB Chris Lammons 59.0

CB Jaylon Jones 57.3

LB Zaire Franklin 56.4

LB E.J. Speed 56.1

CB Darrell Baker Jr. 53.0

 

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-pro-football-focus-grades-best-worst-2023/

 

100-90 Elite

89-85 Pro Bowler

84-70 Starter

69-60 Backup

59-0 Replaceable

 

[Superman]

1 hour ago, MikeCurtis said:

Stats dont take into account anything

 

Those stats definitely don't account for the fact that we faced some of the very worst QBs and offenses in the NFL last season. In fact, some of the offenses we faced were historically inept. 

 

So I would caution anyone who thinks that finishing 17th against the pass last season is a positive thing for the Colts defense. It's actually not very promising.

[Smonroe]

16 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Those stats definitely don't account for the fact that we faced some of the very worst QBs and offenses in the NFL last season. In fact, some of the offenses we faced were historically inept. 

 

So I would caution anyone who thinks that finishing 17th against the pass last season is a positive thing for the Colts defense. It's actually not very promising.

 

Neither Brents nor Jones were speed demons.  Flowers is (or was) faster than either of them.  So it's plain to see why we play that soft zone so often.  And why even mediocre QBs have a good reception percentage against our D.  The obvious plan is to not let anyone get past you.  Which makes that FS job even more important.

 

Simmons isn't going to cure everything, he's not very fast either.  But he would bring more experience to the D backfield.  At least Cross has speed.  But I'm starting to wonder if he has football brains.

[Superman]

30 minutes ago, Smonroe said:

 

Neither Brents nor Jones were speed demons.  Flowers is (or was) faster than either of them.  So it's plain to see why we play that soft zone so often.  And why even mediocre QBs have a good reception percentage against our D.  The obvious plan is to not let anyone get past you.  Which makes that FS job even more important.

 

Simmons isn't going to cure everything, he's not very fast either.  But he would bring more experience to the D backfield.  At least Cross has speed.  But I'm starting to wonder if he has football brains.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with any of this. I will add a caveat, and it's that Gus Bradley is a conservative defensive play caller no matter what personnel he has. I agree that he got more conservative as last season went along, but I think it's important to acknowledge that his conservative nature is not dependent on the personnel. The idea that maybe having better/faster DBs will change the way Bradley calls the defense is not something that I think has historical support.

 

Also, bigger picture as it relates to my previous post, we played that soft zone against bad QBs. We struggled to get pressure against bad QBs, average-to-bad OLs, and mediocre play callers. In 2023, we faced six backup QBs -- Walker, Trubisky, Heinicke, Levis, Browning, O'Connell (the last three were rookies). We faced two rookie starters -- Young, Stroud twice, and he worked our defense both times. Three opponents had journeyman starters of varying quality -- Tannehill (bad), Carr (bad but looked great against us), Mayfield (slightly above average, played pretty well against us). Our best defensive game was against the Patriots, and they had Mac Jones, who was one of the worst performing QBs in recent history. 

 

I'm going to leave out the two Texans games because Stroud is actually good. I lost track of how many interim coaches we faced -- HC and OC. And I won't make a big deal out of the fact that Matt Stafford was hurt in the second half of the Rams game... But that leaves 11 of 17 games where you could argue our defense should have had an advantage. You can't control who you play, or what they're dealing with, but here's my point: We played a soft defensive schedule, and still finished in the bottom half of the league against the pass. 

 

(And by the way, this was a season in which offensive output was noticeably muted around the league. So 17th in 2023 might be more like 24th in a more normal season.)

 

I'm hopeful that the defense performs better this year. Better pass rush from the front four is the key, IMO. That's the engine upon which Bradley's entire scheme is built, as a matter of fact, and the Colts made some changes that might improve the pass rush. But I'm not as encouraged by "17th against the pass" as others seem to be. That's actually really bad if you take time to consider the context.

[MikeCurtis]

2 hours ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I'm interested to see who improves their PFF coverage grades the most from last season. I'm hoping it will be Brents and Jones, or that Flowers replaces Jones as a starter. 

 

2023 Coverage grade (min. 40 coverage snaps)

CB Kenny Moore II 79.3

S Julian Blackmon 72.6

CB Dallis Flowers 70.6

LB Segun Olubi 66.9

CB Julius Brents 64.5

S nick Cross 63.2

S Ronnie Harrison Jr. 61.9

S Rodney Thomas II 60.1

CB Chris Lammons 59.0

CB Jaylon Jones 57.3

LB Zaire Franklin 56.4

LB E.J. Speed 56.1

CB Darrell Baker Jr. 53.0

 

https://coltswire.usatoday.com/lists/indianapolis-colts-pro-football-focus-grades-best-worst-2023/

 

100-90 Elite

89-85 Pro Bowler

84-70 Starter

69-60 Backup

59-0 Replaceable

 

Thats just dang painful to read

[ADnum1]

10 hours ago, MikeCurtis said:

Last year we had the 17th ranked defense in the league against the pass (I thought it was worse)

That is strange.

 

From @AKB stats Colts were ranked 29th -31st in every passing defense category. 

 

Where did you get 17th from ?

[MikeCurtis]

32 minutes ago, ADnum1 said:

That is strange.

 

From @AKB stats Colts were ranked 29th -31st in every passing defense category. 

 

Where did you get 17th from ?

Let me look where I found it.  I also thought we were worse than 17

[ChuggaBeer]

If Blackmon is plying well at FS.   What about Michah Hyde as SS?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I am sorry but this is mal practice. It’s August. We should have fixed this in the spring.  It to mention injuries and no backups.
 

 

[smittywerb]

7 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am sorry but this is mal practice. It’s August. We should have fixed this in the spring.  It to mention injuries and no backups.
 

 

 

I honestly agree.  If we have to get to the games to see who we should start at a position then that position is not in good shape.  Preaseason should be a warm up.  Yes, we also evaluate players during preseason but you pretty much know who’s the starter.

 

now this would be a different case if said position was just performing so well that the coaches can’t choose.  But it’s not that.

[ColtStrong2013]

9 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am sorry but this is mal practice. It’s August. We should have fixed this in the spring.  It to mention injuries and no backups.
 

 

something is really strange with the situation. Dodds looks

uncomfortable talking about it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

8 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

something is really strange with the situation. Dodds looks

uncomfortable talking about it.

I thought so too. Maybe they are looking to upgrade. I thought Bradley seemed weird too when talking about it.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

10 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

 

I honestly agree.  If we have to get to the games to see who we should start at a position then that position is not in good shape.  Preaseason should be a warm up.  Yes, we also evaluate players during preseason but you pretty much know who’s the starter.

 

now this would be a different case if said position was just performing so well that the coaches can’t choose.  But it’s not that.

There are only 17 games. If it costs you 2 or 3 games early that is probably killing your playoff chances. You can’t load manage with only 17 games.

[Yoshinator]

31 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I am sorry but this is mal practice. It’s August. We should have fixed this in the spring.  It to mention injuries and no backups.
 

 

Yep. Absolute garbage. There are a lot of people who are ok with this too. Dodds is just as big of a coward as Ballard. No leadership up top on this team. Ballard and Dodds couldn't run a pee wee football team, and Irsay isn't doing anything to overrule them.

[ColtStrong2013]

23 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I thought so too. Maybe they are looking to upgrade. I thought Bradley seemed weird too when talking about it.

Something. They’ve either tried to upgrade with no success, their hands are tied in some form (the only thought there is that the early safety market was expensive and then it died), or they are waiting to see who drops that they can try and bring in and using training camp/preseason games as an excuse to evaluate while they wait. 
 

I just can’t imagine they are sitting on the sidelines knowing full well it’s a big issue.

[ColtStrong2013]

11 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Yep. Absolute garbage. There are a lot of people who are ok with this too. Dodds is just as big of a coward as Ballard. No leadership up top on this team. Ballard and Dodds couldn't run a pee wee football team, and Irsay isn't doing anything to overrule them.

Easy feller. I’ve run a peewee team, it’s not hard. 
 

Also, have you seen Irsay lately? He shouldn’t be trying to overrule anybody… let the pro’s do their job and take care yourself right now. Also, he literally just said this is the best team we’ve had in a while. 

[Yoshinator]

10 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Yep. Absolute garbage. There are a lot of people who are ok with this too. Dodds is just as big of a coward as Ballard. No leadership up top on this team. Ballard and Dodds couldn't run a pee wee football team, and Irsay isn't doing anything to overrule them.

To add to this. They are keeping the guy in Nick Cross who hurt Josh Downs and had no remorse, and even though they are aware of the S situation, they are in no hurry to fix it. Simmons will be gone before they will decide to get a S.

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

Yep. Absolute garbage. There are a lot of people who are ok with this too. Dodds is just as big of a coward as Ballard. No leadership up top on this team. Ballard and Dodds couldn't run a pee wee football team, and Irsay isn't doing anything to overrule them.

These are the type of posts that hurt you the most.    Here’s basically what you’re saying….  
 

I demand that Ballard and Dodds and Brown and Irsay and the rest of those “cowards” (your word) do things in the timeline I want.   I resent having to live with this uncertainty.   Make your moves when I want them not when you think it’s best.  
 

Of course, you already know why the front office and coach are waiting, you just reject that too.

 

I don’t ever remember these angry rants ending well for you.   But that doesn’t stop you.   I wish you’d reconsider these rants…

 

[NewColtsFan]

2 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

To add to this. They are keeping the guy in Nick Cross who hurt Josh Downs and had no remorse, and even though they are aware of the S situation, they are in no hurry to fix it. Simmons will be gone before they will decide to get a S.

No remote?   What are you talking about?   Cross made it clear he and Downs are good friends and Cross didn’t do it on purpose and feels bad about it. 
 

And if Simmons goes elsewhere, so be it.  The Colts will find another safety they’re comfortable with.  And I’m a guy who wants the Colts to sign Simmons. 

[IinD]

Oh no we suck again!!. Or still?? 

[Yoshinator]

1 minute ago, NewColtsFan said:

No remote?   What are you talking about?   Cross made it clear he and Downs are good friends and Cross didn’t do it on purpose and feels bad about it. 
 

And if Simmons goes elsewhere, so be it.  The Colts will find another safety they’re comfortable with.  And I’m a guy who wants the Colts to sign Simmons. 

He said "I mean, we're playing football". He said they are friends yes, but he said we are there to play football at the end of the day. He doubled down on his actions and showed no remorse. It was a cold hearted response and he admitted no wrongdoing. 

 

I want Simmons. No other S is close to him in FA. He has shown interest in signing as we've seen with the Saints. There is no reason not to get him with our remaining cap available. I don't trust Ballard to get some random S. He hasn't earned that right IMO. His track record with the secondary sucks. Might as well pick a name out of a hat if you don't sign Simmons.

[ADnum1]

14 minutes ago, Yoshinator said:

He said "I mean, we're playing football". He said they are friends yes, but he said we are there to play football at the end of the day. He doubled down on his actions and showed no remorse. It was a cold hearted response and he admitted no wrongdoing. 

 

I want Simmons. No other S is close to him in FA. He has shown interest in signing as we've seen with the Saints. There is no reason not to get him with our remaining cap available. I don't trust Ballard to get some random S. He hasn't earned that right IMO. His track record with the secondary sucks. Might as well pick a name out of a hat if you don't sign Simmons.

From the latest depth chart Cross is the starting FS.

 

Colts are so thin at safety no way will Cross be cut

[Hawkeyecolt]

1 hour ago, ChuggaBeer said:

If Blackmon is plying well at FS.   What about Michah Hyde as SS?

I believe Hyde is a FS. He has said if he doesn’t play for the Bills, he’s retiring. 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

There are only 17 games. If it costs you 2 or 3 games early that is probably killing your playoff chances. You can’t load manage with only 17 games.

I don’t get it, we’d rather wait until “the games” instead of getting someone in here quickly and allow them to get acclimated.  Even if we signed Simmons during the preseason, that doesn’t give him much time before the season starts.

 

I think we have a solid team.  I don’t think we’re done for because we’re weak at FS.  I’m not apart of the “riot mob” to say.  It’s just frustrating to see that we have the opportunity and resources to instantly improve probably the most important position  in our defensive scheme but we’d rather wait and evaluate a 22 year old 3 year who just injured our slot receiver in a no/limited contact session, a 7th round pick who took a huge step back the previous year, and a player who’s best fit is at SS/LB.

 

For the Shoe lol

[Superman]

2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

something is really strange with the situation. Dodds looks

uncomfortable talking about it.

 

He's physically uncomfortable because he has a situation with his arm and his shoulder, and he's having an operation next week to correct it. He talks about it at the beginning of the video, it's on the main site. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Yoshinator said:

He said "I mean, we're playing football". He said they are friends yes, but he said we are there to play football at the end of the day. He doubled down on his actions and showed no remorse. It was a cold hearted response and he admitted no wrongdoing. 

 

I want Simmons. No other S is close to him in FA. He has shown interest in signing as we've seen with the Saints. There is no reason not to get him with our remaining cap available. I don't trust Ballard to get some random S. He hasn't earned that right IMO. His track record with the secondary sucks. Might as well pick a name out of a hat if you don't sign Simmons.

Ballard is the same guy that signed Rodney McCloud.  A nobody.   And all he did was have the best year of his career, with grades in the mid-80’s. 
 

You're one of the many here who didn’t understand what the Colts did last year with the secondary.  That we’d let the kids play and learn on the job.  So the kids made mistakes for all to see.  But now you and others want those guys replaced by better.  Replacing all those guys now defeats the whole purpose of playing them  last year.  How do we know if they’ll be better if we don’t let them play and show what they can do?   
 

I hope tomorrow we wake up to find out Simmons is a Colt.   I just won’t freak out if he doesn’t.   I trust Ballard and so does the owner.  I think your comment about not trusting Ballard and he hasn’t earned it is frankly embarrassing.   The reason this team has struggled for years is (1) he hasn’t gotten the QB right which he said so in January,  and (2) the terrible OL in 2022 which ended up with the team firing their OL coach, Shafer. 
 

Im just asking you to tap the brakes a little to see what happens. 
 

 

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Superman said:

 

He's physically uncomfortable because he has a situation with his arm and his shoulder, and he's having an operation next week to correct it. He talks about it at the beginning of the video, it's on the main site. 

Thank you for that info. He definitely looks uncomfortable which is rare for his demeanor. 

[Superman]

3 hours ago, ADnum1 said:

That is strange.

 

From @AKB stats Colts were ranked 29th -31st in every passing defense category. 

 

Where did you get 17th from ?

 

17th in passing yards against. 

[ColtStrong2013]

14 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Im just asking you to tap the brakes a little to see what happens. 

no one is going to tap the brakes and magically think like others do on this forum. People have lost patience with Ballard, and I understand it. They expect to win and yet don’t expect it with his leadership. It’s been a long road since Luck retired and it’s caught up to a lot of people. The problem is, as @DougDewwould say, we aren’t exactly Super Bowl contenders. So it’s impatience by many but the situation isn’t going to change overnight and especially not going to change overnight by getting what they want in a new GM. I’m not sure how others weren’t encouraged, at least a little, by the trend shift from 2022 to last season and by the draft we had. It’s proven to be pretty smart considering the injuries so far. Pass rush, receiver, backup center… I’m frustrated with the safety room but I also understand we don’t know what we have in the secondary. We are basing it on a season ago when 21 and 22 year olds were playing. There is little chance they haven’t improved over an offseason. I of course wish we would add to the secondary, like Ballard said would happen, and if adding a few late draft picks was his idea of “adding fuel” then that is disappointing too, especially since he has repeatedly talked about the time it takes to develop defensive backs. But I’m also far more patient than others are on here. I still like our chances and am excited for this season. And it’s going to be a long one until the very end. 

[Superman]

6 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

no one is going to tap the brakes and magically think like others do on this forum. People have lost patience with Ballard, and I understand it. They expect to win and yet don’t expect it with his leadership. It’s been a long road since Luck retired and it’s caught up to a lot of people. The problem is, as @DougDewwould say, we aren’t exactly Super Bowl contenders. So it’s impatience by many but the situation isn’t going to change overnight and especially not going to change overnight by getting what they want in a new GM. I’m not sure how others weren’t encouraged, at least a little, by the trend shift from 2022 to last season and by the draft we had. It’s proven to be pretty smart considering the injuries so far. Pass rush, receiver, backup center… I’m frustrated with the safety room but I also understand we don’t know what we have in the secondary. We are basing it on a season ago when 21 and 22 year olds were playing. There is little chance they haven’t improved over an offseason. I of course wish we would add to the secondary, like Ballard said would happen, and if adding a few late draft picks was his idea of “adding fuel” then that is disappointing too, especially since he has repeatedly talked about the time it takes to develop defensive backs. But I’m also far more patient than others are on here. I still like our chances and am excited for this season. And it’s going to be a long one until the very end. 

 

My beef with this discourse is far more simple. Rather than judging the decisions being made based on their results, people are judging the decisions based on their own expectations. The Colts have said they want to see how the current group looks, and now they’re saying they want to see it in a game. But people think they should do something different, and because they aren’t, they’re lashing out. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

My beef with this discourse is far more simple. Rather than judging the decisions being made based on their results, people are judging the decisions based on their own expectations. The Colts have said they want to see how the current group looks, and now they’re saying they want to see it in a game. But people think they should do something different, and because they aren’t, they’re lashing out. 

Part of me wants to see too. But following a couple weeks of training camp and the news today on Cross’ nonsense leading to one of our best weapons with his foot elevated on a pillow, I have little faith in the results leading to anything but a rash move that will undoubtedly seem like one of panic. I hope that I’m proven wrong. Desperately hope that I’m wrong. But it’s where it appears to be headed and we can already look back to January and say- “HELLOOO Chris Ballard….” You knew exactly what was coming and did nothing because you didn’t want to believe it or had way too much optimism about something changing. I certainly thought we’d see a move after Scott went down again. I don’t get it. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The colts saw this group play all last year. There was no reason to want to wait and see in training camp or in games. Cross and Thomas are in year 3 if you don’t know what you have by now something is wrong.