Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[csmopar]

13 hours ago, krunk said:

That wasn't a strong draft for pass rush when Paye was drafted. Paye was one of the best of the bunch even though sack numbers not high 

And a lot of expert mocks had Paye projected as a top 5 pick that year too. He slid to 15. I’m not sure we pick up his option, but I think we should. 

[DougDew]

11 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I have no problem taking DE in the first.   Been saying that for months.   I’m also fine if we take a DE in the second, but not later.   
 

As to Paye, again, his biggest issue is his eye sight.   That’s why they flipped him from right to left where he improved. 

I'm not advocating taking a DE.  With this thread talking mainly about the attributes of several players, I thought to approach the topic from what position has the least amount of ceiling to it.  I think CB has some ceiling that we don't fully know.

 

What is APs ceiling?  What is Woods/Ogeltree's?

 

What is Paye's ceiling...or Ebukam's?  Eyesight or not, Paye is a not a bendy guy.  Neither was Freeney, but he sacked the QB so well because of an awesome spin move he had.  Mathis was bendy.  So was Houston.  So was Yannick, who came over with Gus.  Since Paye does not have a spin move like Freeney, he probably was always destined for LDE, kinda like Bjoern Werner always was too despite the GM and HC drafting him like he could play RDE..

[smittywerb]

Well with free agency underway and Majority of the moves being made, I figure I update my personal big board of picks at 15.  
 

1.  Dallas Turner/Latu:  figure I put these two together because one or the other may be available.  I’ve said it in another post, we ranked 30th hurries and 3 of our DL ranked in the top 20 of pass and rush win rate (Samson ranked in both).  Kwitty was the only one to not rank in either and rushing with the front 4 is very important in this scheme.  We need to pressure the qb more.  I know the scheme plays a part but we need personnel for the scheme to work correctly.  Either turner or latu would replace kwitty and gives us a nice balanced rush with our front 4.

 

2.  Brock Bowers:  in todays nfl, your qb is the end all be all and if he isn’t Mahomes, you need to surround him with great weapons.  Brock is that.  He can lineup anywhere and produce.  He’d fit right in Shane system and the things that he’d scheme up for Brock I can only dream about.  
 

3.  BTJ:  same reason as Brock, we need to get AR weapons.  I’m sorry, I’m not an Alec Pierce believer.  Can AP thrive with AR, yes.  But go’s and deep posts are only going to get you so far with a 4.4 speed.  We need a dynamic burner who can do damage at ALL levels.  BTJ is that.  BTJ is what JJ was to Chase at LSU.  Not saying BTJ can be JJ, but he’s right behind that top 3 group wrs this draft (MHJ, Odunze, Nabers).  He fits the Ballard mold and would provide an instant impact opposite of MPJ.

 

4.  Arnold:  best CB in the draft.  Not the fastest, but his tape shows he can be a CB1 and played in the SEC against tough comp.  He can play opposite of Brents and fill an immediate need after not grabbing a CB in FA.

 

5.  Quinyon Mitchell:  probably would be CB1 in this draft but he played at Toledo.  Tape also is very good.  4.3 speed, and had a great senior bowl.  My only knock is he played at Toledo (personal opinion).  Other than that, if the above 4 are gone, I don’t mind going with him.

 

note:  I know safety is missing.  That’s because this draft is considered to be a weak safety class.  Think we should go vet with diggs and resigning blackmon

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

51 minutes ago, csmopar said:

And a lot of expert mocks had Paye projected as a top 5 pick that year too. He slid to 15. I’m not sure we pick up his option, but I think we should. 

Paye was pick 21.

[krunk]

Getting Bowers at 15 and a WR in rd 2 preferably after a trade back would be a nice shot in the arm.

 

I really like Xavier Legette! Heck I would take him at 15 personally.  

[RollerColt]

5 minutes ago, krunk said:

Getting Bowers at 15 and a WR in rd 2 preferably after a trade back would be a nice shot in the arm.

 

I really like Xavier Legette! Heck I would take him at 15 personally.  

A lot of the NFL analysts are putting Brock in the 10-15 range so we’re just in that window. 

[ColtStrong2013]

1 hour ago, csmopar said:

And a lot of expert mocks had Paye projected as a top 5 pick that year too. He slid to 15. I’m not sure we pick up his option, but I think we should. 

That’s not something I recall at all. The top 10 was very good that year and the defensive end class was not good. I remember an article saying he could go top 13-15 and that may be too high. I know we were fortunate to get him at the time at 21, but he was never a top 5 or even 10 pick, imo. 

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

That’s not something I recall at all. The top 10 was very good that year and the defensive end class was not good. I remember an article saying he could go top 13-15 and that may be too high. I know we were fortunate to get him at the time at 21, but he was never a top 5 or even 10 pick, imo. 

That's the way I remember it too.  His sack production at MICH was not great, and he was also used in the interior at times.  Lack of bend was a known issue (not that its everything).  He was considered the best of a weak class.

 

I think his natural position is LDE, and he is very good there, IMO.

 

Polian didn't think he'd make a great NFL pass rusher, IIRC.

[BlackTiger]

Personally I'm not crazy about going DE at 15 this year.  I don't like the class that much and our Dline is better than our Corners and probably WRs.

 

I know the team wont operate this way but I would go best available of those 2 positions with Bowers being treated like a WR for this discussion.  I say this with some confidence because there will be a good corner there, maybe the first choice 

 

[throwing BBZ]

On 3/23/2024 at 2:53 PM, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I don’t think edge will be an option. Tells you how bad his team building is that he was going to pay a 31 edge rusher when the secondary is that bad.

 

 If you could possibly grasp that Ballard really wasn't in on Hunter, despite what was floated in the "news", and if you could somehow appreciate our 4 very solid edge rushers, maybe you wouldn't drift out into left field like so many of our silly posters.

 Cross and Juju should be good players, Jones might be pretty good, I recall the completion % against him was maybe 59%.  That is very good considering he was a rookie and playing Gus's ugh D.

 Knowing we still have many good options, why be cry babies over our secondary until we get to our final 53? 

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, throwing BBZ said:

If you could possibly grasp that Ballard really wasn't in on Hunter

I’m not sure that he was in on sneed either. Trying hard to ignore the irony that the main organizations involved (and ultimately both players were traded to) are  our division rivals. 

[BlackTiger]

3 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

Cross and Juju should be good players

Cross is good at finding the ball and making tackles, he occasionally makes plays in the secondary too.  He has the tools to be a good SS. He was drafted very young and I think hes trending up 

[richard pallo]

14 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Cross is good at finding the ball and making tackles, he occasionally makes plays in the secondary too.  He has the tools to be a good SS. He was drafted very young and I think hes trending up 

Hopefully he is.  He really struggled through most of the season.  Then Blackmon got hurt and he had to start.  He played well down the stretch which is a good sign finally.  He will probably start if Blackmon doesn’t return.  Hopefully he’s up to the task.  

[BlackTiger]

11 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

He really struggled through most of the season.

He is a strong safety, I believe they played him at CB and FS due to need.

 

Somewhere I read that Ballard said he practices mostly at SS and a little nickel, and is only an emergency backup at FS and CB

 

[Solid84]

2 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Well with free agency underway and Majority of the moves being made, I figure I update my personal big board of picks at 15.  
 

1.  Dallas Turner/Latu:  figure I put these two together because one or the other may be available.  I’ve said it in another post, we ranked 30th hurries and 3 of our DL ranked in the top 20 of pass and rush win rate (Samson ranked in both).  Kwitty was the only one to not rank in either and rushing with the front 4 is very important in this scheme.  We need to pressure the qb more.  I know the scheme plays a part but we need personnel for the scheme to work correctly.  Either turner or latu would replace kwitty and gives us a nice balanced rush with our front 4.

 

2.  Brock Bowers:  in todays nfl, your qb is the end all be all and if he isn’t Mahomes, you need to surround him with great weapons.  Brock is that.  He can lineup anywhere and produce.  He’d fit right in Shane system and the things that he’d scheme up for Brock I can only dream about.  
 

3.  BTJ:  same reason as Brock, we need to get AR weapons.  I’m sorry, I’m not an Alec Pierce believer.  Can AP thrive with AR, yes.  But go’s and deep posts are only going to get you so far with a 4.4 speed.  We need a dynamic burner who can do damage at ALL levels.  BTJ is that.  BTJ is what JJ was to Chase at LSU.  Not saying BTJ can be JJ, but he’s right behind that top 3 group wrs this draft (MHJ, Odunze, Nabers).  He fits the Ballard mold and would provide an instant impact opposite of MPJ.

 

4.  Arnold:  best CB in the draft.  Not the fastest, but his tape shows he can be a CB1 and played in the SEC against tough comp.  He can play opposite of Brents and fill an immediate need after not grabbing a CB in FA.

 

5.  Quinyon Mitchell:  probably would be CB1 in this draft but he played at Toledo.  Tape also is very good.  4.3 speed, and had a great senior bowl.  My only knock is he played at Toledo (personal opinion).  Other than that, if the above 4 are gone, I don’t mind going with him.

 

note:  I know safety is missing.  That’s because this draft is considered to be a weak safety class.  Think we should go vet with diggs and resigning blackmon

I think the only guy worth taking in the first at safety is Cooper DeJean, but even he’s a tradeback target. 

[richard pallo]

23 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

He is a strong safety, I believe they played him at CB and FS due to need.

 

Somewhere I read that Ballard said he practices mostly at SS and a little nickel, and is only an emergency backup at FS and CB

 

That’s right.  He was Blackmon’s backup.  I only recall seeing him play SS.

[KB]

7 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I think the only guy worth taking in the first at safety is Cooper DeJean, but even he’s a tradeback target. 

You think there's any chance DeJean ends up falling to the second round?

[Solid84]

7 minutes ago, KB said:

You think there's any chance DeJean ends up falling to the second round?

Possibly, but not to 46th. 
 

He’s one of those freaky athletic guys who hasn’t really locked down a position yet. They can be really hit and miss. Someone’s going to take a chance on him purely based on upside though. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The nfl has banned the hip drop tackle. Now is the time to load up on big TE and WR.

[BlackTiger]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

The nfl has banned the hip drop tackle

I dont even know what that is.  Franklin will probably go off on social media and let us know though!

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Scored are about to go up in the nfl so a pass catcher at 15 is making more sense.

[NewColtsFan]

3 hours ago, smittywerb said:

Well with free agency underway and Majority of the moves being made, I figure I update my personal big board of picks at 15.  
 

1.  Dallas Turner/Latu:  figure I put these two together because one or the other may be available.  I’ve said it in another post, we ranked 30th hurries and 3 of our DL ranked in the top 20 of pass and rush win rate (Samson ranked in both).  Kwitty was the only one to not rank in either and rushing with the front 4 is very important in this scheme.  We need to pressure the qb more.  I know the scheme plays a part but we need personnel for the scheme to work correctly.  Either turner or latu would replace kwitty and gives us a nice balanced rush with our front 4.

 

2.  Brock Bowers:  in todays nfl, your qb is the end all be all and if he isn’t Mahomes, you need to surround him with great weapons.  Brock is that.  He can lineup anywhere and produce.  He’d fit right in Shane system and the things that he’d scheme up for Brock I can only dream about.  
 

3.  BTJ:  same reason as Brock, we need to get AR weapons.  I’m sorry, I’m not an Alec Pierce believer.  Can AP thrive with AR, yes.  But go’s and deep posts are only going to get you so far with a 4.4 speed.  We need a dynamic burner who can do damage at ALL levels.  BTJ is that.  BTJ is what JJ was to Chase at LSU.  Not saying BTJ can be JJ, but he’s right behind that top 3 group wrs this draft (MHJ, Odunze, Nabers).  He fits the Ballard mold and would provide an instant impact opposite of MPJ.

 

4.  Arnold:  best CB in the draft.  Not the fastest, but his tape shows he can be a CB1 and played in the SEC against tough comp.  He can play opposite of Brents and fill an immediate need after not grabbing a CB in FA.

 

5.  Quinyon Mitchell:  probably would be CB1 in this draft but he played at Toledo.  Tape also is very good.  4.3 speed, and had a great senior bowl.  My only knock is he played at Toledo (personal opinion).  Other than that, if the above 4 are gone, I don’t mind going with him.

 

note:  I know safety is missing.  That’s because this draft is considered to be a weak safety class.  Think we should go vet with diggs and resigning blackmon

Two points….  Regarding Mitchell playing at Toledo….  The best corner in the NFL is Sauce Gardner and he played at Cincinnati.   So I don’t think playing at Toledo is a worry.  I’ve not read any analyst say it is.   
 

The other point….   Arnold has a problem…. He has a fractured foot and it happened at the combine.  So he may not be ready until perhaps the start if the season.  He may miss most or all of camp. 
That may be an issue, or it could be used to Ballard’s advantage if he wants to trade down in the first.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Two points….  Regarding Mitchell playing at Toledo….  The best corner in the NFL is Sauce Gardner and he played at Cincinnati.   So I don’t think playing at Toledo is a worry.  I’ve not read any analyst say it is.   
 

The other point….   Arnold has a problem…. He has a fractured foot and it happened at the combine.  So he may not be ready until perhaps the start if the season.  He may miss most or all of camp. 
That may be an issue, or it could be used to Ballard’s advantage if he wants to trade down in the first.  

I think your thinking of kool aid thst they found the fractured foot. I could be wrong though and Arnold may have had one too.

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I think your thinking of kool aid thst they found the fractured foot. I could be wrong though and Arnold may have had one too.

Oh, you might be right.   Thanks for the catch.   I’ll try to double check.   

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, you might be right.   Thanks for the catch.   I’ll try to double check.   

Kool aid did his pro day even on a fractured foot and had incredible numbers still. He was supposed to have it fixed after his pro day and they said he will be ready by camp.

[stitches]

6 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

I think your thinking of kool aid thst they found the fractured foot. I could be wrong though and Arnold may have had one too.

 

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Oh, you might be right.   Thanks for the catch.   I’ll try to double check.   

Yeah, it's Kool-Aid with foot injury. The interesting thing is... he ran with it at their pro day and ran 4.47 and then underwent surgery after the pro-day for that Jones fracture. 

[NewColtsFan]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Kool aid did his pro day even on a fractured foot and had incredible numbers still. He was supposed to have it fixed after his pro day and they said he will be ready by camp.

Yes,  it was kool aid.   Thanks for that.  But I’m not wowed by his speed.   Pro days are almost always faster because the timing is by handheld stop watch and not the computerized they use in the Olympics and the combine.   So 4.47 is nice.  But I think that converts to roughly 4.50 at the combine.  Still, I’m sure it’s fast enough for Ballard.   Just saying. 

[NewColtsFan]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

 

Yeah, it's Kool-Aid with foot injury. The interesting thing is... he ran with it at their pro day and ran 4.47 and then underwent surgery after the pro-day for that Jones fracture. 

If Ballard wants to draft him toward the bottom of the first, the injury and surgery may work to his advantage.   It’s one to watch.  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, NewColtsFan said:

Yes,  it was kool aid.   Thanks for that.  But I’m not wowed by his speed.   Pro days are almost always faster because the timing is by handheld stop watch and not the computerized they use in the Olympics and the combine.   So 4.47 is nice.  But I think that converts to roughly 4.50 at the combine.  Still, I’m sure it’s fast enough for Ballard.   Just saying. 

I saw the guy that runs the senior bowl say their combine numbers should be faster than pro day numbers because of the fast turf in Indy. He said if prospects have a really good combine number they should not run again on their pro day.

[Superman]

2 hours ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I’m not sure that he was in on sneed either. Trying hard to ignore the irony that the main organizations involved (and ultimately both players were traded to) are  our division rivals. 

 

Sneed's agent to the Titans: 'You know the Colts are prepared to send the Chiefs a 2nd rounder and offer $20m/year, you don't want to see this guy in your division do you?'

[ColtStrong2013]

Just now, Superman said:

 

Sneed's agent to the Titans: 'You know the Colts are prepared to send the Chiefs a 2nd rounder and offer $20m/year, you don't want to see this guy in your division do you?'

exactly… 

[ColtStrong2013]

54 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

I dont even know what that is.  Franklin will probably go off on social media and let us know though!

He’s already ripped on it being proposed.

[stitches]

11 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If Ballard wants to draft him toward the bottom of the first, the injury and surgery may work to his advantage.   It’s one to watch.  

I really like Arnold. Like... really really like him... but I can't disagree with the people who say McKinstry fits better what Ballard usually likes... and he will likely be available later than Arnold too so... I can absolutely see Ballard trading down to about #25-30 and picking McKinstry. 

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Sneed's agent to the Titans: 'You know the Colts are prepared to send the Chiefs a 2nd rounder and offer $20m/year, you don't want to see this guy in your division do you?'

Those guys don't know Ballard like we do. If they knew him no GM or agent in the world would use Ballard for leverage. "Oh you know the guys who doesn't pay A money for B players... the one who every off-season professes his philosophy of not entering into bidding wars? The one who either makes a deal in the dark or never makes a deal... well... let me tell you just how much he's willing to pay to outbid you... and BTW... I'm about to go leak that to the press, just to make sure everybody knows it..." 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

6 minutes ago, stitches said:

I really like Arnold. Like... really really like him... but I can't disagree with the people who say McKinstry fits better what Ballard usually likes... and he will likely be available later than Arnold too so... I can absolutely see Ballard trading down to about #25-30 and picking McKinstry. 

Colts might be able to get him at 46 since he had that surgery.

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Colts might be able to get him at 46 since he had that surgery.

Possible... 

[Superman]

26 minutes ago, stitches said:

Those guys don't know Ballard like we do. If they knew him no GM or agent in the world would use Ballard for leverage. "Oh you know the guys who doesn't pay A money for B players... the one who every off-season professes his philosophy of not entering into bidding wars? The one who either makes a deal in the dark or never makes a deal... well... let me tell you just how much he's willing to pay to outbid you... and BTW... I'm about to go leak that to the press, just to make sure everybody knows it..." 

 

I gave several reasons why I didn't think the Sneed deal was happening. None of it was hard to figure out. 

[NewColtsFan]

42 minutes ago, stitches said:

Those guys don't know Ballard like we do. If they knew him no GM or agent in the world would use Ballard for leverage. "Oh you know the guys who doesn't pay A money for B players... the one who every off-season professes his philosophy of not entering into bidding wars? The one who either makes a deal in the dark or never makes a deal... well... let me tell you just how much he's willing to pay to outbid you... and BTW... I'm about to go leak that to the press, just to make sure everybody knows it..." 

 

I’m not sure how well this community knows Ballard.   That’s why we have a Ballard-backers camp and a Ballard-haters  camp.   And both sides think they know Ballard much better than the other. 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

Two points….  Regarding Mitchell playing at Toledo….  The best corner in the NFL is Sauce Gardner and he played at Cincinnati.   So I don’t think playing at Toledo is a worry.  I’ve not read any analyst say it is.   
 

The other point….   Arnold has a problem…. He has a fractured foot and it happened at the combine.  So he may not be ready until perhaps the start if the season.  He may miss most or all of camp. 
That may be an issue, or it could be used to Ballard’s advantage if he wants to trade down in the first.  

you bring up 2 great points.  Didn’t know that about sauce.  Didn’t know that about Arnold either!  You might’ve changed up personal board.  Yeah, switch Quinyon with Arnold because honestly, that’s all I had against Quinyon.  

[stitches]

My thought of the day: I think I want Laiatu Latu if we are going to be going for DE in the 1st. He will be my EDGE1 in this draft. Just.. .the more I watch of him and the other EDGEs ... the more I just cannot ignore how skilled he is. I am not sure I've seen this refined of a pass-rusher recently. It's almost like he's playing completely different game than any of the other EDGEs in this draft. And then he went on and tested above 9 RAS... like WHAT? Today I heard another metric in PFF's podcast... there's this in-game athleticism score(GAS) they have. And they have him measured at 97.1 out 100 in 2022 and 99.7 in 2023!!! They have him as an elite functional athlete, even though he doesn't look like it at first sight. And then the final nail - even production-wise he's the best pass-rusher in the draft... has 27 sacks last 2 years... 62 pressures this year, 65 last year... 21.5 FTLs this year, 12.5 last year... those are insane numbers. Those are better numbers than many of the EDGEs that have been drafted in the top 5(like the Bosas, like ... even Myles Garrett) don't hit... 

 

If our doctors clear him medically... I think I'd be ecstatic to get him at 15.