Colts have the 15th pick in the draft. (MERGE)

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Pretty sure it has including screens with the "overall". Where it shifts to grey from green.

 

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

 

Yup, it’s the grey part of the line - “Overall”. 

 

Totally missed that, thanks. It does show that Bowers produces on screens at a high level. 

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

I don't know if this has been posted before, but Brock Bowers please..

 

 

see I don’t know, I’m more intrigued by the people below.  The people below tells me that those players were getting open.  To get the production of someone like MHJ and be amongst the bottom of this list when it comes to YAC is amazing to me.  
 

I doubt bowers fall to us.  But this list has me drooling over the possibility of getting Arnold/Quinton with 15 and then grabbing someone like leggette in the second

[smittywerb]

As time has gone on and pro days are happening, I feel like we’re definitely leaning towards wide receiver in this draft.  Don’t know if it’ll be the first pick but I’m thinking we may double dip..  The colts have been at the following pro days:

 

Washington:  Odunze, Polk…Jim Bob cooter was in attendance 

 

Texas: Mitchell, Worthy…Shane, JBC, and Reggie were here.  Don’t know if it’s going to be the first round, but we’re heavily interested in someone there

 

Oregon: Franklin

LSU: BTJ…doubt Nabers is even in question as we won’t be able to get him.

 

Saw we were at the Notre Dame pro day also.  Don’t know if we’ve been at others.  But we’ve been to 4 pro days where talented receivers are.  If we could somehow grab Arnold/Mitchell, trade back into the late first and grab a WR, I’d be happy.

[wig]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

 

 

Totally missed that, thanks. It does show that Bowers produces on screens at a high level. 

 

He might be the best YAC TE of our lifetimes

[Dobbinblitz]

The latest SI mock has the Colts trading their 1st round pick to Buffalo for the the 28th Pick, #60,  and a 2025 2nd round pick. They have the Colts picking WR Xavier Worthy at #28 , and CB T.J. Tampa at #46.

 

I would not mind that outcome at all.

[jimmy g]

13 minutes ago, wig said:

 

He might be the best YAC TE of our lifetimes

They didn’t keep those stats when John Mackey played, but I’d bet on Colts 88! I had his poster on my wall as a kid.

[wig]

7 minutes ago, jimmy g said:

They didn’t keep those stats when John Mackey played, but I’d bet on Colts 88! I had his poster on my wall as a kid.

 

We have different lifetimes

[jimmy g]

2 minutes ago, wig said:

 

We have different lifetimes

Ike was President when I started School

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, Dobbinblitz said:

The latest SI mock has the Colts trading their 1st round pick to Buffalo for the the 28th Pick, #60,  and a 2025 2nd round pick. They have the Colts picking WR Xavier Worthy at #28 , and CB T.J. Tampa at #46.

 

I would not mind that outcome at all.

Remember….   Sports Illustrated isn’t what it once was and hasn’t been for a very long time.    

Just saying…..

[RollerColt]

13 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Remember….   Sports Illustrated isn’t what it once was and hasn’t been for a very long time.    

Just saying…..

Probably written by AI.

[Hawkeyecolt]

5 hours ago, jimmy g said:

They didn’t keep those stats when John Mackey played, but I’d bet on Colts 88! I had his poster on my wall as a kid.

There’s a great video about of him running over Butkus

[OhioColt]

4 hours ago, RollerColt said:

Probably written by AI.

One I saw was written by a Hickey

[AwesomeAustin]

On 3/31/2024 at 3:12 PM, NewColtsFan said:

I think this generally true.  Of the three levels, DL would be first, LB second, secondary third.   
 

Im extremely curious if there’s been a change in philosophy.   An article last summer from Bucky Brooks….  He interviewed all teams that run a 4-3 defense and reported that half of them now view LB as no better than a Day 3 pick.   They view LB as the RB of the defense — devalued — because so many LBers come off the field for more corners and/or safeties.   
 

So the question becomes….   Is Ballard now one of those GMs who think that?   Or does he try to draft Shaq Leonard 2.0?  
 

We may find out on Day 2, Friday the 26th.

I think they drafted Leonard in the 2nd round bc they identified him for the talent he was. I believe the TV guys said it was a reach at the time. I could see Ballard going LB again only if they find the right guy, they won’t force it. Leonard was unreal on his rookie contract and well worth a 2nd. 

[DougDew]

Going to reset the convo a bit...as I see it of course.

 

IMO, the top half of the first round is where you find the playmakers...a difference-maker.  The guys that other teams need to plan for, so to speak.

 

• What position(s) on the Colts needs that kind of player?...which means the rookie is intended to displace an existing starter very soon.
• Trade value chart shows that our picks 46 and 15 could get us to pick 7 (assuming TEN would make that trade).  Is there a player you would use pick 46 to trade up for?  Remember, this is a genuine difference-maker.  If its a hit, the pick 46 you give up is peanuts in terms of price.

[Dingus McGirt]

12 hours ago, jimmy g said:

They didn’t keep those stats when John Mackey played, but I’d bet on Colts 88! I had his poster on my wall as a kid.

He, like #19, redefined their respective positions in their time.  Both were on the SI NFL Team of the first fifty years.  The best.

[1959Colts]

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jets-could-be-looking-to-trade-down-from-no-10

Jets could be looking to trade down from No. 10

 

...The Jets seem to be all-in, when it comes to acquiring veteran talent for 2024. They also might be looking to acquire extra draft picks later this month...

 

 

 

[KB]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Going to reset the convo a bit...as I see it of course.

 

IMO, the top half of the first round is where you find the playmakers...a difference-maker.  The guys that other teams need to plan for, so to speak.

 

• What position(s) on the Colts needs that kind of player?...which means the rookie is intended to displace an existing starter very soon.
• Trade value chart shows that our picks 46 and 15 could get us to pick 7 (assuming TEN would make that trade).  Is there a player you would use pick 46 to trade up for?  Remember, this is a genuine difference-maker.  If its a hit, the pick 46 you give up is peanuts in terms of price.

IMO, I can only say Nabers would probably be the only true difference maker that could make it to our striking range. He would he a perfect fit in our offense too.

 

I doubt we trade up, especially for a WR in a deep WR draft.

[DougDew]

Just now, KB said:

IMO, I can only say Nabers would probably be the only true difference maker that could make it to our striking range. He would he a perfect fit in our offense too.

 

I doubt we trade up, especially for a WR in a deep WR draft.

Is it a deep "difference-maker" draft?   How much more young 2nd and 3rd round level talent does the team need?

[richard pallo]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Going to reset the convo a bit...as I see it of course.

 

IMO, the top half of the first round is where you find the playmakers...a difference-maker.  The guys that other teams need to plan for, so to speak.

 

• What position(s) on the Colts needs that kind of player?...which means the rookie is intended to displace an existing starter very soon.
• Trade value chart shows that our picks 46 and 15 could get us to pick 7 (assuming TEN would make that trade).  Is there a player you would use pick 46 to trade up for?  Remember, this is a genuine difference-maker.  If its a hit, the pick 46 you give up is peanuts in terms of price.

Only player I would trade up for is MHJ for obvious reasons.  I would only trade back if we were going to receive an obvious starter as part of the trade.  Otherwise I’m sitting put and drafting a starter at 15.

[richard pallo]

27 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

https://www.nbcsports.com/nfl/profootballtalk/rumor-mill/news/jets-could-be-looking-to-trade-down-from-no-10

Jets could be looking to trade down from No. 10

 

...The Jets seem to be all-in, when it comes to acquiring veteran talent for 2024. They also might be looking to acquire extra draft picks later this month...

 

 

 

I also read where the Jets really liked Bowers and that’s who Rogers wants.  Just another article for now.  Who knows.

[smittywerb]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

Going to reset the convo a bit...as I see it of course.

 

IMO, the top half of the first round is where you find the playmakers...a difference-maker.  The guys that other teams need to plan for, so to speak.

 

• What position(s) on the Colts needs that kind of player?...which means the rookie is intended to displace an existing starter very soon.
• Trade value chart shows that our picks 46 and 15 could get us to pick 7 (assuming TEN would make that trade).  Is there a player you would use pick 46 to trade up for?  Remember, this is a genuine difference-maker.  If it’s a hit, the pick 46 you give up is peanuts in terms of price.

BP1:  based on our scheme and current personnel, I think we need playmakers at DE, WR, FS, CB (in that order).  we may get one or multiple at DE, WR, and/or CB this draft depending on how it plays out.  I hope we don’t go high on a FS this draft as it has been said this isn’t a good safety draft.

 

BP2:  if we move up to 7, I’m hoping we grab Dallas Turner.  He’s mocked to maybe slide to us at 15 so idk if trading that far up is necessary.  But if he’s available at 15 or if we have to move up, that would be my pick.  I’d personally go WR with our next pick. WR class is deep and could maybe even get a stud.  
 

Note:  I am apart of the Arnold/Mitchell club at pick 15 if the draft plays out that way.  If Turner/Latu are not there.  I’d be hurt about not getting BTJ, but as said above, we can find a good WR to fit our explosive deep threat need in the 2nd (ex. Leggette, worthy)
 

 

[KB]

21 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is it a deep "difference-maker" draft?   How much more young 2nd and 3rd round level talent does the team need?

Well, that is truly unknown. We could trade up for Nabers and he busts. Then we waste picks. We could end up with a 3rd round receiver that ends up having the best career out of any receiver in the past decade.

 

"Difference-maker" won't actually be known for some time. You're just betting on projections. I'd rather keep 15 and find the playmaker that drops to us, and have the other picks. Nabers has a good chance of being a difference-maker. Not a garuntee tho.

[throwing BBZ]

34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Is it a deep "difference-maker" draft?   How much more young 2nd and 3rd round level talent does the team need?

 

 The lamentation to trade for a $19M per 4th rounder was very loud here.

Your question is uncharacteristically seemingly off target. We need as many as we can get.

 If we can't get QMitchell,  trading back with AZ. for 27 and 35 should make Ballard twitch. 

[DougDew]

20 minutes ago, KB said:

Well, that is truly unknown. We could trade up for Nabers and he busts. Then we waste picks. We could end up with a 3rd round receiver that ends up having the best career out of any receiver in the past decade.

 

"Difference-maker" won't actually be known for some time. You're just betting on projections. I'd rather keep 15 and find the playmaker that drops to us, and have the other picks. Nabers has a good chance of being a difference-maker. Not a garuntee tho.

If teams/scouts/ the entire staff took the approach that high draft picks can bust and low draft picks can be studs, it becomes a sophisticated dart throw and there isn't much reason to do the extensive analysis they do.  They do it for a reason, and project players accodordingly.  JMO.

[DougDew]

24 minutes ago, smittywerb said:

BP1:  based on our scheme and current personnel, I think we need playmakers at DE, WR, FS, CB (in that order).  we may get one or multiple at DE, WR, and/or CB this draft depending on how it plays out.  I hope we don’t go high on a FS this draft as it has been said this isn’t a good safety draft.

 

BP2:  if we move up to 7, I’m hoping we grab Dallas Turner.  He’s mocked to maybe slide to us at 15 so idk if trading that far up is necessary.  But if he’s available at 15 or if we have to move up, that would be my pick.  I’d personally go WR with our next pick. WR class is deep and could maybe even get a stud.  
 

Note:  I am apart of the Arnold/Mitchell club at pick 15 if the draft plays out that way.  If Turner/Latu are not there.  I’d be hurt about not getting BTJ, but as said above, we can find a good WR to fit our explosive deep threat need in the 2nd (ex. Leggette, worthy)
 

 

Also, my trade of 46 and 15 to 7 was just an example.   We could give up less than pick 46 to move up fewer slots.  So Turner possibly falling to 11 would be an even better value, if we're interested in Turner.

[DougDew]

11 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 The lamentation to trade for a $19M per 4th rounder was very loud here.

Your question is uncharacteristically seemingly off target. We need as many as we can get.

 If we can't get QMitchell,  trading back with AZ. for 27 and 35 should make Ballard twitch. 

So, you are saying that there should be a difference-maker at 15, and that is QMitchell?  The draft runs that deep in difference makers?  (projection of course)

[VikingsFanInChennai]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

Going to reset the convo a bit...as I see it of course.

 

IMO, the top half of the first round is where you find the playmakers...a difference-maker.  The guys that other teams need to plan for, so to speak.

 

• What position(s) on the Colts needs that kind of player?...which means the rookie is intended to displace an existing starter very soon.
• Trade value chart shows that our picks 46 and 15 could get us to pick 7 (assuming TEN would make that trade).  Is there a player you would use pick 46 to trade up for?  Remember, this is a genuine difference-maker.  If its a hit, the pick 46 you give up is peanuts in terms of price.

Positions: DE, WR, CB (in that order), but not sure if Ballard and coaches value these positions that high, but pursuing Hunter and Sneed may indicate so.

 

Unless you trade up for a WR, you don't need to for any other position in this draft class, unless Ballard thinks there's a blue chip player that'd go very high and they want to grab him, for example, Latu or a top CB they wanna grab before anyone else. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

37 pages in, I still  am sticking to drafting Bowers if he is there, if not drafting the best WR on the board at that point. AR needs as much help as he can get. Pittman and Taylor are ballers, I like Downs too, but we need more. 

[throwing BBZ]

34 minutes ago, DougDew said:

So, you are saying that there should be a difference-maker at 15, and that is QMitchell?  The draft runs that deep in difference makers?  (projection of course)

 

 Now we are just having some fun with this of course.

 Latu, Brian Thomas, Latham, Adoni Mitchell, I project to be future kick tail players. DeJean might make a superb Safety.

 There is nothing more important for our offense than to have a dominant o-line. Getting us a RG that is a road grader and excellent pass protector would immediately help with everything thing we do. 

[1959Colts]

Will be interesting to see if the colts will be attending this workout?

 

[NewColtsFan]

12 minutes ago, 1959Colts said:

Will be interesting to see if the colts will be attending this workout?

 

Id be shocked if the Colts aren’t there.   And DeJean is one of my least favorite players in this draft.   But the scouts will want to see him.   

[DougDew]

54 minutes ago, throwing BBZ said:

 

 Now we are just having some fun with this of course.

 Latu, Brian Thomas, Latham, Adoni Mitchell, I project to be future kick tail players. DeJean might make a superb Safety.

 There is nothing more important for our offense than to have a dominant o-line. Getting us a RG that is a road grader and excellent pass protector would immediately help with everything thing we do. 

This draft seems to be very deep at OT.  Do you trade down, take a RT, and move Smith to RG, or draft a G with a low 1st round pick?.  What about C, is French the future?

 

See, with this draft, I think there are many possibilities if you are looking for "very good" positional players.

 

How many elite players are there?   Going back to 2018, this draft isn't a whole lot different.  Looks like there will be 3 QBs taken probably 1-2-3, then the rest.  In 2018, after taking Nelson at 6, Ballard was quoted as saying "we didn't want to trade back further and miss at getting one of the elite players in this draft"   ( He probably meant Nelson, but there was Edwards, Smith ,and I think Derwin James. with Nelson to round out players that were simply viewed as being on a different tier than all of the other "very good" players.)

 

Position aside, because this teams need an elite player somewhere, IMO, who are the players in this draft that are elite to separate from the rest, and would anybody be willing to trade up to get that player?

 

Where does it break?  Pick 7.  Pick 11, 12, 13?  Does the string of elite players go all the way down to 15?  Probably not.

[krunk]

48 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

Id be shocked if the Colts aren’t there.   And DeJean is one of my least favorite players in this draft.   But the scouts will want to see him.   

What don't u like? My thing on him is he is a corner who they say should likely be a safety on this level. So wed be dealing with a guy we are not all the way sure he can play safety. I like a few clips I've seen of him though.

[KB]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

If teams/scouts/ the entire staff took the approach that high draft picks can bust and low draft picks can be studs, it becomes a sophisticated dart throw and there isn't much reason to do the extensive analysis they do.  They do it for a reason, and project players accodordingly.  JMO.

There's a good mix of both from what I gather. Everyone was high on Quenton Johnson last year and the projections didn't match. Not saying he's a bust yet but even as much scouting and research was done he didn't meet first year expectations.

 

Even with the research and extensive analysis there are still busts. The same research provides late round gems that everyone overlooked. Drafting and scouting isn't an exact science. There's a good amount of chance and a little bit of guessing. It's what makes it fun imo.

[NewColtsFan]

10 minutes ago, krunk said:

What don't u like? My thing on him is he is a corner who they say should likely be a safety on this level. So wed be dealing with a guy we are not all the way sure he can play safety. I like a few clips I've seen of him though.

I don’t see him as a corner.  I see DeJean as a safety.  If he’s a corner, I prefer others.  If he’s a safety I don’t want to spend a 1, 2, or 3 on a safety.   This year,  a safety is a Day 3 pick for me.  

[Superman]

2 hours ago, KB said:

IMO, I can only say Nabers would probably be the only true difference maker that could make it to our striking range. He would he a perfect fit in our offense too.

 

I doubt we trade up, especially for a WR in a deep WR draft.

 

And that's the major point, IMO.

 

Let's say the target is Nabers at #7. Is he that much more likely to be a "difference maker" than BTJ or AD Mitchell, who will probably be available at #15 (and likely well beyond)? There's little question that he's the better prospect, but is it worth the premium to move up in the draft for him? Especially when we see 2nd and 3rd round WRs produce right away all the time. 

 

Or let's say the target is Joe Alt. Is he that much better than Fashanu, Latham, etc? 

 

Maybe if they really love Dallas Turner, they see him as the guy that's much better for the defense than Latu, Verse, Chop Robinson... but going up to #7 seems like overkill for him. And again, I think it's questionable if he's that much more likely to be a "difference maker" than the other edge prospects. 

 

Not to mention comparisons across positions. Is Nabers so valuable to us that he's worth giving up extra draft capital, when we'll likely be able to choose from lots of those other prospects above? 

 

Based on how I see this year's draft, the only reason I think a team should move up is if they want a QB. That's the only scenario in which I think it's worth the premium.

[DougDew]

13 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

And that's the major point, IMO.

 

Let's say the target is Nabers at #7. Is he that much more likely to be a "difference maker" than BTJ or AD Mitchell, who will probably be available at #15 (and likely well beyond)? There's little question that he's the better prospect, but is it worth the premium to move up in the draft for him? Especially when we see 2nd and 3rd round WRs produce right away all the time. 

 

Or let's say the target is Joe Alt. Is he that much better than Fashanu, Latham, etc? 

 

Maybe if they really love Dallas Turner, they see him as the guy that's much better for the defense than Latu, Verse, Chop Robinson... but going up to #7 seems like overkill for him. And again, I think it's questionable if he's that much more likely to be a "difference maker" than the other edge prospects. 

 

Not to mention comparisons across positions. Is Nabers so valuable to us that he's worth giving up extra draft capital, when we'll likely be able to choose from lots of those other prospects above? 

 

Based on how I see this year's draft, the only reason I think a team should move up is if they want a QB. That's the only scenario in which I think it's worth the premium.

It depends upon if there is break in the talent.  A bright line between elite and very good.   I think its a reasonable argument to make to give up the next Paye, Dayo, Woods, JuJu, etc. (the players you might get at 46) to get the guy that separates himself from the others.  Not saying that there is that guy, but some of the comments seem to suggest that we stand pat a 15 to simply take the best there, or, to trade down and get more picks with which to take more Dayos later. 

 

I think the main point of being as high as 15 is to position oneself to get an elite player... and explosive player.....and the Colts desperately need one at any one of several positions that it wouldn't matter if it was a WR, a EDGE, or a TE, IMO.

 

If there is not bright line break (as you suggest), like there apparently was in 2018 according to Ballard, then probably trading down is the best option in hopes that a dart throw gets you more chances at getting a stand out player with more 2nd and 3rd round picks, IMO. 

[NewColtsFan]

4 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It depends upon if there is break in the talent.  A bright line between elite and very good.   I think its a reasonable argument to make to give up the next Paye, Dayo, Woods, JuJu, etc. (the players you might get at 46) to get the guy that separates himself from the others.  Not saying that there is that guy, but some of the comments seem to suggest that we stand pat a 15 to simply take the best there, or, to trade down and get more picks with which to take more Dayos later. 

 

I think the main point of being as high as 15 is to positions oneself to get an elite player...and the Colts desperately need one at any one of several positions that it wouldn't matter if it was a WR, a EDGE, or a TE, IMO.

 

If there is not bright line break (as you suggest), like there apparently was in 2018 according to Ballard, then probably trading down is the best option in hopes that a dart throw gets you more chances at getting a stand out player with more 2nd and 3rd round picks, IMO. 

The comment Ballard made the night of the 2018 draft was about Nelson.  It wasn’t about any other player.   

[Superman]

13 minutes ago, DougDew said:

It depends upon if there is break in the talent.  I bright line between elite and very good.   I think its a reasonable argument to make to give up the next Paye, Dayo, Woods, JuJu, etc. to get the guy that separates himself from the others.  Not saying that there is that guy, but some of the comments seem to suggest that we stand pat a 15 to simply take the best there, or, to trade down and get more picks with which to take more Dayos later. 

 

I think the main point of being as high as 15 is to positions oneself to get an elite player...and the Colts desperately need one at any one of several positions that it wouldn't matter if it was a WR, a EDGE, or a TE, IMO.

 

If there is not bright line break, like there apparently was in 2018 according to Ballard, then probably trading down is the best option in hopes that a dart throw gets you more chances at getting a stand out player with more 2nd and 3rd round picks. 

 

So is there a case to be made that there's a player worth moving up from #15 in this year's draft?

 

Without parsing this to death, I mostly agree with the bolded. But how I see it, the top 14 picks will include at least 3 QBs, at least 3 WRs, probably 2 edge/DEs, probably 2 DTs, 2 OTs, and probably the top TE.

 

So you can get the 4th best WR at #15, vs going up to #7 for probably the 2nd or 3rd best WR. Is there a bright line of separation there? Third best edge, third best OT... maybe Bowers falls... 

 

I think you can let the draft fall however it falls, and you'll still be able to choose between 5-7 "elite" prospects at multiple positions with #15. Which is why trading up to get an elite prospect is not compelling to me, this year. 

 

8 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The comment Ballard made the night of the 2018 draft was about Nelson.  It wasn’t about any other player.   

 

And moving from 3# to #6 is a completely different situation. You're still firmly in "elite prospect" territory.

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

The comment Ballard made the night of the 2018 draft was about Nelson.  It wasn’t about any other player.   

He said, "we did not wan to trade back so far as to not get one of the elite players".  There was also some question as to how far Nelson would drop if the Colts did not take him.  

 

If Ballard was focused on Nelson exclusively, he would have had no problems saying that after he picked him.  Its management 101 to pump up the player after he's picked...like he said that AR was his target all along.  If he can say it about AR, he would have said it about Nelson.

 

Edit:  Not to argue about 2018.  My point is that his statement certainly applies to 2024.  The Colts don't really have a "need" other than S.  But they do need an elite player at any one of about 6 or 7 positions.  Trading up to be in a position to get one, any one of 6 positions, seems like a good move, IMO.