Colts offseason discussion / Ballard Grievances (merge)

[AKB]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

A lot of it is luck. I am sure John Lynch after screwing up bigtime with the Lance pick just knew Brock Purdy would be very good with the last pick in the draft 

yeah of course, teams get lucky. some teams get unlucky. but I'm not gonna let the principle of "luck" be it the concept, or the player, be an excuse for ballard anymore. he needs to produce a division title, yesterday

[2006Coltsbestever]

I would love to know what led the Chiefs to trade up to draft Mahomes at #10. Mahomes was good in college but nothing showed he would be in the GOAT convo already with Brady and Peyton.

[DougDew]

26 minutes ago, AKB said:

and the ones that did emerge were at LG, LOLB, an UDFA slot corner, a RG playing RT (albeit at a high level) 

Put RB in that group too.  As someone said before, RB production in the NFL is generally replaceable.  The same can generally be said about LG and LOLB, and probably slot corner.  Not as replaceable as RB, but more easily replaceable than other positions where those good players can generally only be found in the draft, because they hardly ever become available otherwise. 

 

I hope OP realizes that my responses address the building through the draft term and how I think its used.  At least that was my intent.

[Nate!]

16 minutes ago, AKB said:

I disagree, but well thought out response. they lost their franchise QB and did something about it. We lost ours and remained in QB purgatory for half a decare+, they are clearly more aggressive, and there are multiple other teams we can point to outside of HOU. the HOU discussion really was just a rabbithole I got pulled into with NCF, but they clearly were aggressive to get their QB, plus their Edge, and also won the division. Luck is involved in every sport, not just football, however people still get judged by their outcomes. and here's ours. 

 

less than .500 in wins since ballard, and 0 division titles. 

 

so maybe, we should try and get lucky with a new GM, cause ballard's seems to have run out after he took Leonard 

They did something about it as their team was absolutely awful after their franchise QB became a rapist.  Then got insane draft capital for the rapist.  The problem was the Colts were in better shape when Luck quit so the team took a lot longer to bottom out and even with that, they still weren’t as bad as the Texans.  If Luck had decided to commit crimes like Watson and demanded a trade where the Colts could’ve collected an insane amount of draft capital, they’d be even better shape.  Unfortunately for the Colts brass, Luck didn’t become a rapist like Deshaun.

[AKB]

5 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Put RB in that group too.  As someone said before, RB production in the NFL is generally replaceable.  The same can generally be said about LG and LOLB, and probably slot corner.  Not as replaceable as RB, but more easily replaceable than other positions where those good players can generally only be found in the draft, because they hardly ever become available otherwise. 

 

I hope OP realizes that my responses address the building through the draft term and how I think its used.  At least that was my intent.

yeah just forgot about JT we could say pittman is at a premium spot, but like most said he isn't a 1 on a lot of teams that contend. so 

[AKB]

3 minutes ago, Nate! said:

They did something about it as their team was absolutely awful after their franchise QB became a rapist.  Then got insane draft capital for the rapist.  The problem was the Colts were in better shape when Luck quit so the team took a lot longer to bottom out and even with that, they still weren’t as bad as the Texans.  If Luck had decided to commit crimes like Watson and demanded a trade where the Colts could’ve collected an insane amount of draft capital, they’d be even better shape.  Unfortunately for the Colts brass, Luck didn’t become a rapist like Deshaun.

so be mad at the NFL for letting them trade a player with active allegations, they made the right choice for their organization, don't see how that has anything to do with luck. I'm able to think about it with you, and I see the line you're drawing, I just don't agree with the conclusion. 

 

because if they hadn't traded him, they would've lived with the consequence of the invest. conclusion. hope that explains my viewpoint on it well enough 

[Zoltan]

5 hours ago, VikingsFanInChennai said:

It doesn't matter if not even 1 person would say Colts are contenders...

 

But, if that's not the goal, what is?

 

And, when would that happen? Is there any indication that Colts are going forward on right track to get there?

 

Yes, Houston isn't a contender either but they got on right track already in very few years from a dumpster fire.

 

Do you get the point? Not 20 teams can be a contender, but only few of those 20 get in right track, and many just stay around the average all the time... And, Colts - apart from having hope in QB situation now - are just average in many other position groups in the roster. 

 

I would disagree with @2006Coltsbestever, we can be contenders and maybe even reach the Super Bowl. We could also be the worst team in the league, that's just the range of play when you have a young unproven QB like ours. The fact is Anthony Richardson will either make us great or not because it's a QB driven league, the chiefs probably don't even make the playoffs if mahomes is replaced with an average QB. As a Vikings fan you are kind of in the same boat with Cousins gone and looking at a rookie QB or Darnold.

 

As for are we on the right track absolutely, we had a top 10 scoring offense with a backup QB, and if we can improve our deep pass with AR than it could even better next year. The biggest question-mark is defense, but we still have plenty of time of making improvements through FA and the draft and even then they don't have to be top 10, just top 20.

[Jason_]

3 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Normally I can understand where Ballard is coming from with decisions. The one year he let Autry and Houston  go because we had so many young guys we had used high picks on and they needed to play. While that didn’t completely work and least I can understand with the high draft picks we had used. It makes zero sense to be so in on 7th round and undrafted guys. You should not be banking on a high ceiling from them. If they were projected to have a high ceiling   they would have been drafted or went higher. It rarely works your going to get a really good starter in these incidences.

 

How many different ways are you going to say the same thing?

[2006Coltsbestever]

24 minutes ago, Zoltan said:

 

I would disagree with @2006Coltsbestever, we can be contenders and maybe even reach the Super Bowl. We could also be the worst team in the league, that's just the range of play when you have a young unproven QB like ours. The fact is Anthony Richardson will either make us great or not because it's a QB driven league, the chiefs probably don't even make the playoffs if mahomes is replaced with an average QB. As a Vikings fan you are kind of in the same boat with Cousins gone and looking at a rookie QB or Darnold.

 

As for are we on the right track absolutely, we had a top 10 scoring offense with a backup QB, and if we can improve our deep pass with AR than it could even better next year. The biggest question-mark is defense, but we still have plenty of time of making improvements through FA and the draft and even then they don't have to be top 10, just top 20.

Good post. 

[dw49]

1 hour ago, AKB said:

and the ones that did emerge were at LG, LOLB, an UDFA slot corner, a RG playing RT (albeit at a high level) 

oh no sorry you misunderstood me, i know your OP will attract us to complain, so I was just saying they've been merging ballard complaints into one mega thread, no issues ith you at all dw49 id love to talk to you about how mediocre ballard is all day 

 

 

I get it and you are correct

[Hoose]

2 hours ago, KB said:

I figured DT would be off the board after acquiring Davis. Boyd would be a good one to develop if he can be had in rd 5 or 6.

Agree. He’d be a great developmental player. He has promise. 

[RollerColt]

12 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

And the owner says we’re all in when they’re not. I don’t understand why so many defend the owner on here. He’s done a lot of questionable things throughout the years right Mr. Luck.

I’m not even defending Irsay either. I’m just stating the reality of the situation. You can hate Irsay all you want, but you have 0 control of him and the team. 

[GoColts8818]

31 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

And the owner says we’re all in when they’re not. I don’t understand why so many defend the owner on here. He’s done a lot of questionable things throughout the years right Mr. Luck.

Because again people heard what they wanted with the “all chips in” comment.  He was alluding to he didn’t think the team had been fully committed the previous season and held Wentz largely accountable for that.  When he made that comment he was saying Matt Ryan was fully committed and would help the team be fully committed.

 

it was never meant as a comment about roster building as has been explained several times.

 

As for why do people defend him?  They remember what the Colts were like under his father who was truly a bad owner.  Jim Irsay has put a winning team on the field way more often than not as Owner.  That’s why people like him as Owner.

 

As for her personal life I think even the most loyal Colts fan will admit Irsay has demons that haunt him.   They aren’t proud of it.  No one defends his demons.  They might feel empathy for him but they don’t defend them.  They just wish him the best fighting it because what else can they do?  He’s not going to sell the team and they aren’t going to stop being Colts fans.  

[BlackTiger]

1 hour ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I would love to know what led the Chiefs to trade up to draft Mahomes at #10

They have told that story.  Mahomes had info that other teams were going to draft him and I think he just wanted to go Andy Reid.  They said one of the coaches leaked him the play book so he could ace his first interview with AR, they laugh about this now

 

They wanted an upgrade from alex smith, he aced the interview and told them directly he was going to get taken if they didnt trade for him.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, BlackTiger said:

They have told that story.  Mahomes had info that other teams were going to draft him and I think he just wanted to go Andy Reid.  They said one of the coaches leaked him the play book so he could ace his first interview with AR, they laugh about this now

 

They wanted an upgrade from alex smith, he aced the interview and told them directly he was going to get taken if they didnt trade for him.

Thanks, Alex Smith was good too. He had winning seasons and won a few playoff games. To do what the Chiefs did took balls and was beyond smart looking at it now.

[BeanDiasucci]

24 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I’m not even defending Irsay either. I’m just stating the reality of the situation. You can hate Irsay all you want, but you have 0 control of him and the team. 

 

So we should only share opinions about things about the team we have some control over? Isn't that going to limit the conversation a bit?

 

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

 

So we should only share opinions about things about the team we have some control over? Isn't that going to limit the conversation a bit?

 

Hey by all means share away, I’m not the owner of this site. But if people are demanding Chris be let go and for Irsay to change his ways, well… they’re going to be waiting for some time. 
 

It’s about the same as yelling at the sky really. People are free to do it, but it doesn’t really change much. Maybe they feel better afterwards?

[ColtStrong2013]

6 hours ago, AKB said:

ballard would've been fired on a lot of teams by now

Ballard would have had a competent qb on a lot of teams that would have solved his biggest problem… But that’s about as irrelevant as your statement, isn’t it? 

[VikingsFanInChennai]

5 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

He just wants to fight and win arguments on the internet.  

If Ballard drafts the best QB of the class, and trades up to get the best regarded Edge Rusher of the draft in back-to-back picks, and it mostly works out in very first year itself, and if someone else calls that as LUCK, the "Optimist guys" like you would be fuming on how negative people are.

 

Yet, you do the same and call that poster as "fighting to win arguments" if someone points out that a division rival GM doing the same isn't Luck. 

 

This forum gets crazy day by day, ironically because of guys who want positivity. 

[Blueblood23]

8 hours ago, RollerColt said:

I’m not even defending Irsay either. I’m just stating the reality of the situation. You can hate Irsay all you want, but you have 0 control of him and the team. 

I’m saying with a different owner there’s a good chance of better results. Colts play in a weak division for the past several years and not much to show for it. Ballard just giving more money to their own players year after year has not been a formula for success either. He better score big on this years draft or Jim should show him the door. 

[ColtStrong2013]

3 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I’m saying with a different owner there’s a good chance of better results. Colts play in a weak division for the past several years and not much to show for it. Ballard just giving more money to their own players year after year has not been a formula for success either. He better score big on this years draft or Jim should show him the door. 

I don’t think you have paid attention to the results of the new owners of the league. Not good, at all. And some of the wealthiest ones at that. The Walton’s put an entire team together in Denver and it’s been nothing less than a disaster. David tepper in Carolina is the worst owner in the league, but has about as much as anyone. Washington will always be a disaster. 

[Blueblood23]

8 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

I don’t think you have paid attention to the results of the new owners of the league. Not good, at all. And some of the wealthiest ones at that. The Walton’s put an entire team together in Denver and it’s been nothing less than a disaster. David tepper in Carolina is the worst owner in the league, but has about as much as anyone. Washington will always be a disaster. 

I’m suggesting his daughter would be an improvement. You are absolutely right about Denver and Carolina.

[DougDew]

3 hours ago, OhioColt said:

Since Ballard has been here, my own take, but looking back over Ballard's draft classes with the Club he has made some impressive selections.  Sad to see good to great players leave like Walker then Okereke.  The Colts again imo could use Okereke over Franklin.  Even easier to go back in time and say we should of someone different.  Draft-wise Ballard I give an A grade since he has been here.

Curious, why does a GM let these great players leave if they were so great or were not replaceable?   Seems like he's drafting good/great players at positions that can more easily be found in a the draft.  Finding the lower hanging fruit and reaping genius like compliments...at least in the past.

 

And not picking on you, but I also read comments where "every GM has misses".  Their average is about 52/48.  Fine.  Then if his misses are describes as "just happened to not work out"...why wouldn't the hits equally be described as "just happened to work out" but instead are described as some great find?  Is Raimann, the guy that was picked after struggling AP and Woods, a great find, or, is he " just happening to be working out" whereas AP and maybe Woods are "just happening to not be working out" and should be chalked up to simple averages?  (Of course we'll know more as time passes, but the context of the comments are accurate so far, IMO)

 

Not just with Ballard, but with all talk of GMs, it seems like their 52 hits are because a GM is great, but the 48 misses are just the law of averages and the GM being a victim of the environment.  Seems tilted to me.

[Defjamz26]

14 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Who?

Rick Spielman and Tom Telesco.

[GoColts8818]

9 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

Because again people heard what they wanted with the “all chips in” comment.  He was alluding to he didn’t think the team had been fully committed the previous season and held Wentz largely accountable for that.  When he made that comment he was saying Matt Ryan was fully committed and would help the team be fully committed.

 

it was never meant as a comment about roster building as has been explained several times.

 

As for why do people defend him?  They remember what the Colts were like under his father who was truly a bad owner.  Jim Irsay has put a winning team on the field way more often than not as Owner.  That’s why people like him as Owner.

 

As for her personal life I think even the most loyal Colts fan will admit Irsay has demons that haunt him.   They aren’t proud of it.  No one defends his demons.  They might feel empathy for him but they don’t defend them.  They just wish him the best fighting it because what else can they do?  He’s not going to sell the team and they aren’t going to stop being Colts fans.  

Clearly I meant his personal life.  Typo on my part.

[ColtStrong2013]

39 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

I’m suggesting his daughter would be an improvement. You are absolutely right about Denver and Carolina.

 

His daughters are owners... and have a lot more influence than you are crediting.

[ColtStrong2013]

19 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Curious, why does a GM let these great players leave if they were so great or were not replaceable?   Seems like he's drafting good/great players at positions that can more easily be found in a the draft.  Finding the lower hanging fruit and reaping genius like compliments...at least in the past.

 

They let Okereke go because they had Franklin as a much cheaper replacement... But the big reason was because of the money that was tied up in Leonard, who was Andrew Luck on defense. Nothing but lingering injuries and staring down an early retirement. 

[BlackTiger]

Houston did get lucky.  The browns gave them way too much for DW, they also tanked a year or two and used those picks to get a good qb and edge

[DougDew]

32 minutes ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

They let Okereke go because they had Franklin as a much cheaper replacement... But the big reason was because of the money that was tied up in Leonard, who was Andrew Luck on defense. Nothing but lingering injuries and staring down an early retirement. 

It fits though.  LB is a position, IMO, that can generally be replaced by a drafted player.  "Chase ball and run fast and hit player hard" is something that can generally be accomplished by a player coming out of college.  They know how to do that.  

 

Its the NFL coverages that takes more talent/skill and more time.  Of course, that's the area where our are newly resigned LB struggles.

[CoachLite]

It seems that the problem the Colts face extends across drafting, keeping great and good players, and getting free agents to sign on with the team. This probably has to do with a continual commitment to putting a quality team on the field, year after year, given the Colts are a small market team. If you have a history of hiring bumpkins for coaching and general managers (I'll leave unnamed), it says to current players and prospects: "Either run or stay away!". There are problems in the culture. No matter the reality, changing that perception will take decades, if it can ever be done. I think the Colts are trying, but they have been their own worst enemy.

 

Good players will want to leave (what they feel is) an inconsistent and uncommitted organization. Once good players who are past their prime will want top dollar even to consider coming here. We have to pay more for mediocrity. Doesn't that sound like where we are today?

 

I don't know whether Ballard and Steichen are good or bad at their jobs. It's too soon to judge (even Ballard). They are fighting history. They have to be great at their jobs to overcome that history, and that is the question. But that requires an obvious commitment to the future as well to prevent slipping back into the Colts historical tendencies.

[DougDew]

22 minutes ago, BlackTiger said:

Houston did get lucky.  The browns gave them way too much for DW, they also tanked a year or two and used those picks to get a good qb and edge

Just going back to the DW fraud fiasco,.  It seems shrewd on HOU part, who never once said a bad word about DW....but frequently that they would like to have him back.

 

I thought CLE was a last minute bidder in the DW sweepstakes where DW sort of chose CLE because of the fully guaranteed contract part.  The draft pick compensation to HOU was already settled between 3 or 4 teams, IIRC.  

[GoColts8818]

16 minutes ago, CoachLite said:

Good players will want to leave (what they feel is) an inconsistent and uncommitted organization. Once good players who are past their prime will want top dollar even to consider coming here. We have to pay more for mediocrity. Doesn't that sound like where we are today?

No because the Colts have had no problem keeping good players.  In fact that’s a large crutch of the anti-Ballard movement is that he keeps too many of his own players.  
 

As for the other part free agents almost always go to the highest bidder.  So over spending in free agency to get players is not a problem that only the Colts face, that’s why some teams, like the Colts have made the decision to use it sparingly.  I know it’s not popular right now but it’s who Ballard is and clearly the direction Irsay wants.  Again, fans don’t have to like it but expecting it to change every year just isn’t acknowledging reality.  

[tfunky14]

15 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

Didn't this roster just go 9-8 with a backup qb for 12 weeks?  Sure seems like a good roster

Finally someone that sees the positive of keeping your own and find talent in the draft. 

[r a y s k i]

If people want free agency warriors as their team, there is plenty of out there. Deal with it, Indy has never been an FA team, it isn't a Ballard thing, fans being surprised about this must have been here for about 5 mins

[GoColts8818]

5 minutes ago, r a y s k i said:

If people want free agency warriors as their team, there is plenty of out there. Deal with it, Indy has never been an FA team, it isn't a Ballard thing, fans being surprised about this must have been here for about 5 mins

The closet that has come to that was Grigson who was the worst GM the Colts have had under Irsay as Owner.  If he hadn’t had Andrew Luck those teams would have been like the Bob Irsay Colts who were just awful.  Then he ruined Andrew Luck’s career by not getting the right players around him yet that’s the model so many seem to want to go back too.

[throwing BBZ]

18 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It was a philosophical question. We're not trading for JJ, especially not with Pittman at $23m/year (although I'd point out that's only a 23% increase, and I'd argue JJ is worth the premium).

 

I guess this is your answer below... 

 

 

That's logical. This is how you build a good roster and manage the cap wisely to keep that roster together. You'll make the playoffs most years. It's basically what the Chiefs and Ravens are doing. 

 

I think there's one flaw in this approach. In any given year, there's a team like the Rams or Bucs from 3-4 years ago, or like the Browns or Eagles right now, spending cash way over cap, to try to push their way to the top of the league. They know they'll have to reset and get rid of some players in a couple years, but they hope to increase their odds to compete for a short period of time. And if they win a SB, then it's worth it.

 

The Chiefs have one of the most special QBs of all time. The Ravens have a two time MVP at QB. I would say both teams draft better than the Colts (especially the Ravens), and Steichen is still new but for right now I'd say they're both better coached as well. Their margin for error is much greater than ours. 

 

The way you offset having a $30m WR is to draft well multiple years in a row, have a good HC, and have a really good QB. And that just so happens to be the formula for success in the NFL in general. 

 

 

 When we have our top 8 QB in 2025 and our roster looks overall really solid, we can trade for our Tyreke and go "all out". I would have to go back and look to see how far Tyreke has carried the Dolphins in the playoffs.

 Unfortunately, our Colts big all out move was to trade for a SB caliber Wentz, then following that with a very large financial commitment at the time for Ryan. Ballard went big for it and face planted. Frankified! I have no doubt Irsay listened to Frank and agreed that is how he wanted to go.

 So Every 3-4 years rosters churn 75-80% by nature.

Fans complaining Ballard is doing the same thing as over his prior 7 years must account that we are still early in the post Frank reboot. New HC, finally have our Great QB prospect, only 1 new draft class under our belt. But what we do have is a pretty good core of in their prime veterans that can play good  football. We have a 8-9 2nd, 3rd, and 4th year players that can be expected to play better than last year. With 2-3 good draft picks coming and no doubt a veteran safety, our Colts should be a tough out on any given Sunday.

 We can see the competition getting tougher now in our own division so that alone is our important opportunity for iron to sharpen iron. Survive the gauntlet and we just might be a contender. This coming season, one wouldn't think so based on our overall need for improvement. 

 But I think our offense is going to be rather good 👍  so...

[Blueblood23]

1 hour ago, ColtStrong2013 said:

 

His daughters are owners... and have a lot more influence than you are crediting.

We don’t know that.

[throwing BBZ]

13 hours ago, Nate! said:

Well, they got lucky their franchise QB turned out to be a rapist and demand a trade which netted them the god awful teams and additional draft capital to do said moves.  Would’ve been lucky for the Colts if Luck had done that instead of just quit to where the Colts got absolutely nothing for that.   
 

Texans did get lucky.  The staff of the Panthers wanted Stroud, but the owner went executive decision and overruled them.  Had that not happened, Stroud is in Carolina, Bryce likely in Houston and the situations look completely different.

 

again though, they got extremely lucky their franchise QB became a rapist, demanded a trade, and then immediately became injury prone and no longer talented as a QB

 

 Actually, Stroud would have looked very mediocre and Young might have won ROYear.

[RollerColt]

17 minutes ago, Blueblood23 said:

We don’t know that.

We also have no idea if they’re any better than their father. We’ll find out eventually. 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

16 hours ago, RollerColt said:

He’s not getting fired man… it’s not happening… I’m not defending him but I’m being realistic. The owner says he stays, and that’s that…

 

I used to be really upset over free agency and the draft and all that stuff too. 

 

Even.when Ballard leaves the odds his replacement are highly against him doing things differently/better.