Michael Pittman

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

20 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

Pierce and Pittman would both benefit from some stability at the QB position. I hope both get better as more of the playbook is opened up to AR, but Pierce needs to start making the big boy catches and Pittman needs to be a playmaker for 60 mins. not just a quarter.

Pittman leads the league in targets and catches. Nothing wring wrong with his consistancy. Pierce need more targets. 

[Dingus McGirt]

1 hour ago, Solid84 said:

Well, a WR1 is just the guy with most catches.

 

A "true" WR1 is your main playmaker. The guy who makes the difficult catches, who has the big plays and makes the grabs down field. Pittman is a workhorse and gets some tough yards, but he's not a deep threat. That and he can just disappear for several quarters of a game.

 

I know he's had some bad luck with the QB carousel, but so has other WRs on arguably worse teams who still made things happen.

Several is defined as “more than two.”

 

 

[Solid84]

18 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Pittman leads the league in targets and catches. Nothing wring wrong with his consistancy. Pierce need more targets. 

He does not.

 

Keenan Allen, Puka Nacua, Justin Jefferson, Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill all have more targets. Allen, Nacua and Jefferson have more catches. Adams and Hill have the same catches as Pittman.

 

20 minutes ago, Dingus McGirt said:

Several is defined as “more than two.”

 

 

Which 3 is. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

He does not.

 

Keenan Allen, Puka Nacua, Justin Jefferson, Davante Adams and Tyreek Hill all have more targets. Allen, Nacua and Jefferson have more catches. Adams and Hill have the same catches as Pittman.

 

Which 3 is. 

Made a slight mistake there. But he is too 5. I believe he is the only player this year to have 8 targets every game. People need to differentiate between inconsistency and targets. If you don’t get targets you can’t catch the ball. 

[w87r]

Since 2020, 12 TDs in 49 games. 

 

 

He ranks well outside of the top 20 WRs in that category.

 

The 20th most by a wr over that time span, has 19 TDs.

 

Not even sure exactly where Pittman ranks in this category, this site only show top 25 for free, and 5 of those are TEs. With a 7 TD difference though, there are bound to be quite a few more WRs before Pittman gets on the board with his 12.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-td-receptions-since-2020

 

 

 

He needs to start scoring more TDs.

 

 

 

Chase has 22 TDs in 32 games for a reference.

 

Waddle has 14 in 35 games.

 

Kupp 25 in 41 games

 

 

 

Receptions are great, but there is a different being a #1 target on a team(23.3% of all target last year went his way, almost 1 in 4 passes), and being a true #1 WR. Of course he is going to have inflated reception stats, yep still didn't get 1,000yds.

 

 

Gotta get in the end zone more 

 

 

And I'm well aware of the QB issues.

 

Even in his best "TD" season he only scored a TD once every 3 games, he averages one every 4 games for his career. Needs to step this up.

 

10.9 yards per catch isn't getting it done either.

[Solid84]

2 minutes ago, w87r said:

Since 2020, 12 TDs in 49 games. 

 

 

He ranks well outside of the top 20 WRs in that category.

 

The 20th most by a wr over that time span, has 19 TDs.

 

Not even sure exactly where Pittman ranks in this category, this site only show top 25 for free, and 5 of those are TEs. With a 7 TD difference though, there are bound to be quite a few more WRs before Pittman gets on the board with his 12.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-td-receptions-since-2020

 

 

 

He needs to start scoring more TDs.

 

 

 

Chase has 22 TDs in 32 games for a reference.

 

Waddle has 14 in 35 games.

 

Kupp 25 in 41 games

 

 

 

Receptions are great, but there is a different being a #1 target on a team(23.3% of all target last year went his way, almost 1 in 4 passes), and being a true #1 WR. Of course he is going to have inflated reception stats, yep still didn't get 1,000yds.

 

 

Gotta get in the end zone more 

 

 

And I'm well aware of the QB issues.

 

Even in his best "TD" season he only scored a TD once every 3 games, he averages one every 4 games for his career. Needs to step this up.

 

10.9 yards per catch isn't getting it done either.

I like Pittman, but there's just somethings about him that sticks out like a sore thumb. TDs is one of them.

 

I don't know if it's down to playcalling, but for a guy who's strength is supposed to be "going up to get it" he's not been a redzone threat so far.

[w87r]

Just now, Solid84 said:

I like Pittman, but there's just somethings about him that sticks out like a sore thumb. TDs is one of them.

 

I don't know if it's down to playcalling, but for a guy who's strength is supposed to be "going up to get it" he's not been a redzone threat so far.

I like Pittman too.

 

 

I like him a lot more at $18m than I do $22-$25m though.

 

 

Personally for me, my #1 WR needs to average 7-12 TD catches a year. That is what Pittman has in 3+ seasons total.

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

11 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

I like Pittman, but there's just somethings about him that sticks out like a sore thumb. TDs is one of them.

 

I don't know if it's down to playcalling, but for a guy who's strength is supposed to be "going up to get it" he's not been a redzone threat so far.

Having not had the same QB has hurt him. He actually has been pretty consistant when you think about all of the QB he has played with.

[2006Coltsbestever]

19 minutes ago, w87r said:

Since 2020, 12 TDs in 49 games. 

 

 

He ranks well outside of the top 20 WRs in that category.

 

The 20th most by a wr over that time span, has 19 TDs.

 

Not even sure exactly where Pittman ranks in this category, this site only show top 25 for free, and 5 of those are TEs. With a 7 TD difference though, there are bound to be quite a few more WRs before Pittman gets on the board with his 12.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-td-receptions-since-2020

 

 

 

He needs to start scoring more TDs.

 

 

 

Chase has 22 TDs in 32 games for a reference.

 

Waddle has 14 in 35 games.

 

Kupp 25 in 41 games

 

 

 

Receptions are great, but there is a different being a #1 target on a team(23.3% of all target last year went his way, almost 1 in 4 passes), and being a true #1 WR. Of course he is going to have inflated reception stats, yep still didn't get 1,000yds.

 

 

Gotta get in the end zone more 

 

 

And I'm well aware of the QB issues.

 

Even in his best "TD" season he only scored a TD once every 3 games, he averages one every 4 games for his career. Needs to step this up.

 

10.9 yards per catch isn't getting it done either.

I agree with pretty much everything you just posted except you do have to factor since Pittman has been drafted, we have been a run 1st offense. Taylor had 20 TD's in 2021. If Taylor wasn't on the team, I am sure Pittman would have more TD's by now because he does catch a lot of balls. He had 88 catches in 2021 and 99 last year, 99 with bad QB play is pretty good. I think he is a #1 WR but it depends on how someone wants to define a #1? If you are comparing him to Jefferson, Chase, Hill, Adams, Diggs, (Kupp when healthy) or even Kelce who is a TE, then one could say, maybe he isn't but those are all Elite pass catchers. It is also easy for someone to say a guy like Waddle or Higgins is better but they have great WR's opposite of them, makes their job easier. Pittman does not have that luxury.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Pittman needs a guy like chase in the other side. Getting 22 mullion is the market for Pittman. If we can draft a James chase for the other side like bengals have Higgins and chase we are good.  He is the leader of that WR group and is tough as nails. I get so tired of this number one debate. Every team needs two great WR. You don’t not sign Pittman because he isn’t Jamar chase. You look for his partner.

[w87r]

10 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I agree with pretty much everything you just posted except you do have to factor since Pittman has been drafted, we have been a run 1st offense. Taylor had 20 TD's in 2021. If Taylor wasn't on the team, I am sure Pittman would have more TD's by now because he does catch a lot of balls. He had 88 catches in 2021 and 99 last year, 99 with bad QB play is pretty good. I think he is a #1 WR but it depends on how someone wants to define a #1? If you are comparing him to Jefferson, Chase, Hill, Adams, Diggs, (Kupp when healthy) or even Kelce who is a TE, then one could say, maybe he isn't but those are all Elite pass catchers. It is also easy for someone to say a guy like Waddle or Higgins is better but they have great WR's opposite of them, makes their job easier. Pittman does not have that luxury.

We were:

58/42 pass/rush in 2022

51/49 pass/rush in 2021

55/45 pass/rush in 2020

 

 

Haven't been a rush 1st team at all in his career.

[2006Coltsbestever]

3 minutes ago, w87r said:

We were:

58/42 pass/rush in 2022

51/49 pass/rush in 2021

55/45 pass/rush in 2020

 

 

Haven't been a rush 1st team at all in his career.

List the other teams numbers if you have them. I would bet we have the run the ball more than the other teams that have the WR's that are considered Elite I listed, that was my point. Ok, you got me and 51/49 in 2021 is about as close as you can get. The numbers you listed are still pretty close numbers and you know as well as I do, we have used Taylor a lot to set up the pass. Most team's setup the run by passing, we have been the opposite of most teams. Are you going too say Tennessee isn't run 1st? I bet they have similar numbers to what we do. If they don't I would be surprised. They run Henry a lot to setup the pass.

[GoColts8818]

To me I think Pittman is a number one WR but not a superstar WR.  Colts fans have been spoiled by having a superstar WR longer than we have had a superstar QB.  It went Marvin to Wayne who are Hall of Famers to Hilton.  All three of those guys were superstars so that’s what we are used to as fans and what our expectations for a number one WR have become.  I remember in the days when Bill Brooks, Floyd Turner, or Sean Dawkins was the number one WR.  That’s closer to where the Colts are with Pittman.  A number one but not a superstar.

 

Would I like Pittman to become the Colts number two WR?  Sure I would because that probably means they have a superstar next to him and that can only make things better.  
 

Still Pittman’s performance has warranted him getting paid and he’s going to either by the Colts or someone else.  I don’t see Ballard letting both of Richardson’s best two weapons leave in the same season/off-season and they are already facing the possibility of losing Taylor so I expect Pittman to get extended.

 

Also, I think people have a different definition of what people call a number one WR.  For some it’s what I would call superstar player.  For others it’s the teams top WR which Pittman clearly is.  I think when it comes to paying WRs NFL teams don’t care if a guy is a number one or number two they want guys who help their offense and if they do they get paid and there is no question Pittman does that for the Colts offense.

 

Honestly I find the debate to what he is kinda silly.  It’s not like if he’s labeled a number one the Colts are going to pass on a chance to get a better WR if one presents itself.  By the same token if he’s labeled a number two WR I don’t think it’s going to impact the Colts paying him.  So call him what you want.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

We were:

58/42 pass/rush in 2022

51/49 pass/rush in 2021

55/45 pass/rush in 2020

 

 

Haven't been a rush 1st team at all in his career.

I looked it up and teams like Miami, Cincy, Minnesota, and KC all have a much higher pass to run ratio than we did last year = Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins. Jefferson, and Kelce. Regarding Tennessee, the last 2 years they are roughly 50/50. Barely on the run side of it much like we were in 2021. 

 

No big deal really, I just wanted to point out, having Taylor score 20 TDs in 2021 took away from most our WR's scoring. We have still been a team that runs 1st to set up the pass, that ratio you posted has a lot to do with us playing from behind as well. 

[OLD FAN MAN]

5 hours ago, w87r said:

Since 2020, 12 TDs in 49 games. 

 

 

He ranks well outside of the top 20 WRs in that category.

 

The 20th most by a wr over that time span, has 19 TDs.

 

Not even sure exactly where Pittman ranks in this category, this site only show top 25 for free, and 5 of those are TEs. With a 7 TD difference though, there are bound to be quite a few more WRs before Pittman gets on the board with his 12.

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/most-td-receptions-since-2020

 

 

 

He needs to start scoring more TDs.

 

 

 

Chase has 22 TDs in 32 games for a reference.

 

Waddle has 14 in 35 games.

 

Kupp 25 in 41 games

 

 

 

Receptions are great, but there is a different being a #1 target on a team(23.3% of all target last year went his way, almost 1 in 4 passes), and being a true #1 WR. Of course he is going to have inflated reception stats, yep still didn't get 1,000yds.

 

 

Gotta get in the end zone more 

 

 

And I'm well aware of the QB issues.

 

Even in his best "TD" season he only scored a TD once every 3 games, he averages one every 4 games for his career. Needs to step this up.

 

10.9 yards per catch isn't getting it done either.

ballard wont pay the money for elite super stars. pittman is our number one , ballard says it is not about one player

[Dark Superman]

MPJ is solid on and off the field and deserves a nice lengthy contract extension from the Colts this off-season. He's suffered through the QB circus carousel over the past four seasons and never once complained or asked for a trade. People complain that he's not a top 10-15 WR in the league, but to me his value toward the team and its future is significant. I would be more than fine paying him anywhere between 15-20 million a season in order to keep him throughout the entirety of AR5's rookie deal. The Colts can afford to overpay guys like Pittman and Taylor if they choose to while guys like Richardson, Raimann, and Franklin, aren't currently riding big contracts. Man, if the Colts can manage to keep Pittman, and bring JT back and get on board while being able to bring in another reliable play-making receiving weapon to compliment MPJ as the #1 or #2 while they have their rookie QB on his rookie contract, that would be HUGE for the franchise and the growth of Anthony Richardson moving forward.

 

PAY MPJ!

[smittywerb]

10 hours ago, Solid84 said:

I like Pittman, but there's just somethings about him that sticks out like a sore thumb. TDs is one of them.

 

I don't know if it's down to playcalling, but for a guy whose strength is supposed to be "going up to get it" he's not been a redzone threat so far.

TD and YPC is what sticks out to me.  The last game against the ravens he showed WR1 abilities.  Not eye popping stat wise but he made plays when needed.  I’m hoping as Shane let the Reigns off of AR, we get to see more deep throws.

 

my worry is his speed.  He doesn’t have that speed to separate down the field.  

[w87r]

9 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I looked it up and teams like Miami, Cincy, Minnesota, and KC all have a much higher pass to run ratio than we did last year = Hill/Waddle, Chase/Higgins. Jefferson, and Kelce. Regarding Tennessee, the last 2 years they are roughly 50/50. Barely on the run side of it much like we were in 2021. 

 

No big deal really, I just wanted to point out, having Taylor score 20 TDs in 2021 took away from most our WR's scoring. We have still been a team that runs 1st to set up the pass, that ratio you posted has a lot to do with us playing from behind as well. 

There's not enough excuses in the book for 12 TDs over 3+ years to be ok for a #1 WR, at least in my eyes. 

 

 

I like Pittman, I don't see how we let him leave. He is off to a good start, I fully expect him to put up great reception numbers this year and even break 1000yds, but he needs to get more TDs and improve his YPC.

 

 

So far this year he is scoring a TD 1 every 3 games.(on pace for 6)

 

If he doesn't score this week he will be on his career average 1 every 4 games.(would be on pace for 4)

 

He is also at a career low in ypc(9.2) and 1st down conversion rate(33%). Even worse than last year with that QB debacle.

 

 

1 in 3 catches are resulting in a first down this year

 

Been better than 1 in 2 catches the rest of his career.

 

 

Pace means very little, and it's early, but 2 trends are continuing so far. Low ypc and low TDs scored, and can't say I'm too fond of the first down rate dropping either.

 

[throwing BBZ]

14 minutes ago, w87r said:

There's not enough excuses in the book for 12 TDs over 3+ years to be ok for a #1 WR, at least in my eyes. 

 

 

I like Pittman, I don't see how we let him leave. He is off to a good start, I fully expect him to put up great reception numbers this year and even break 1000yds, but he needs to get more TDs and improve his YPC.

 

 

So far this year he is scoring a TD 1 every 3 games.(on pace for 6)

 

If he doesn't score this week he will be on his career average 1 every 4 games.(would be on pace for 4)

 

He is also at a career low in ypc(9.2) and 1st down conversion rate(33%). Even worse than last year with that QB debacle.

 

 

1 in 3 catches are resulting in a first down this year

 

Been better than 1 in 2 catches the rest of his career.

 

 

Pace means very little, and it's early, but 2 trends are continuing so far. Low ypc and low TDs scored, and can't say I'm too fond of the first down rate dropping either.

 

 

 Do you Ever see Pittman get his defender swisted up and wide open.

Finally, he did it last game and we saw 2 defenders have the speed to be all over him for his miracle catch.

 Ballard has wasted years of treasure and time trying to develop his model of big, high point receivers rather than finding quicker, faster guys that can get themselves open in man to man.

 Getting into holes that defenses Allow in zone is a very modest skill set.

  Pittman proving this season that he is a 1st down, touchdown guy is a difficult one with a rookie QB that is hesitant and lacks pin point accuracy.

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, w87r said:

There's not enough excuses in the book for 12 TDs over 3+ years to be ok for a #1 WR, at least in my eyes. 

 

 

I like Pittman, I don't see how we let him leave. He is off to a good start, I fully expect him to put up great reception numbers this year and even break 1000yds, but he needs to get more TDs and improve his YPC.

 

 

So far this year he is scoring a TD 1 every 3 games.(on pace for 6)

 

If he doesn't score this week he will be on his career average 1 every 4 games.(would be on pace for 4)

 

He is also at a career low in ypc(9.2) and 1st down conversion rate(33%). Even worse than last year with that QB debacle.

 

 

1 in 3 catches are resulting in a first down this year

 

Been better than 1 in 2 catches the rest of his career.

 

 

Pace means very little, and it's early, but 2 trends are continuing so far. Low ypc and low TDs scored, and can't say I'm too fond of the first down rate dropping either.

 

Fair enough and I even posted I agree with mostly what you posted. I just I thought I would bring up the Taylor factor for food for thought. We damn near ran Taylor into the ground in 2021. Our pass ratio was much higher last year but there are factors why, Taylor being injured and missing several games, and playing from behind in almost in every game. To me Pittman isn't an Elite WR, I haven't done a list of WR's recently, but I will admit there are probably around 15 #1's better than him, that still doesn't mean he isn't a #1. Not saying you said he isn't but some in here have.

[Solid84]

I wanted to check Pittman against some other WRs across the league. Specifillay for YPC and YAC/REC. If Pittmans YAC/REC matches up against the other WRs it would indicate his low YPC could be a product of playcalling.

 

2023:

• Pittman YPC: 9.2 -- YAC/REC: 4.7
• Stefon Diggs YPC: 11.2 -- YAC/REC: 3.1
• DJ Moore YPC: 15.5 -- YAC/REC: 6.2
• CeeDee Lamb YPC: 14.4 -- YAC/REC: 6.1
• Courtland Sutton YPC: 11.1 -- YAC/REC: 3.1
• Amon-Ra St. Brown YPC: 12.7 -- YAC/REC: 3.8
• Davante Adams YPC: 12.9 -- YAC/REC: 2.3
• Keenan Allen YPC: 12.6 -- YAC/REC: 4.8
• Puka Nacua YPC: 11.3 -- YAC/REC: 4.0
• Justin Jefferson YPC: 17.0 -- YAC/REC: 6.4
• Chris Olave YPC: 13.7 -- YAC/REC: 5.3
• AJ Brown YPC: 12.0 -- YAC/REC: 5.0
• Mike Evans YPC: 17.5 -- YAC/REC: 6.1

 

2022:

• Pittman YPC: 9.3 -- YAC/REC: 3.5
• Stefon Diggs YPC: 13.3 -- YAC/REC: 3.7
• DJ Moore YPC: 14.1 -- YAC/REC: 3.0
• CeeDee Lamb YPC: 12.8 -- YAC/REC: 4.6
• Courtland Sutton YPC: 13.0 -- YAC/REC: 2.1
• Amon-Ra St. Brown YPC: 11.0 -- YAC/REC: 5.1
• Davante Adams YPC: 15.2 -- YAC/REC: 5.0
• Keenan Allen YPC: 11.3 -- YAC/REC: 4.0
• Puka Nacua YPC:  -- YAC/REC: 
• Justin Jefferson YPC: 13.8 -- YAC/REC: 4.7
• Chris Olave YPC: 14.5 -- YAC/REC: 3.0
• AJ Brown YPC: 16.3 -- YAC/REC: 6.1
• Mike Evans YPC: 14.5 -- YAC/REC: 2.9

 

He seems to be pretty smack in the middle for YAC/REC to me. Doesn't definitely mean playcalling is the reason for his YPC even if he pretty clearly is far behind other WRs in that regard.

[Hoose]

Lots of great stats in this thread. But in the end, whether Pitt is a 1 or a 1.5, he’s the Colts’ #1 guy and likely will be for the foreseeable future. He’ll get paid $20+m per year. That’s the market. 
I too would like to see a superstar, speed demon  WR on the field for the Colts….. maybe next year’s #1 pick. That’s a key missing piece for this Offense.  Having  that guy, Pittman, Downs and a healthy Jelani Woods would be a formidable group. 

[Nickster]

I don't love Pittman at the salary he's going to command.

 

But that catch was one of the best catches that you will ever see.  It was a mixture between skill, strong hands and luck.

 

But to me the most incredible part of that catch was how he trapped it against his hip when it was loose and rolled over as soon as he hit the turf. 

[EasyE]

On 9/28/2023 at 6:52 PM, jvan1973 said:

Is Jamar chase a number 1 wr?

I will answer Yes. So is Higgins but Higgins in most eyes isn't because of Bengals have 2 number ones. JMO

[EasyE]

On 9/28/2023 at 12:28 AM, Moosejawcolt said:

I am talking the elite. There r few .

There are very few elite in the NFL period on both sides of the ball each season. But you think Colts should have them all? So why is the Colts so bad? They have all pros and pro bowlers on the team.