AR vs Young vs Stroud vs Levis

[husker61]

Injuries seem to go up at all positions every year. The athletes are too big strong and fast. I have said this before. All sports have tried to take ped’s out of sports, but like everything else someone will find a way around the system. As far as qb’s, I think there has been less emphasis on protecting the qb, and that is your most valuable asset. Couple that with defenses prioritizing getting to the qb.

[chad72]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

Your boy Mahomes is still out there. And he knows how to avoid getting injured. 

 

Yeah, unless someone falls on his foot/ankle like that Jaguars' Arden Key last year in the playoffs. That is the thing, you buy time in the pocket but you can't prevent all forms of injury, it is a contact sport after all. Mahomes does have the added benefit this year of his D, IMO, being better than last year's D, Brett Veach has surrounded him with good pieces to increase margin of error for Mahomes and that offense to be honest.

 

That was a similar tackle Logan Wilson used on Mark Andrews (though not as severe and forceful in Mahomes' case but his weight went down on the back of his foot), and the 49er LBer used on Tony Pollard, both of which required them to have surgery.

[Myles]

6 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought only running QB's got injured, Homer better check his notes because there were about at least 7 or 8 people that focused and pushed their narrative on that after AR got injured??-over half those guys are pure pocket passers. Am I missing something? I can't wait to hear the naysayers on this one  

A running QB does increase his odds of being hurt, there is no denying that.

[OLD FAN MAN]

2 hours ago, Myles said:

A running QB does increase his odds of being hurt, there is no denying that.

ar did get hurt running

[NFLfan]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I thought only running QB's got injured, Homer better check his notes because there were about at least 7 or 8 people that focused and pushed their narrative on that after AR got injured??-over half those guys are pure pocket passers. Am I missing something? I can't wait to hear the naysayers on this one  

 

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, OLD FAN MAN said:

ar did get hurt running

And most of the other QBs got hurt in the pocket.   It's a violent game

[jvan1973]

13 hours ago, DougDew said:

In some circles of Colts country, I thought that's what they expected the LG and the WILL LB to do. 

In some circles All pro LG and linebackers in general are easy to find. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

9 hours ago, Myles said:

A running QB does increase his odds of being hurt, there is no denying that.

This year proves otherwise. Any QB can get injured on any given play, just because they may run more than others doesn't mean they are more susceptible to injury. Look at the list. Anymore I try to post as much factual stuff as I can, because if I list an opinion one can disagree with that. Look at the QB list of Injuries, most are pass FIRST QBs. That is a fact, can't be argued.

[DougDew]

10 hours ago, jvan1973 said:

In some circles All pro LG and linebackers in general are easy to find. 

If being all-pro at some positions mattered, some circles should expect they'd have a great winning percentage,  like an All-Star pitcher.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

 

[RollerColt]

1 minute ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

There’s certainly hope with that young man. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, RollerColt said:

There’s certainly hope with that young man. 

Nah, according to some he will just get injured again because he likes to run. He needs to be more like QB's that never get injured (you know pure pocket passers) as in Joe Burrow (sorry about that but I making a sarcastic point), Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy G, and Daniel Jones. 

[RollerColt]

29 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Nah, according to some he will just get injured again because he likes to run. He needs to be more like QB's that never get injured (you know pure pocket passers) as in Joe Burrow (sorry about that but I making a sarcastic point), Kirk Cousins, Aaron Rodgers, Matt Stafford, Ryan Tannehill, Jimmy G, and Daniel Jones. 

This season just sucks for mostly everyone. It’s gotta be better next year… it just has to.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Just now, RollerColt said:

This season just sucks for mostly everyone. It’s gotta be better next year… it just has to.

I hope. As of now, I am looking forward to the Colts making a playoff push. I don't care if we win ugly, I would rather win ugly than lose pretty. Give me 9-8 all day and sneaking in. Once you are in, anything can happen. We already beat teams like the Ravens at Baltimore with Mustache so who knows??

[RollerColt]

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I hope. As of now, I am looking forward to the Colts making a playoff push. I don't care if we win ugly, I would rather win ugly than lose pretty. Give me 9-8 all day and sneaking in. Once you are in, anything can happen. We already beat teams like the Ravens at Baltimore with Mustache so who knows??

I would love nothing more than for us to go into Baltimore and shut their fans up with a win with Minshew as the 7th seed. That would be hilarious. 

[Solid84]

26 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I hope. As of now, I am looking forward to the Colts making a playoff push. I don't care if we win ugly, I would rather win ugly than lose pretty. Give me 9-8 all day and sneaking in. Once you are in, anything can happen. We already beat teams like the Ravens at Baltimore with Mustache so who knows??

I hear you. I also think that’s the prevalent opinion. Wins is the primary meassure of success in the NFL after all. 
 

Look at a guy like Mike Tomlin. The Steelers have played some ugly football for quite a few years now including the last couple of years Big Ben was there, but Tomlin is still hanging on. 
 

I just have a hard time getting excited about watching ugly football, but that’s a me problem more than anything most likely. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

I hear you. I also think that’s the prevalent opinion. Wins is the primary meassure success in the NFL after all. 
 

Look at a guy like Mike Tomlin. The Steelers have played some ugly football for quite a few years now including the last couple of years Big Ben was there, but Tomlin is still hanging on. 
 

I just have a hard time getting excited about watching ugly football, but that’s a me problem more than anything most likely. 

After watching years of Peyton and then watching Luck, we have been a boring team for years for the most part. All most people really look at is wins and losses in the end. Pitt has played some really ugly ball but if I was a fan of Pitt sitting at 6-3, I would still be happy. I don't know how Tomlin does it with that craptastic offense.

[2006Coltsbestever]

27 minutes ago, RollerColt said:

I would love nothing more than for us to go into Baltimore and shut their fans up with a win with Minshew as the 7th seed. That would be hilarious. 

That would make my whole year eventhough I picked the Ravens to win the SB before the season. Our season would be a season to remember then, that is for sure.

[Solid84]

11 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

After watching years of Peyton and then watching Luck, we have been a boring team for years for the most part. All most people really look at is wins and losses in the end. Pitt has played some really ugly ball but if I was a fan of Pitt sitting at 6-3, I would still be happy. I don't know how Tomlin does it with that craptastic offense.

I guess it’s the difference between a good team and a successful team? 
 

The Steelers may have had some success this season, but they aren’t a good team in my opinion. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Solid84 said:

I guess it’s the difference between a good team and a successful team? 
 

The Steelers may have had some success this season, but they aren’t a good team in my opinion. 

They still may not even make it in, but the percentages are with them to do so at 6-3. A lot of football left.

[NFLfan]

2 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

 

 

There is an article in the Athletic that ranked AR #2 among the 10 rookie QBs.

 

1) Stroud

2) Anthony Richardson

3) Bryce Young

4) Will Levis

5) Aiden O'Connell

6) Tyson Bagent

7) Dorian Thompson-Robinson

8) Jaren Hall

9) Clayton Tune

10) Tommy DeVito

 

Quote

We asked Mueller and five others — a former NFL head coach and four current personnel executives for NFL teams — to rank the 10 quarterbacks who have started this season. The Athletic granted anonymity to the other five experts so they could analyze the QBs candidly.

...

2. Anthony Richardson, Indianapolis Colts

 

The pre-draft comparisons to Cam Newton looked spot-on for Richardson during his four games before his season-ending injury. The 6-4, 244-pound Richardson displayed big arm talent and a knack for making plays with his feet before sustaining an injury to his AC joint on a running play against the Titans.

 

Richardson completed 59.5 percent of his passes for 577 yards, with three touchdowns, one interception and an 87.3 passer rating. Richardson, who started only one season at Florida, also rushed 25 times for 136 yards and four touchdowns for the Colts, who went 2-2 in his starts.

 

https://theathletic.com/5070129/2023/11/17/nfl-rookie-quarterback-rankings?source=user-shared-article

 

[OLD FAN MAN]

12 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

This year proves otherwise. Any QB can get injured on any given play, just because they may run more than others doesn't mean they are more susceptible to injury. Look at the list. Anymore I try to post as much factual stuff as I can, because if I list an opinion one can disagree with that. Look at the QB list of Injuries, most are pass FIRST QBs. That is a fact, can't be argued.

there are a lot of very bad o-lines not pass blocking good, peyton got hurt in the pocket, luck and ar got hurt running, most qbs get hurt eventually even brady even with the dont hit brady rules

[Superman]

I watched a lot of the Titans/Jags today. Will Levis really struggles with pocket awareness and timing. @stitches called this pre-draft. Just not feeling pressure, not responding to it, getting blasted by rushers that he doesn't even know are there. He got some garbage time production, most of the game the Titans couldn't do anything; the first TD drive was mostly about defensive penalties.

 

And watching a lot of games, this is something a lot of 'not good' QBs have a problem with. Even watching Russell Wilson, who used to be able to escape pressure with his quickness, he turns and runs directly into rushers now. Pocket poise, anticipating pressure, throwing hot... these skills seem lost on a lot of current QBs. I know OL play is down around the league, but QBs are making it worse.

 

I also watched some of the Texans. Stroud was late on some throws, he sometimes gets stuck on early reads, which is something I saw on his college tape. It looked like he didn't see one defender, and he took a few too many chances. The rest of the time, he looked to be in good shape -- he has really good command of the offense, and his mechanics are excellent.

 

It's hard to watch the Panthers play. So much pressure, play after play, Bryce Young seems flinchy in the pocket, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of options. On their one TD drive, I think it was 17 plays, and they converted 4th down three times, and I think they were all to Adam Thielen. Where is everyone else? Young made some nice throws, and had one nice run. Threw another pick six, though. 

 

CJ Stroud threw three picks, and Levis had a passer rating of 143.8, but Stroud was still clearly the best of the rookies today. Tommy Devito had a nice day also, but it was ugly watching him try to navigate the pocket. Other rookies who started today: Dorian Thompson Robinson (nothing good there, averaged 3.8 yards/attempt), and Aidan O'Connell (three picks, a lot of bad work in the pocket also). 

 

Not a rookie, but Brock Purdy was incredible. When the Niners are dialed in on offense, it's like they're playing a different game from everyone else. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

I watched a lot of the Titans/Jags today. Will Levis really struggles with pocket awareness and timing. @stitches called this pre-draft. Just not feeling pressure, not responding to it, getting blasted by rushers that he doesn't even know are there. He got some garbage time production, most of the game the Titans couldn't do anything; the first TD drive was mostly about defensive penalties.

 

And watching a lot of games, this is something a lot of 'not good' QBs have a problem with. Even watching Russell Wilson, who used to be able to escape pressure with his quickness, he turns and runs directly into rushers now. Pocket poise, anticipating pressure, throwing hot... these skills seem lost on a lot of current QBs. I know OL play is down around the league, but QBs are making it worse.

 

I also watched some of the Texans. Stroud was late on some throws, he sometimes gets stuck on early reads, which is something I saw on his college tape. It looked like he didn't see one defender, and he took a few too many chances. The rest of the time, he looked to be in good shape -- he has really good command of the offense, and his mechanics are excellent.

 

It's hard to watch the Panthers play. So much pressure, play after play, Bryce Young seems flinchy in the pocket, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of options. On their one TD drive, I think it was 17 plays, and they converted 4th down three times, and I think they were all to Adam Thielen. Where is everyone else? Young made some nice throws, and had one nice run. Threw another pick six, though. 

 

CJ Stroud threw three picks, and Levis had a passer rating of 143.8, but Stroud was still clearly the best of the rookies today. Tommy Devito had a nice day also, but it was ugly watching him try to navigate the pocket. Other rookies who started today: Dorian Thompson Robinson (nothing good there, averaged 3.8 yards/attempt), and Aidan O'Connell (three picks, a lot of bad work in the pocket also). 

 

Not a rookie, but Brock Purdy was incredible. When the Niners are dialed in on offense, it's like they're playing a different game from everyone else. 

I watched almost the whole game of the Titans and Jags. I hope I don't offend anyone that likes Levis by saying this, but he was really bad today. I am not here to bash him because than people think I am hating on the guy again. His pocket awareness was bad and he threw at least 4 or 5 balls that could have been easily picked off that weren't. The 1 great TD throw he had was on a trick play of all things.

[Superman]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I watched almost the whole game of the Titans and Jags. I hope I don't offend anyone that likes Levis by saying this, but he was really bad today. I am not here to bash him because than people think I am hating on the guy again. His pocket awareness was bad and he threw at least 4 or 5 balls that could have been easily picked off that weren't. The 1 great TD throw he had was on a trick play of all things.

 

I meant to mention that it was a trick play TD. Nice arm, he left it a little short TBH, but it worked out.

 

He also looked hurt around that part of the game. He had taken a big shot before that TD, and he looked like he was limping as he ran down the field for the celebration. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

I meant to mention that it was a trick play TD. Nice arm, he left it a little short TBH, but it worked out.

 

He also looked hurt around that part of the game. He had taken a big shot before that TD, and he looked like he was limping as he ran down the field for the celebration. 

Where I do give Levis a little leeway is, the Titans O.Line is pretty bad. That is another reason why I like a QB like AR because if all else fails he can run making something out of nothing. Even perhaps avoid getting sacked at times. He just needs to learn how to slide and stay healthy. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Where I do give Levis a little leeway is, the Titans O.Line is pretty bad. That is another reason why I like a QB like AR because if all else fails he can run making something out of nothing. Even perhaps avoid getting sacked at times. He just needs to learn how to slide and stay healthy. 

 

The OL being bad doesn't explain his inability to sense pressure. I'll give him a break since this is his fourth game, and it's probably a huge adjustment to get used to NFL game speed, but sometimes he just doesn't seem to be aware that there are 300 pound guys trying to take his head off.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Tannehill might be the QB when Colts play Titans.

[krunk]

Nothing about Levis has amazed me to be honest. Same guy and same flaws I saw in college. Especially with the pocket and feel for the rush(or lack thereof) awareness.

[2006Coltsbestever]

10 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Tannehill might be the QB when Colts play Titans.

I think he might be after today. I am good either way though. We beat them earlier this season with Tannehill and their O.Line was even less banged up. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I think he might be after today. I am good either way though. We beat them earlier this season with Tannehill and their O.Line was even less banged up. 

Titans could also stick with Levis realizing season is over. They need a good look at him. 

[dw49]

2 hours ago, Superman said:

I watched a lot of the Titans/Jags today. Will Levis really struggles with pocket awareness and timing. @stitches called this pre-draft. Just not feeling pressure, not responding to it, getting blasted by rushers that he doesn't even know are there. He got some garbage time production, most of the game the Titans couldn't do anything; the first TD drive was mostly about defensive penalties.

 

And watching a lot of games, this is something a lot of 'not good' QBs have a problem with. Even watching Russell Wilson, who used to be able to escape pressure with his quickness, he turns and runs directly into rushers now. Pocket poise, anticipating pressure, throwing hot... these skills seem lost on a lot of current QBs. I know OL play is down around the league, but QBs are making it worse.

 

I also watched some of the Texans. Stroud was late on some throws, he sometimes gets stuck on early reads, which is something I saw on his college tape. It looked like he didn't see one defender, and he took a few too many chances. The rest of the time, he looked to be in good shape -- he has really good command of the offense, and his mechanics are excellent.

 

It's hard to watch the Panthers play. So much pressure, play after play, Bryce Young seems flinchy in the pocket, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of options. On their one TD drive, I think it was 17 plays, and they converted 4th down three times, and I think they were all to Adam Thielen. Where is everyone else? Young made some nice throws, and had one nice run. Threw another pick six, though. 

 

CJ Stroud threw three picks, and Levis had a passer rating of 143.8, but Stroud was still clearly the best of the rookies today. Tommy Devito had a nice day also, but it was ugly watching him try to navigate the pocket. Other rookies who started today: Dorian Thompson Robinson (nothing good there, averaged 3.8 yards/attempt), and Aidan O'Connell (three picks, a lot of bad work in the pocket also). 

 

Not a rookie, but Brock Purdy was incredible. When the Niners are dialed in on offense, it's like they're playing a different game from everyone else. 

 

So much for passer ratings. Levis was in two words "not good." To me it looks like he was drafted right where he should have been.

 

As for Young , he was a genius not throwing at the combine. Small guy with at best an average arm. Carolina hit the daily double with Reich and Young. That trade was a franchise wrecker.

 

Stroud is no doubt good. 

[w87r]

 

 

[stitches]

46 minutes ago, w87r said:

 

 

Some here wanted to give an additional 1st too... 

[stitches]

9 hours ago, Superman said:

I watched a lot of the Titans/Jags today. Will Levis really struggles with pocket awareness and timing. @stitches called this pre-draft. Just not feeling pressure, not responding to it, getting blasted by rushers that he doesn't even know are there. He got some garbage time production, most of the game the Titans couldn't do anything; the first TD drive was mostly about defensive penalties.

I don't think pocket awareness and feel ever get dramatically better. He might have some marginal improvements through sheer repetition(or it might get worse - aka "seeing ghosts"), but there really aren't many cases where a QB with horrible pocket presence becomes a QB with great pocket presence. There are more cases of accuracy improving than there are of pocket awareness, simply because with accuracy there might be underlying mechanical problems that can be fixed. I don't know how you fix inability to feel, sense and see pressure. 

 

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I also watched some of the Texans. Stroud was late on some throws, he sometimes gets stuck on early reads, which is something I saw on his college tape. It looked like he didn't see one defender, and he took a few too many chances. The rest of the time, he looked to be in good shape -- he has really good command of the offense, and his mechanics are excellent.

I love Stroud. He looks awesome to me... he looks like the Georgia game Stroud more often than not + possible refinement of his on schedule play. I guess the lesson from this draft cycle for me would be - trust the peak performance when it has happened against the best of the best competition. I was really flaky with it. I knew there is a chance he can do it, but I didn't think it will happen this early and to that degree. 

 

9 hours ago, Superman said:

 

It's hard to watch the Panthers play. So much pressure, play after play, Bryce Young seems flinchy in the pocket, but he doesn't seem to have a lot of options. On their one TD drive, I think it was 17 plays, and they converted 4th down three times, and I think they were all to Adam Thielen. Where is everyone else? Young made some nice throws, and had one nice run. Threw another pick six, though. 

Panthers have considerable problems on multiple levels - from supporting cast to coaching to... Bryce's own limitations. Maybe he can work around one or two of those, but right now it feels like everything is working against him. 

 

9 hours ago, Superman said:

CJ Stroud threw three picks, and Levis had a passer rating of 143.8, but Stroud was still clearly the best of the rookies today. Tommy Devito had a nice day also, but it was ugly watching him try to navigate the pocket. Other rookies who started today: Dorian Thompson Robinson (nothing good there, averaged 3.8 yards/attempt), and Aidan O'Connell (three picks, a lot of bad work in the pocket also). 

 

Not a rookie, but Brock Purdy was incredible. When the Niners are dialed in on offense, it's like they're playing a different game from everyone else. 

I'm still not sure what to think about Purdy... he looks good, but then again.. we've seen prolonged stretches where players like Nick Mullens looked good in that offense... 

[2006Coltsbestever]

A lot of it is, you have to factor the team that is around a QB as well. That is why sometimes stats don't tell the whole story. Stats are important but so is eye test. I haven't been impressed with Levis other than his 1st game vs the Falcons, I thought Levis played great vs the Falcons but it was one game.. Then against the Steelers he was average, then bad the last 2 weeks at Tampa and at Jacks. He doesn't have much of an O.line but his pocket awareness is troublesome, and he forces a lot of dangerous passes. He knows he has a strong arm is why. I thought when AR played in the 4 games he played in, his pocket awareness was better than Levis' and to me it looked like he could throw into a tight window better than Levis. He also has the ability to run to get out of jams and make big plays with his feet. Moving forward problem with AR will be, can he stay healthy?

 

So far if I was to grade the 4 QB's, I would say,

1. Stroud = A

2. Levis = C

3. Young = F

AR is an incomplete as of now. Tough to grade him because of his injuries. Next season will be the tell all for all these guys. To me Stroud definitely looks to be the real deal, then again we sacked him 7 times when we played them earlier and AR was actually outplaying him going into the 2nd Qtr.

[DougDew]

November 19

 

Young: 16/29, 123 yds 1 TD/ 1 INT, Longest 20 yds, Passer Rating 62.9

Stroud:  27/37 336 yds, 2 TD/ 3 INT Longest 40 yds, Passer rating 85.0

AR: NA

Levis:  13/17 158 yds, 2TDs/ 0 INT Longest 49 yds, Passer Rating 143.6

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 hours ago, DougDew said:

November 19

 

Young: 16/29, 123 yds 1 TD/ 1 INT, Longest 20 yds, Passer Rating 62.9

Stroud:  27/37 336 yds, 2 TD/ 3 INT Longest 40 yds, Passer rating 85.0

AR: NA

Levis:  13/17 158 yds, 2TDs/ 0 INT Longest 49 yds, Passer Rating 143.6

 

 

Not really sure what this post is supposed to mean? I guess you are pointing out Levis had a great Passer Rating? I am one that is on record already, stating Passer Rating makes no sense to me and doesn't measure at to me how well a QB plays. Levis still played badly and anyone that watched the game would know this. I am not here to bash him, read my posts above. Not here to debate or argue about him, I am done doing that with people regarding Levis, it is a waste of time. I watched almost the whole game. He had 2 garbage TD's when the game was already over in a blowout loss, and he looked erratic all day. His best and long TD was on a trick play. He had several passes that could have been picked off as well (2 INT's were dropped, another, a bogus roughing call took 1 away) + he fumbled once. Context means something. 

[husker61]

Pocket presence is kind of judged differently depending on the qb or offense. Manning, Brady, aikman, etc was in the form of reading the players and making check downs. There has been a long list of qb’s in the last 10 years or so that will run instead of looking for the 2nd, 3rd option. If you don’t learn to go through those reads you won’t last long, it doesn’t matter how big, strong, and fast you are,it will catch up to you. A young qb that is a pocket passer is going through those reads and will probably get sacked or make a ruched throw and it will be worse with a bad line. Running if the first read isn’t there will make it seem like you have better pocket awareness, but is that a good thing if you don’t learn to make all the reads? I have seen qb’s that looked great at the beginning turn out not so good, and the opposite (a lot of hof ones). Time will tell!

[Superman]

13 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Titans could also stick with Levis realizing season is over. They need a good look at him. 

 

They should know that Tannehill is done. Unless he's hurt, they should stick with Levis for the rest of the year.