Chicago trade with Carolina

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, chad72 said:

The reason we got Steichen is his ability to win with any style of QB. I can bet he wins with AR or with Levis. The doom and gloom if we miss out on Stroud and Young is a bit premature, IMO.

I’m higher on AR than Levis and I definitely feel our options go up IF we move to No.3.

 

I don't want Levis at all, don't worry though with my luck has been going with the Colts, we will take Levis 

[krunk]

Just now, chad72 said:

The reason we got Steichen is his ability to win with any style of QB. I can bet he wins with AR or with Levis. The doom and gloom if we miss out on Stroud and Young is a bit premature, IMO.

I’m higher on AR than Levis and I definitely feel our options go up IF we move to No.3.

 

You keep seeming to miss that Indy is looking to build a scheme around an accurate pocket passing QB. Thats why Steichen emphasized Throwing to score first. Unlike Frank who in his Carolina presser emphasized Running the football.

[Indeee]

Ladies and Gents, it is now being reported that the entire Colts organization loves them some BBC. 

 

Bring Back Chad!

 

Bring Back Chad!

 

[chad72]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I don't want Levis at all, don't worry though with my luck has been going with the Colts, we will take Levis 

I do think we move to No.3 and if one of Young or Stroud gets ignored, we’re sitting pretty. If not, we’ll get our pick of AR or Levis, whoever we want.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Indeee said:

Ladies and Gents, it is now being reported that the entire Colts organization loves them some BBC. 

 

Bring Back Chad!

 

Bring Back Chad!

 

Who, @chad72?

[#12.]

Just now, krunk said:

I can see it bc the scheme that Frank wants is based on a move QB more than it is a pocket passer. That changes the priority for the skills you value at QB. Franks looking for a Jalen Hurts type he can use as a runner in his RPO, play action offense. Franks not looking for a pocket passer. He wants to emphasize the ground game. Richardsons unique skill set works well in that setting.

 

I do think Frank wants someone who can move, but every one of these QBs can certainly move better than Rivers or Ryan.  I'm not sure he's necessarily looking to rack up rushing yards from the QB.  Go back a few years - one of Frank's top goals upon arriving was to cut down Luck's running considerably and teach him to get down.  I think he's probably wanting something in between Lamar and Rivers.

 

 

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, krunk said:

You keep seeming to miss that Indy is looking to build a scheme around an accurate pocket passing QB. Thats why Steichen emphasized Throwing to score first. Unlike Frank who in his Carolina presser emphasized Running the football.

Accuracy is still a work in progress, no matter the QB you draft. People keep thinking whatever they were in college would translate right away to the NFL with their new HC and offensive system. That’s not how it works.

 

So yes, we can make AR or Levis better because you have to believe Steichen can do that. We will sign a vet.

[krunk]

Just now, #12. said:

 

I do think Frank wants someone who can move, but every one of these QBs can certainly move better than Rivers or Ryan.  I'm not sure he's necessarily looking to rack up rushing yards from the QB.  Go back a few years - one of Frank's top goals upon arriving was to cut down Luck's running considerably and teach him to get down.  I think he's probably wanting something in between Lamar and Rivers.

 

 

Jalen Hurts runs 10 times a game. Does Stroud and Young do that? And would you base your O around running if you had Stroud or Young.

[boo2202]

Ballard already knows who he’s taking. He could’ve traded up but the player he wants will be there at 4. Welcome Wll Levis. So obvious now. 

[#12.]

Just now, krunk said:

Jalen Hurts runs 10 times a game. Does Stroud and Young do that? And would you base your O around running if you had Stroud or Young.

 

If you want a carbon copy, but that's more internet thinking.  That's not what teams generally do.  You take some of what you like and make it your own.  

 

 

[Fluke_33]

15 hours ago, Jackie Daytona said:

inpatient owner

I know it’s a typo for impatient but all I could think of was inpatient in a hospital psych ward.  Both work for the comment.  Lol 

[krunk]

10 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Accuracy is still a work in progress, no matter the QB you draft. People keep thinking whatever they were in college would translate right away to the NFL with their new HC and offensive system. That’s not how it works.

 

So yes, we can make AR or Levis better because you have to believe Steichen can do that.

Nobody is drafting Richardson based on what he is as a passer and then creating a passing offense around that. Im trying to get you to see that. What he does well is run so you build the offense around running like Franks doing and then teach the passing game as you move along.  Steichen is doing the opposite thing. Hes coming in building around passing and thats why in saying to you Richardson makes little sense if thats who they want. And thats why i doubt they want him. If they wanted him i think youd see us wanting to be about running and moving the QB. And then id say Richardson fits that. I could get on board from there. However i havent seen that so far.

4 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

If you want a carbon copy, but that's more internet thinking.  That's not what teams generally do.  You take some of what you like and make it your own.  

 

 

Im asking you again is frank emphasizing passing or running?

[masterlock]

11 hours ago, Patrick Miller said:

I guess you just have to trust that Ballard and his scouts know what they’re doing and have weighed the odds. We have no idea who they are targeting at quarterback. 

Or trust that Carolina and THEIR scouts know what they're doing. ;-)

[#12.]

1 minute ago, krunk said:

 

Im asking you again is frank emphasizing passing or running?

 

Depends on who his QB is.

 

I know you want a Stroud bad and hope Carolina takes Richardson at #1, but I can't tell you I think it will happen.

[Moosejawcolt]

9 minutes ago, #12. said:

 

I do think Frank wants someone who can move, but every one of these QBs can certainly move better than Rivers or Ryan.  I'm not sure he's necessarily looking to rack up rushing yards from the QB.  Go back a few years - one of Frank's top goals upon arriving was to cut down Luck's running considerably and teach him to get down.  I think he's probably wanting something in between Lamar and Rivers.

 

 

Frank just got to Carolina. I think people are way over in saying this was Frank telling the org what qb he likes. Remember  he  juat got fired. This is a gm and owner decision to move up. Tepper wants a guy and doesn't care what it will cost.

[TomDiggs]

FWIW, Nate Atkins implied that the Colts did inquire with Chicago about moving up but that the piece Chicago had (Moore) tilted things to Carolina. And it was also mentioned that the deal came together at the combine and the Colts were basically aware this was going down and their chances were slim. 
 

Again, this was not a case of not trying or being too conservative. 
 

the reality is that in order to convince Chicago to overlook Moore, the Colts probably would have had to go above the (2) 1s and (2) 2s that Carolina added to Moore. That would have made the colts offer probably need to look like the offer Poles mentioned that everyone mocked and called insane. (3) 1s +

 

no way going up to get our guy at 1 was worth a 2024 and 2025 1st plus likely this years second. 
 

1-2 of the big 4 will be there at our pick. Az might trade back if they get a haul, but if not they have a big incentive to stay and pick w Anderson and Tyree there. 
 

if the colts genuinely don’t like whatever qbs are left then it’s time to course correct and take an elite edge and continue to delay addressing the young QB in the future (obviously not ideal). But the reality is this is what happens when you’re a bad team but not as bad as others. You either tear it down and cast off pieces (Chicago- roquan, Quinn, etc) and completely strip down to rebuild or you have to deal the hand you’re dealt.  
 

I genuinely do believe there will be good options at 4. And I’m not convinced Stroud and Young are both gone after 2 yet either. 

[richard pallo]

Bears players are really excited.  Moore going there is a big deal.  Good for them.  I can’t imagine what our players are thinking.  Yeah,  I guess I can.

[NFLfan]

37 minutes ago, chad72 said:

Seems like I’m seeing the whole spectrum of emotions - from blasting Frank to blasting Ballard to blasting Frank’s beliefs. You just have to let things play out. Ballard typically waits until free agency begins to do his trades. Let the Colts make their moves and we will see where they stand before the draft.

 

[krunk]

1 minute ago, #12. said:

 

Depends on who his QB is.

 

I know you want a Stroud bad and hope Carolina takes Richardson at #1, but I can't tell you I think it will happen.

No it doesnt depend bc he said out of his own mouth in his presser he wants to emphasize the ground game. And hed like a move QB. Im not sure you build your offense around running if you get Stroud or Young. Stroud was almost exclusively a pocket passer. He was used very little as a runner. His unique traits are as a passer. And once more in the case of Young have you ever in your life seen Frank with a QB less than 6ft 4? Richardson is huge like Frank likes and so is Levis and they are both move QBs.

[masterlock]

1 hour ago, Crush22 said:

This board after Ballard NOT trading:

He should have traded!

 

This board after Ballard trading:

Why would he do that?!

HALF of the board, yes.

[chad72]

9 minutes ago, TomDiggs said:

FWIW, Nate Atkins implied that the Colts did inquire with Chicago about moving up but that the piece Chicago had (Moore) tilted things to Carolina. And it was also mentioned that the deal came together at the combine and the Colts were basically aware this was going down and their chances were slim. 
 

Again, this was not a case of not trying or being too conservative. 
 

the reality is that in order to convince Chicago to overlook Moore, the Colts probably would have had to go above the (2) 1s and (2) 2s that Carolina added to Moore. That would have made the colts offer probably need to look like the offer Poles mentioned that everyone mocked and called insane. (3) 1s +

 

no way going up to get our guy at 1 was worth a 2024 and 2025 1st plus likely this years second. 
 

1-2 of the big 4 will be there at our pick. Az might trade back if they get a haul, but if not they have a big incentive to stay and pick w Anderson and Tyree there. 
 

if the colts genuinely don’t like whatever qbs are left then it’s time to course correct and take an elite edge and continue to delay addressing the young QB in the future (obviously not ideal). But the reality is this is what happens when you’re a bad team but not as bad as others. You either tear it down and cast off pieces (Chicago- roquan, Quinn, etc) and completely strip down to rebuild or you have to deal the hand you’re dealt.  
 

I genuinely do believe there will be good options at 4. And I’m not convinced Stroud and Young are both gone after 2 yet either. 

They lost their 2nd rounder by overpaying for Claypool. D J Moore is at best worth a 2nd rounder if you look at what DaVante Adams and Tyreek Hill fetched.

 

No.61 is as good as a very high 2nd rounder, In other words, a 3rd rounder.

 

So, Bears got a 1st swap, a future 1st, 2 second rounders and a 3rd. They probably wanted Pittman on a rookie contract and Ballard said No.

 

I have always maintained this, moving to No.3 was always the best move and it still is.

 

I’m telling the Cardinals we will give you pick No.35 to move up, in return we get Hopkins and will assume his contract. Win-win for both, IMO

[JColts72]

5 minutes ago, NFLfan said:

 

Another year of Ballard bargain bin shopping with FA. That is to be expected.

[JColts72]

18 minutes ago, boo2202 said:

Ballard already knows who he’s taking. He could’ve traded up but the player he wants will be there at 4. Welcome Wll Levis. So obvious now. 

Levis doesn't fit Shane scheme. AR does 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Crush22 said:

This board after Ballard NOT trading:

He should have traded!

 

This board after Ballard trading:

Why would he do that?!

Spot on, the problem is we need a franchise QB and need to take a chance eventually. Otherwise we will never beat teams like KC, Cincy, of Buffalo.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, JColts72 said:

Levis doesn't fit Shane scheme. AR does 

I would draft AR before I would draft Levis. I agree. Hurts ran the ball a lot to set up the pass.

[boo2202]

2 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Levis doesn't fit Shane scheme. AR does 

Na Levi’s is a dual threat also. With a more accurate arm. He’s going to be a colt 

[chad72]

3 minutes ago, JColts72 said:

Levis doesn't fit Shane scheme. AR does 

False. Steichen adapted to Rivers, then Herbert, then Hurts. The system of Steichen adapted to the QB every time.

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Why would 30 other GMs try and trade up for the no1 pick? That's just stupid. Even if Fitterer and Poles worked the deal without Ballard's knowledge, that means 1.) Ballard didn't put in an offer or 2.) The offer wasn't near good enough so Poles took the Panthers offer. 

 

If Ballard didn't have confidence to trade up for Young or Stroud, why should we have more confidence in Ballard than Fitterer at this point? Just asking so you don't turn this into a Colts forum Vs Ballard argument.

 Ballard had already said he didn't believe he had to move to #1 to get a QB. The Colts are not a victim here and Ballard is not the culprit. 

[richard pallo]

Shouldn’t be expensive to move to 3.  We will definitely get comp picks next year.  Could easily lose Yannick, Okeroke and Campbell in FA.  Speed too. Give them this and next years 3 and throw in Moore if we have too.   I wouldn’t be surprised if we sign Shaquille Griffin in FA.  He played for Gus in Seattle.

[MikeCurtis]

12 hours ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Year after year we sit and watch teams be aggressive and make moves to win. They might not work but at least they can say they tried. Colts are just a bunch of losers who don’t do anything.

Respectfully.  This is a sport

 

Thats all it is

 

I enjoy watching the Colts  but this is not life or death stuff

 

We pick fourth and there are 4 top QBs

 

Im not the most in on Levi’s, but if CB thinks he is all that.   Than I am too

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

4 minutes ago, richard pallo said:

Shouldn’t be expensive to move to 3.  We will definitely get comp picks next year.  Could easily lose Yannick, Okeroke and Campbell in FA.  Speed too. Give them this and next years 3 and throw in Moore if we have too.   I wouldn’t be surprised if we sign Shaquille Griffin in FA.  He played for Gus in Seattle.

Depends on how much the teams after us want one of the two that are left. Could be more then you think. Richardson would be a really good spot for Seahawks. Matter of fact Richardson said he felt very good about meeting with them. If I had to guess Seahawks will want him. Which probably leaves Levis.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

7 minutes ago, chad72 said:

False. Steichen adapted to Rivers, then Herbert, then Hurts. The system of Steichen adapted to the QB every time.

Yep every time. I’d we do go Richardson I really hope they play him right away. Shane can develop a game plan to help him until he improves. I won’t lie Richardson and Taylor would be fun together. I just can’t watch another retread.

[Moosejawcolt]

49 minutes ago, krunk said:

I can see it bc the scheme that Frank wants is based on a move QB more than it is a pocket passer. That changes the priority for the skills you value at QB. Franks looking for a Jalen Hurts type he can use as a runner in his RPO, play action offense. Franks not looking for a pocket passer. He wants to emphasize the ground game. Richardsons unique skill set works well in that setting. The quarterback needs to fit what you are seeking to do as an offense.  Theres not that many move Quarterbacks in this draft like Richardson. Levis either for that matter.

 If they pick Richardson, I will be floored.

[TomDiggs]

14 minutes ago, chad72 said:

They lost their 2nd rounder by overpaying for Claypool. D J Moore is at best worth a 2nd rounder if you look at what DaVante Adams and Tyreek Hill fetched.

 

No.61 is as good as a very high 2nd rounder, In other words, a 3rd rounder.

 

So, Bears got a 1st swap, a future 1st, 2 second rounders and a 3rd. They probably wanted Pittman on a rookie contract and Ballard said No.

 

I have always maintained this, moving to No.3 was always the best move and it still is.

 

I’m telling the Cardinals we will give you pick No.35 to move up, in return we get Hopkins and will assume his contract. Win-win for both, IMO

I don’t  disagree w one exception:

 

DJ was worth more than a 2. Adams and Hill both were due massive extensions and due to that fetched less than they were truly worth in a trade. 
 

DJ has 3 yrs left at an Average of around $17.5M in a market where he would probably command $22M+

 

That and it was reported that GB offered a 1 for him to Carolina at the deadline last year and was turned down. 
 

at the bare minimum the panthers valued him like a 1. And it’s been said he was the crucial piece to get the deal done for Chicago. 
 

if that’s the case it’s like getting (3) 1s a 2 and 3. Which is what poles mentioned having on the table. 
 

also agree wholeheartedly w you that the colts making such a deal and including Pittman would have been a no go. But Pittman had less value than DJ in my opinion. He’s in a contract year and will cost a lot more in 2024 and beyond compared to DJ’s $16M in 2024 & 2025. 
 

agreed w you that a trade up to 1.03 is ideal now. But I also wouldn’t want to move 35 to do it and can’t see the colts taking on Hopkins contract at age 31 when they have to try to pay Pittman and JT. 
 

but damned if I know w this team. Can’t rule anything out lol 

[crazycolt1]

5 hours ago, Jared Cisneros said:

Why would 30 other GMs try and trade up for the no1 pick? That's just stupid. Even if Fitterer and Poles worked the deal without Ballard's knowledge, that means 1.) Ballard didn't put in an offer or 2.) The offer wasn't near good enough so Poles took the Panthers offer. 

 

If Ballard didn't have confidence to trade up for Young or Stroud, why should we have more confidence in Ballard than Fitterer at this point? Just asking so you don't turn this into a Colts forum Vs Ballard argument.

The Bears just fleeced the Panthers and you want to be mad at Ballard? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The Bears just fleeced the Panthers and you want to be mad at Ballard? 

You won’t be saying that when Reich has a SB within next few years. No one will care what they gave up. You can always fill those lost draft picks in FA.

[Yoshinator]

Just now, crazycolt1 said:

The Bears just fleeced the Panthers and you want to be mad at Ballard? 

We would have had to give up less than that. Don't pretend like trading up from the 4th pick would be the same compensation as trading up from the 9th pick.

[Mike06181]

Dont discount hooker in these conversations. He just got cleared to throw. I wouldn’t take him at 4 but he will end up going mid to late 1st rd. A trade down and grab of hooker might be the way to go.

[TomDiggs]

6 minutes ago, Restinpeacesweetchloe said:

Yep every time. I’d we do go Richardson I really hope they play him right away. Shane can develop a game plan to help him until he improves. I won’t lie Richardson and Taylor would be fun together. I just can’t watch another retread.

FWIW, if we go Richardson or any developmental guy the fan base needs to be patient and expect exactly what you said you don’t want. We would likely sign a Jameis Winston type to play now and let Richardson learn. 
 

the blueprint is there. Hurts sat the first 12 games as a rookie. 
 

played the last 4. Got a taste. Then played the entire next season and was OK but not great. Even questions if he was the guy or not. 
 

then in year 3 and with a big investment in DeVonta and AJ brown he took off 

 

if we get a guy that needs to sit we have to be patient. It’ll be a 2-3 year turn around process. Not just an insertion and immediate contention. 
 

if we as a fan base want instant gratification then we go the retread vet route. If we want sustained long term success we have to expect some lumps and have patience for a minimum of a year and likely two. (Same w Josh Allen taking off after 2+ years and the Diggs acquisition ) 

[FalseStart]

I think we draft Carter or Anderson and play him at QB… might be more entertaining