Be Careful What You Wish For

[lennymoore24]

So I have read many posts on here about people wanting to bring in one of these retread failed head coaches who are now defensive coordinators or a coordinator that is on one of the most talented teams.  Again, guys and gals, you HAVE to consider the personal.  I seem to remember a few years back when, after the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Byron Leftwich was a hot coaching commodity.  And says ago he was fired.  What changed?  Well, it was never him. It was Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, and a very good offensive team that got them there, not Leftwich.  I would make the same argument for some of these HC prospectives.  Demeco coached a good defense, but they are LOADED.  Before him, Robert Saleh did a great job and now is HC of failing Jets.  So are these guys great coaches or do they just have great personnel?  I would argue that is the same with Eric Bienemy.  And who wants a guy like Leslie Frazier who has very talent to work with and failed as a headcoach.  

 

Also, when it comes to QBs, keep this in mind. Of the top college footbal playoffs QBs, CJ Stroud is by far the worst against the blitz statistically over the season.  The guy does great when everything works out fine. But if he is pressured and has to go off script, he is flat out bad.  And that is not an opinion, that is statistically a fact. Look it up.  And do the Colts ever get blitzed?  Ahhhh...yeah. Like every other play.  Trust me, you do not want that guy as your QB. He will be a miserable failure on this team. Bryce Young is a very smart, quick QB. But he is so small I don't think he will last long. Imagine him getting knocked down that much.

 

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.  I just want an offensive minded HC who brings in a good coordinator and keeps the defensive and special teams coaches in tact. Because they are fine. And I want Will Levis to be the QB who we draft.  If you consider he played in a pro style offense, lost many linemen and receivers and was hurt most of the year, he did  a very good job. He was hit like Matt Ryan was this year.  Pressured more than any other QB at that level.  So you know the guy can run the offense, is very smart, can hit any part of the field, is mobile, and is tough.  He is exactly what we need. Like I have said, any QB being drafted is a roll of the dice. Levis might be the next Mitch Trubisky. But I think he has the best chance of being very good.

 

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

[RollerColt]

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

So I have read many posts on here about people wanting to bring in one of these retread failed head coaches who are now defensive coordinators or a coordinator that is on one of the most talented teams.  Again, guys and gals, you HAVE to consider the personal.  I seem to remember a few years back when, after the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Byron Leftwich was a hot coaching commodity.  And says ago he was fired.  What changed?  Well, it was never him. It was Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, and a very good offensive team that got them there, not Leftwich.  I would make the same argument for some of these HC prospectives.  Demeco coached a good defense, but they are LOADED.  Before him, Robert Saleh did a great job and now is HC of failing Jets.  So are these guys great coaches or do they just have great personnel?  I would argue that is the same with Eric Bienemy.  And who wants a guy like Leslie Frazier who has very talent to work with and failed as a headcoach.  

 

Also, when it comes to QBs, keep this in mind. Of the top college footbal playoffs QBs, CJ Stroud is by far the worst against the blitz statistically over the season.  The guy does great when everything works out fine. But if he is pressured and has to go off script, he is flat out bad.  And that is not an opinion, that is statistically a fact. Look it up.  And do the Colts ever get blitzed?  Ahhhh...yeah. Like every other play.  Trust me, you do not want that guy as your QB. He will be a miserable failure on this team. Bryce Young is a very smart, quick QB. But he is so small I don't think he will last long. Imagine him getting knocked down that much.

 

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.  I just want an offensive minded HC who brings in a good coordinator and keeps the defensive and special teams coaches in tact. Because they are fine. And I want Will Levis to be the QB who we draft.  If you consider he played in a pro style offense, lost many linemen and receivers and was hurt most of the year, he did  a very good job. He was hit like Matt Ryan was this year.  Pressured more than any other QB at that level.  So you know the guy can run the offense, is very smart, can hit any part of the field, is mobile, and is tough.  He is exactly what we need. Like I have said, any QB being drafted is a roll of the dice. Levis might be the next Mitch Trubisky. But I think he has the best chance of being very good.

 

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

Stroud showed me he can handle the next level in the georgia game. Im not concerned what the stats say

[jvan1973]

3 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

So I have read many posts on here about people wanting to bring in one of these retread failed head coaches who are now defensive coordinators or a coordinator that is on one of the most talented teams.  Again, guys and gals, you HAVE to consider the personal.  I seem to remember a few years back when, after the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Byron Leftwich was a hot coaching commodity.  And says ago he was fired.  What changed?  Well, it was never him. It was Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, and a very good offensive team that got them there, not Leftwich.  I would make the same argument for some of these HC prospectives.  Demeco coached a good defense, but they are LOADED.  Before him, Robert Saleh did a great job and now is HC of failing Jets.  So are these guys great coaches or do they just have great personnel?  I would argue that is the same with Eric Bienemy.  And who wants a guy like Leslie Frazier who has very talent to work with and failed as a headcoach.  

 

Also, when it comes to QBs, keep this in mind. Of the top college footbal playoffs QBs, CJ Stroud is by far the worst against the blitz statistically over the season.  The guy does great when everything works out fine. But if he is pressured and has to go off script, he is flat out bad.  And that is not an opinion, that is statistically a fact. Look it up.  And do the Colts ever get blitzed?  Ahhhh...yeah. Like every other play.  Trust me, you do not want that guy as your QB. He will be a miserable failure on this team. Bryce Young is a very smart, quick QB. But he is so small I don't think he will last long. Imagine him getting knocked down that much.

 

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.  I just want an offensive minded HC who brings in a good coordinator and keeps the defensive and special teams coaches in tact. Because they are fine. And I want Will Levis to be the QB who we draft.  If you consider he played in a pro style offense, lost many linemen and receivers and was hurt most of the year, he did  a very good job. He was hit like Matt Ryan was this year.  Pressured more than any other QB at that level.  So you know the guy can run the offense, is very smart, can hit any part of the field, is mobile, and is tough.  He is exactly what we need. Like I have said, any QB being drafted is a roll of the dice. Levis might be the next Mitch Trubisky. But I think he has the best chance of being very good.

 

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

Stroud looked pretty good against Georgia when they blitzed

[coltsfanej]

Didn’t Ben Johnson drop out of the head coaching pool? I thought he said he intends to stay in Detroit. 
 

I do agree with your take on personnel. It’s easy to look good when your side of the ball is loaded. Hopefully they can distinguish which is more of the cause for their success through the interview process. 
 

I’d be ok with any of the top 3 QBs in the draft. They all have the potential to be a top 10 qb in the league but none are perfect prospects. 

 

[richard pallo]

8 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

So I have read many posts on here about people wanting to bring in one of these retread failed head coaches who are now defensive coordinators or a coordinator that is on one of the most talented teams.  Again, guys and gals, you HAVE to consider the personal.  I seem to remember a few years back when, after the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Byron Leftwich was a hot coaching commodity.  And says ago he was fired.  What changed?  Well, it was never him. It was Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, and a very good offensive team that got them there, not Leftwich.  I would make the same argument for some of these HC prospectives.  Demeco coached a good defense, but they are LOADED.  Before him, Robert Saleh did a great job and now is HC of failing Jets.  So are these guys great coaches or do they just have great personnel?  I would argue that is the same with Eric Bienemy.  And who wants a guy like Leslie Frazier who has very talent to work with and failed as a headcoach.  

 

Also, when it comes to QBs, keep this in mind. Of the top college footbal playoffs QBs, CJ Stroud is by far the worst against the blitz statistically over the season.  The guy does great when everything works out fine. But if he is pressured and has to go off script, he is flat out bad.  And that is not an opinion, that is statistically a fact. Look it up.  And do the Colts ever get blitzed?  Ahhhh...yeah. Like every other play.  Trust me, you do not want that guy as your QB. He will be a miserable failure on this team. Bryce Young is a very smart, quick QB. But he is so small I don't think he will last long. Imagine him getting knocked down that much.

 

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.  I just want an offensive minded HC who brings in a good coordinator and keeps the defensive and special teams coaches in tact. Because they are fine. And I want Will Levis to be the QB who we draft.  If you consider he played in a pro style offense, lost many linemen and receivers and was hurt most of the year, he did  a very good job. He was hit like Matt Ryan was this year.  Pressured more than any other QB at that level.  So you know the guy can run the offense, is very smart, can hit any part of the field, is mobile, and is tough.  He is exactly what we need. Like I have said, any QB being drafted is a roll of the dice. Levis might be the next Mitch Trubisky. But I think he has the best chance of being very good.

 

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

Dungy worked out okay.  So did Caroll.  Bellicheck wasn't too bad.  It's called learning from your mistakes.  

[Smonroe]

As a Buckeye who’s seen every game Stroud has played, I’ll tell you to believe your eyes, not numbers on a page.  
 

OSU called so many long developing plays that when the Oline didn’t hold up, just about any QB would be sacked.  He moves well in the pocket and has his eyes downfield under pressure.  
 

I’m not saying he’s better than Young (and I confess to not seeing Levis much) but I am saying stats can be deceiving.   We’d be lucky to get Stroud.  

[Smonroe]

….meant to add, I do agree with you about the coaches.  I prefer a fresh young offensive minded coach.  And I’d love for him to keep Bradley, although I know that won’t happen.  

[chad72]

The OP did vouch for Anthony Gordon as a QB he would like the Colts to get. So I will take what he says with a grain of salt. Plus, he was very much against Jordan Love being drafted for us and in a couple of years, we will evaluate how Jordan Love looks.

 

For now, I will trust our scouts' evaluation over the OP, 1000%. For example, a coach like Dan Quinn, IF he is hired, he was on several SB squads (2013-2014 with Seahawks as DC) and on the 2016 Falcons. So, I am sure he has learnt from his mistakes too, like @richard pallo hinted.

 

Ultimately, Dan Quinn doesn't control any mistakes his QB makes, and his defenses do tire out in the 4th quarter from what I have seen (based on the 2014 and 2016 comebacks by Patriots against his Ds, and the 49ers pulling away vs the Cowboys yesterday). So, given our 4th quarter woes, we will need a QB that can play ball control in the 4th quarter and an OL that can run against the best of teams in the 4th quarter to finish games. Whoever fits that profile is what I want. From Wentz's 2021 season to the 2022 season, the 4th qtr. has not been kind to us. But we have a long hill to climb, and a lot of us will be happy right now with winning the division.

 

I trust Ballard and their coaching search over any keyboard warriors.

 

 

[smittywerb]

YYeah we disagree about Byron and Saleh.

 

Leftwich was the OC when Tom lead the league in yards and was there for the SB. This year that team dealt with changing lineups because of injury and a WASHED 45 year old Tom Brady.  Was Byron the best OC this year?  Meh, no.  But he didn’t deserve to be fired

 

Saleh, his problem is he does not have a QB.  He had that team playing at good level but once teams realized they still had Zach Wilson as their qb it was over.

 

I get what you’re trying to say, but we can’t say they were successful because personnel when any team is successful because of its personnel.  You can be the greatest coach ever but if you don’t have the pieces to do what you want to do then it’s not to work.  The flip side of your argument is that what happens if we get a coach that has the pieces but don’t know what to do with them.  Personnel and coaching goes hand in hand and you can’t be successful without the other 

[Nickster]

10 hours ago, Stephen said:

Stroud showed me he can handle the next level in the georgia game. Im not concerned what the stats say

That's the only game I really ever sat and intentionally, purposely watched him play, and he looked great.

 

That being said I never commit to college QBs and how they translate to The League. 

 

People that have big positions and big salaries are wrong all the time about them.  I think there is much more hope than certainty with QBs than other positions.  Some guys at other positions are going to be at least productive, but QBs are drafted high and often pretty much worthless.

 

I've said many times that QBs are more like drafting baseball hitters.  Rarely a a sure thing. I think in the NFL in other positions the probabilities of busting are much less at other positions mainly because measurable talent is not the most important thing for Qbs.  There has to be minimum arm talent, but that is not the deciding factor.  It's pretty intangible most of the time with college QB prospects and their translation to the NFL. 

[Stephen]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

That's the only game I really ever sat and intentionally, purposely watched him play, and he looked great.

 

That being said I never commit to college QBs and how they translate to The League. 

 

People that have big positions and big salaries are wrong all the time about them.  I think there is much more hope than certainty with QBs than other positions.  Some guys at other positions are going to be at least productive, but QBs are drafted high and often pretty much worthless.

 

I've said many times that QBs are more like drafting baseball hitters.  Rarely a a sure thing. I think in the NFL in other positions the probabilities of busting are much less at other positions mainly because measurable talent is not the most important thing for Qbs.  There has to be minimum arm talent, but that is not the deciding factor.  It's pretty intangible most of the time with college QB prospects and their translation to the NFL. 

Personally I think Strouds peak is joe burrow. Levis peak is josh Allen and richardson is lamar jackson.Id rather have burrow

[Nickster]

I'd take any of those 3 though!

[ShuteAt168]

5 hours ago, chad72 said:

The OP did vouch for Anthony Gordon as a QB he would like the Colts to get. So I will take what he says with a grain of salt. Plus, he was very much against Jordan Love being drafted for us and in a couple of years, we will evaluate how Jordan Love looks.

 

For now, I will trust our scouts' evaluation over the OP, 1000%. For example, a coach like Dan Quinn, IF he is hired, he was on several SB squads (2013-2014 with Seahawks as DC) and on the 2016 Falcons. So, I am sure he has learnt from his mistakes too, like @richard pallo hinted.

 

Ultimately, Dan Quinn doesn't control any mistakes his QB makes, and his defenses do tire out in the 4th quarter from what I have seen (based on the 2014 and 2016 comebacks by Patriots against his Ds, and the 49ers pulling away vs the Cowboys yesterday). So, given our 4th quarter woes, we will need a QB that can play ball control in the 4th quarter and an OL that can run against the best of teams in the 4th quarter to finish games. Whoever fits that profile is what I want. From Wentz's 2021 season to the 2022 season, the 4th qtr. has not been kind to us. But we have a long hill to climb, and a lot of us will be happy right now with winning the division.

 

I trust Ballard and their coaching search over any keyboard warriors.

 

 

Ballard hired McDaniels and Reich. You’re more trusting than I am. 

[husker61]

11 hours ago, richard pallo said:

Dungy worked out okay.  So did Caroll.  Bellicheck wasn't too bad.  It's called learning from your mistakes.  

 Bill bellicheck’s winning record without Brady is under 50%. This backs up the opening post theory. Dungy had manning and carol had Wilson. Very few coaches win with more than one team if going to a team that isn’t a winning team when they go there. How many coaches have turned multiple loosing teams around? It’s a pretty short list I believe. Is it the coach or the right qb that makes a team win?

[Happy2BeHere]

Mascots can turn a team around…here is a prime example:

 

 

blue’s gotta do better.  

[Moosejawcolt]

20 hours ago, lennymoore24 said:

So I have read many posts on here about people wanting to bring in one of these retread failed head coaches who are now defensive coordinators or a coordinator that is on one of the most talented teams.  Again, guys and gals, you HAVE to consider the personal.  I seem to remember a few years back when, after the Bucs won the Super Bowl, Byron Leftwich was a hot coaching commodity.  And says ago he was fired.  What changed?  Well, it was never him. It was Tom Brady, Bruce Arians, and a very good offensive team that got them there, not Leftwich.  I would make the same argument for some of these HC prospectives.  Demeco coached a good defense, but they are LOADED.  Before him, Robert Saleh did a great job and now is HC of failing Jets.  So are these guys great coaches or do they just have great personnel?  I would argue that is the same with Eric Bienemy.  And who wants a guy like Leslie Frazier who has very talent to work with and failed as a headcoach.  

 

Also, when it comes to QBs, keep this in mind. Of the top college footbal playoffs QBs, CJ Stroud is by far the worst against the blitz statistically over the season.  The guy does great when everything works out fine. But if he is pressured and has to go off script, he is flat out bad.  And that is not an opinion, that is statistically a fact. Look it up.  And do the Colts ever get blitzed?  Ahhhh...yeah. Like every other play.  Trust me, you do not want that guy as your QB. He will be a miserable failure on this team. Bryce Young is a very smart, quick QB. But he is so small I don't think he will last long. Imagine him getting knocked down that much.

 

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.  I just want an offensive minded HC who brings in a good coordinator and keeps the defensive and special teams coaches in tact. Because they are fine. And I want Will Levis to be the QB who we draft.  If you consider he played in a pro style offense, lost many linemen and receivers and was hurt most of the year, he did  a very good job. He was hit like Matt Ryan was this year.  Pressured more than any other QB at that level.  So you know the guy can run the offense, is very smart, can hit any part of the field, is mobile, and is tough.  He is exactly what we need. Like I have said, any QB being drafted is a roll of the dice. Levis might be the next Mitch Trubisky. But I think he has the best chance of being very good.

 

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

Like I said in a  previous post. It's not that these guys failurescit is their inability to develop a  young. Out of all these hires u need to know what arevthe prospcetice coaches plans of developing the next guy. I am not sold on the Philly OC. I think their schedule wax embarrassingly easy. Yes they performed well but I think next year will be a true indicator of how good Hurts really is. I think San Fran is  going to make it a night more for him next week. They will keep him in the pocket and make him play qb. I think u will c next week just how good Hurts will be over the long haul. I was not overly  impressed  with him against the Colts because they did  just that.

[LJpalmbeacher2]

11 hours ago, chad72 said:

 

I trust Ballard and their coaching search over any keyboard warriors.

 

 

 

In 6 full seasons as GM, a sub .500 record, 0 division titles, 1 playoff win, twice he's led the colts to a Top 4 pick or better, no QB going forward, no Dominant pass rusher, still a question at LT, no #1 WR, etc....and only still here because it's financially better to keep him than Fire him and pay him AND a new GM.

 

With a resume like that, I don't trust him with anything more than getting Irsay a sandwich and a Diet Coke.  Lol

[Defjamz26]

On 1/22/2023 at 11:20 PM, lennymoore24 said:

So just please, when evaluating these coaches and QBs, consider the talent they are working with.  CJ Stroud has all day to throw the ball to future NFL receivers. That makes a huge difference.  If you went by college productivity, Stetson Bennett would be the best QB.  Doesn't work like that.  Same with coaches.

 

I always find the argument over what type of help a QB has silly. When a QB doesn’t have a good supporting cast and plays poorly, the narrative is “he doesn’t”

have an enough protection and weapons”. When a QB has a good supporting cast and plays well, the narrative is that he’s just a product of the system and anyone would be good if they had those NFL caliber receivers to throw too and that much time to throw.

 

It’s like the only way anyone will be satisfied is if some guy goes to an SEC school and has no weapons or protection but manages to somehow put up 4,000 yards passing with 35 TDs and 6 INTs while playing Alabama and Georgia.

 

 

 

On 1/22/2023 at 11:20 PM, lennymoore24 said:

For me, as HC I wanted Ben Johnson from Detroit who did a lot with not much.  But with him out, it makes it really tough. MAYBE Callahan, but he does have amazing talent to work with.

You have to pick a side. You keep looking for guys who beat the odds versus a stacked deck. You can’t constantly rule people out every-time they have help. QBs should have good protection and weapons. Offensive coordinators should have talent at QB, RB, and WR.

 

It’s nice when you have guys who can do a lot with a little or virtually nothing, but those are outliers. The truth is whether it’s a QB or an OC, chances are if they are highly regarded they likely come from a place where they did have great talent to work with. It’s doesn’t lessen what they are worth though. You have to scout the player/coach and not just what was around them.