Are we YEARS away from contention?

[Myles]

13 minutes ago, rayski said:

Strong overreaction here, which is fairly typical on teams forums where the team had been successful over a long period of a time, visiting a Patriots forum they acting like headless chickens now.

This team is fun, we need a qb but I hate to break it to you for some teams it takes decades to find a reliable long term answer, regardless who the GM or HC is, It is what it is in the NFL

That is my fear.   Especially if we give up lots of good picks to move up.  Then you cannot even have a good team that can win with an average QB.  You are hoping you hit on an elite QB that carry a team for a year or 2.   

I really don't want to end up like the Jets have.   We know what they gave up to draft Darnold.   After a couple years they had to draft Zach Wilson with the 2nd overall pick in the draft.   Now they benched Zach and will need to find a QB yet again.

[2006Coltsbestever]

11 minutes ago, rayski said:

Strong overreaction here, which is fairly typical on teams forums where the team had been successful over a long period of a time, visiting a Patriots forum they acting like headless chickens now.

This team is fun, we need a qb but I hate to break it to you for some teams it takes decades to find a reliable long term answer, regardless who the GM or HC is, It is what it is in the NFL

Yep, Pats fans are jumping off the cliff at this point. Now they know how we feel for a change. There website is hilarious to read. We had Peyton and Luck for 2 decades so we were spolied + even Rivers who was good for the 1 year in 2020. They had Brady for 2 decades they were spoiled. Last 3 years for the Pats have been a dumpster fire, welcome to the average football world now.

[2006Coltsbestever]

Bill Belichick without Brady = 23-23 counting his 1 playoff loss last year. Wow, that is great isn't it? Frank Reich has a better record than Belichick has had over the last 3 years = 23-20-1 counting his 1 playoff loss in 2020 with 3 different QB's before being fired. Both have made the playoffs once and Reich has less losses and same amount of wins.

[Rhodelesstraveled]

Yes, I believe we are a long way off.  

[crazycolt1]

This narrative that we are YEARS away from contention is really a silly notion. All it takes is a couple of players in the right positions to quickly turn things around.  The Colts went 3-13 to 13-3 in one season so to think things can't turn around is wrong. The negative mindset is contagious in this forum. 

[Nickster]

3 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This narrative that we are YEARS away from contention is really a silly notion. All it takes is a couple of players in the right positions to quickly turn things around.  The Colts went 3-13 to 13-3 in one season so to think things can't turn around is wrong. The negative mindset is contagious in this forum. 

 

I think the results on the field have more to do with the negative contagion than a virus on this forum. 

[Nickster]

4 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bill Belichick without Brady = 23-23 counting his 1 playoff loss last year. Wow, that is great isn't it? Frank Reich has a better record than Belichick has had over the last 3 years = 23-20-1 counting his 1 playoff loss in 2020 with 3 different QB's before being fired. Both have made the playoffs once and Reich has less losses and same amount of wins.

If you add BBs first 6 years coaching without TB in the  90s, he has a record of 64-77 sans Brady for a career with 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, and no division titles. 

 

So that is a record for close to 9 seasons.  Kinda makes me wonder a little.   I guess you could add the Brady 1st gane injury year when NE went 10-6.  They didn't make the post but that would increase the record to 74 and 83. 

 

What is safe to say though is that BB has not won consistently without Brady.  

[crazycolt1]

11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I think the results on the field have more to do with the negative contagion than a virus on this forum. 

The overreaction is contagious. This fire everyone mindset is what I am referring to. Just because we have a problem at a couple of positions does not warrant the firing of everyone. There is also some who say silly things like a new owner is needed. Anyone who has known Irsay since he was known as Jimmy should know by now that he is a good owner. Yes he is eccentric but only does what he thinks is best for the Colts. 

[King Colt]

On the opposite side of the coin look at the 2022 Rams!

[crazycolt1]

16 minutes ago, Nickster said:

If you add BBs first 6 years coaching without TB in the  90s, he has a record of 64-77 sans Brady for a career with 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, and no division titles. 

 

So that is a record for close to 9 seasons.  Kinda makes me wonder a little.   I guess you could add the Brady 1st gane injury year when NE went 10-6.  They didn't make the post but that would increase the record to 74 and 83. 

 

What is safe to say though is that BB has not won consistently without Brady.  

You don't have to wonder at all.  The records speak for themselves. 

[Nickster]

14 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The overreaction is contagious. This fire everyone mindset is what I am referring to. Just because we have a problem at a couple of positions does not warrant the firing of everyone. There is also some who say silly things like a new owner is needed. Anyone who has known Irsay since he was known as Jimmy should know by now that he is a good owner. Yes he is eccentric but only does what he thinks is best for the Colts. 

I don't think Jim is a great owner.  Not right now anyway.  And I don't care that he's eccentric.   That is irrelevant.  I don't care he's a Super fan.  To me that is irrelevant or even detrimental with too much emotional involvement and not enough cold business savvy. 

 

I think he meddles.   That is rarely good.    

 

I think in the Pags/Grigs era there were some headscratching moves from Irsay.

Maybe he's a good owner when he has HOF level QBs and stays out of the mix, but right now I'd put him bottom of the barrell and I would guess that many coaches/players/gm types would think twice about coming to INDY with what they've seen from Jim lately. 

[Fluke_33]

5 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Bill Belichick without Brady = 23-23 counting his 1 playoff loss last year. Wow, that is great isn't it? Frank Reich has a better record than Belichick has had over the last 3 years = 23-20-1 counting his 1 playoff loss in 2020 with 3 different QB's before being fired. Both have made the playoffs once and Reich has less losses and same amount of wins.

Does that include in cleveland?

[Nickster]

Just now, Fluke_33 said:

Does that include in cleveland?

No but my reply does.

 

1 minute ago, Fluke_33 said:

Does that include in cleveland?

"If you add BBs first 6 years coaching without TB in the  90s, he has a record of 64-77 sans Brady for a career with 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, and no division titles. 

 

So that is a record for close to 9 seasons.  Kinda makes me wonder a little.   I guess you could add the Brady 1st gane injury year when NE went 10-6.  They didn't make the post but that would increase the record to 74 and 83. 

 

What is safe to say though is that BB has not won consistently without Brady.  "

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

54 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

The overreaction is contagious. This fire everyone mindset is what I am referring to. Just because we have a problem at a couple of positions does not warrant the firing of everyone. There is also some who say silly things like a new owner is needed. Anyone who has known Irsay since he was known as Jimmy should know by now that he is a good owner. Yes he is eccentric but only does what he thinks is best for the Colts. 

indy would not have a team without irsay

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

No but my reply does.

 

"If you add BBs first 6 years coaching without TB in the  90s, he has a record of 64-77 sans Brady for a career with 2 playoff appearances, 0 playoff wins, and no division titles. 

 

So that is a record for close to 9 seasons.  Kinda makes me wonder a little.   I guess you could add the Brady 1st gane injury year when NE went 10-6.  They didn't make the post but that would increase the record to 74 and 83. 

 

What is safe to say though is that BB has not won consistently without Brady.  "

does that mean a team needs an elite qb to win?? does a coach really matter??

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

57 minutes ago, King Colt said:

On the opposite side of the coin look at the 2022 Rams!

they lost some elite talent

[philba101]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:28 PM, Superman said:

We're a QB and HC away. Just like basically every other team. 

 

There's nothing else preventing this team from being ready/able to contend if we get those two decisions right. 

I would add an O-line to this equation because even if we have Superman (no pun intended) at QB, he is not effective if he is running for his life or laying on his back all the time.

[crazycolt1]

47 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I don't think Jim is a great owner.  Not right now anyway.  And I don't care that he's eccentric.   That is irrelevant.  I don't care he's a Super fan.  To me that is irrelevant or even detrimental with too much emotional involvement and not enough cold business savvy. 

 

I think he meddles.   That is rarely good.    

 

I think in the Pags/Grigs era there were some headscratching moves from Irsay.

Maybe he's a good owner when he has HOF level QBs and stays out of the mix, but right now I'd put him bottom of the barrell and I would guess that many coaches/players/gm types would think twice about coming to INDY with what they've seen from Jim lately. 

The bottom of the barrel? There is no way that Irsay is considered a bad owner to the league.  What you call meddling is him stepping in and taking control.  So just because he don't sit on his hands and stays quite you call him bottom of the barrel.  

Nonsense. 

[philba101]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

The overreaction is contagious. This fire everyone mindset is what I am referring to. Just because we have a problem at a couple of positions does not warrant the firing of everyone. There is also some who say silly things like a new owner is needed. Anyone who has known Irsay since he was known as Jimmy should know by now that he is a good owner. Yes he is eccentric but only does what he thinks is best for the Colts. 

I think you are right that overractions can often be contagious. But, I don't see this team getting back to contention with just simple tweaks. This team has been tweaked to death this year (kicker, O-line, O-line, O-line, QB, QB, QB, OC, Coach fired, Interim Coach hired, etc.) The only one that has not been tweaked in this process is the GM. Without wholesale change most Colts fans are reasonable not to expect much progress with the same people doing the same things. Sometimes wiping the slate clean and getting a whole new start is needed to move forward; it is rarely pretty but probably necessary at this point.

[Superman]

32 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I would add an O-line to this equation because even if we have Superman (no pun intended) at QB, he is not effective if he is running for his life or laying on his back all the time.

 

OL is important, but it's not that hard to fix the OL.

 

I also think coaching and QB play have hurt the OL over the last season and a half.

[philba101]

1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

OL is important, but it's not that hard to fix the OL.

 

I also think coaching and QB play have hurt the OL over the last season and a half.

I agree our coaching and QB play have not helped the O-line at all this year. Perhaps the O-line can be fixed quickly but I don't have faith that are current GM is the one to do that quickly.

[throwing BBZ]

On 12/5/2022 at 5:00 PM, ClaytonColt said:

It stuns me that there are so many people who are still positive about how close we are.

 

It's a roster with terrible contracts at most of the secondary positions, no talent at the key ones and a back office who have brought us here.

 

Even if we drafted a quarterback this year we'd be losing some of our most talented players by the time they'd settled in. We've built in the wrong way for 5 years and it will likely take even longer to change that around. We're right on the borderline of being the Browns.

 

 Yet deese bums just gave Philly and Dallas a run for their money.

 Contracts are written with outs after 3 years. We have a superior capologist that knows how to plan ahead. We can rebalance some every year.

 So get a grip on it!

[Solid84]

5 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This narrative that we are YEARS away from contention is really a silly notion. All it takes is a couple of players in the right positions to quickly turn things around.  The Colts went 3-13 to 13-3 in one season so to think things can't turn around is wrong. The negative mindset is contagious in this forum. 

We’re not just looking at having to get a few players though. 
 

We’re looking at…

-   A new HC (I count Saturday as new as well),

-   A new OC,

-   A new playbook,

-   Possibly a new GM,

-   Possibly a new DC,

-   New assistent coaches,

-   A new QB,

-   New Olinemen.

 

A lot of things need to click for this to work. Even IF we nail the QB this draft we’ve seen first hand what a bad playcaller and a bad playbook can do to an offense.

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

OL is important, but it's not that hard to fix the OL.

 

I also think coaching and QB play have hurt the OL over the last season and a half.

We’ve had a bad Oline for two seasons now. It’s clearly not THAT easy to fix. 

[Superman]

5 minutes ago, philba101 said:

I agree our coaching and QB play have not helped the O-line at all this year. Perhaps the O-line can be fixed quickly but I don't have faith that are current GM is the one to do that quickly.

 

Who built the OL that was top five in the league for 3 seasons?

[Superman]

20 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

We’ve had a bad Oline for two seasons now. It’s clearly not THAT easy to fix. 

 

Not really. The LT position was problematic last year, the rest of the OL was better than good enough. Other positions have slipped this season, partly due to a couple of underperforming players. They thought they could swap out LTs, but clearly the line needs more work. Still, won't be that difficult to fix.

[Solid84]

25 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Not really. The LT position was problematic last year, the rest of the OL was better than good enough. Other positions have slipped this season, partly due to a couple of underperforming players. They thought they could swap out LTs, but clearly the line needs more work. Still, won't be that difficult to fix.

They ranked 30th in pass protection. They were good at run blocking, but they were a big reason for Wentz not being good enough. 

[Superman]

2 minutes ago, Solid84 said:

They ranked 30th in pass protection. They were good at run blocking, but they were a big reason for Wentz not being good enough. 

 

By what metrics?

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Oline has had some bad moments this year but the real issue is not picking up the blitz. Since Saturday has come in the oline has improved. But Matt Ryan is still not recognizing blitzes, not getting players into the right spots, and guys like Taylor are just not good at picking it up. That includes TE and recovers too. 

[Solid84]

1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

By what metrics?

PFF score I believe.

[Timeout]

6 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Who built the OL that was top five in the league for 3 seasons?

Same person to have this poor OL now? Same guy that depends on rookies and doesn't bring in depth? I see what your saying Superman but it goes both ways. These are grown men making a living playing a kids game. Making the bucks! You can't keep blaming coaches and QB when colts have a GM that never has brought in a franchise QB. Ballard just weirdly leaves some positions alone. LT and and his QB choses comes back to bite him.

I don't agree with a lot of what I read on here saying we need a tougher coach. I'm not big on coaches motivating in the NFL. If your players need the coach to yell at them at this level, GM not drafting the right players. That isn't what your saying, I read in other thread. Harbaugh is coming unless he doesn't want the job. IMO Not who I want, but Irsay wants him.. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

16 hours ago, Fluke_33 said:

Does that include in cleveland?

No, that is just last 3 years.

[throwing BBZ]

9 hours ago, Timeout said:

Same person to have this poor OL now? Same guy that depends on rookies and doesn't bring in depth? I see what your saying Superman but it goes both ways. These are grown men making a living playing a kids game. Making the bucks! You can't keep blaming coaches and QB when colts have a GM that never has brought in a franchise QB. Ballard just weirdly leaves some positions alone. LT and and his QB choses comes back to bite him.

I don't agree with a lot of what I read on here saying we need a tougher coach. I'm not big on coaches motivating in the NFL. If your players need the coach to yell at them at this level, GM not drafting the right players. That isn't what your saying, I read in other thread. Harbaugh is coming unless he doesn't want the job. IMO Not who I want, but Irsay wants him.. 

 

 Ballard would have had to be sold on Pryor by his position coach, Reich, and anyone else that looks at the position. He also brought in Kelly who has been a solid backup/spot starter. And drafted a highly rated though inexperienced LT prosepect that when pushed into the lineup is improving rapidly.

 Seems your head is in... the clouds.

 Same at RG. Pinter played quite well as a spot starter at C last year and the same people sold Ballard on his ability. Fries is a 2nd year player with the size and strength to compete. He is making some mistakes like 99% of young first year starters do. But he s also improving. 

[bluephantom87]

22 hours ago, crazycolt1 said:

This narrative that we are YEARS away from contention is really a silly notion. All it takes is a couple of players in the right positions to quickly turn things around.  The Colts went 3-13 to 13-3 in one season so to think things can't turn around is wrong. The negative mindset is contagious in this forum. 

 

Is it REALLY a silly notion to believe that this team could be YEARS away from contention? I simply pondered the question when I started the post and judging from the responses I take it that MANY feel it is certainly POSSIBLE. I don’t think it’s a NEGATIVE mindset but more of an OPINION of what some FEEL based on CURRENT results and the direction of the team moving forward.

 

Your OPINION of it being SILLY and leading to a NEGATIVE mindset that is CONTAGIOUS on this forum is only considered "positive" I guess if they SEE it YOUR way. Me personally I think the forum is a cool place for Colt fans to chat about various topics concerning the team. With that being said PEOPLE will NOT always agree. Some WILL see things differently.

 

The LATEST nfl power rankings have the Colts at #31. Do I agree with that? No but OTHER rankings have us BOTTOM five. Is that where we REALLY want to be after SIX years under Ballard? I HOPE not! NOW let's dig a little deeper... 

 

Yes anything IS possible as your example pointed out but can BALLARD make that happen? Six years in: no franchise qb, no foundational type LT, no EXPERIENCED hc or oc, o-line is subpar, no ELITE wr or de and our pass rush is STILL suspect. Six years in: no division titles or SB contending runs. Six years in and Ballard is UNDER .500 as gm.

 

Six years in: teams like the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens, Dolphins, Bengals and Chargers have sprouted up with young gun qbs that are vying for AFC supremacy. Don't forget about the Titans. I think there are more FRINGE teams in the afc that are CLOSER to a move or two away like the Jets, Raiders, Browns, Pats, Steelers and Jags. I don't think ANY of those teams will just sit back thus making it even HARDER for the Colts. Only time will tell but the Colts DEFINITELY have their work cut out moving forward.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Eagles have built a SB team twice in 5 years.  No it doesn’t take long. Only a bad GM will make it take longer.

[crazycolt1]

16 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Is it REALLY a silly notion to believe that this team could be YEARS away from contention? I simply pondered the question when I started the post and judging from the responses I take it that MANY feel it is certainly POSSIBLE. I don’t think it’s a NEGATIVE mindset but more of an OPINION of what some FEEL based on CURRENT results and the direction of the team moving forward.

 

Your OPINION of it being SILLY and leading to a NEGATIVE mindset that is CONTAGIOUS on this forum is only considered "positive" I guess if they SEE it YOUR way. Me personally I think the forum is a cool place for Colt fans to chat about various topics concerning the team. With that being said PEOPLE will NOT always agree. Some WILL see things differently.

 

The LATEST nfl power rankings have the Colts at #31. Do I agree with that? No but OTHER rankings have us BOTTOM five. Is that where we REALLY want to be after SIX years under Ballard? I HOPE not! NOW let's dig a little deeper... 

 

Yes anything IS possible as your example pointed out but can BALLARD make that happen? Six years in: no franchise qb, no foundational type LT, no EXPERIENCED hc or oc, o-line is subpar, no ELITE wr or de and our pass rush is STILL suspect. Six years in: no division titles or SB contending runs. Six years in and Ballard is UNDER .500 as gm.

 

Six years in: teams like the Bills, Chiefs, Ravens, Dolphins, Bengals and Chargers have sprouted up with young gun qbs that are vying for AFC supremacy. Don't forget about the Titans. I think there are more FRINGE teams in the afc that are CLOSER to a move or two away like the Jets, Raiders, Browns, Pats, Steelers and Jags. I don't think ANY of those teams will just sit back thus making it even HARDER for the Colts. Only time will tell but the Colts DEFINITELY have their work cut out moving forward.

Using capital letters does what? I didn't bother to read your war and piece article. I don't feel the need to write a book explaining myself.  

Carry on. 

[bluephantom87]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Using capital letters does what? I didn't bother to read your war and piece article. I don't feel the need to write a book explaining myself.  

Carry on. 

 

Ahh. Carry on. Nice military term. A place where merits are based on results. You either get the job done or you don't. So it took the Colts six long years under Ballard to NO not win the division but be ranked in the BOTTOM five of the league yet you believe it's out the question that it could possibly take years for this team to contend under his leadership? So if a guy falls asleep with a lit cigarette and burns the house down does he get credit for saving some cherished pictures?!  Just asking for a friend.... 

[crazycolt1]

3 minutes ago, bluephantom87 said:

 

Ahh. Carry on. Nice military term. A place where merits are based on results. You either get the job done or you don't. So it took the Colts six long years under Ballard to NO not win the division but be ranked in the BOTTOM five of the league yet you believe it's out the question that it could possibly take years for this team to contend under his leadership? So if a guy falls asleep with a lit cigarette and burns the house down does he get credit for saving some cherished pictures?!  Just asking for a friend.... 

Over thinking this is one of those contagious issues I was referring to. 

[bluephantom87]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Over thinking this is one of those contagious issues I was referring to. 

 

We'll call truce on this one... 

[LJpalmbeacher2]

20 hours ago, Superman said:

 

Who built the OL that was top five in the league for 3 seasons?

 

40% of it was Polian(Constanzo) and Griggs(Kelly) and 20% of it was a guard with a top 5 pick. 

[crazycolt1]

4 hours ago, LJpalmbeacher2 said:

 

40% of it was Polian(Constanzo) and Griggs(Kelly) and 20% of it was a guard with a top 5 pick. 

Rub some dirt on it.