Damning Reports on the Colts Organizational Moves!

[r a y s k i]

I guess the world did not end today

[stitches]

19 hours ago, Superman said:

 

I'm sure everyone who knows Jeff is supportive of him. Doesn't mean they think he should have been hired the way he was. 

 

 

To live in your world, where there are no shades of grey, but everything is black or white, and no exceptions are ever made. People perceived Peyton Manning as a de facto coach 15 years ago when he was still in his physical prime. Call it hypocritical if you want. I think it would be perceived differently.

 

 

Yes, he acknowledged it fully.

 

My point is not whether Cowher is right. My point is that he had a substantive, nuanced reaction to Saturday's hiring, providing evidence that it's not just sensationalizers reacting negatively to this situation.

Meh, I don't mind any of them thinking it's not particularly good move to hire a coach without experience. But all this moaning and hysterics is coming off a bit fake and forced to me. And HYPOCRITICAL. Joe Thomas doing that shtick while he himself was begging to be hired as Browns HC not very long ago without having any coaching experience. Bill Cowher throwing a fit after he got national broadcasting deal without having 1 day of broadcasting experience before that... Spare me the theatrics please... 

 

Quite honestly, I was not a huge fan of the hiring and still am not, but those types of one-sided histrionics actually make me root for Jeff even harder and almost make me reconsider my stance on tanking. Now I actually want him to sweep the league and shut some people up. He doesn't deserve any of that pushback for getting an... INTERIM HC gig for 8 games.  

[2006Coltsbestever]

5 minutes ago, stitches said:

Meh, I don't mind any of them thinking it's not particularly good move to hire a coach without experience. But all this moaning and hysterics is coming off a bit fake and forced to me. And HYPOCRITICAL. Joe Thomas doing that shtick while he himself was begging to be hired as Browns HC not very long ago without having any coaching experience. Bill Cowher throwing a fit after he got national broadcasting deal without having 1 day of broadcasting experience before that... Spare me the theatrics please... 

 

Quite honestly, I was not a huge fan of the hiring and still am not, but those types of one-sided hystrionics actually make me root for Jeff even harder and almost make me reconsider my stance on tanking. Now I actually want him to sweep the league and shut some people up. He doesn't deserve any of that pushback. 

Great post, fantastic post! I said the same thing. I don't mind people disagreeing with the Jeff hiring or even saying it is odd but when people say stuff like we are a clown show, Irsay is a clown, we are a laughing stock of the league. That comes off whiny to me and really childish.

[stitches]

17 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Great post, fantastic post! I said the same thing. I don't mind people disagreeing with the Jeff hiring or even saying it is odd but when people say stuff like we are clown show, Irsay is a clown, we are laughing stock of the league. That comes of whiny to me and really childish.

To me the biggest nonsense argument was how it makes a mockery of the coaching profession.... like they already know that Jeff doesn't know what it takes and like they already know he won't be doing his best to prepare this team and coach them through the season. And like it's some huge injustice to the coaches already on the roster, because it wasn't them that got the job. Well you know what? If they actually had done better job coaching we wouldn't be in that predicament to begin with. Who were we supposed to hire? Cowher mentioned Gus Bradley - Gus Bradley has been complete and utter failure everywhere he's been given the chance to be HC. He has about the same winning % as HC as Joe Thomas has as a player... and that's NOT high. Who else? John Fox who had not coached for 6 years and his last stint as HC were complete disaster? We already know what those people offer. We already know they won't be our next HC. Why waste an opportunity on them. Who else? Scott Milanovich? The guy that refused to playcall but we are gonna give him the HC spot. Nah! 

 

The only guy that might have deserved a shot was Bubba, but honestly... I'm not sheddin any tears over it. If he's that good, he will get his shot sooner or later. It's not like the Colts haven't given the league 2 brand new HCs 2 years in a row. If you win and your unit does well, sooner or later you are going to get a shot. 

 

If anything, I'm actually happy Jeff is giving Parks Frazier a chance to playcall. Now that's a young coach with talent who we might be well served to give a look to, if not as a HC, maybe as an OC/playcaller going forward. And if he's not all that good, it's better we learn it now. 

 

Also, they are all talking as if this is Irsay giving Saturday 5 year contract. He's freaking INTERIM head coach. For all we know he will coach this team for 2 months and go back to his broadcasting gig. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, stitches said:

To me the biggest nonsense argument was how it makes a mockery of the coaching profession.... like they already know that Jeff doesn't know what it takes and like they already know he won't be doing his best to prepare this team and coach them through the season. And like it's some huge injustice to the coaches already on the roster, because it wasn't them that got the job. Well you know what? If they actually had done better job coaching we wouldn't be in that predicament to begin with. Who were we supposed to hire? Cowher mentioned Gus Bradley - Gus Bradley has been complete and utter failure everywhere he's been given the chance to be HC. He has about the same winning % as HC as Joe Thomas has as a player... and that's NOT high. Who else? John Fox who had not coached for 6 years and his last stint as HC were complete disaster? We already know what those people offer. We already know they won't be our next HC. Why waste an opportunity on them. Who else? Scott Milanovich? The guy that refused to playcall but we are gonna give him the HC spot. Nah! 

 

The only guy that might have deserved a shot was Bubba, but honestly... I'm not sheddin any tears over it. If he's that good, he will get his shot sooner or later. It's not like the Colts haven't given the league 2 brand new HCs 2 years in a row. If you win and your unit does well, sooner or later you are going to get a shot. 

 

Also, they are all talking as if this is Irsay giving Saturday 5 year contract. He's freaking INTERIM head coach. For all we know he will coach this team for 2 months and go back to his broadcasting gig. 

You are on a roll today, a great roll. If I didn't know any better you are reading my mind. 

[Superman]

24 minutes ago, stitches said:

Meh, I don't mind any of them thinking it's not particularly good move to hire a coach without experience. But all this moaning and hysterics is coming off a bit fake and forced to me. And HYPOCRITICAL. Joe Thomas doing that shtick while he himself was begging to be hired as Browns HC not very long ago without having any coaching experience. Bill Cowher throwing a fit after he got national broadcasting deal without having 1 day of broadcasting experience before that... Spare me the theatrics please... 

 

Quite honestly, I was not a huge fan of the hiring and still am not, but those types of one-sided histrionics actually make me root for Jeff even harder and almost make me reconsider my stance on tanking. Now I actually want him to sweep the league and shut some people up. He doesn't deserve any of that pushback for getting an... INTERIM HC gig for 8 games.  

 

Your reaction to the reaction is noted. That was never my point though. 

 

There is no denying that the reactions to the Saturday hiring are all over the place, including some noteworthy, reputable people who dislike it. The idea that unnamed NFL execs and coaches would state their disapproval off the record is not surprising, therefore dismissing reports about these reactions is unwarranted. That's been my point all along. Not whether Cowher or Thomas or anyone else is right or wrong, simply that valid, negative reactions do exist. Acting like any media reports on this are just from haters or hacks is silly.

 

These are also not one-sided histrionics. Several people have publicly voiced support for Saturday's hiring, even before yesterday's game. 

 

The bolded is irrelevant. Former players/coaches get national broadcasting deals fresh out of the league all the time, across all sports. It's not close to the same situation. I don't know about the Joe Thomas deal, got a link? 

 

Of course I'm rooting for Saturday, and the Colts. I'm not a pro-tank guy, so I'm not even conflicted there. It was still a questionable process, and no one should be vilified for being real about that.

[stitches]

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Your reaction to the reaction is noted. That was never my point though. 

 

There is no denying that the reactions to the Saturday hiring are all over the place, including some noteworthy, reputable people who dislike it. The idea that unnamed NFL execs and coaches would state their disapproval off the record is not surprising, therefore dismissing reports about these reactions is unwarranted. That's been my point all along. Not whether Cowher or Thomas or anyone else is right or wrong, simply that valid, negative reactions do exist. Acting like any media reports on this are just from haters or hacks is silly.

Oh I don't doubt the reports. There are very likely a lot of people who don't like the hire.

 

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

These are also not one-sided histrionics. Several people have publicly voiced support for Saturday's hiring, even before yesterday's game. 

 

The bolded is irrelevant. Former players/coaches get national broadcasting deals fresh out of the league all the time, across all sports. It's not close to the same situation. I don't know about the Joe Thomas deal, got a link? 

It's not irrelevant. That's one of their main arguments and it shows them to be complete hypocrites. How many journalist students spent years studying broadcasting and then decades honing their skills, only to have their dream job snatched up by a fresh off coaching failure/retirement new "analysts". Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it right. And this doesn't mean the hire of Jeff Saturday is great(again, my problem is not with them saying the hire or the process were bad). It just means the hysteria is largely hypocritical *. NFL coaching is one of the most nepotistic and "incestuous" fields where close to everything is happening through connections and family ties. But all of a sudden the same guys that have benefited from those structures are appalled that Irsay decided to hire his guy... experienced or not, notwithstanding.

 

Here's Joe Thomas throwing his candidacy in for the Browns' HC job just 2 years ago:

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Of course I'm rooting for Saturday, and the Colts. I'm not a pro-tank guy, so I'm not even conflicted there. It was still a questionable process, and no one should be vilified for being real about that.

The process was questionable, no doubt... that's not my problem with all that.

[Goatface Killah]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Meh, I don't mind any of them thinking it's not particularly good move to hire a coach without experience. But all this moaning and hysterics is coming off a bit fake and forced to me. And HYPOCRITICAL. Joe Thomas doing that shtick while he himself was begging to be hired as Browns HC not very long ago without having any coaching experience. Bill Cowher throwing a fit after he got national broadcasting deal without having 1 day of broadcasting experience before that... Spare me the theatrics please... 

 

Quite honestly, I was not a huge fan of the hiring and still am not, but those types of one-sided histrionics actually make me root for Jeff even harder and almost make me reconsider my stance on tanking. Now I actually want him to sweep the league and shut some people up. He doesn't deserve any of that pushback for getting an... INTERIM HC gig for 8 games.  

I think the reaction to hiring Jeff can actually galvanize this team. They hear the chatter and they had to be pretty dejected by the first half of the season. Perhaps the criticism and the accusations of tanking, along with the leadership change, can rejuvenate them to have a strong finish?a "% in the arm" sort of.

 

I think people need to look at the way the Rams have performed this year and understand just how thin the line between success and failure really is in the NFL and stop with the complete drama queen style over reactions to the state of the team. It also illustrates the importance of line play. Without it, its impossible to develop consistency and thats the most important component to success.

 

It is mostly mental in the NFL. The Colts have a talented roster. Look at how Parris Campbell looks rn. How many people wouldve cut him in the offseason? Tons. What a mistake that wouldve been. We have a pretty good defense. We have some weapons when they are all healthy, certainly enough to win. We have a capable QB when he is protected.

 

All Jeff Saturday needs to do is get this OL playing average. Picking up stunts should bot be as hard as they have made it look at times this year. 

 

All Parks Frazier needs to do is find a rythym offensively. And in his first game I felt like the offense looked more in sync than they have in any other game this season. Thats promising. That was the offense I expected to see this season. They avoided negative plays all game long. They ran it well. They were effecient in the passing game. Thats all I ever wanted to see this year. 

 

Cant wait for next week. What a challenge. It should tell us if we have a chance to have a magical finish to the season. I dont think its a total must win but they need to show up and give them hell at a minimum.

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

Meh, I don't mind any of them thinking it's not particularly good move to hire a coach without experience. But all this moaning and hysterics is coming off a bit fake and forced to me. And HYPOCRITICAL. Joe Thomas doing that shtick while he himself was begging to be hired as Browns HC not very long ago without having any coaching experience. Bill Cowher throwing a fit after he got national broadcasting deal without having 1 day of broadcasting experience before that... Spare me the theatrics please... 

 

Quite honestly, I was not a huge fan of the hiring and still am not, but those types of one-sided histrionics actually make me root for Jeff even harder and almost make me reconsider my stance on tanking. Now I actually want him to sweep the league and shut some people up. He doesn't deserve any of that pushback for getting an... INTERIM HC gig for 8 games.  

 

The only thing to me about your Cowher example is that many of the guys in front of the camera followed the EXACT same path he did.  It's totally conventional and within the industry standard to hire a HOF coach or player with no broadcasting experience to do color.  So it wasn't unusual at all when Cowher was hired. It's the way it's almost always done. 

 

That seems obviously quite a bit different than the converse of being hired out of TV directly into coaching.  That had never been done before. 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

To me the biggest nonsense argument was how it makes a mockery of the coaching profession.... like they already know that Jeff doesn't know what it takes and like they already know he won't be doing his best to prepare this team and coach them through the season. And like it's some huge injustice to the coaches already on the roster, because it wasn't them that got the job. Well you know what? If they actually had done better job coaching we wouldn't be in that predicament to begin with. Who were we supposed to hire? Cowher mentioned Gus Bradley - Gus Bradley has been complete and utter failure everywhere he's been given the chance to be HC. He has about the same winning % as HC as Joe Thomas has as a player... and that's NOT high. Who else? John Fox who had not coached for 6 years and his last stint as HC were complete disaster? We already know what those people offer. We already know they won't be our next HC. Why waste an opportunity on them. Who else? Scott Milanovich? The guy that refused to playcall but we are gonna give him the HC spot. Nah! 

 

The only guy that might have deserved a shot was Bubba, but honestly... I'm not sheddin any tears over it. If he's that good, he will get his shot sooner or later. It's not like the Colts haven't given the league 2 brand new HCs 2 years in a row. If you win and your unit does well, sooner or later you are going to get a shot. 

 

If anything, I'm actually happy Jeff is giving Parks Frazier a chance to playcall. Now that's a young coach with talent who we might be well served to give a look to, if not as a HC, maybe as an OC/playcaller going forward. And if he's not all that good, it's better we learn it now. 

 

Also, they are all talking as if this is Irsay giving Saturday 5 year contract. He's freaking INTERIM head coach. For all we know he will coach this team for 2 months and go back to his broadcasting gig. 

 

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying but surely you can understand that viewpoint can't you?  

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

Oh I don't doubt the reports. There are very likely a lot of people who don't like the hire.

 

It's not irrelevant. That's one of their main arguments and it shows them to be complete hypocrites. How many journalist students spent years studying broadcasting and then decades honing their skills, only to have their dream job snatched up by a fresh off coaching failure/retirement new "analysts". Just because it happens a lot doesn't make it right. And this doesn't mean the hire of Jeff Saturday is great(again, my problem is not with them saying the hire or the process were bad). It just means the hysteria is largely hypocritical *. NFL coaching is one of the most nepotistic and "incestuous" fields where close to everything is happening through connections and family ties. But all of a sudden the same guys that have benefited from those structures are appalled that Irsay decided to hire his guy... experienced or not, notwithstanding.

 

Here's Joe Thomas throwing his candidacy in for the Browns' HC job just 2 years ago:

 

 

 

The process was questionable, no doubt... that's not my problem with all that.

How many journalism student are able to actually analyze NFL football?

 

How many viewers want to see some pencilneck from NYU's communication school on TV discussing coverages?  

 

How many of these guys were ever NFL analysts?  Now I can answer that for you, the answer is ZERO.

 

Now if they just gave the play by play job to one of these guys, that would be weird.   Summerall was incredible, but as far as I know, none of the other Play by Play guys ever played NFL football. 

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't disagree with any of what you're saying but surely you can understand that viewpoint can't you?  

I understand and I agree Jeff Saturday might not be great HC because he has no experience and that might hinder him. I do not agree with the whole "you are making a mockery of coaching" nonsense. The NFL is one of the greatest examples of good old boys clubs where everybody gets hired for who he knows and/or is son/brother/relative of. All of those ex-headcoaches bemoaning the hiring as some affront to coaching have benefited from that system for years and have made careers out of it. This is the biggest problem I have with the hysterics from those pundits. It's the hypocrisy.

[Nickster]

Just now, stitches said:

I understand and I agree Jeff Saturday might not be great HC because he has no experience and that might hinder him. I do not agree with the whole "you are making a mockery of coaching" nonsense. The NFL is one of the greatest examples of good old boys clubs where everybody gets hired for who he knows and/or is son/brother/relative of. All of those ex-headcoaches bemoaning the hiring as some affront to coaching have benefited from that system for years and have made careers out of it. This is the biggest problem I have with the hysterics from those pundits. It's the hypocrisy.

 

I don't think it's hypocrisy personally.  What would Cowher care for for example?  He's a HOF or will be.  He could take his pick each year of a number of HC positions for extremely high pay if he wanted to.  

 

How is he being hypocritical?  It seems quite the opposite of it as far as I'm concerned.  He has nothing to personally gain by having his viewpoint.

 

Fact is to me, in some industries outside, unconventional hires might make good sense.  But in others, dues paying is probably the way to go.  For instance, in my field, I'd like to see educrats jettisoned and bring in some people from other fields to re organize schools.  And I don't see that being good at teaching has anything to do with becoming an administrator.  Most admins I've known over the decades weren't even very effective teachers.

 

But if they hired some dude from amazon to run the school system, I would understand how people that have worked in the profession might be miffed by it. 

 

 

[stitches]

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

How many journalism student are able to actually analyze NFL football?

 

How many viewers want to see some pencilneck from NYU's communication school on TV discussing coverages?  

Right out of college? Noone... but there are plenty of journalists and commentators who have made careers in media with the aim at ending up in one of those positions and have spent their lives working their * off to get to a point where they are within striking distance of such a job... but then Bill Cowher retires and you know... he has to be hired for a national TV gig... and so on and so forth.

3 minutes ago, Nickster said:

How many of these guys were ever NFL analysts?  Now I can answer that for you, the answer is ZERO.

 

Now if they just gave the play by play job to one of these guys, that would be weird.   Summerall was incredible, but as far as I know, none of the other Play by Play guys ever played NFL football. 

Umh... many are NFL analysts... just not on top of the top of national broadcast level. I'm not talking about some blog boys with zero media experience that are just starting their careers. I'm talking about people who have actually gone through the steps and have climbed up the ladder.

[stitches]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I don't think it's hypocrisy personally.  What would Cowher care for for example?  He's a HOF or will be.  He could take his pick each year of a number of HC positions for extremely high pay if he wanted to.  

 

How is he being hypocritical?  It seems quite the opposite of it as far as I'm concerned.  He has nothing to personally gain by having his viewpoint.

 

Fact is to me, in some industries outside, unconventional hires might make good sense.  But in others, dues paying is probably the way to go.  For instance, in my field, I'd like to see educrats jettisoned and bring in some people from other fields to re organize schools.  And I don't see that being good at teaching has anything to do with becoming an administrator.  Most admins I've known over the decades weren't even very effective teachers.

 

But if they hired some dude from amazon to run the school system, I would understand how people that have worked in the profession might be miffed by it. 

 

 

What? It's not about having anything to gain. He's already gained it. He has already benefited the exact same way he's accusing Jeff Saturday of benefiting - by not going through the process and years of training on the job before getting the highest level job in the field.

[Superman]

1 hour ago, stitches said:

It's not irrelevant. That's one of their main arguments and it shows them to be complete hypocrites. How many journalist students spent years studying broadcasting and then decades honing their skills, only to have their dream job snatched up by a fresh off coaching failure/retirement new "analysts".

 

It's absolutely irrelevant. The "analyst" role is almost entirely populated by former players and coaches, not people who studied journalism. This is the case in almost every sport, and almost every network. James Brown worked his way up and paid his dues as a broadcaster, which is why he's the anchor position. Every other person on the CBS panel is a former coach or player. Inside the NBA, same model. NFL Live, same model. And the same is true of in-game broadcast teams -- one play by play guy who is a trained broadcaster, paired with a former player or coach.

 

Quote

NFL coaching is one of the most nepotistic and "incestuous" fields where close to everything is happening through connections and family ties. But all of a sudden the same guys that have benefited from those structures are appalled that Irsay decided to hire his guy... experienced or not, notwithstanding.

 

This is absolutely true. It's also off topic. 

 

And again, my comments are not meant as a judgment of whether Cowher is right or wrong, although I think his perspective is worthy of consideration. My point is very simple: there are obvious people in or closely connected to the NFL who think the Colts hiring Jeff Saturday was not handled properly, and it's unreasonable to be dismissive of negative reports or commentary. Judge the commentary however you want, but to diminish its relevance or validity out of hand is myopic, at best.

 

Quote

Here's Joe Thomas throwing his candidacy in for the Browns' HC job just 2 years ago:

 

LOL, I'd like to see the rest of the interview, but from this short clip it seems pretty obviously tongue in cheek. 

[stitches]

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

It's absolutely irrelevant. The "analyst" role is almost entirely populated by former players and coaches, not people who studied journalism. This is the case in almost every sport, and almost every network. James Brown worked his way up and paid his dues as a broadcaster, which is why he's the anchor position. Every other person on the CBS panel is a former coach or player. Inside the NBA, same model. NFL Live, same model. And the same is true of in-game broadcast teams -- one play by play guy who is a trained broadcaster, paired with a former player or coach.

 

And again, for second time - just because it happens all the time, doesn't mean it's any less relevant.

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

And again, my comments are not meant as a judgment of whether Cowher is right or wrong, although I think his perspective is worthy of consideration. My point is very simple: there are obvious people in or closely connected to the NFL who think the Colts hiring Jeff Saturday was not handled properly, and it's unreasonable to be dismissive of negative reports or commentary. Judge the commentary however you want, but to diminish its relevance or validity out of hand is myopic, at best.

Cowher is right on his criticism of the process and he's right Jeff Saturday might not have been the best candidate because of lack of experience. Cowher is absolutely a hypocrite for doing the whole "this is a disgrace and an affront to coaching" spiel. Coaches have been hired and rehired for decades in this league for the exact same reason Jeff Saturday was hired. Cowher has been hired the same way and for the same reason, too. Both in the NFL and in broadcasting.

 

5 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

LOL, I'd like to see the rest of the interview, but from this short clip it seems pretty obviously tongue in cheek. 

I don't have the rest of the interview.

[Superman]

21 minutes ago, stitches said:

And again, for second time - just because it happens all the time, doesn't mean it's any less relevant.

 

No. What you're not acknowledging is that the "analyst" position was created specifically to give a platform to former players and coaches, because networks saw it as a value to their broadcast. Journalism and broadcasting students are not studying to be "analysts," and when former players and coaches get those jobs straight out of the league, they are not taking opportunities away from people who have been climbing their way up the ladder for years.

 

It's not the same thing, and it's absolutely not relevant.

 

And that's only one element of Cowher's position, by the way. The other element, more specific to the Colts, is that Jeff Saturday wasn't interested in a full time job with this very same team, on this very same staff, at any point in the recent past. Now that it's the big job, he's dropped everything, and the question that was posed was whether the staff and players will readily accept him, or will they view him as an opportunist who cares more about status than about the work. I think that's probably sufficiently answered, and a big part of why we can expect Saturday to be accepted is because of who he is and how he carries himself. But I still think it's a good question.

[stitches]

4 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

No. What you're not acknowledging is that the "analyst" position was created specifically to give a platform to former players and coaches, because networks saw it as a value to their broadcast. Journalism and broadcasting students are not studying to be "analysts," and when former players and coaches get those jobs straight out of the league, they are not taking opportunities away from people who have been climbing their way up the ladder for years.

 

It's not the same thing, and it's absolutely not relevant.

 

And that's only one element of Cowher's position, by the way. The other element, more specific to the Colts, is that Jeff Saturday wasn't interested in a full time job with this very same team, on this very same staff, at any point in the recent past. Now that it's the big job, he's dropped everything, and the question that was posed was whether the staff and players will readily accept him, or will they view him as an opportunist who cares more about status than about the work. I think that's probably sufficiently answered, and a big part of why we can expect Saturday to be accepted is because of who he is and how he carries himself. But I still think it's a good question.

Isn't that the case with anyone? Any new coach that gets dropped in mid-season would have to win the buy in from his position coaches/coordinators and from his players. I guess I just don't see it as such a huge deal, especially when we are talking about an INTERIM HC. If Irsay had given him 5 year contract, then a ton more scrutiny would be warranted. But right now he's just been brought in to keep this team together and get them to the finish line of the season ... and possibly give some insight to Irsay about what's going on in the locker-room and why is/was the team underperforming.

 

For me the relevant question is how his lack of experience will affect his job, not all the peripheral nonsense going on the margins. Of course he didn't want to come and be a position coach for meagre pay, when he had a much better gig elsewhere. I have ZERO objections to him putting a value on his time and not taking jobs that don't meet that value. Of course interim HC is a completely different animal. Just like I would understand why Bill Cowher wouldn't want to go write a weekly column for the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, but would love to be the CBS NFL analyst.

 

That's the thing I'm talking about - the vitriol and midslinging at Saturday as if he's done some despicable thing he needs to repent for by taking that job. Oh wow, he didn't want the OL assistant coach job, but wanted to be HC. Shocker!

 

At the end of the day, I doubt he will be long-term HC for us and this very likely will be an 8 game thing and both him and the Colts will move on after. I didn't like the process of his hiring but I like even less the way he's being treated by people that should know better.

[Superman]

24 minutes ago, stitches said:

Isn't that the case with anyone? Any new coach that gets dropped in mid-season would have to win the buy in from his position coaches/coordinators and from his players.

 

Almost always (I can't think of an exception off the top of my head), an interim HC is someone who was already on the staff. Not someone who repeatedly declined a full time staff position because they weren't ready to make the commitment. So no, there's a different element here, and that's what Cowher was speaking to. 

 

Quote

If Irsay had given him 5 year contract, then a ton more scrutiny would be warranted. But right now he's just been brought in to keep this team together and get them to the finish line of the season ... and possibly give some insight to Irsay about what's going on in the locker-room and why is/was the team underperforming.

 

That's another element. Jeff Saturday would like to use this as a springboard to potential HC candidacy, even if he doesn't get the Colts permanent job. He skipped past all the dog days and whatnot, which almost no one else is ever able to do.

 

And again, I am not repping this perspective. I brought it up because it's evidence that not everyone who dislikes the Saturday hire is just hating on the Colts with no reason. And I mentioned it to counter the dismissive attitude from fans here who didn't like the reports on some of the reaction to the hire. 

 

Quote

I have ZERO objections to him putting a value on his time and not taking jobs that don't meet that value.

 

Understood, and I mostly agree. But we're not talking about your reaction, or mine. We're talking about possible reactions from inside the building. And it's a valid consideration, even if we reach the conclusion that it's not going to be a problem, as long as it was considered.

[Never_Quit]

I'm happy about the result too but we beat a bottom 5 team and everyone is acting like we have long term answers. We dont. 

[gspdx]

15 hours ago, Never_Quit said:

I'm happy about the result too but we beat a bottom 5 team and everyone is acting like we have long term answers. We dont. 

 

LOL - agreed.  What we have is a team that responded to a negative situation and pretty well.  Effort and attitude is what is important right now.  Are you all in or not.  Players and coaches.

 

We'll see what happens next!

 

 

 

[cjwhiskers]

15 hours ago, Never_Quit said:

I'm happy about the result too but we beat a bottom 5 team and everyone is acting like we have long term answers. We dont. 

 

Are plenty of fans happy that we won? Absolutely, who wouldn't be? In my opinion, the Raiders game was never about winning or losing though. Nor is the rest of the season for that matter. It is entirely about effort. The bigger win is that the roster actually showed up and gave great effort, that the team still seemingly cares about the season, that the coaches didn't look incompetent at all and that there were plenty of positives even outside of the final score. 

 

Saturday came in and helped galvanize a fading locker room. That team honestly needed the wakeup call. I agree, long term is unknown but at least this season appears to be watchable again. 

 

 

[Archer]

On 11/10/2022 at 9:00 AM, philba101 said:

 

3. One NFL general manager with ties to several key members of the Colts’ staff said in the immediate aftermath of Reich’s firing Monday — but before Saturday had been named the replacement — that the moves were “all premeditated. The owner is already on to next year. It’s already about next year. He’s tanking for a QB. It was obvious when he benched a $30 million guy for a guy who can’t play. That’s what this is about.” (La Canfora)

What’s obvious is that La Canfora is an *!  Ya got a 37-year old QB getting killed behind a terrible line, and he was playing terribly.  You switch him out for a more mobile QB who played lights out in the PS.  At that point, we needed to find out what we had in him too.  It was a valid thing to try.  Tanking for a QB?  Seriously?  We’ve already probably won too many to get one the first two QBs (I.e. the only ones worth tanking for)…

[CoachLite]

Maybe, there is a glimmer of hope, and the team is having fun winning again?

[aReggie7]

I was surprised by the Saturday hire and it wasn't the move I would have made if I were Irsay but I thought the reaction got to be over the top.

 

I thought this discussion on this topic between Haberman and Middlekauff was really good and worth a listen.  

 

 

 

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, aReggie7 said:

I was surprised by the Saturday hire and it wasn't the move I would have made if I were Irsay but I thought the reaction got to be over the top.

 

I thought this discussion on this topic between Haberman and Middlekauff was really good and worth a listen.  

 

 

 

 

Just watching the first few minutes.... 

Hilarious... Feel the same here. Made the same points about the pedestal syndrome. 

[Myles]

Oh no!   The Colts didn't hire a former head coach on their team.  Gus Bradley deserved it after his stellar 14-48 record as head coach in the NFL.   How could you pass up on that chance?  

[Fluke_33]

6 hours ago, aReggie7 said:

I was surprised by the Saturday hire and it wasn't the move I would have made if I were Irsay but I thought the reaction got to be over the top.

 

I thought this discussion on this topic between Haberman and Middlekauff was really good and worth a listen.  

 

 

 

I haven’t listened to it all but the “when you’ve been …canned twice before 31…” made me laugh early this morning 

[Nickster]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:52 PM, stitches said:

Right out of college? Noone... but there are plenty of journalists and commentators who have made careers in media with the aim at ending up in one of those positions and have spent their lives working their * off to get to a point where they are within striking distance of such a job... but then Bill Cowher retires and you know... he has to be hired for a national TV gig... and so on and so forth.

Umh... many are NFL analysts... just not on top of the top of national broadcast level. I'm not talking about some blog boys with zero media experience that are just starting their careers. I'm talking about people who have actually gone through the steps and have climbed up the ladder.

I mean can you name one non football player that has Cowers job?  What journalist has ever gotten the desk job on TV or the color guy on a broadcast?

 

all those guys are football guys.  They have men and women that report on other things but the guys that do Cowhers job have 0 broadcast experience.

 

have you seen Sean Payton this year?  Not camera friendly not delivering with trained broadcasting competency?

 

I will go out on a limb and say no one ever in the journalism field got Bills job

[Nickster]

On 11/14/2022 at 1:55 PM, stitches said:

What? It's not about having anything to gain. He's already gained it. He has already benefited the exact same way he's accusing Jeff Saturday of benefiting - by not going through the process and years of training on the job before getting the highest level job in the field.

What does he have to gain now?

[Nickster]

On 11/14/2022 at 2:50 PM, Superman said:

 

No. What you're not acknowledging is that the "analyst" position was created specifically to give a platform to former players and coaches, because networks saw it as a value to their broadcast. Journalism and broadcasting students are not studying to be "analysts," and when former players and coaches get those jobs straight out of the league, they are not taking opportunities away from people who have been climbing their way up the ladder for years.

 

It's not the same thing, and it's absolutely not relevant.

 

And that's only one element of Cowher's position, by the way. The other element, more specific to the Colts, is that Jeff Saturday wasn't interested in a full time job with this very same team, on this very same staff, at any point in the recent past. Now that it's the big job, he's dropped everything, and the question that was posed was whether the staff and players will readily accept him, or will they view him as an opportunist who cares more about status than about the work. I think that's probably sufficiently answered, and a big part of why we can expect Saturday to be accepted is because of who he is and how he carries himself. But I still think it's a good question.

This is so obvious it’s painful Supe.  I can’t understand how this isn’t clear.

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

I mean can you name one non football player that has Cowers job?  What journalist has ever gotten the desk job on TV or the color guy on a broadcast?

 

all those guys are football guys.  They have men and women that report on other things but the guys that do Cowhers job have 0 broadcast experience.

 

have you seen Sean Payton this year?  Not camera friendly not delivering with trained broadcasting competency?

 

I will go out on a limb and say no one ever in the journalism field got Bills job

Right next to Bill Cowher on that video clip is James Brown. Like... literally RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. To the right side of him. Jim Rome is another one on The NFL Today show. Jonathan Jones is another one on the NFL Today show. This is 3 guys just on the same show Cowher is weekly. There are tons in similar positions that are not football players. 

[stitches]

2 hours ago, Nickster said:

What does he have to gain now?

Who knows what he has to gain now? I didn't accuse him of having anything to gain now. I accused him of hypocricy and throwing vitriol at someone who didn't deserve it and engaging in hyperbolic nonsense for whatever ends he's pursuing now... I guess making his show more interesting. 

[Nickster]

15 minutes ago, stitches said:

Right next to Bill Cowher on that video clip is James Brown. Like... literally RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. To the right side of him. Jim Rome is another one on The NFL Today show. Jonathan Jones is another one on the NFL Today show. This is 3 guys just on the same show Cowher is weekly. There are tons in similar positions that are not football players. 

James Brown analyzes NO FOOTBALL.  He' s the host.  That is a different position.  It's similar to play by play.  Summerall was the best ever IMO and he was a HOF player IIRC, but as far as I know there are NO other football guys that do play by play.  They are all broadcasting guys.  Studio hosts are as far as I know, all broadcasting guys to.

 

These are different positions.

 

That argument hold no water.  Cowher's color analysis position was NEVER OPEN TO ANY JOURNALISM GUYS.

13 minutes ago, stitches said:

Who knows what he has to gain now? I didn't accuse him of having anything to gain now. I accused him of hypocricy and throwing vitriol at someone who didn't deserve it and engaging in hyperbolic nonsense for whatever ends he's pursuing now... I guess making his show more interesting. 

 

Slobberin'/Spittin' Bill Cowher is always hyperbolic.  That's his MO.  

[Myles]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

 

Slobberin'/Spittin' Bill Cowher is always hyperbolic.  That's his MO.  

It is and he is good at stirring stuff up even when he is so obviously wrong.    I lost respect for the chump.

[Nickster]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

It is and he is good at stirring stuff up even when he is so obviously wrong.    I lost respect for the chump.

I don't care about him.  I don't watch any pre game.