Kevin Thomas starting CB ? / Pagano

[Fx Stryker]

Thomas is a good guy better man than zone corner. I think Pagano can make him a decent corner look what he did with Webb

Yeah, That is another thing. Pagano is a DB specialist.

[MAC]

I'm not exactly an expert in DB play, but I noticed Thomas repeatedly making plays on the ball - as compared to our other corners who seemed to wait patiently for the ball to be caught before coming up and trying to make a tackle. For all I know that means that he was taking gambles, and perhaps those gambles cost him - but aside from Bethea he was the only DB that I noticed breaking up passes and coming close to interceptions. Considering how little experience he has, it's entirely possible that the coaches think he has significant potential. I'm not sure why people are so eager to dismiss a third round draft pick essentially entering his second year. Where was Kelvin Hayden (for example) at this point in his career?

[Warhorse]

Ok ok ok...For starters, Thomas has never played in a man-to-man defense. He has no idea how to play. Now, yes Pagano could teach it to him, but why give the #2 CB spot to a guy who's learning man coverage, when you could draft a guy who has experience playing in it, and has exceeded in it. Thomas didn't even impress me that much at USC, where he played in a (guess what) TAMPA 2 with Monte Kiffin, but with a little more tweaks. Thomas was overrated coming out of college, he got an injury that hurts a lot of people, he looked awful in his first year, in a system that he's used to playing in, and now you guys what him to start because he deserves a chance? He got his chance and should have done pretty well, but he didn't do well. He actually looked awful on the field. He's not a good starter, and I would hate to have him as the starter. I have nothing against him, but he isn't a starter to me. He's a backup, and maybe over time he could learn and get better in man coverage.

I'll give Thomas this, if he can have an impressive training camp and use his skills properly, which means he becomes a press corner, then maybe he deserves a shot in the preseason.Even then, I still want the Colts to go out and draft 2 CBs, including one either of the top 4 rounds.

Well, for starters, I'll give Chuck Pagano the nod for evaluating talent over any fan on this board. He is in the NFL, not just commenting on it. I have faith that he sees something in Thomas that some might not see. I cannot count how many times I have seen players struggle and finally get in the right system or the right coach and they blossom. Whether or not Kevin will do this remains to be seen. However, there are not enough picks to fill the needs we have and it appears that our coach has selected some players that will fill the need for now until next seasons draft. Considering the fact (as Buccolts pointed out) that we only have one TE, that makes it a higher priority pick if there is a legitimate TE available at #34. I would even put a 5T or NT at higher priority than corner with the second pick. Cant wait for the draft.

[21isSuperman]

Thomas had trouble as a cover 2 corner. I think he will be a complete disaster as a man to man corner.

Didn't he come out of USC as a solid man to man corner and we forced him to play in our zone scheme? He seems like a talented guy. As for Rucker, he was a 2nd round talent who fell because of his off the field issues. I think he has tons of potential

[colts1993]

i think we should get a NT before a CB since we play in a divison where all the teams have star running backs but if a guy is there with the potential to be a number 1 corner we should get him

[Jason_]

I think Thomas is a bad option at starter, and as of right now, I would rather have Rucker. He played well last year, he's a big guy, one of the biggest CBs in the NFL, and he can run with a lot of those guys. I like him over Thomas. Now, with that being said, the Colts need a #2 corner, or a future #1 like Jenkins. CB is arguably their biggest need.

Come on now Andy, make up your mind

We can argue all day over what's the bigger need, but I personally think it's TE.

[Jason_]

He never played man in college. He played as a press corner who would drop back deep, that's called a zone defense. He played under Monte Kiffin, who is a zone defense guy.

No, he didn't. Kevin Thomas' redshirt senior season was the 2009 season. Monte Kiffin was the DC for the University of Tennessee in 2009 and joined the USC staff in 2010. Therefore he never coached Kevin Thomas. ;)

[OllyDawes]

So according to Andy, 9 games is 'his chance'.

Holy crap, Luck is gonna be in trouble with you then.

[vinatierifan4]

why does everyone say Thomas has potentioal, curtis painter had potentioal, look where that got him. So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russle, just because someone has a little bit of potentioal doesn't mean they'll work hard enough to use it.

[BrentMc11]

I disagree. I believe he will be a fine option as a starter. He might look like a twig but I believe he can actually play given the chance and not having to play 15 yards off all the time. He and Rucker should be a lot better this year with the new system. I believe we will all be surprised with how they adjust to the new system. CB is still a need, but I'm not for sure it has to be with the 2nd round pick. We might be able to find a good one in the 3rd round.

If/when Pagano brings the heat from every angle in a 4-3....disguising 3-4 it gives every player a new lease on life. We have a lot of 'needs.' I agree that the Coyer "Cover Nobody" was the most embarrassing and most lax defense I have ever seen. 62-7 was the 3rd worst loss in the history of professional football. Pagano will not let that happen ever again.

[MAC]

why does everyone say Thomas has potentioal, curtis painter had potentioal, look where that got him. So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russle, just because someone has a little bit of potentioal doesn't mean they'll work hard enough to use it.

What is your point exactly? Very few players join your team fully formed. Should Peyton have been benched during his first season because the he was throwing a ton of interceptions and the team was losing constantly? Guess what, he had potential. Fortunately he was given the opportunity to develop. What is your suggestion, that a third round draft pick be released after playing 1/2 a season because he didn't play like an all-pro? Frankly my only problem with the situation is that he (and Rucker) weren't allowed to play the entire season, because it was to the teams long term benefit that they see the field as much as possible.

[BrentMc11]

Every corner we have deserves a chance as well as whomever we draft in all positions. This defensive scheme is totally different, and I agree with MAC here. When we were 0-6 or 0-7....that was the time to let the Thomas's and Rucker's prove themselves the rest of the season.

At this point, the Colts were very sure Peyton Manning would not be back to save us.

Mini-camp and training camp is soooooooo crucial this year (every year IMO) so that the new D is installed and the young OL can get reps. and LEARN!! Players need to have every opportunity to reach their 'potential.'

[Jay Kirk]

The good thing about players hes braught in during offseason is they pretty much will understand what hes doing so this should help,especially if they show up for mini camp.I think they can help the ones who dont know the system

[BrentMc11]

The good thing about players hes braught in during offseason is they pretty much will understand what hes doing so this should help,especially if they show up for mini camp.I think they can help the ones who dont know the system

I am big on mentoring. Coaching and technique are important, but a combo of player experience and mentoring the 'rooks'......priceless.

[Jay Kirk]

I really think this team can be better than most think

[Jay Kirk]

I for one am looking forward to the draft,should be very interesting,really dont care what the so called experts say,ive seen them proved wrong time and time again

[Andy]

No, he didn't. Kevin Thomas' redshirt senior season was the 2009 season. Monte Kiffin was the DC for the University of Tennessee in 2009 and joined the USC staff in 2010. Therefore he never coached Kevin Thomas. ;)

You're right, that's my bad, but then I realize that he played under Rocky Seto, who also utilized a zone defense. So technically, I was right in the end. ;)

[CR91]

i really want us to give thomas and rucker a chance before we throw them under the bus. it was a lost year with bad coaching for two rookies trying to figure out their game. give them time.

[Andy]

Come on now Andy, make up your mind

That's why I said arguably, I didn't say that it was the biggest, I believe that if you give the right case, it could be considered the biggest need. I think it's TE, but CB is very close behind and some people think it's the biggest need. In the first post on the last line, I wasn't talking from my perspective, whereas in the 2nd post, I was talking from my opinion.

[Coffeedrinker]

Is it just me or do i remember Rucker getting burnt for td after td??? Rucker is very raw... If my memory serves correctly when healthy Thomas can lay the wood???? I dont recall Thomas getting burnt over the top like Rucker???

I think everyone on the Colts D got burnt at times last year. But I thought Rucker was solid considering it was his rookie season with a bad DC.

I do like Thomas and I will not be surprised at all if he's the 2012 starter and I also will not be surprised if he does very well in a more aggressive D. I don't know all the ins and outs of the D Pagano wants to run but I do know the D that USC ran when KT was there looked very similar in responsibilities. But again that could just be looks, I have no idea what their reads and keys were/are.

Actually, with Powers' injury history I would not be surprised of Rucker and KT are the starting CBs in the later half of the season with Powers as the primary nickel when healthy.

[Coffeedrinker]

why does everyone say Thomas has potentioal, curtis painter had potentioal, look where that got him. So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russle, just because someone has a little bit of potentioal doesn't mean they'll work hard enough to use it.

So because there have been guys in the NFL that did not live up to their potential then it's a bad phrase to use? Get this Manning had potential, so did Eli, and Brees and Walter Payton, and Harrison and Jerry Rice and Joe Montana and Favre and.... every great that has ever played the game, no one comes into the NFL a finished product. KT does have potential, he has shown flashes of excellent CB play and needs to work on his consistency... that is potential. Plus he has shown to have the work ethic and intelligence that are needed to convert his potential into playing ability.

[GoColts8818]

why does everyone say Thomas has potentioal, curtis painter had potentioal, look where that got him. So did Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russle, just because someone has a little bit of potentioal doesn't mean they'll work hard enough to use it.

painter was a sixth round pick drafted to be a back up qb and thomas was drafted in the third round probably with an eye on him to be a second or third corner very reasonable expectations for a third round cornerback pick. If you can't see the difference there and understand guys tend to need more than 9 games to show you what they will be in this league as a cornerback I don't know what to tell ya. Also for the record there have been no stories question either painters or Thomas's work ethic so to question it is a bit unfair. In fact the fact Thomas has already over come a major knee injury seems to suggest he has a very strong work ethic.

[vinatierifan4]

painter was a sixth round pick drafted to be a back up qb and thomas was drafted in the third round probably with an eye on him to be a second or third corner very reasonable expectations for a third round cornerback pick. If you can't see the difference there and understand guys tend to need more than 9 games to show you what they will be in this league as a cornerback I don't know what to tell ya. Also for the record there have been no stories question either painters or Thomas's work ethic so to question it is a bit unfair. In fact the fact Thomas has already over come a major knee injury seems to suggest he has a very strong work ethic.

well obviously he only played a couple of games, i just don't think hes going to be any better than a fourth corner.

[vinatierifan4]

So because there have been guys in the NFL that did not live up to their potential then it's a bad phrase to use? Get this Manning had potential, so did Eli, and Brees and Walter Payton, and Harrison and Jerry Rice and Joe Montana and Favre and.... every great that has ever played the game, no one comes into the NFL a finished product. KT does have potential, he has shown flashes of excellent CB play and needs to work on his consistency... that is potential. Plus he has shown to have the work ethic and intelligence that are needed to convert his potential into playing ability.

well anybody can be good. and he has yet to show me he will be good.

[vinatierifan4]

What is your point exactly? Very few players join your team fully formed. Should Peyton have been benched during his first season because the he was throwing a ton of interceptions and the team was losing constantly? Guess what, he had potential. Fortunately he was given the opportunity to develop. What is your suggestion, that a third round draft pick be released after playing 1/2 a season because he didn't play like an all-pro? Frankly my only problem with the situation is that he (and Rucker) weren't allowed to play the entire season, because it was to the teams long term benefit that they see the field as much as possible.

there is a diffrence between a 1st overall pick and a third round draft pick who missed the whole season due to a training camp injury.

[Coffeedrinker]

well anybody can be good. and he has yet to show me he will be good.

Only because you either have not looked or you don't see when it happens.

[DS3]

In my opinion, I always thought he was overrated. I saw him as a middle rounds pick, and some mock drafts didn't even have him going in the top 5 rounds. Point is, we really stretched for Thomas, and so far it has not really paid off.

Don't get me wrong though, we've reached for a lot of players, and some of them have ended up well. Angerer was a big reach, but worth it. Addai was a reach, and it was worth it (imo), and the list goes on and on.

We did get him a round early But in my opinion he could've been worth it if it wasnt for the injury he couldve been our #3

[dgambill]

The only reason I think CB is a priority is because we have always had huge injury issues in our secondary...year after year. We are constantly going through 3 or 4 starting safties and corners. I'm not saying those we have can't be adequate or be alright but given that they all at one point or another are missing games to me means they need depth. Also...to me it is a philosophy thing. I would actually like to punish teams for taking chances throwing the ball. Sure we will give up big plays more often but I would like to see us get more turnovers. I think Powers is a good #2 CB. I think Thomas and Rucker are solid #3 corners. But heck as it is they will all be on the field quite a bit just because most teams have gone to 3 wide sets. That means if any are injured we have issues and that also means as we are we are asking more of them than "I" personally think they are capable of doing. Asking Powers to cover Andre Johnson or teams #1 wideout is a stretch to me. Put him against a number 2 and I think he will battle that guy all day. If we had a true #1 cb then that lets everyone fit naturally into the scheme and allows us depth to rotate guys in and play through injuries. Right now if one goes down we are weak...if two goes down we are in serious trouble in the secondary. Having that depth and skill would take us from having servicable guys into having a strength. To me..its like we have these great pass rushers but it is no use if the guys covering can't exploit the hurried throws...I think our guys are ok and learning but I would like to have a great secondary...not just an ok one. That is why if the right guy is there at 34 I would take CB...if not TE,DT, or G is fine.

[Jay305]

Cb can be addressed with quality talent in the third and fourth for sure this year.

[BrentMc11]

The only reason I think CB is a priority is because we have always had huge injury issues in our secondary...year after year. We are constantly going through 3 or 4 starting safties and corners. I'm not saying those we have can't be adequate or be alright but given that they all at one point or another are missing games to me means they need depth. Also...to me it is a philosophy thing. I would actually like to punish teams for taking chances throwing the ball. Sure we will give up big plays more often but I would like to see us get more turnovers. I think Powers is a good #2 CB. I think Thomas and Rucker are solid #3 corners. But heck as it is they will all be on the field quite a bit just because most teams have gone to 3 wide sets. That means if any are injured we have issues and that also means as we are we are asking more of them than "I" personally think they are capable of doing. Asking Powers to cover Andre Johnson or teams #1 wideout is a stretch to me. Put him against a number 2 and I think he will battle that guy all day. If we had a true #1 cb then that lets everyone fit naturally into the scheme and allows us depth to rotate guys in and play through injuries. Right now if one goes down we are weak...if two goes down we are in serious trouble in the secondary. Having that depth and skill would take us from having servicable guys into having a strength. To me..its like we have these great pass rushers but it is no use if the guys covering can't exploit the hurried throws...I think our guys are ok and learning but I would like to have a great secondary...not just an ok one. That is why if the right guy is there at 34 I would take CB...if not TE,DT, or G is fine.

You make great points.....please use paragraphs......did you want us to read or argue? That was like you did not take a breath.....good comments...break it up...

[dgambill]

You make great points.....please use paragraphs......did you want us to read or argue? That was like you did not take a breath.....good comments...break it up...

lol. No you don't have to argue if you agree. It was just my opinion and I was supporting it with my reasoning. I am sorry that is how I write on forums. I will try to break it up. It was just the direction I would to see us go.

We already have a dangerous pass rush and if you put pressure on the qb you can get some errorant decisions and we could take advantage of. If you make a team cautious to throw it allows you to press them...get more guys in the box and helps stop the running game. If you have to leave two safties deep well that puts a lot of pressure on our LBs.

I just think you pick some things and get good in those areas and you let the rest of the team feed off it and allow it to help them. Having true cover corners means it gives DL time to pressure the qb and the pressure means the corners cover less it just builds. Then..if the saftey can come up and help the lbs on the run well suddenly you have a pretty stout defense.

I also think that it would help cause more turnovers and give our struggling offense better chances to score. We already have the pass rush...I just would like to see us get dangerous in the secondary. I think with that adequate lbs would be sufficient since they could get more saftey help. Just a defensive philosophy thing. We already have a young secondary with some talent but I just think one true really talented corner would allow everyone to play at higher level because it would allow them to shift into a more natural position.

[BrentMc11]

lol. No you don't have to argue if you agree. It was just my opinion and I was supporting it with my reasoning. I am sorry that is how I write on forums. I will try to break it up. It was just the direction I would to see us go.

We already have a dangerous pass rush and if you put pressure on the qb you can get some errorant decisions and we could take advantage of. If you make a team cautious to throw it allows you to press them...get more guys in the box and helps stop the running game. If you have to leave two safties deep well that puts a lot of pressure on our LBs.

I just think you pick some things and get good in those areas and you let the rest of the team feed off it and allow it to help them. Having true cover corners means it gives DL time to pressure the qb and the pressure means the corners cover less it just builds. Then..if the saftey can come up and help the lbs on the run well suddenly you have a pretty stout defense.

I also think that it would help cause more turnovers and give our struggling offense better chances to score. We already have the pass rush...I just would like to see us get dangerous in the secondary. I think with that adequate lbs would be sufficient since they could get more saftey help. Just a defensive philosophy thing. We already have a young secondary with some talent but I just think one true really talented corner would allow everyone to play at higher level because it would allow them to shift into a more natural position.

lol. No you don't have to argue if you agree. It was just my opinion and I was supporting it with my reasoning. I am sorry that is how I write on forums. I will try to break it up. It was just the direction I would to see us go.

We already have a dangerous pass rush and if you put pressure on the qb you can get some errorant decisions and we could take advantage of. If you make a team cautious to throw it allows you to press them...get more guys in the box and helps stop the running game. If you have to leave two safties deep well that puts a lot of pressure on our LBs.

I just think you pick some things and get good in those areas and you let the rest of the team feed off it and allow it to help them. Having true cover corners means it gives DL time to pressure the qb and the pressure means the corners cover less it just builds. Then..if the saftey can come up and help the lbs on the run well suddenly you have a pretty stout defense.

I also think that it would help cause more turnovers and give our struggling offense better chances to score. We already have the pass rush...I just would like to see us get dangerous in the secondary. I think with that adequate lbs would be sufficient since they could get more saftey help. Just a defensive philosophy thing. We already have a young secondary with some talent but I just think one true really talented corner would allow everyone to play at higher level because it would allow them to shift into a more natural position.

Sorry if I upset you. I liked the lol! You have read what I have said and not disagreed....Great response...I get on a roll sometimes too! Thanks!

[dgambill]

Cb can be addressed with quality talent in the third and fourth for sure this year.

I think there are quality guys in those rounds as well. Possibly even push our young guys and if we don't take one early we definately will take one for depth later. The thing is I think what some prefer is to not just take one as a rotational guy but one as an upgrade. To take a future #1 cb for this team. One that will allow Powers to move over to number 2 and see Rucker and Thomas play on the slot and in dime coverage. I think that is what some people are saying. That we take a guy that can quite possibly be that lock down guy or one we can leave alone and not have to roll coverage. I think what some would like to try to do is possibly get away from the 2 deep safties that we have had to deploy for so long to give assistance to our corners and perhaps have that one deep saftey because we have more trust in those guys and allow us to bring an extra rusher or another guy down into the box to help in the run game.

[chad72]

I do think that against run oriented teams in the division, a physical nickel CB in run support is necessary. So, Rucker might fit that role, ala Marlin Jackson, more. Depends if Pagano feels that way. Kevin Thomas is more slender in his build and might get wiped out playing run support more as nickel CB. Just throwing that out there.

[dgambill]

I do think that against run oriented teams in the division, a physical nickel CB in run support is necessary. So, Rucker might fit that role, ala Marlin Jackson, more. Depends if Pagano feels that way. Kevin Thomas is more slender in his build and might get wiped out playing run support more as nickel CB. Just throwing that out there.

If and a big if but if you bring in a high quality cb to partner with Powers that would allow you to bring a saftey down into the box instead of having two deep safties on your base defense and I think Rucker and Thomas could trade off depending on the matchup and if we do play nickle. My big beef on our corners is that they are injured a lot. Thomas has been brittle out of USC and Johnson couldn't stay on the field too. I think both Rucker and Thomas have the size for bigger wrs but only Rucker really has the size and aggressiveness to make a difference in the run game.

If we are still worried about corners in run support then well that is not a good worry to be having (meaning our front 7 is not getting it done). I think an upgrade in the secondary would allow our core guys to slide over into a much natural position for them. I would like Rucker on the slot and Thomas spelling Powers/NEWCB on the outside. That would give us a nice rotation and a solid dime defense. With the focus on passing becoming so strong to think we can get by with those guys we have now I think is very optimistic. Perhaps we give it a year and just bring in another late round cb but eventually...we have to get another early round cb to put any fear in throwing the ball against our defense.

[GrizzColt]

Well, I have been interested in our new strength and conditioning coach, Marandino. He was into powerlifting and that led me to some articles about the Florida Gators new strength guy. He is switching to an Olympic powerlifting program designed to develop more "explosive force" from the players. Marandino seems to follow that line of reasoning as well, but adds that he tries not to go too fast because if someone overdoes it and gets an injury, his recoup time is much longer than if he had gone at a slower steadier pace. All that to say this, maybe our corners and safeties will be more durable under him.

[GrizzColt]

Powerlifters (*, clean and jerk) have really high vertical leaps and more explosive power than any other athlete. I know there are differing opinions, but I am a believer. Though he coached the EAgles last year, they didn't have an offseason so he can't be judged by that.

[dgambill]

Well, I have been interested in our new strength and conditioning coach, Marandino. He was into powerlifting and that led me to some articles about the Florida Gators new strength guy. He is switching to an Olympic powerlifting program designed to develop more "explosive force" from the players. Marandino seems to follow that line of reasoning as well, but adds that he tries not to go too fast because if someone overdoes it and gets an injury, his recoup time is much longer than if he had gone at a slower steadier pace. All that to say this, maybe our corners and safeties will be more durable under him.

One can only hope! I think the real reason is that they have had to make too many tackles on running backs at the second level and tackles in general. If you defend a pass you don't have to tackle the guy and take less hits on their smaller frames. Also if your front 7 make more plays that doesn't leave backs running on the second level right at these guys. Rucker may be built to make those plays but 5"9 cbs arent'.

[vinatierifan4]

Only because you either have not looked or you don't see when it happens.

well let me put it this way.. he's had two years so far to show his talents, he couldn't get on the field his first year. so he rehabbed and watched film (probably). second year he only had a couple good plays, really inconsistant, curtis painter is the same way. great players arent inconsistant, with all due respect i think you guys are in love with this guy for really no reason at all.

[coltnorth]

Cb can be addressed with quality talent in the third and fourth for sure this year.

Not as likely to get a true #1 corner in the fourth. Yes the draft is deep but not for #1 guys. Maybe find a great pick left over in the third but with the demand for corners now, it is not assured. There will probably be close to ten CB\s going in the first two rounds this year. Maybe Robinson or Boykin could last until then but I wouldn't count on it. I also wouldn't count on them becoming #1 corners. This year I would say the best propects to be shut down corners would be Claiborne, Jenkins, Kirkpatrick and maybe Gilmour.