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BR Darius Leonard Contract Projection


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On 4/18/2021 at 10:31 PM, Moosejawcolt said:

I don't mind paying players. Rams have invested tons in Donald and Ramsey on their D. I have no problem with that. Buckner has big contract. I have no problem with that


100% get what you saying in respects to Nelson and Leonard. They do not play Premium positions and are going to command huge contracts. Contracts that no doubt they will have earned based off their play.
 

However, this could have a huge impact at other Premium positions moving forward. 
 

That’s on Ballard to figure out and as long as the Colts are successful, it’s all good.

 

I agree with what your trying to articulate and I “think” it’s okay to have an opinion here, unless your think Ballard is not God. lmao

 

Go Colts! 

 

 

 

 

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I really do not understand the idea of not paying Darius Leonard or Nelson because they don't play "premium positions". There are only so many elite talents at each position on the football field. I think most people would look at the Colts and say we have 3 or 4 elite talents (Big Q, Leonard, Bucker, and possibly Taylor). Would it be nice if we could fill each position on the football with an elite talent? Sure it would. Is it possible? NO. Elite talent covers for the deficiencies at other positions. Our offensive line was average at best before the addition of Big Q. Now the Colts OLine is looked at as one the top units in the NFL. Our defense isn't elite yet but it is much better than it would be without Leonard and Buckner. When you have proven elite talent you keep it because it makes everyone on the field better. I would love it if we could have all-pros at every position on the field but it isn't possible. When you do have all-pros you pay them.

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2 hours ago, MPStack said:


100% get what you saying in respects to Nelson and Leonard. They do not play Premium positions and are going to command huge contracts. Contracts that no doubt they will have earned based off their play.
 

However, this could have a huge impact at other Premium positions moving forward. 
 

That’s on Ballard to figure out and as long as the Colts are successful, it’s all good.

 

I agree with what your trying to articulate and I “think” it’s okay to have an opinion here, unless your think Ballard is not God. lmao

 

Go Colts! 

 

 

 

 

 

Yep. Having huge, market-setting contracts at positions like LG and WILL is all good if you can find cheap top tier talent at premium positions in the draft. But that's easier said than done. For example, to address 3-Tech...Colts still had to surrender a mid-1st round pick AND still give out a huge contract.

 

But like you said...that will be up to Ballard to figure out. 

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48 minutes ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I really do not understand the idea of not paying Darius Leonard or Nelson because they don't play "premium positions". There are only so many elite talents at each position on the football field. I think most people would look at the Colts and say we have 3 or 4 elite talents (Big Q, Leonard, Bucker, and possibly Taylor). Would it be nice if we could fill each position on the football with an elite talent? Sure it would. Is it possible? NO. Elite talent covers for the deficiencies at other positions. Our offensive line was average at best before the addition of Big Q. Now the Colts OLine is looked at as one the top units in the NFL. Our defense isn't elite yet but it is much better than it would be without Leonard and Buckner. When you have proven elite talent you keep it because it makes everyone on the field better. I would love it if we could have all-pros at every position on the field but it isn't possible. When you do have all-pros you pay them.

 

I don't want to speak for other people...but I will take a stab at it from a devil's advocate POV.

 

The way I see it...it's not necessarily the idea of paying Q or Leonard...it's more the idea of paying a premium (meaning truly market-setting massive contracts) for players that don't actually play a premium position. 

 

Most people (outside of the truly ardent positional value people) would have no issue with having the highest-paid player at G if he's the best G in the NFL (which Q pretty much is). Right now the highest long-term AAV at G is Thuney with a $16M AAV. So I don't think anybody would quibble with giving Q $17-18M.

 

But many people (including Q's agent I am sure) are thinking Q should get top LT money...which is $22-23M+ AVV. So I can definitely see where the disconnect starts to occur. 

 

You can do the same exercise with Leonard...except use highest-paid WILL and then highest-paid MIKE (if not higher).

 

There's definitely a balance to carrying large contracts on the cap. You can only have so many of them. And when you max out...you can be limited in how you can fill certain positions of need (including premium positions). So now, instead of trading for a DeFo or signing a top tier CB in FA...you have to figure out how to fill those premium positions with cheaper FAs or via the draft.

 

Ballard has been able to short-term fill those positions with cheaper FA moves, but not the draft. And traditionally, it is just easier to fill less premium positions through those means. 

 

 

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2 hours ago, Mel Kiper's Hair said:

I really do not understand the idea of not paying Darius Leonard or Nelson because they don't play "premium positions". There are only so many elite talents at each position on the football field. I think most people would look at the Colts and say we have 3 or 4 elite talents (Big Q, Leonard, Bucker, and possibly Taylor). Would it be nice if we could fill each position on the football with an elite talent? Sure it would. Is it possible? NO. Elite talent covers for the deficiencies at other positions. Our offensive line was average at best before the addition of Big Q. Now the Colts OLine is looked at as one the top units in the NFL. Our defense isn't elite yet but it is much better than it would be without Leonard and Buckner. When you have proven elite talent you keep it because it makes everyone on the field better. I would love it if we could have all-pros at every position on the field but it isn't possible. When you do have all-pros you pay them.

  I can't speak for @MPStackbut I believe he is playing "Devil's Advocate" here.  A WLB and LG are clearly not "premium positions", as QB, LT, WR, DE, CB, and even MLB(though not in this defense) would fit that bill.  This is why the thought of kicking "Q" out to LT is being discussed, he is going to get paid regardless.  I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I just understand his point. 

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1 hour ago, WentzinRome said:

  I can't speak for @MPStackbut I believe he is playing "Devil's Advocate" here.  A WLB and LG are clearly not "premium positions", as QB, LT, WR, DE, CB, and even MLB(though not in this defense) would fit that bill.  This is why the thought of kicking "Q" out to LT is being discussed, he is going to get paid regardless.  I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I just understand his point. 

@Thebrashandtheboldwhat is so funny?  Care to elaborate?

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1 hour ago, WentzinRome said:

  I can't speak for @MPStackbut I believe he is playing "Devil's Advocate" here.  A WLB and LG are clearly not "premium positions", as QB, LT, WR, DE, CB, and even MLB(though not in this defense) would fit that bill.  This is why the thought of kicking "Q" out to LT is being discussed, he is going to get paid regardless.  I am not agreeing or disagreeing, I just understand his point. 


Lol I’m not playing ’DA”, and I certainly don’t think my comments are off, or necessarily right or wrong.  Paying two non premium positions can have an adverse effect, good or bad. That’s all I’m saying. Like I said, Ballard will figure it out. 
 

Also, I think I clearly stated in my previous post they deserve to get paid, never did I state they shouldn’t. I certainly don’t expect everyone to agree with my comments or opinions.  Love the diverse opinions on the Forum, and frankly, I think “most” of time, I facilitate good discussion.  I think I’m kinda fair and balanced, and that’s what makes me different than many here, no pun intended.

 

Cheers

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20 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

OK....    I thought what I was saying was pretty obvious, but perhaps not,  so I'll try again....

 

If Chris Ballard wants to blow up and destroy everything he's spent the last 4 years building, I can't think of anything that would do it better than what you suggest.

 

I'm NOT saying CB should give Q and Darius blank contracts and say "fill in with the numbers you want"....   but CB will re-sign them and they will be big and generous contracts done without a lot of public fighting (unless someone gets WAY out of line with what they're asking.   But I'm not expecting that.)

 

Ballard has built a franchise built on culture.   We talk about here.   The team talks about it non-stop.    It's buzzing all over the city of Indianapolis.   It's even now buzzing around the NFL.    To suddenly play hardball with your best players, or worse,  trade them because they don't play the right position,  would literally destroy what he's built.   Blow-up the locker room.  Undercut  the relationships Frank Reich has with his players.   The rest of the team would see how we treated Q and Darius and think....   "why should I play hard for this franchise?   F*** them!   I'll ask to be traded the first chance I get."   In case you haven't noticed,  players demanding to be traded has caught on in the NFL.   It's not just for basketball or baseball anymore.

 

Ballard would lose all credibility with everyone.   He'd have wasted his 4 years here.   Reich would be screwed.   The front office would be furious.   Irsay would likely want to fire him.   It would destroy this franchise.

 

Final thought....    since you love to throw around what Belichick does....    deal with this...   when the Patriots were winning Super Bowls and making deep playoff runs year after year...     do you know who some of the top players were, besides Brady?     Logan Mankins,  offensive guard.   Rob Gronkowski,  Tight End.    Vince Wilfork,  Nose Tackle.  Donte Hightower, Inside linebacker.    Four key players.    All paid very well.    All Belichick favorites.    None, with the possible exception of Gronk played a sexy, glamour position that you obsess about.    

 

I expect to agree with NONE of this.    But as someone who covered the NFL for 30 years as a member of the media,  and has followed football as close as I could for 25 more years (55 in all)  this is my judgement what would happen if Ballard would do what you suggest.     Sorry. 

 

Good luck.....

 

Hmmm. So let's say that Leonard wants 20 million. Ballard picks up the phone and calls the Bills. He trades Leonard for their corner White. Does that destroy the team? I think not. Put a value on the position and the player.  This is a business. The players and the team knows it. By the way. I think trading Leonard for a man corner makes this team better. Move Okereke to WSL and Speed or draft pick at MIKE. U have White as CB1 and Roades as #2. Do u think my scenario makes the Colts better or worse and why??

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39 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Hmmm. So let's say that Leonard wants 20 million. Ballard picks up the phone and calls the Bills. He trades Leonard for their corner White. Does that destroy the team? I think not. Put a value on the position and the player.  This is a business. The players and the team knows it. By the way. I think trading Leonard for a man corner makes this team better. Move Okereke to WSL and Speed or draft pick at MIKE. U have White as CB1 and Roades as #2. Do u think my scenario makes the Colts better or worse and why??

If you look at my post, I literally wrote the sentence “unless someone asks for WAY too much”...

 

So, if we were at an impasse, THEN Ballard would have the political cover to make a deal. 
 

But, that would have to be the circumstance.  That the player is holding out and asking for way too much for something like this to happen. 
 

But, you’ve moved the goal line.   Your previous arguments were to trade Q and Darius because they played the wrong positions to financially build around.   Your other argument was to trade them because they wanted market value and it was your view that top market value was too much.

 

NOW, your view is if they ask for an unreasonable over-the-market number.   Ok, if that scenario were to happen, I think Ballard would be willing to make a deal.

 

That said, the Colts have one of the top financial teams in the NFL.   We make very good, very competitive offers.   We convince players to take either no signing bonus, or a small signing bonus.   This past season Ballard was named by agents as the best and most fair GM to deal with.   He is admired and respected.   I do not see the scenario you’ve created happening.

 

Could it?  Sure, but highly, highly unlikely.  A long shot at best.

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35 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

If you look at my post, I literally wrote the sentence “unless someone asks for WAY too much”...

 

So, if we were at an impasse, THEN Ballard would have the political cover to make a deal. 
 

But, that would have to be the circumstance.  That the player is holding out and asking for way too much for something like this to happen. 
 

But, you’ve moved the goal line.   Your previous arguments were to trade Q and Darius because they played the wrong positions to financially build around.   Your other argument was to trade them because they wanted market value and it was your view that top market value was too much.

 

NOW, your view is if they ask for an unreasonable over-the-market number.   Ok, if that scenario were to happen, I think Ballard would be willing to make a deal.

 

That said, the Colts have one of the top financial teams in the NFL.   We make very good, very competitive offers.   We convince players to take either no signing bonus, or a small signing bonus.   This past season Ballard was named by agents as the best and most fair GM to deal with.   He is admired and respected.   I do not see the scenario you’ve created happening.

 

Could it?  Sure, but highly, highly unlikely.  A long shot at best.

I would not go as far as unreasonable.  I think thier positions do not have nearly as much values as other. Would I pay Leonard or Q 18 million? No!! What r u going to pay Smith? Buckner makes 21 million. All of your top end  players r playing in the middle of your D and O.  No peripheral skill players at all. That's concerning to me. Let's make a bold move and get a top  end corner or hell even wide out. 

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33 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

I would not go as far as unreasonable.  I think thier positions do not have nearly as much values as other. Would I pay Leonard or Q 18 million? No!! What r u going to pay Smith? Buckner makes 21 million. All of your top end  players r playing in the middle of your D and O.  No peripheral skill players at all. That's concerning to me. Let's make a bold move and get a top  end corner or hell even wide out. 

I’m going to pay Smith less.   He’s a Right Tackle.   I think he’s looking at roughly 4/52, 13m per.

 

We have perimeter players on both sides.  They’re young and on rookie contracts.   We will add more of them.   Maybe this draft and next...

 

We don’t have answers now.   But we will soon enough. 

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10 hours ago, Thebrashandthebold said:

No. I just find people that want to not pay big Q or Leonard very humorous. 

It's not about wanting to pay them. Just because they r all pros doesn't mean u open up the cheque book.They play positions that r lesser in value when compared to say LT, DE, CB, DT,WR. Guard and WSL to me r probably the 2 least valued positions

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m going to pay Smith less.   He’s a Right Tackle.   I think he’s looking at roughly 4/52, 13m per.

 

We have perimeter players on both sides.  They’re young and on rookie contracts.   We will add more of them.   Maybe this draft and next...

 

We don’t have answers now.   But we will soon enough. 

Smith 13 million? He is rated as one of the best young RT's. U think he is going to watch Nelson get say 20 million when he plays a more important position? Look at the salaries for RT's. This Oline is bout to get very expensive. I would say to expensive.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I’m going to pay Smith less.   He’s a Right Tackle.   I think he’s looking at roughly 4/52, 13m per.

 

We have perimeter players on both sides.  They’re young and on rookie contracts.   We will add more of them.   Maybe this draft and next...

 

We don’t have answers now.   But we will soon enough. 

PS. Yes our perimeter players r young. However, as of yet I do not see one who I think is legit. I am speaking of WR, CB and DE. 

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48 minutes ago, 07dleigh said:

Are we really debating whether Maniac deserves to be the top paid LB or not? Lol. He's not borderline top 3 like I saw someone say, he's the best linebacker in football. C'mon now...

U r missing my point. Discussion is not about how he is rated.  My concern is how much u pay for his position

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1 hour ago, 07dleigh said:

Are we really debating whether Maniac deserves to be the top paid LB or not? Lol. He's not borderline top 3 like I saw someone say, he's the best linebacker in football. C'mon now...

 

I don't think we were debating that...but we can. I would put Leonard in the top 3...but definitely not the undisputed best.

 

Wagner is still in the NFL. And guys like Roquan Smith, Fred Warner and Devin White have emerged as legit competition...as all 3 were better last season (with Warner being the best in the NFL I think). And all of them are ILB/MLBs. 

 

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Leonard will be the best LB going forward. Not like with Q and the G position.

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52 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

I don't think we were debating that...but we can. I would put Leonard in the top 3...but definitely not the undisputed best.

 

Wagner is still in the NFL. And guys like Roquan Smith, Fred Warner and Devin White have emerged as legit competition...as all 3 were better last season (with Warner being the best in the NFL I think). And all of them are ILB/MLBs. 

 

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Leonard will be the best LB going forward. Not like with Q and the G position.

I also think the important thing to remember is that linebackers in this system can b found in later rounds. They r basically lighter and safeties playing linebacker. Can we replace Leonard? Probably not. However, I would b willing to draft a 2nd or 3rd round linebacker who maybe functional rather than pay a WSL crazy money. 

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Moosejaw, you are too caught up in your positional rankings. Some players transcend the normal thinking, and certainly, Q is one of those players. He has elevated the entire O-line with his play, and he allows the Colts to have a good vs great LT next to him. He has value far beyond his being a LG, and I would venture to say he would be paid top dollar by every team in the League. If I'm right, and I think I am, then your argument re: Q fails. 

As for Leonard, although you have a point about him being less than all pro caliber in his pass coverage, you also have to agree that he is the spiritual leader of the D, and brings many other intangibles to his LB play that make him worth a big salary. Should he be the highest paid LB in the league? No. Should he get top 5 $? I'm ok with that. 

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5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Smith 13 million? He is rated as one of the best young RT's. U think he is going to watch Nelson get say 20 million when he plays a more important position? Look at the salaries for RT's. This Oline is bout to get very expensive. I would say to expensive.

 

Do I think Smith is going to ask for Quinton Nelson money?    No.   I don't.    And I don't think it will be close,  but I've been wrong before.  

 

For what it's worth,  Ballard has said it this off-season,  and I think he has said this every off-season.   They monitor their salary structure every day.    And not just for the current year.     It's projected for that year, and the next,  and the next after that.   So, for a 3-year window,  we have a good rough idea where our money is going to be.

 

Frankly,  Kelly has 3 more years on his 4/50.   After that, he'll either be re-signed for a 1 or 2 year deal, or will be allowed to leave.    And Pinter, or someone else will take over.     It's not like you or me or anyone else here have thought of things that Chris Ballard and his team have not.   CB doesn't smack himself in the forehead like a V-8 moment!    They are so far ahead of us it's not even funny.    No one here has thought of anything that they haven't already thought of a long time ago.

 

5 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

PS. Yes our perimeter players r young. However, as of yet I do not see one who I think is legit. I am speaking of WR, CB and DE. 

 

That's you speaking.    And there are some here who agree with you.

 

I'm just not one of them.

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7 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

It's not about wanting to pay them. Just because they r all pros doesn't mean u open up the cheque book.They play positions that r lesser in value when compared to say LT, DE, CB, DT,WR. Guard and WSL to me r probably the 2 least valued positions

They will get their market value. That is just a lot higher than you believe that it is.

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13 hours ago, 07dleigh said:

Are we really debating whether Maniac deserves to be the top paid LB or not? Lol. He's not borderline top 3 like I saw someone say, he's the best linebacker in football. C'mon now...

U want to see how valuable he really is!? Let Ballard dangle him out there. I  think u will be very surprised what teams are prepared to offer for him. He is an undersized linebacker who is not the best in coverage and built to run this specific scheme.  His grade has gone down and he will want a big contract. Linebackers from this D can be found in later rounds.

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5 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U want to see how valuable he really is!? Let Ballard dangle him out there. I  think u will be very surprised what teams are prepared to offer for him. He is an undersized linebacker who is not the best in coverage and built to run this specific scheme.  His grade has gone down and he will want a big contract. Linebackers from this D can be found in later rounds.


The next time you wonder why you get bashed, you might look back at posts like.   That’s some astonishing hyperbole.  

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28 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:


The next time you wonder why you get bashed, you might look back at posts like.   That’s some astonishing hyperbole.  

U seem to view me as nonsensical, however u can't stop commenting on my posts. If I am so lacking in knowledge then just pass me by...lol. 

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1 hour ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U seem to view me as nonsensical, however u can't stop commenting on my posts. If I am so lacking in knowledge then just pass me by...lol. 

I try to pick my spots with you.   I actually defended you recently when you posted about Leonard’s weight.    You were right. 
 

But what attracts me to come and respond is this...    you’re making the same arguments you made 6 months ago...   12 months ago.   You might use different words, but basically, you’re saying the same thing over and over again.   And it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you’re not changing your mind — period.   Hey, that’s your right.

 

But if you’re going to post the same graffiti here, the same Internet wallpaper,  then I reserve the right to comment when your get especially noteworthy.    And from time to time you post something that just demands a response. 

 

 

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@Moosejawcolt Ok, let me put it to you this way. Guys like Nelson and Leonard are all-pro type players. Smith is borderline based on his play, even if the NFL doesn't recognize him as so. The fact is, you don't let guys like that go. When you do, you turn into teams like the Jets, Jaguars, Bears and Texans. Sometimes, you just get all-pros at positions that aren't the most important. That doesn't mean you let them go. Yes, we could trade them before they sign a new deal for a 1st round pick (aka Deforest Buckner), but I'd rather be the one trading a 1st FOR an elite, young player and finding those opportunities (Buckner, Wentz etc....). 

 

The odds of trading Leonard for another elite player is low, and it may not only not work out for several reasons, but it may disrupt the chemistry on the team. Plus, there's a salary cap. We can't just get elite players either. We have to pick and choose between them. That means working the draft and FA to stay within those boundaries and bring in cheap, young talent every year as well as keep our own. The best-case scenario would probably be to have an All-Pro LT, CB, EDGE, and QB and build around them. At least we have all pros though. That's more than most teams can say, and we just improved the QB position. 

 

In any case, it's a loaded AFC, and the best we can really do is what Ballard has already done minus adding an EDGE rusher in FA. We got our QB, we have a solid core to build around, kept our own in FA, signed some depth, and are going for it. The guys WE drafted and traded for are Leonard, Nelson, Buckner, Smith, Kelly and Taylor. Those are probably the 6 guys that will carry us besides Wentz. Every team has a unique situation, and that's ours, for better or worse. Worse thing we can do is rebuild or try to change that all up now. We have a draft coming up, and even though I'm a BPA type guy, we can get our LT and EDGE, and be comparable to last year with a new QB in Wentz for a decade.

 

If Wentz doesn't work out, and we miss the playoffs the next 2-3 years, I'll panic. Just think of a team like the Bears though, and imagine how we could be in their situation. They are without a QB, they had to release Kyle Fuller, a lot of their team is old and they are against the salary cap this year and they are picking 20th in the draft this year.

 

We are lucky in comparision to them and probably 25 other teams.

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20 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

U r missing my point. Discussion is not about how he is rated.  My concern is how much u pay for his position

 

17 hours ago, shasta519 said:

 

I don't think we were debating that...but we can. I would put Leonard in the top 3...but definitely not the undisputed best.

 

Wagner is still in the NFL. And guys like Roquan Smith, Fred Warner and Devin White have emerged as legit competition...as all 3 were better last season (with Warner being the best in the NFL I think). And all of them are ILB/MLBs. 

 

I don't think it's a foregone conclusion that Leonard will be the best LB going forward. Not like with Q and the G position.

 

Fair and fair. This was more aimed at those making it seem as though he's clearly regressing. He has that rare playmaking gene, moreso than any of his competition at the top of the position imo.

 

Money-wise though, I'll admit that I don't even know what the top LB is getting paid rn lol. I just assumed that this would be the "next up", market set type deal, which I think he easily deserves. We're notoriously smart with money, but I mean... we gotta pay SOMEBODY, right? He's saved/iced so many games for us. I don't think we can just easily draft a guy to do what he does. How much more is 5/95 than what the market is rn? I should've started there.

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7 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

I try to pick my spots with you.   I actually defended you recently when you posted about Leonard’s weight.    You were right. 
 

But what attracts me to come and respond is this...    you’re making the same arguments you made 6 months ago...   12 months ago.   You might use different words, but basically, you’re saying the same thing over and over again.   And it doesn’t matter what anyone says, you’re not changing your mind — period.   Hey, that’s your right.

 

But if you’re going to post the same graffiti here, the same Internet wallpaper,  then I reserve the right to comment when your get especially noteworthy.    And from time to time you post something that just demands a response. 

 

 

That's fair

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On 4/21/2021 at 11:01 PM, NewColtsFan said:


The next time you wonder why you get bashed, you might look back at posts like.   That’s some astonishing hyperbole.  

Do you know what hyperbole is? It doesn’t appear so from the quote you copied.

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On 4/22/2021 at 3:19 AM, Jared Cisneros said:

 

 

The odds of trading Leonard for another elite player is low, and it may not only not work out for several reasons, but it may disrupt the chemistry on the team. Plus, there's a salary cap. We can't just get elite players either. We have to pick and choose between them. That means working the draft and FA to stay within those boundaries and bring in cheap, young talent every year as well as keep our own. The best-case scenario would probably be to have an All-Pro LT, CB, EDGE, and QB and build around them. At least we have all pros though. That's more than most teams can say, and we just improved the QB position. 

 

 

 

i think part of what we will be paying Leonard and Nelson for is their leadership on the team.   Both have great character and are respected by the players on this team.  They both make other players play harder and better.   That just cannot be replaced easily.  

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4 hours ago, Nickster said:

Do you know what hyperbole is? It doesn’t appear so from the quote you copied.

When the poster wrote thst linebackers for this defense can be found in later rounds...   I felt comfortable calling it hyperbole.   
 

You’re free to disagree.

 

Either way, it’s flat out wrong. 

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On 4/23/2021 at 11:38 AM, NewColtsFan said:

When the poster wrote thst linebackers for this defense can be found in later rounds...   I felt comfortable calling it hyperbole.   
 

You’re free to disagree.

 

Either way, it’s flat out wrong. 

 

 You can absolutely find linebackers for this defense in later rounds of the draft.....if you're OK with them being the caliber of Gilbert Gardner rather than Darius Leonard and you're OK with the defense being infinitely worse lol

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43 minutes ago, J@son said:

 

 You can absolutely find linebackers for this defense in later rounds of the draft.....if you're OK with them being the caliber of Gilbert Gardner rather than Darius Leonard and you're OK with the defense being infinitely worse lol

 

Thanks....    I appreciate this!    :spit:      :thmup:

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On 4/23/2021 at 11:38 AM, NewColtsFan said:

When the poster wrote thst linebackers for this defense can be found in later rounds...   I felt comfortable calling it hyperbole.   
 

You’re free to disagree.

 

Either way, it’s flat out wrong. 

A.  He’s undersized.  Not hyperbole.

B.  Average in coverage,  not hyperbole.

C.  Wills are often found in later rounds.  Not hyperbole.

 

I think the point moose was mAking is that the difference made by an all pro lb compared to an average lb is much less than the difference made my average and all pro of other positions.  
 

I suppose this can be debated, but not very effectively IMO.

 

I agree with Moose that DL is not worth the kind of money being discussed,  he’s extremely overrated in this board IMO.  He’s not good in coverage.

 

I like the dude he’s good and he’s fun to watch but he’s not as good as most posters here think.I think Ballard agrees with Moose and I.  We will all find out before too long.

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1 minute ago, Nickster said:

A.  He’s undersized.  Not hyperbole.

B.  Average in coverage,  not hyperbole.

C.  Wills are often found in later rounds.  Not hyperbole.

 

I think the point moose was mAking is that the difference made by an all pro lb compared to an average lb is much less than the difference made my average and all pro of other positions.  
 

I suppose this can be debated, but not very effectively IMO.

 

I agree with Moose that DL is not worth the kind of money he’s making,  he’s extremely overrated in this board IMO.  He’s not good in coverage.

 

I like the dude he’s good and he’s fun to watch but he’s not as good as most posters here think.

He is making second round money on a rookie contract.    I think he is over playing that

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1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

He is making second round money on a rookie contract.    I think he is over playing that

I edited it.  That’s not what I meant.  He’s worth way more than 2nd round money.  I’m talking about the 5/95 money being discussed.

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11 minutes ago, Nickster said:

A.  He’s undersized.  Not hyperbole.

B.  Average in coverage,  not hyperbole.

C.  Wills are often found in later rounds.  Not hyperbole.

 

I think the point moose was mAking is that the difference made by an all pro lb compared to an average lb is much less than the difference made my average and all pro of other positions.  
 

I suppose this can be debated, but not very effectively IMO.

 

I agree with Moose that DL is not worth the kind of money being discussed,  he’s extremely overrated in this board IMO.  He’s not good in coverage.

 

I like the dude he’s good and he’s fun to watch but he’s not as good as most posters here think.I think Ballard agrees with Moose and I.  We will all find out before too long.

 

 

I'm not saying 4-3 WILLS can't be found in later rounds....   but for the 4-3 defense that the Colts run -- which is different than what other teams run,  they can't.    If they could be found in later rounds,  Ballard would have.   For what Ballard and Fluss want to do,  Leonard was the guy.    They were not going to find what they were looking for later.    You want to disagree?   Take it up with them.

 

That's not hyperbole.

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