BR Darius Leonard Contract Projection

[jvan1973]

49 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I edited it.  That’s not what I meant.  He’s worth way more than 2nd round money.  I’m talking about the 5/95 money being discussed.

He ain't making that.   Who knows what CB does when the time comes

[Moosejawcolt]

3 hours ago, J@son said:

 

 You can absolutely find linebackers for this defense in later rounds of the draft.....if you're OK with them being the caliber of Gilbert Gardner rather than Darius Leonard and you're OK with the defense being infinitely worse lol

Gary Brackett...

[NewColtsFan]

17 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Gary Brackett...

 

For some reason, you refuse to let this go....

 

You seem to think there's one 4-3 defense and that every team that's playing it is playing the exact same defense.   They're not.   

 

When Ballard was hired, he said the key to his 4-3 defense was the 3-tech.   That spot was the engine that made it go.  It's not that way for every 4-3 team.    For some,  it's the RDE that drives it.    Ballard also said the 2nd key spot was the WILL.   It was the most important linebacker spot,  and the 2nd most important spot on the defense.    That roughly translates into....   not every WILL will fit his defense.  

[NewColtsFan]

 

From time to time, I often wonder if those who work on Colts.com watch what is posted here.    And the latest example of that came yesterday.    I know that's a LONG time ago for some here.

 

Because yesterday, on the front of this website,  was this story about....    Darius Leonard.

 

And for the "Darius Leonard is overrated" crowd,  you have to deal with this....

 

https://www.colts.com/news/darius-leonard-lavonte-david-brian-urlacher-ray-lewis-fun-fact-friday

[Moosejawcolt]

10 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

For some reason, you refuse to let this go....

 

You seem to think there's one 4-3 defense and that every team that's playing it is playing the exact same defense.   They're not.   

 

When Ballard was hired, he said the key to his 4-3 defense was the 3-tech.   That spot was the engine that made it go.  It's not that way for every 4-3 team.    For some,  it's the RDE that drives it.    Ballard also said the 2nd key spot was the WILL.   It was the most important linebacker spot,  and the 2nd most important spot on the defense.    That roughly translates into....   not every WILL will fit his defense.  

Wooton...slow down. 

[ColtStrong2013]

29 minutes ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

From time to time, I often wonder if those who work on Colts.com watch what is posted here.    And the latest example of that came yesterday.    I know that's a LONG time ago for some here.

 

Because yesterday, on the front of this website,  was this story about....    Darius Leonard.

 

And for the "Darius Leonard is overrated" crowd,  you have to deal with this....

 

https://www.colts.com/news/darius-leonard-lavonte-david-brian-urlacher-ray-lewis-fun-fact-friday

The numbers don’t lie... 

 

A few all pro’s to back the stat sheet that he fills is nice... He has a hall of fame start to his career. Lock him down and continue supporting him so we can have the privilege of watching the rest of his career with the shoe. 

[GoColts8818]

1 hour ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

From time to time, I often wonder if those who work on Colts.com watch what is posted here.    And the latest example of that came yesterday.    I know that's a LONG time ago for some here.

 

Because yesterday, on the front of this website,  was this story about....    Darius Leonard.

 

And for the "Darius Leonard is overrated" crowd,  you have to deal with this....

 

https://www.colts.com/news/darius-leonard-lavonte-david-brian-urlacher-ray-lewis-fun-fact-friday

There is a reason teams don’t make personal decisions based on fans opinions.  

[EastStreet]

I have mixed thoughts on this topic.

 

• I love Leonard as a tackler and fumbler forcer. 
• Coverage he's just OK. 2020 was his worst by far year in coverage IMO. No INTs and 109 passer rating allowed.
• Yes, his combined stats for his first three years are outstanding, but:
  • His stats year 1 are clearly better than years two and three. If you take away his year 1 sacks and FFs, his averages and totals are far less intimidating. Scheme tweaks or opponents adjusting after year one, or just freak outlier in year 1, I don't know.
  • It's hard to compare guys today, with guys like 10-20+ years ago like Bickett or Urlacher. Ds, and LB position are just really really different right now. 
  • The fact that our 4-3 only uses 3LBs a third or less of the time, the WILL in our system naturally is in position to get a lot of Ts. Even Walker at MIKE has been a T machine who's averaged over 100 Ts a year the last 3.
• Overall, I think Leonard is easily a top 10 LBer, but not sure he's top 3 or 4. Do I want to set the market on his contract? Nope. Will I be mad if he gets Bobby Wagner (currently the #1 paid LB) level pay at 18M/year. Nope. Overall, I'm sure he'll get 17-20. Hopefully closer to 17 than 20.

 

However you want to look at it, Leonard is a stud vs the run. And LBs in a 4-3 are devalued. Both are true. Given his shortcomings vs the pass, should he get top pay? I don't know. Would we ever give him his walking papers, doubt it. I wouldn't doubt if Ballard made him an offer and told him to explore the market though. Not that many teams are in a position, or willing, to spend 20/year on a LB.

[Jason_]

6 hours ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Gary Brackett...

 

... Was only marginally better than Gardner. 

[Moosejawcolt]

13 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I have mixed thoughts on this topic.

 

• I love Leonard as a tackler and fumbler forcer. 
• Coverage he's just OK. 2020 was his worst by far year in coverage IMO. No INTs and 109 passer rating allowed.
• Yes, his combined stats for his first three years are outstanding, but:
  • His stats year 1 are clearly better than years two and three. If you take away his year 1 sacks and FFs, his averages and totals are far less intimidating. Scheme tweaks or opponents adjusting after year one, or just freak outlier in year 1, I don't know.
  • It's hard to compare guys today, with guys like 10-20+ years ago like Bickett or Urlacher. Ds, and LB position are just really really different right now. 
  • The fact that our 4-3 only uses 3LBs a third or less of the time, the WILL in our system naturally is in position to get a lot of Ts. Even Walker at MIKE has been a T machine who's averaged over 100 Ts a year the last 3.
• Overall, I think Leonard is easily a top 10 LBer, but not sure he's top 3 or 4. Do I want to set the market on his contract? Nope. Will I be mad if he gets Bobby Wagner (currently the #1 paid LB) level pay at 18M/year. Nope. Overall, I'm sure he'll get 17-20. Hopefully closer to 17 than 20.

 

However you want to look at it, Leonard is a stud vs the run. And LBs in a 4-3 are devalued. Both are true. Given his shortcomings vs the pass, should he get top pay? I don't know. Would we ever give him his walking papers, doubt it. I wouldn't doubt if Ballard made him an offer and told him to explore the market though. Not that many teams are in a position, or willing, to spend 20/year on a LB.

U said it better than I ever could lol.

[Nickster]

18 hours ago, NewColtsFan said:

 

From time to time, I often wonder if those who work on Colts.com watch what is posted here.    And the latest example of that came yesterday.    I know that's a LONG time ago for some here.

 

Because yesterday, on the front of this website,  was this story about....    Darius Leonard.

 

And for the "Darius Leonard is overrated" crowd,  you have to deal with this....

 

https://www.colts.com/news/darius-leonard-lavonte-david-brian-urlacher-ray-lewis-fun-fact-friday

When I say overrated I mean he’s not the best Lb in the league and is not worth 5/95.

 

I think he’s a good player, a really good linebacker.  

[NewColtsFan]

7 minutes ago, Nickster said:

When I say overrated I mean he’s not the best Lb in the league and is not worth 5/95.

 

I think he’s a good player, a really good linebacker.  

I understand.   

[Nickster]

17 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I have mixed thoughts on this topic.

 

• I love Leonard as a tackler and fumbler forcer. 
• Coverage he's just OK. 2020 was his worst by far year in coverage IMO. No INTs and 109 passer rating allowed.
• Yes, his combined stats for his first three years are outstanding, but:
  • His stats year 1 are clearly better than years two and three. If you take away his year 1 sacks and FFs, his averages and totals are far less intimidating. Scheme tweaks or opponents adjusting after year one, or just freak outlier in year 1, I don't know.
  • It's hard to compare guys today, with guys like 10-20+ years ago like Bickett or Urlacher. Ds, and LB position are just really really different right now. 
  • The fact that our 4-3 only uses 3LBs a third or less of the time, the WILL in our system naturally is in position to get a lot of Ts. Even Walker at MIKE has been a T machine who's averaged over 100 Ts a year the last 3.
• Overall, I think Leonard is easily a top 10 LBer, but not sure he's top 3 or 4. Do I want to set the market on his contract? Nope. Will I be mad if he gets Bobby Wagner (currently the #1 paid LB) level pay at 18M/year. Nope. Overall, I'm sure he'll get 17-20. Hopefully closer to 17 than 20.

 

However you want to look at it, Leonard is a stud vs the run. And LBs in a 4-3 are devalued. Both are true. Given his shortcomings vs the pass, should he get top pay? I don't know. Would we ever give him his walking papers, doubt it. I wouldn't doubt if Ballard made him an offer and told him to explore the market though. Not that many teams are in a position, or willing, to spend 20/year on a LB.

You hit that one onto Waveland.  

[Colts1324]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:47 PM, EastStreet said:

I have mixed thoughts on this topic.

 

• I love Leonard as a tackler and fumbler forcer. 
• Coverage he's just OK. 2020 was his worst by far year in coverage IMO. No INTs and 109 passer rating allowed.
• Yes, his combined stats for his first three years are outstanding, but:
  • His stats year 1 are clearly better than years two and three. If you take away his year 1 sacks and FFs, his averages and totals are far less intimidating. Scheme tweaks or opponents adjusting after year one, or just freak outlier in year 1, I don't know.
  • It's hard to compare guys today, with guys like 10-20+ years ago like Bickett or Urlacher. Ds, and LB position are just really really different right now. 
  • The fact that our 4-3 only uses 3LBs a third or less of the time, the WILL in our system naturally is in position to get a lot of Ts. Even Walker at MIKE has been a T machine who's averaged over 100 Ts a year the last 3.
• Overall, I think Leonard is easily a top 10 LBer, but not sure he's top 3 or 4. Do I want to set the market on his contract? Nope. Will I be mad if he gets Bobby Wagner (currently the #1 paid LB) level pay at 18M/year. Nope. Overall, I'm sure he'll get 17-20. Hopefully closer to 17 than 20.

 

However you want to look at it, Leonard is a stud vs the run. And LBs in a 4-3 are devalued. Both are true. Given his shortcomings vs the pass, should he get top pay? I don't know. Would we ever give him his walking papers, doubt it. I wouldn't doubt if Ballard made him an offer and told him to explore the market though. Not that many teams are in a position, or willing, to spend 20/year on a LB.

I agree with everything. However; I would be flabbergasted if Ballard let Leonard even come close to testing the market. 

 

Not only is he a stud, he is the unquestioned leader on this team. That is worth more than people realize. 
 

I think he'll get 5/85-90 million with record in guarantees. 

[EastStreet]

12 hours ago, Colts1324 said:

I agree with everything. However; I would be flabbergasted if Ballard let Leonard even come close to testing the market. 

 

Not only is he a stud, he is the unquestioned leader on this team. That is worth more than people realize. 
 

I think he'll get 5/85-90 million with record in guarantees. 

I'd be good with 5/85.

I love Leonard. Just not the player, the personality too.

I think his agent will be pushing for more though, and I won't be shocked if Ballard let's him test the market.

[w87r]

11 hours ago, EastStreet said:

I'd be good with 5/85.

I love Leonard. Just not the player, the personality too.

I think his agent will be pushing for more though, and I won't be shocked if Ballard let's him test the market.

If by test the market you mean non exclusive Franchise Tag maybe, but he isn't just letting him test the market with the chance of losing him for nothing.

[EastStreet]

11 hours ago, w87r said:

If by test the market you mean non exclusive Franchise Tag maybe, but he isn't just letting him test the market with the chance of losing him for nothing.

Yes, the NEFT.

I expect them to try and work through an extension first though.

[stitches]

 

[w87r]

2 hours ago, stitches said:

 

Hope that guy never plays for another team.

 

 

This is why we just set back and let Ballard work. Total faith in his vision.