JT - Stats and Poll

[EastStreet]

 

Total Yards - 10th

Attempts - 8th

Average - 18th (RBs)

Yards Per Game - 13th

First Down Rushes - 5th

RB Yards from scrimmage - 7th

Catch % - 1st (all positions)

 

1. No RB with equal or more carries has less fumbles
2. He's went from 3.8ish YPC to 4.6 in short order
3. Will he get to 1000? We play the 6th rated rushing D (Pitt), followed by the 30th (Jax). I like his chances. He could get 158 vs Jax alone if Reich lets him.
4. 16th in total yards from scrimmage (all positions) and 7th out of RBs..... 
5. Just getting started as a receiver, but 1st in the league (all positions) in catch rate....
6. And.... leads Elliot in all stats... 

[EastStreet]

Just to throw my opinion out there.... After a slow ramp up early, and a bit of over rotation at times, he's come on just as expected. IMO, easily a top 10 RB. It would be extremely nice next year if we could some how have JT/Mack/Hines. That would be filthy. 

 

 

 

 

@CamMo Thanks for being honest 

[cdgacoltsfan]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Just to throw my opinion out there.... After a slow ramp up early, and a bit of over rotation at times, he's come on just as expected. IMO, easily a top 10 RB. It would be extremely nice next year if we could some how have JT/Mack/Hines. That would be filthy. 

@CamMo Thanks for being honest 

Unfortunately for Mack, I can't think of a running back that has ever come back from an Achilles tear. 

[MB-ColtsFan]

Was excited as soon as I saw some film on him.  I thought he would just share the load with Mack, but once he went down I was impatient and immediately wanted more carries for him.  I can't complain the way Rathman and Reich have handled him thus far, but I wonder if his stats would be better if they hadn't been so determined to go the RB by committee route?

 

As for 1000 yards, I think Reich will try to get it for him, but he is probably going to try to save him if we are up big on the Jags in the last game to keep him fresh for the playoffs.  Maybe I should change my vote for 1k to no??  haha.

[Valpo2004]

I don't know that the poll really reflects my opinion.

 

I was concerned about him coming out of Wisconsin because that school has a history of busts at the RB position.

 

Was more concerned when at times he was clearly missing open rushing lanes.

 

Am less concerned now because he's been more productive and decisive.

 

I can't say I really hated the pick and I actually wanted them to get another high level RB.  I just had concerns that he could be a bust.  But at this point he seems to be doing ok so I'm not very concerned about him busting at this point.  

[CamMo]

He looks like a completely different runner the last few weeks. I judged him early, but to write off a rookie or pass concrete judgement is silly. If he keeps running like he is and we don’t get blown out by the Steelers, he should get 1000 yards. 

[Nickster]

11 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Just to throw my opinion out there.... After a slow ramp up early, and a bit of over rotation at times, he's come on just as expected. IMO, easily a top 10 RB. It would be extremely nice next year if we could some how have JT/Mack/Hines. That would be filthy. 

 

 

 

 

@CamMo Thanks for being honest 

 

Loved him since we drafted him

I hated on him too much early, but have changed my opinion.

I'm still unsure

I still think he's overrated and a bad pick.

 

 

I fall between these two.  i thought he really looked good on some carries this month  I don't think my opinion has changed, but I think he showed very little as a runner until a few weeks ago.  They give him downhill carries he looks good.  I doubt our Oline has improved.  These holes were always there IMO, but Taylor wasn't hitting them.

 

I still think we will need someone else to complement he and Hines.  And I don't think Mack is a good option with the Achilles. 

 

He has been great running downhill this month.  We will need someone else bigger than Hines to do some of the other types of carries.  I wish we had a healthy Mack because that would be the best RB room in football.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, cdgacoltsfan said:

Unfortunately for Mack, I can't think of a running back that has ever come back from an Achilles tear. 

Mack is still young, so hopefully he's the exception. 

Even if he's not a fast, he still has very good vision and patience behind our zone blocking scheme.

 

And his injury is why I think he'll be back (unless he takes a lot of time to recover, etc).

1 minute ago, MB-ColtsFan said:

Was excited as soon as I saw some film on him.  I thought he would just share the load with Mack, but once he went down I was impatient and immediately wanted more carries for him.  I can't complain the way Rathman and Reich have handled him thus far, but I wonder if his stats would be better if they hadn't been so determined to go the RB by committee route?

 

As for 1000 yards, I think Reich will try to get it for him, but he is probably going to try to save him if we are up big on the Jags in the last game to keep him fresh for the playoffs.  Maybe I should change my vote for 1k to no??  haha.

The rotation is a bit "over rotation" to me at times, but I think the same approach would have been much better with Mack. Hines has done pretty darn good though. 

 

I agree, on Reich trying to get it for him. It's a feather in Reich's cap too. 

 

As far as the Jags game goes, I think he'll have a couple long runs, but agree he'll sit him late. 

Just now, Valpo2004 said:

I don't know that the poll really reflects my opinion.

 

I was concerned about him coming out of Wisconsin because that school has a history of busts at the RB position.

 

Was more concerned when at times he was clearly missing open rushing lanes.

 

Am less concerned now because he's been more productive and decisive.

 

I can't say I really hated the pick and I actually wanted them to get another high level RB.  I just had concerns that he could be a bust.  But at this point he seems to be doing ok so I'm not very concerned about him busting at this point.  

Fair enough. Personally I think the Wiscy busts were because of different reasons, and IMO, JT was a different kind of RB. 

You always have to give RBs time to adjust to new blocking schemes, and more time when their coming from a "power" scheme like Wiscy, and going to a zone system like ours.

[Fluke_33]

27 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

He could get 158 vs Jax alone if Reich lets him.

This is the key to my voting he won't .  I think reich will limit his carries.

[crazycolt1]

Taylor finally started running with his instinct rather than thinking too much. 

He didn't all of a sudden get better vision like some are suggesting. He had it all along. 

[Nickster]

16 minutes ago, Valpo2004 said:

I don't know that the poll really reflects my opinion.

 

I was concerned about him coming out of Wisconsin because that school has a history of busts at the RB position.

 

Was more concerned when at times he was clearly missing open rushing lanes.

 

Am less concerned now because he's been more productive and decisive.

 

I can't say I really hated the pick and I actually wanted them to get another high level RB.  I just had concerns that he could be a bust.  But at this point he seems to be doing ok so I'm not very concerned about him busting at this point.  

 

This is pretty much a ditto for me.

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taylor finally started running with his instinct rather than thinking too much. 

He didn't all of a sudden get better vision like some are suggesting. He had it all along. 

I'd have to study it, but I really think they are using him differently than they were. 

[EastStreet]

3 minutes ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taylor finally started running with his instinct rather than thinking too much. 

He didn't all of a sudden get better vision like some are suggesting. He had it all along. 

Yup, adjusting to just the jump ain speed in the NFL, plus a very different blocking scheme.... takes time. It's becoming more and more natural to him. 

[B~Town]

Was ecstatic when we drafted him . Did start to worry as he plowed into his own line to reminiscent of T rich . It appears the game is starting to slow down for him he has popped the month or so . 

[DougDew]

I loved the pick at the time, especially cementing the idea that we would be looking to upgrade from Mack, but was having some doubts midseason when he seemed to be struggling with field vision.  I don't think he is a Derrick Henry like work horse, but he looks like the upgrade that I thought we needed.

 

And definitely has the long field speed to be a threat to score from long distances.

[EastStreet]

7 minutes ago, DougDew said:

I loved the pick at the time, especially cementing the idea that we would be looking to upgrade from Mack, but was having some doubts midseason when he seemed to be struggling with field vision.  I don't think he is a Derrick Henry like work horse, but he looks like the upgrade that I thought we needed.

 

And definitely has the long field speed to be a threat to score from long distances.

Of course he's not DHenry, but he was never going to be a big/huge RB bruiser type. He can be a work horse. He already is. Top 10 in carries. He's just not a pile driver. He's a body blow guy with speed.

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Of course he's not DHenry, but he was never going to be a big/huge RB bruiser type. He can be a work horse. He already is. Top 10 in carries. He's just not a pile driver. He's a body blow guy with speed.

My point is that I don't think he will or should get the number of running plays as Henry...not enough of a pounder.  JT may be rotated out a bit more than what we see with Henry.  And while they may both get the same amount of touches, I would hope that JT gets a few more of his via the pass so he doesn't have to pound as much.

[Four2itus]

He is one of the most timely picks Ballard has made. If he hadn't, when MM went down, the season would have been pretty damned improbable. 

[EastStreet]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

My point is that I don't think he will or should get the number of running plays as Henry...not enough of a pounder.  JT may be rotated out a bit more than what we see with Henry.  And while they may both get the same amount of touches, I would hope that JT gets a few more of his via the pass so he doesn't have to pound as much.

They have no where near the same amount of touches. Henry has the most carries in the NFL (321), and had 300 plus last year too. IMO, TN is going to send him to an early grave. That's just dumb. Taylor is top 10 with only 184 carries at this point.

 

225 should be a good mark, +/- 25ish if you don't want to kill your RB. (not counting playoffs)

 

Just for comparison sakes, JT has more carries, and a better AVG than Henry did his first two years.

[EastStreet]

4 minutes ago, Four2itus said:

He is one of the most timely picks Ballard has made. If he hadn't, when MM went down, the season would have been pretty damned improbable. 

We all know it was likely to cover the potential departure of Mack, but yes, great timing. 

 

I'm pretty sure Ballard would have hit the FA market if we didn't have JT (after Mack went down).

[Malakai432]

I think he can break 1,000 yds but I have a feeling it's going to be close.  That being said especially over the last month he's seriously impressed me.  I was a huge Taylor fan from the get go and had no idea he would fall into our laps.  I've already started collecting some of his memorabilia, like that of Edgerrin because I was a huge fan of Edge from the get go.  I did really like Mack also, it's unfortunate what happened to him but it's good to see Taylor shining.  

[EastStreet]

Just now, Malakai432 said:

I think he can break 1,000 yds but I have a feeling it's going to be close.  That being said especially over the last month he's seriously impressed me.  I was a huge Taylor fan from the get go and had no idea he would fall into our laps.  I've already started collecting some of his memorabilia, like that of Edgerrin because I was a huge fan of Edge from the get go.  I did really like Mack also, it's unfortunate what happened to him but it's good to see Taylor shining.  

 

I love Edge. If I ever build another house and do a big man room, I'm going to have his ESPN pic with the gold teeth blown up to hang on my wall. 

[compuls1v3]

1 hour ago, crazycolt1 said:

Taylor finally started running with his instinct rather than thinking too much. 

He didn't all of a sudden get better vision like some are suggesting. He had it all along. 

I agree.  He was hesitating alot, now he just has more confidence, IMHO.  I did notice he tried to run some people over this past game and got stood up.  I hope he gets back to lowering his shoulder, because he got stood up several times, and wasn't over powering anyone at that point.

[BeanDiasucci]

54 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

This is pretty much a ditto for me.

Oh, c'mon. You're not giving yourself enough credit for how strong and bold your take on Taylor was. You posted again and again and again about how unimpressive he is. When people told you that you needed to give him more time, you told us more about his deficiencies, about how he can't fit the Colts' offense and how Wisconsin running backs are all busts. When people told you that you were wrong about Taylor and were judging him too soon, you said it was an opinion so it couldn't be wrong. 

[Nickster]

2 minutes ago, compuls1v3 said:

I agree.  He was hesitating alot, now he just has more confidence, IMHO.  I did notice he tried to run some people over this past game and got stood up.  I hope he gets back to lowering his shoulder, because he got stood up several times, and wasn't over powering anyone at that point.

 

I think that happens when he tries to make a move in the hole.  Yeah it happened several times.  He has to stay downhill because he is not good at changing directions or speed.  This is why I think we definitly need someone else.  

 

I said earlier that he's not really very powerful in the hole.  

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, Nickster said:

 

I think that happens when he tries to make a move in the hole.  Yeah it happened several times.  He has to stay downhill because he is not good at changing directions or speed.  This is why I think we definitly need someone else.  

 

I said earlier that he's not really very powerful in the hole.  

Powerful in the hole? Dude, if your expectation is Henry, you will NEVER be happy. Henry is a 6-3 and 240 unicorn. Taylor is 5-10ish, and 225. Taylor has had plenty of powerful runs compared to the rest of the RBs in the league not named Henry.

 

We don't need anyone else. If you're concerned with pile driving backs, get a FB.

[Nickster]

5 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

Oh, c'mon. You're not giving yourself enough credit for how strong and bold your take on Taylor was. You posted again and again and again about how unimpressive he is. When people told you that you needed to give him more time, you told us more about his deficiencies, about how he can't fit the Colts' offense and how Wisconsin running backs are all busts. When people told you that you were wrong about Taylor and were judging him too soon, you said it was an opinion so it couldn't be wrong. 

I don't think you are accurately portraying what I have said about the dude from the beginning.  The Colts have changed their playcalls with JT Bean, even going under center on occasion. Here are examples of exchanges I had about him.  The bolded parts are my responses to some others.  

 

 

I don't disagree with there possibly being more yards there that were missed, especially for an "elite" prospect. But I gotta think as his reps increase, he'll learn some patience to hit those cutbacks, much like Mack did. Mack didn't start out nearly as patient as he has become... hopefully JT learns to do the same because he's a bruiser and he's fast. Improved vision could vault him into league leading territory. If that doesn't happen though, we may have a 3.75-4.25 guy on our hands... which isn't great but there are worse things I suppose.

I agree.  He would be better suited in an old fashioned I type of scheme.  I will be surprised if the colts don’t start splitting the carries soon.  Either with Wilkins or with a vet FA.

 

 

 

 

  On 9/21/2020 at 1:17 PM, Rackeen305 said:

I wouldn't be so quick to throw JT in the recycling bin. #1 he's a rookie and as already ran for over 100 yards within 2 games. You are comparing him to jags UDFA RB who yes, is having a fantastic year thus far. But JAGs RB performance has nothing to do with JT's performance, which is pretty darn good to say the least.

 

 

I didn't throw him in the recycling bin.  I said I wasn't impressed with his running and I'm not.  He's going to be good at short yardage, apparantly the passing game (if he can pass pro), and will occasionally break off large chunks of yds. when the hole is clear and he can use that burst.

 

In other situaions, espeacially calls when he runs laterally with the LOS, I think he will struggle. 

 

Taylor is a punishing back.  He may not always "break one" but if he can stay healthy and handle the workload he will make defenses wilt game to game. We've needed a rb like him.  It's just a shame mack isnt there to balance his carries. 

I think this is the key.  Taylor is definitely going to be great short yard runner.  There is little doubt about this. 
 

I don’t think he’s ever going to be a guy who can make people miss or find lanes when they aren’t obvious.  This is not his talent.  When he does juke a guy, it takes too long for him to go North again.

 

i don’t think he’s going to be a 3 down back in the league, but I know for sure the Colts didn’t think it today because he was out in leverage situations today when the game was still in doubt.  He is not good at changing directions or speed.  I think he would be most effective in an I or a a pistol so  he can start downhill, but that isn’t what Indy does.

 

We are going to need another guy I think.  Mack was that guy but now who knows.

 

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Powerful in the hole? Dude, if your expectation is Henry, you will NEVER be happy. Henry is a 6-3 and 240 unicorn. Taylor is 5-10ish, and 225. Taylor has had plenty of powerful runs compared to the rest of the RBs in the league not named Henry.

 

We don't need anyone else. If you're concerned with pile driving backs, get a FB.

No that's not what I'm talking about like Henry.

 

I've been saying from the beginning that he needs to run downhill and I am pretty sure you agree with that if I remember correctly.  To me, that's been the biggest difference.  In the 3rd Q of the GB game they put PR under center for a while and JT really looked good then.  That I think is the difference between the first half of the season and the last month.

 

He's been impressive since then.

 

(See what I did there?)

 

 

[BeanDiasucci]

6 minutes ago, Nickster said:

I don't think you are accurately portraying what I have said about the dude from the beginning.  The Colts have changed their playcalls with JT Bean, even going under center on occasion. Here are examples of exchanges I had about him.  The bolded parts are my responses to some others.  

 

I think I'm being very accurate about what you said from the beginning. You've changed your negative take from week to week as it falls apart, but let's not forget comments like this one, among many:

 

Quote

Looked awful.  Can’t make the edge.  Looked dancy up the middle.  Had the one good gain in the pass where he ran over the CB 20 yds downfield.  Wisco RBs are like Japanese receivers to me. I’ll believe it when I see it. That KC kid looks way better than Taylor.  RBs should be able to come in and produce right away in many cases. 

 

[twfish]

1 hour ago, Nickster said:

 

Loved him since we drafted him

I hated on him too much early, but have changed my opinion.

I'm still unsure

I still think he's overrated and a bad pick.

 

 

I fall between these two.  i thought he really looked good on some carries this month  I don't think my opinion has changed, but I think he showed very little as a runner until a few weeks ago.  They give him downhill carries he looks good.  I doubt our Oline has improved.  These holes were always there IMO, but Taylor wasn't hitting them.

 

I still think we will need someone else to complement he and Hines.  And I don't think Mack is a good option with the Achilles. 

 

He has been great running downhill this month.  We will need someone else bigger than Hines to do some of the other types of carries.  I wish we had a healthy Mack because that would be the best RB room in football.

To the bolded what defines him as a bad pick?

Has he came in and made an impact? Yes

Has he improved in his weakness throughout the season? Yes

Has he made tough runs giving us first downs and touchdowns when we needed them? Yes

Even though he wasnt supposed to start the season and has split carrying time between 2 other RB's he is still nearly at 1,000 rushing yards and has been lethal in the pass game, actually an area scouts thought that he lacked and is why he fell later in the draft. 2 or 3 years ago we would have begged for a 1,000 yard rusher and a dynamic back so i am curious on why you think he was a bad pick?

[EastStreet]

14 minutes ago, Nickster said:

No that's not what I'm talking about like Henry.

 

I've been saying from the beginning that he needs to run downhill and I am pretty sure you agree with that if I remember correctly.  To me, that's been the biggest difference.  In the 3rd Q of the GB game they put PR under center for a while and JT really looked good then.  That I think is the difference between the first half of the season and the last month.

 

He's been impressive since then.

 

(See what I did there?)

I still think you're being a tad harsh. Running down hill requires a few things, not under the control of the RB. The right play call, and the right formation are key. As you noted, putting PR under center helps tremendously. But a good portion of our running plays are zone block reads. That's simply not supportive of a ton of down hill runs (unless the G/C gap is wide open every time).

 

If we went to power/man/gap running a bunch, you'd see JT kill it downhill. 

[Nickster]

20 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I think I'm being very accurate about what you said from the beginning. You've changed your negative take from week to week as it falls apart, but let's not forget comments like this one, among many:

 

 

that was after the 9 carrry 22 yd rushing effort Week 1 v Jags.  Did you have a diffeent opinion of his running that game?

[Nickster]

16 minutes ago, twfish said:

To the bolded what defines him as a bad pick?

Has he came in and made an impact? Yes

Has he improved in his weakness throughout the season? Yes

Has he made tough runs giving us first downs and touchdowns when we needed them? Yes

Even though he wasnt supposed to start the season and has split carrying time between 2 other RB's he is still nearly at 1,000 rushing yards and has been lethal in the pass game, actually an area scouts thought that he lacked and is why he fell later in the draft. 2 or 3 years ago we would have begged for a 1,000 yard rusher and a dynamic back so i am curious on why you think he was a bad pick?

 

 

What you copied was me copying Easts poll. 

 

I didn't highlight bad pick their, but in general I don't think we needed to draft an RB that high.  I don't think it's necessary.  Titans are really the only club that is competive that has an RB that is their best player.  Not many of the other contenders the last few years had top backs. 

 

It might be an emerging trend, but high picks at RB haven't really been very prominent on contending teams for several years. now.

[Nickster]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

I still think you're being a tad harsh. Running down hill requires a few things, not under the control of the RB. The right play call, and the right formation are key. As you noted, putting PR under center helps tremendously. But a good portion of our running plays are zone block reads. That's simply not supportive of a ton of down hill runs (unless the G/C gap is wide open every time).

 

If we went to power/man/gap running a bunch, you'd see JT kill it downhill. 

Man I agree.  I think you and I or it might have been supe talked about how I thought it was a weird pick if you were going to run him like Mack.  This was perplexing to me. 

 

I was never impressed with his running until 3Q v. GB.  I never said I thought he was a bust.  I said I was skeptical, but I was sure he was being used wrong.  I think the Colts have really changed how they use him.

 

[shasta519]

41/47 loved the JT pick? Not sure I buy that haha...there was a lot consternation about that pick. 

[Nickster]

32 minutes ago, BeanDiasucci said:

I think I'm being very accurate about what you said from the beginning. You've changed your negative take from week to week as it falls apart, but let's not forget comments like this one, among many:

 

 

This was my 3rd or 4th post in the thread.  So dude, I haven't really changed anything.  

 

Senior Member

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1,319 posts

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Posted September 13

And for the record I’m not writing the guy off, but his running was very uninspiring. Outside of his first catch which was a counter type play which totally fooled the d, he was not very good.  That is all I’m saying.

 

RB Is the position most likely to be productive for rookies.  However, Wisco runs a primitive offense, so it is also understandable that they had very little for him in the game plan.
 

to me his runs between the tackles were unimpressive.  History is not kind to high yardage backs from W

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, EastStreet said:

 

Total Yards - 10th

Attempts - 8th

Average - 18th (RBs)

Yards Per Game - 13th

First Down Rushes - 5th

RB Yards from scrimmage - 7th

Catch % - 1st (all positions)

 

1. No RB with equal or more carries has less fumbles
2. He's went from 3.8ish YPC to 4.6 in short order
3. Will he get to 1000? We play the 6th rated rushing D (Pitt), followed by the 30th (Jax). I like his chances. He could get 158 vs Jax alone if Reich lets him.
4. 16th in total yards from scrimmage (all positions) and 7th out of RBs..... 
5. Just getting started as a receiver, but 1st in the league (all positions) in catch rate....
6. And.... leads Elliot in all stats... 

 

Still #1 in DVOA for receiving backs as well. I thought he would be good...but not that good yet. No reason he shouldn't get 5-6 targets/game.

 

Also...I noticed you left off TDs. The main reason he's not pushing for 10 rushing TDs is Reich/Rathman. They have vultured so many goal line touches from him.

[Four2itus]

 

[EastStreet]

22 minutes ago, Nickster said:

Man I agree.  I think you and I or it might have been supe talked about how I thought it was a weird pick if you were going to run him like Mack.  This was perplexing to me. 

 

I was never impressed with his running until 3Q v. GB.  I never said I thought he was a bust.  I said I was skeptical, but I was sure he was being used wrong.  I think the Colts have really changed how they use him.

Sound like you should worry more about Reich/Rathman than be skeptical of JT. I certainly understand the benefits of zone block read running, but there are times you just need to unleash your OL and RBs and just power/man/gap the hell out of teams. Especially if they're a light front. 

 

JT was good at zone reads too at Wiscy, it was just a very different scheme. They use a ton of 2 back plays. 

 

Mack took time to adjust too. JT at 4.6 in year one is FAR ahead of Mack's schedule. 

[EastStreet]

19 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

Still #1 in DVOA for receiving backs as well. I thought he would be good...but not that good yet. No reason he shouldn't get 5-6 targets/game.

 

Also...I noticed you left off TDs. The main reason he's not pushing for 10 rushing TDs is Reich/Rathman. They have vultured so many goal line touches from him.

Yup. Most folks don't "get" DVOA or EP. IMO, he should get more targets than that. If he did, folks wouldn't be able to key as much on the run. Similar to Hines, just not as pass heavy. I still want to see both on the field at times, and perhaps one lining up in the slot. We have soooooo much potential to be more dynamic than we are. 

 

Yeah. Reich has totally taken food off his plate when it comes to TDs. He's the guy I want getting snaps whenever we're on the 10 or closer.