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Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)


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1 hour ago, chad72 said:

 

Re-signing Smith, Leonard and Rhodes should be higher priorities than Hilton and Houston, IMO.

 

It makes more sense to re-sign Leonard and Smith next year when the cap goes back up.

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I love how good people are at reaching conclusions, based on absolutely no information at all.    First, we were definitely getting Stafford. Now, we're definitely not. (And we will definite

Stafford was always my #1 choice among veteran options. (He was my preferred choice last offseason, someone posted a poll and I picked him.)   I'M ALL IN ON STAFFORD YALL.

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5 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

It's not always that simple, even with AC off the books, Spotrac has our cap space at 68 mil

 

In this case it's pretty simple. AC didn't have a signing bonus, he had a roster bonus and guaranteed salary in 2020, nothing guaranteed in 2021. The money he was paid was earned, per his contract. Nothing to rebate, prorate, or return. Just wipe out everything scheduled for 2021.

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12 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

In this case it's pretty simple. AC didn't have a signing bonus, he had a roster bonus and guaranteed salary in 2020, nothing guaranteed in 2021. The money he was paid was earned, per his contract. Nothing to rebate, prorate, or return. Just wipe out everything scheduled for 2021.

 

But the difference was only half his salary in 2021

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4 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Zak keeper has a new story on Eason. Mentions in here that he was told that they believe Eason is a year away from competing for the starting job. His exit interviews went really well.  They may actually be looking at him as the future. Not to say they can’t fall in love with someone in the draft but it sounds promising he might get a shot. If they feel strong about him they might just roll with rivers another year and not look at anyone other veteran options.

 

 

If they are telling us FROM NOW, that he won't be ready for 2021, then I am starting to lose hope on him. I think if your QB can't get ready for 2 years to step foot on the field then there is something wrong. Either he's not as sharp as the coaching staff would like him to be, or ... our coaching staff is not particularly good in preparing a young QB to start in the league. 

 

This to me sounds like Eason doesn't really feature into our immediate plans at the QB spot so... for all intents and purposes we can move into the off-season not worrying to much about him and his spot on the team. If they get the chance to bring in a franchise QB from the draft or from FA/trade, they won't hesitate to do it on behalf of Eason. 

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1 minute ago, CR91 said:

 

But the difference was only half his salary in 2021

If he played this season he would have got 16 million.   Now he gets zero.   Add that 16 to the available cap.   Pretty simple

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2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

If he played this season he would have got 16 million.   Now he gets zero.   Add that 16 to the available cap.   Pretty simple

 

You would think, however AC is off the books yet Spotrac only has our cap go up by 8 mil

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4 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

But the difference was only half his salary in 2021

 

I don't follow. None of his pay for 2021 was guaranteed at signing. It all goes away with his retirement.

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7 minutes ago, stitches said:

If they are telling us FROM NOW, that he won't be ready for 2021, then I am starting to lose hope on him. I think if your QB can't get ready for 2 years to step foot on the field then there is something wrong. Either he's not as sharp as the coaching staff would like him to be, or ... our coaching staff is not particularly good in preparing a young QB to start in the league. 

 

This to me sounds like Eason doesn't really feature into our immediate plans at the QB spot so... for all intents and purposes we can move into the off-season not worrying to much about him and his spot on the team. If they get the chance to bring in a franchise QB from the draft or from FA/trade, they won't hesitate to do it on behalf of Eason. 

I don’t think that is what it means. With covid and no preseason games and still having Jacoby he is probably behind where he should be. He has had very few reps even in practice. Not to mention he didn’t play much college football either.

 

This quote does stick out in the article.

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

I don't follow. None of his pay for 2021 was guaranteed at signing. It all goes away with his retirement.

 

Spotrac shows 68 mil as our cap space. Before AC was off the books, it was 60 mil

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1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think that is what it means. With covid and no preseason games and still having Jacoby he is probably behind where he should be. He has had very few reps even in practice. Not to mention he didn’t play much college football either.

 

This quote does stick out in the article.

 

 

Meh, I'm not convinced. We were hearing the same things about Kelly. How there is a plan and all of that jazz... To me this is empty words. 

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No LT, no WR1, no TE1, no CB1, no ED1... Too much "no" to invest too much in QB position. So draft BPA, sign 1-3 high profile FA, start Eason and sign Jameis Winston to be backup.

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15 minutes ago, stitches said:

Meh, I'm not convinced. We were hearing the same things about Kelly. How there is a plan and all of that jazz... To me this is empty words. 

We never heard anything like that with Kelly from media sources.  Eason might of been ready for 21 if Jacoby hadn’t been in the picture. 

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22 minutes ago, CR91 said:

 

Spotrac shows 68 mil as our cap space. Before AC was off the books, it was 60 mil

 

Something else must have changed. There's no cap holdover for AC. Maybe they just updated the other futures contracts or something.

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6 minutes ago, K-148 said:

No LT, no WR1, no TE1, no CB1, no ED1... Too much "no" to invest too much in QB position. So draft BPA, sign 1-3 high profile FA, start Eason and sign Jameis Winston to be backup.

Right with you ... until you brought up “crab legs.”

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Something else must have changed. There's no cap holdover for AC. Maybe they just updated the other futures contracts or something.

Yes, I think updated the futures. 

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38 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

I don’t think that is what it means. With covid and no preseason games and still having Jacoby he is probably behind where he should be. He has had very few reps even in practice. Not to mention he didn’t play much college football either.

 

This quote does stick out in the article.

 

 

Agree.  i'm sure they had plans to play him in preseason and get much more work in during training camp and practice.  He couldn't even get reps in during practice.  Pretty much a lost year.  Not entirely of course but at his position and the circumstances it pretty much was.  Right now it looks good for Eason.  I would not expect us to draft a QB this year.  

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JMV has a lions media guy on. He is almost convincing me Stafford would be a very good fit here lol. It would buy even more time to see what Eason has or draft another QB. 

 

Would you guys give up our first for him? Similar to what we did with Buckner. 

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I think if they believe in Eason they could possibly run it back with Rivers. If they don’t think he can be the future and don’t take anyone in the draft they could go after a guy like Stafford that would give them a few years. If they believe in Eason or get a QB in the first round then they probably roll with rivers for one more year.

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1 hour ago, Superman said:

 

I don't follow. None of his pay for 2021 was guaranteed at signing. It all goes away with his retirement.

We got all his money back,  its with future contracts, they took up the other $8m.

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15 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

JMV has a lions media guy on. He is almost convincing me Stafford would be a very good fit here lol. It would buy even more time to see what Eason has or draft another QB. 

 

Would you guys give up our first for him? Similar to what we did with Buckner. 

Dodds for Stafford... who says no? 

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42 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

Something else must have changed. There's no cap holdover for AC. Maybe they just updated the other futures contracts or something.

Also... Overthecap has us at 65 now after having us at 72 yesterday. They probably updated the futures too... maybe more futures than the spotrac? 

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Also... Overthecap has us at 65 now after having us at 72 yesterday. They probably updated the futures too... maybe more futures than the spotrac? 

 

There's always a little daylight between the two. Short of doing a line by line, I just assume one has some specifics the other hasn't updated yet.

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2 minutes ago, Superman said:

 

There's always a little daylight between the two. Short of doing a line by line, I just assume one has some specifics the other hasn't updated yet.

Neither one of them have Dulin and Stallworth extensions included yet either. Which were reported agreed upon. 1yr low salary ERFA contracts. Probably would equalnout on top 51 anyway.

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1 hour ago, stitches said:

If they are telling us FROM NOW, that he won't be ready for 2021, then I am starting to lose hope on him. I think if your QB can't get ready for 2 years to step foot on the field then there is something wrong. Either he's not as sharp as the coaching staff would like him to be, or ... our coaching staff is not particularly good in preparing a young QB to start in the league. 

 

This to me sounds like Eason doesn't really feature into our immediate plans at the QB spot so... for all intents and purposes we can move into the off-season not worrying to much about him and his spot on the team. If they get the chance to bring in a franchise QB from the draft or from FA/trade, they won't hesitate to do it on behalf of Eason. 

 

If they don't think he's ready to step in...then he's not ready to be the QB2...because the QB2 has to be ready to step in. 

 

And there's no way he's going from QB3 to QB1 in 2022.

 

I think he was drafted to be a cheap QB2...who could they potentially flip for draft capital once they found their long-term option. I think he has no bearing on their offseason plans for QB. And I think those offseason plans are going to surprise several people.

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11 minutes ago, stitches said:

Also... Overthecap has us at 65 now after having us at 72 yesterday. They probably updated the futures too... maybe more futures than the spotrac? 

On main page and Colts' page 65,685,217. But when you press "2021 Cap Space" it is 72,725,217.

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6 minutes ago, shasta519 said:

 

If they don't think he's ready to step in...then he's not ready to be the QB2...because the QB2 has to be ready to step in. 

 

And there's no way he's going from QB3 to QB1 in 2022.

 

I think he was drafted to be a cheap QB2...who could they potentially flip for draft capital once they found their long-term option. I think he has no bearing on their offseason plans for QB. And I think those offseason plans are going to surprise several people.

Yep, I think you are right. I don't want to jump over myself but it probably means they have not seen some important steps they wanted to see in his development. I can't imagine why they would completely rule him out from January otherwise. He's probably ways away from being ready and they don't think there is realistic path to him getting ready. I think most probable path is - he will be QB3 next year too(2021) and then depending on how he does in practice/meetings he will either be QB2 in 2022 or will be out of the roster. I think this is the most likely scenario based on what we are lead to believe. 

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10 minutes ago, stitches said:

Dodds for Stafford... who says no? 

 

Stafford is definitely one approach. If they bring in Stafford...then they better sign and draft a couple of prominent pass catchers to set out to have a top 5 passing offense the next few seasons. But this could come at the expense of the defense.

 

A draft pick saves a lot of cap space. 

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9 minutes ago, stitches said:

Also... Overthecap has us at 65 now after having us at 72 yesterday. They probably updated the futures too... maybe more futures than the spotrac? 

Didn't think futures were counted in top 51. I guess they might if there are under 51 total right now, but OTC shows a cutoff line, and ST shows strikethroughs. I'm confused.

 

Sportrac shows 68.8 space with T51

OTC shows 65.7 space with T51

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My guess is Stafford stays. Lions at number seven are going to miss out most likely on the top 3 QB. Lance would probably still be there or they could move up I guess. But 7 is kind of a weird spot depending on how things fall.

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1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

Didn't think futures were counted in top 51. I guess they might if there are under 51 total right now, but OTC shows a cutoff line, and ST shows strikethroughs. I'm confused.

 

Sportrac shows 68.8 space with T51

OTC shows 65.7 space with T51

Either way, where did this conversation start about the cap? What was the relation to the current thread? 

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4 minutes ago, stitches said:

Yep, I think you are right. I don't want to jump over myself but it probably means they have not seen some important steps they wanted to see in his development. I can't imagine why they would completely rule him out from January otherwise. He's probably way away from being ready and they don't think there is realistic path to him getting ready. I think most probable path is - he will be QB3 next year too(2021) and then depending on how he does in practice/meetings he will either be QB2 in 2022 or will be out of the roster. I think this is the most likely scenario based on what we are lead to believe. 

If we had a normal offense last year and Jacoby wasn’t here forcing him to be the backup I would probably agree with you. But realistically until they see him in preseason games and in practice and OTA it makes sense that they don’t think he is quite ready yet.

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2 minutes ago, stitches said:

Either way, where did this conversation start about the cap? What was the relation to the current thread? 

don't know, but your post triggered me to go check to see the impact of AC and others lol...

 

did you notice all the teams in red. 

gonna be some value plays this year. i'm sure Ballard has already started window shopping.

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Didn't think futures were counted in top 51. I guess they might if there are under 51 total right now, but OTC shows a cutoff line, and ST shows strikethroughs. I'm confused.

 

Sportrac shows 68.8 space with T51

OTC shows 65.7 space with T51

 

Top 51 is based on cap hit, so some futures might hit the top 51 right now. Once FA and the draft are over, they won't.

 

It's kind of pointless to get too wrapped up in these calculations at this point. Lots of small changes take place at this time of year, and they don't always get updated in a timely manner on these sites. Rough numbers should be fine, unless there's a major discrepancy somewhere.

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Just now, Superman said:

 

Top 51 is based on cap hit, so some futures might hit the top 51 right now. Once FA and the draft are over, they won't.

 

It's kind of pointless to get too wrapped up in these calculations at this point. Lots of small changes take place at this time of year, and they don't always get updated in a timely manner on these sites. Rough numbers should be fine, unless there's a major discrepancy somewhere.

Yup. Not wrapped up about the delta, just thought they excluded futures in the off season calc.

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2 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup. Not wrapped up about the delta, just thought they excluded futures in the off season calc.

 

Partly depends on how many players are still under contract. We have 23 players hitting FA (not accounting for any tenders yet), so right now several futures are included in the top 51. Probably won't be the case in a few weeks when we've re-signed some players. Even if you slot in the 2021 draft pick contracts, probably pushes any futures contracts out of the top 51.

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5 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

don't know, but your post triggered me to go check to see the impact of AC and others lol...

 

did you notice all the teams in red. 

gonna be some value plays this year. i'm sure Ballard has already started window shopping.

 

https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/2021/

Yah, the problem is we are quickly moving toward that group too. We have Braden, Quenton and Leonard to give contract to/extend over the next year... They can easily go for 50-55M. And we still have no QB signed for next year. 

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1 minute ago, Superman said:

 

Partly depends on how many players are still under contract. We have 23 players hitting FA (not accounting for any tenders yet), so right now several futures are included in the top 51. Probably won't be the case in a few weeks when we've re-signed some players. Even if you slot in the 2021 draft pick contracts, probably pushes any futures contracts out of the top 51.

I get. Like I said, if we're under 51 on the regs, they'll count. I just though at least one of the sites totally excluded them in the off season. 

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1 minute ago, stitches said:

Yah, the problem is we are quickly moving toward that group too. We have Braden, Quenton and Leonard to give contract to/extend over the next year... They can easily go for 50-55M. And we still have no QB signed for next year. 

 

Right now, I'd be okay with backloaded contracts for those players. The cap is going to balloon by 2023, at the latest. Maybe lock those three in with increasing cap figures, and let their cap figures ride up with the salary cap. That way those new deals are maybe taking $35m in cap space in 2021-22, rather than $55m. Not how I'd typically want to do it, I'm more in favor of the Ryan Kelly structure, but given the weird cap dynamics right now, I'd make an exception at this juncture.

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