Qb for next year/QB class of 2021 (merge)

[GoColts8818]

Just now, Sumo63 said:

Honest question, how long do you think he can afford to be patient?  After 2021 (unless my math is off, which it consistently is) hes at the half decade point in his tenure.

 

How long before caution becomes apathy?

 

If he cant do any better than a band-aid at qb now and we're not going to be a top 10 (or 20) draft pick how long is his leash?  I feel the pressure for him, hes gotta know it's getting tight.

I don’t think it’s apathy it’s that position is very hard to find and forcing it just to force it is a move that will set you back five years if not longer.  He might not find that guy in a draft either.  It may come via a trade or a free agent too not unlike Tannelhill did for the Titans.  If you listen to his end of the year presser he gets it but he also gets that you can’t just force a move because you need the QB of the future.  

[Sumo63]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

I don’t think it’s apathy it’s that position is very hard to find and forcing it just to force it is a move that will set you back five years if not longer.  He might not find that guy in a draft either.  It may come via a trade or a free agent too not unlike Tannelhill did for the Titans.  If you listen to his end of the year presser he gets it but he also gets that you can’t just force a move because you need the QB of the future.  

Hes said that all along and I genuinely like his approach. I believe Luck set us back a decade but that's the hand Ballard was dealt.

 

My argument is that I dont see a functional difference between resigning Rivers or just taking a shot.  If Chris is going to postpone long term QB decisions until 2022 I'd almost rather take the potential draft position starting Eason (I do consider a veteran signing like Stafford to be a long term decision btw).

 

After watching this year I simply don't believe a combination of Reichs playcalling and Rivers physical capability can win a championship. 

 

I'd gladly admit I was wrong if a championship was delivered, but another 1 year stop gap just isnt my preference.

[GoColts8818]

31 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

Hes said that all along and I genuinely like his approach. I believe Luck set us back a decade but that's the hand Ballard was dealt.

 

My argument is that I dont see a functional difference between resigning Rivers or just taking a shot.  If Chris is going to postpone long term QB decisions until 2022 I'd almost rather take the potential draft position starting Eason (I do consider a veteran signing like Stafford to be a long term decision btw).

 

After watching this year I simply don't believe a combination of Reichs playcalling and Rivers physical capability can win a championship. 

 

I'd gladly admit I was wrong if a championship was delivered, but another 1 year stop gap just isnt my preference.

He didn’t say he wouldn’t address the position this year.  He left his options open.  Say a guy he like slips to like number 15 Ballard would probably really consider trading up to go get him.  He also says they scout every QB in the league.  If he finds one he likes he would probably look into a trade for them.  All he’s saying is he isn’t going to go get a guy just to get a guy which is the right move.   
 

Also you need to take your personal feelings out of it when talking about about what Ballard will do, and I don’t mean this in mean way, because they dont matter in terms of how Ballard feels or what he’s going to do.  That’s true for everyone here so please don’t take that as a personal shot because it’s not.  If you listen to Ballard he does think Reich’s play calling and Rivers play can win a Super Bowl. It’s perfectly fine to disagree with him on that but that won’t change how he sees it.  He did say while he would like Rivers back they would evaluate him and the fact he’s 39 years old will play into that.  
 

I think Ballard made it clear he’d love to have the future guy in here this off-season he wants it just like anyone of us.  He doesn’t want to have to keep finding a QB year-to-year but he will also tell you it’s better to do that than to force a guy into that role you don’t really believe in and set your franchise back for five years at least.  
 

Also it’s thanks to Ballard and Reich that Luck didn’t set the franchise back 10 years.  They got this team back into the playoffs 16 months after their franchise QB retired out of no where.  That’s pretty darn good.  If they weren’t good at their jobs this team could have turned into the Jags or Jets.  
 

I get it Rivers is far from perfect but the numbers don’t lie the offense was really good this year and Rivers was a large part of that reason.  He’s a large reason they went from 7-9 to 11-5.  So I don’t think the Colts are going to be quick to show him the door if he wants to play next year.  I also think if they bring him back it’s not going to stop Ballard from looking for the future QB.  IE if the scenarios present themselves like I suggested earlier in this post I think he would still make them even if they bring Rivers back.  

[Sumo63]

32 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

He didn’t say he wouldn’t address the position this year.  He left his options open.  Say a guy he like slips to like number 15 Ballard would probably really consider trading up to go get him.  He also says they scout every QB in the league.  If he finds one he likes he would probably look into a trade for them.  All he’s saying is he isn’t going to go get a guy just to get a guy which is the right move.   
 

Also you need to take your personal feelings out of it when talking about about what Ballard will do, and I don’t mean this in mean way, because they dont matter in terms of how Ballard feels or what he’s going to do.  That’s true for everyone here so please don’t take that as a personal shot because it’s not.  If you listen to Ballard he does think Reich’s play calling and Rivers play can win a Super Bowl. It’s perfectly fine to disagree with him on that but that won’t change how he sees it.  He did say while he would like Rivers back they would evaluate him and the fact he’s 39 years old will play into that.  
 

I think Ballard made it clear he’d love to have the future guy in here this off-season he wants it just like anyone of us.  He doesn’t want to have to keep finding a QB year-to-year but he will also tell you it’s better to do that than to force a guy into that role you don’t really believe in and set your franchise back for five years at least.  
 

Also it’s thanks to Ballard and Reich that Luck didn’t set the franchise back 10 years.  They got this team back into the playoffs 16 months after their franchise QB retired out of no where.  That’s pretty darn good.  If they weren’t good at their jobs this team could have turned into the Jags or Jets.  
 

I get it Rivers is far from perfect but the numbers don’t lie the offense was really good this year and Rivers was a large part of that reason.  He’s a large reason they went from 7-9 to 11-5.  So I don’t think the Colts are going to be quick to show him the door if he wants to play next year.  I also think if they bring him back it’s not going to stop Ballard from looking for the future QB.  IE if the scenarios present themselves like I suggested earlier in this post I think he would still make them even if they bring Rivers back.  

Yea Reich and Ballard are rad, no argument there.  I'd say I'm just boiling it to the two basic options of not addressing the position this year. Rivers or the bench (given we might be arguing different points as of now).

 

I think it might be fair to say that by midseason 2021 it's just as likely that Eason will be over performing as it is to say Rivers will be under performing.  Theres just no functional difference imo...

 

Of course Ballard and Reich will shoot the moon praising a future HOF qb.  The league doesnt publicaly disgrace anyone.  That doesn't make retaining Rivers a better decision than any other if they're not going to actively and aggressively persue the position this year.  It is not necessarily bad it's just neutral, at this point in Ballard's tenure I see neutral as harmful to him and the franchise.

 

Believe me when I say my personal feelings are totally out of it. I may have worded something poorly previously, but my intention is to state an objective opinion. 

 

Of course all options are open and I believe Ballard is going to adhere to his values.  Given what WE know though, I'm saying if its Rivers or the bench, 2021 I'd take the bench.  

[GoColts8818]

3 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

Yea Reich and Ballard are rad, no argument there.  I'd say I'm just boiling it to the two basic options of not addressing the position this year. Rivers or the bench (given we might be arguing different points as of now).

 

I think it might be fair to say that by midseason 2021 it's just as likely that Eason will be over performing as it is to say Rivers will be under performing.  Theres just no functional difference imo...

 

Of course Ballard and Reich will shoot the moon praising a future HOF qb.  The league doesnt publicaly disgrace anyone.  That doesn't make retaining Rivers a better decision than any other if they're not going to actively and aggressively persue the position this year.  It is not necessarily bad it's just neutral, at this point in Ballard's tenure I see neutral as harmful to him and the franchise.

 

Believe me when I say my personal feelings are totally out of it. I may have worded something poorly previously, but my intention is to state an objective opinion. 

 

Of course all options are open and I believe Ballard is going to adhere to his values.  Given what WE know though, I'm saying if its Rivers or the bench, 2021 I'd take the bench.  

Well Rivers numbers this past year are the largest argument for keeping him.  He was really good this year as was the Colts offense.  They put up at least 24 points a game the last seven games of the year.  Despite what some were saying the offense was humming most of the year.  
 

The truth is we are having to adjust to life with out one of the most elite QBs in the league something the Colts haven’t had to deal with since 1997 when they had Harbaugh.  Much like that team they aren’t trying to build a team where the elite QB has to carry they team.  They want a team like they had this year where the offense is run first and you have a QB who can make timely plays.  More times than not this year that’s what Rivers gave them.  
 

I’ll be the first to say Rivers is probably at most a one more year answer.  However, he’s a viable option for the coming season based on how he performed this past year.  He gave the Colts exactly what they wanted last year.  That’s why Reich and Ballard are so on board with him.  All you have to do is go back to Jacoby to see what a difference competent QB play made for the offense.  
 

Now I don’t think the Colts are all in on Rivers for next year and nor should they be as he hasn’t committed to playing next year.  I think Ballard is going to do what he said in his presser evaluate everything and bring in the best QB he can find and realistically get.  If it’s a guy like Stafford he might consider the QB position addressed at least for the next five years or so.  If it’s a guy like Rivers he’s going to keep looking for the QB of the future.  That’s where the draft comes in and I think his comment about a little luck comes in.  He admitted a QB probably isn’t going to be there at 21 but if a guy he likes starts falling he might very well move up to get him and have him sit behind Rivers for a year and continue to develop Eason as a back up.  
 

The other plus to keeping Rivers for another year is if you can’t find the QB of the future you can now use your first round pick to address another major need on this team like left tackle or pass rusher.  
 

Also just because he doesn’t think Eason is the guy this year doesn’t mean he’s saying he never will be.  I think he’s saying they don’t really know much about Eason yet and with no pre-season it’s easy to understand why.  He’s going to get a chance this year, hopefully, to show what he can do in the pre-season.  If the Colts like what they see he could very well find himself in the mix for QB of the future.  
 

Anyway long story short i think Ballard pretty much just said he’s leaving all options on the table and there is a lot of options and he’s not going to force himself into taking the QB of the future in this draft just because they want one.  He’s going to find the right guy and until he does he’s going to put a suitable starter on the field that gives this team a chance to win.  So like I said this is going to require some patience from fans.  He might find that guy this off-season he might not.  What we can all rest assured on though is that he’s looking and when he decides this guys the future he’s going to really believe it and it’s going to have been well scouted and given Ballard’s track record that’s probably good news for us.  

[Architects08]

What Is everyone's opinion on Hurts? If the Eagles GM is adamant on keeping Wentz maybe Hurts is available? I haven't watched much of him but the little I did see he was solid and could make plays with his legs. Just a random thought.

[GoColts8818]

9 minutes ago, Architects08 said:

What Is everyone's opinion on Hurts? If the Eagles GM is adamant on keeping Wentz maybe Hurts is available? I haven't watched much of him but the little I did see he was solid and could make plays with his legs. Just a random thought.

I’d be open to it and I am sure Ballard will do his research on him and if he thinks he be the guy he will probably call the Eagles and at least see what price tag would be for a trade. I am also sure that Frank may pick his old boss’s brain about Hurts.  

[conklincolt]

On 1/15/2021 at 8:59 PM, danlhart87 said:

Nothing you said here makes any sense 

Sorry, in the 4th round Easton, he's a qb but he never plays, so why draft and pay ?  So do we draft another QB then don't play him?

 

[conklincolt]

On 1/15/2021 at 8:53 PM, danlhart87 said:

There is absolutely no way of knowing that for sure

true, but logical. The qb still needs to be standing when throwing, and someone has to catch passes. And you have to score more points than the team your playing, no matter how good the QB is.  I don't see that with the jets or gag's  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Does anyone have curiosity why the colts didn’t want Jordan Love? He could of sat behind Rivers a year or two. They would only of had to give up like a 4th round pick.  Did he nor interview well? Did they just want to upgrade the offense for Rivers? Makes me very curious. He was there to be had pretty easily. 

[danlhart87]

20 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Does anyone have curiosity why the colts didn’t want Jordan Love? He could of sat behind Rivers a year or two. They would only of had to give up like a 4th round pick.  Did he nor interview well? Did they just want to upgrade the offense for Rivers? Makes me very curious. He was there to be had pretty easily. 

I think if he fell to them at 34 they would have strongly considered it but you also have to remember if they traded up from 34 there's a chance Colts don't get Pittman Jr or Taylor. 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

23 minutes ago, danlhart87 said:

I think if he fell to them at 34 they would have strongly considered it but you also have to remember if they traded up from 34 there's a chance Colts don't get Pittman Jr or Taylor. 

Yeah but looking back we had Mack. We really could of passed on Taylor. Just makes me curious. They clearly didn’t think he was the guy.

 

I was just watching this video on the eagles. He thinks they need to just cut ties with Wentz. He says his confidence is just shaken. It’s going to be hard to succeed with a statue of Foles and hurts breathing down his next. He says they can’t go into next season with both on the roster. He does mention the best place is to reunite him with Reich.

 

HE 

[danlhart87]

1 minute ago, Chloe6124 said:

Yeah but looking back we had Mack. We really could of passed on Taylor. Just makes me curious. They clearly didn’t think he was the guy.

 

I was just watching this video on the eagles. He thinks they need to just cut ties with Wentz. He says his confidence is just shaken. It’s going to be hard to succeed with a statue of Foles and hurts breathing down his next. He says they can’t go into next season with both on the roster. He does mention the best place is to reunite him with Reich.

 

 

Most i would give up is a 5th anything higher and its no deal plus his salary doesn't help 

[ColtsBlueFL]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Does anyone have curiosity why the colts didn’t want Jordan Love? He could of sat behind Rivers a year or two.

 

From all the banter and reports back then, the Colts/Ballard was keenly interested and often tied to him. But at what cost to get him?

 

Quote

They would only of had to give up like a 4th round pick.  

 

No, I believe you are truly mistaken here.  The Packers swapped their 1st round pick at #30 pick and added their pick #136 in a trade with the Dolphins to move up just 4 spots to pick at #26 and take Love.  The Colts did not have a first round pick (traded #13 for DeForest Buckner) at all to take him or trade down with, nor willing to move a lot of other draft capital to move ahead of Green Bay to get Jordan Love. End of story.

 

Quote

Did he nor interview well? Did they just want to upgrade the offense for Rivers? Makes me very curious. He was there to be had pretty easily. 

 

No, not at all. This likely would also have been very costly draft pick wise for the Colts to achieve.

 

BTW, Dolphins packaged that #136 pick along with their #141 pick on back to the Houston Texans for their pick at #111 (and Phins took OL Solomon Kindley) ... which the Texans had previously received from the Dolphins in the L. Tunsil/K. Stills trade. And at #30 the Phins took CB Noah Igbinoghene. The Dolphins got those two players just because the Pack wanted to move up 4 spots from #30 to #26 to draft Jordan Love. {Even though they already had Aaron Rodgers!}

 

There's no way the Colts or any other team could have taken Love just by trading a 4th.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

The Packers only had to give up a fourth. So we could of got him for a fourth and maybe another pick. Or a third plus something. It was right there and would not of been a issue.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

I don’t think Ballard would of took love in the second either. If he was the guy then that was stupid not to move up a few spots back into the first. There had to be something they didn’t like. I hope it wasn’t a mistake.

[Defjamz26]

I’m just thinking about something. If Rivers retires and Jacoby leaves, what do you do at QB? 
 

Idk if Detroit will have the chance to or wants to draft a QB. So Stafford may not be an option. I can’t see Atlanta parting with Ryan either. Darnold may be an option but he’ll have other suitors so that’s not a guarantee either.

 

This could get really interesting.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

5 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’m just thinking about something. If Rivers retires and Jacoby leaves, what do you do at QB? 
 

Idk if Detroit will have the chance to or wants to draft a QB. So Stafford may not be an option. I can’t see Atlanta parting with Ryan either. Darnold may be an option but he’ll have other suitors so that’s not a guarantee either.

 

This could get really interesting.

If Rivers decides to retire and all the other veteran options are off the table because teams don’t want to trade them expect Jacoby to sign for another year and be the starter on a very short leash.

 

[Defjamz26]

40 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

If Rivers decides to retire and all the other veteran options are off the table because teams don’t want to trade them expect Jacoby to sign for another year and be the starter on a very short leash.

 

I really don’t see how you could do that. You already decided he wasn’t the guy. Cant just change your mind. It would be seen as an obvious stalling tactic.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

22 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

I really don’t see how you could do that. You already decided he wasn’t the guy. Cant just change your mind. It would be seen as an obvious stalling tactic.

Well if there are no other options what do you do. If no other veterans are available they could sign him a year. Then create a competition with Eason.  Start Jacoby but have him on a short leash. Go ahead and start Eason and if it fails you have a high draft pick. My guess is they would bring Jacoby back and give him another try.

 

I forgot about Winston. He could be a guy we at least look at.

[Defjamz26]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Well if there are no other options what do you do. If no other veterans are available they could sign him a year. Then create a competition with Eason.  Start Jacoby but have him on a short leash. Go ahead and start Eason and if it fails you have a high draft pick. My guess is they would bring Jacoby back and give him another try.

 

I forgot about Winston. He could be a guy we at least look at.

That all depends on if Jacoby wants to stay. He wants to be a starter somewhere,  which probably won’t happen unless an injury, but someone might offer him more to be a backup/potential bridge QB.

 

I was thinking what the strategy would be if that happened. No Rivers, no Brissett, and no veterans available. What’s the worst case scenario plan for Ballard?

[danlhart87]

11 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That all depends on if Jacoby wants to stay. He wants to be a starter somewhere,  which probably won’t happen unless an injury, but someone might offer him more to be a backup/potential bridge QB.

 

I was thinking what the strategy would be if that happened. No Rivers, no Brissett, and no veterans available. What’s the worst case scenario plan for Ballard?

if that happened you get aggressive in draft trade up for QB

[ColtsBlueFL]

9 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

The Packers only had to give up a fourth. So we could of got him for a fourth and maybe another pick. Or a third plus something. It was right there and would not of been a issue.

No,  I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. The Packers and Dolphins also swapped their round 1 pick  positions (Packers were at #30 and the Dolphins had another round 1 pick at #26) and THEN Green Bay added the other pick(#136)  to the deal. It wasn't just we'll give you our pick at #136 so we can enter round 1 again at #26 and take the QB we want... and also keep our spot at #30.

 

No, a team also had to give the Dolphins their 1st round pick slot... and the Colts just didn't have one because they gave that away to get Buckner. But if the didn't trade it for Buckner, would have the ability to take Love at #13.

 

In essence, to give our early second round pick would have likely required a (late?) 3rd as well, but Miami already had a ton of picks at the top of the draft (and in total!) and was looking to increase higher round picks, not necessarily trade down for more picks.

 

 

[danlhart87]

Saw this on reddit 

 

[#12.]

Random thought.... It's only been a year and 4 months since Luck retired? 

 

With everything that's happened in the world over the past year, it feels like it was 20 years ago.

[conklincolt]

10 hours ago, Defjamz26 said:

I’m just thinking about something. If Rivers retires and Jacoby leaves, what do you do at QB? 
 

Idk if Detroit will have the chance to or wants to draft a QB. So Stafford may not be an option. I can’t see Atlanta parting with Ryan either. Darnold may be an option but he’ll have other suitors so that’s not a guarantee either.

 

This could get really interesting.

Play Easton for starters. He must be pretty good, colts spent a 4th round pick for him. Use him or lose him,or don't pick him at all.Should have grabbed a corner back instead we actually used this year.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, conklincolt said:

Play Easton for starters. He must be pretty good, colts spent a 4th round pick for him. Use him or lose him,or don't pick him at all.Should have grabbed a corner back instead we actually used this year.

Sheena Easton was hot back in the day 

[conklincolt]

 Sorry,   we actually could have used this year,instead of a bench warmer. 

2 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Sheena Easton was hot back in the day 

 

[conklincolt]

well hell, play her then. lol

 

[Colt.45]

1 hour ago, conklincolt said:

Play Easton for starters. He must be pretty good, colts spent a 4th round pick for him. Use him or lose him,or don't pick him at all.Should have grabbed a corner back instead we actually used this year.

That's not how the draft works...

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Kind of a random thought after I saw Winston on that trick play last night. Wonder if they would look at him as a option. Can he handle Reichs offense? 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

9 hours ago, ColtsBlueFL said:

No,  I'm sorry to inform you that you are wrong here. The Packers and Dolphins also swapped their round 1 pick  positions (Packers were at #30 and the Dolphins had another round 1 pick at #26) and THEN Green Bay added the other pick(#136)  to the deal. It wasn't just we'll give you our pick at #136 so we can enter round 1 again at #26 and take the QB we want... and also keep our spot at #30.

 

No, a team also had to give the Dolphins their 1st round pick slot... and the Colts just didn't have one because they gave that away to get Buckner. But if the didn't trade it for Buckner, would have the ability to take Love at #13.

 

In essence, to give our early second round pick would have likely required a (late?) 3rd as well, but Miami already had a ton of picks at the top of the draft (and in total!) and was looking to increase higher round picks, not necessarily trade down for more picks.

 

 

But we had a high second pick. The team swapping with us would only been moving down a few spots.

[TimetobringDfence!]

Would Watson be worth four 1st rounders. I would be willing to give Houston our 2021, 22, 23, and 24 1st round pick to land a young franchise QB. Ballard does good enough with draft picks to still keep the team solid. 

[danlhart87]

6 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Would Watson be worth four 1st rounders. I would be willing to give Houston our 2021, 22, 23, and 24 1st round pick to land a young franchise QB. Ballard does good enough with draft picks to still keep the team solid. 

I would offer 3 1s and the maniac

[The Fish]

7 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Would Watson be worth four 1st rounders. I would be willing to give Houston our 2021, 22, 23, and 24 1st round pick to land a young franchise QB. Ballard does good enough with draft picks to still keep the team solid. 

4 firsts for a 25 year old QB who's hovering around a top 5 QB..

 

I wouldn't do it. But lot's would and the reasoning is good. 4 is 1 or 2 too many- that's doing what the Texans did to cause this situation they're in. 

[chad72]

20 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Does anyone have curiosity why the colts didn’t want Jordan Love? He could of sat behind Rivers a year or two. They would only of had to give up like a 4th round pick.  Did he nor interview well? Did they just want to upgrade the offense for Rivers? Makes me very curious. He was there to be had pretty easily. 

 

They thought he might fall to him but the Packers moved ahead and got him. We were obviously not too high on him, otherwise we would have made a move, IMO.

 

Other than a vet like Stafford or Carr, our best bet is to bring back Rivers, but I truly do not sense the urge in Rivers to play as long as Brees or Brady, just my hunch. 

[richard pallo]

4 minutes ago, TimetobringDfence! said:

Would Watson be worth four 1st rounders. I would be willing to give Houston our 2021, 22, 23, and 24 1st round pick to land a young franchise QB. Ballard does good enough with draft picks to still keep the team solid. 

Four 1st rounders looks impressive but Houston doesn't have a 1st or 2nd this year.  If I'm Houston I want more picks from this class to help replenish the roster.  If I remember correctly Ditka gave up an entire draft class to move up and draft Ricky Williams.  If a team wanted to get their attention that kind of offer would do it (all seven picks from this years class). You still might have to give up a player or future pick but who knows.  A team like the Colts could afford that for one year.  No draft class to pay would free up a little more money.  We could fill any holes on the team through FA and non drafted college players.  We already know there will be a lot of players getting released and we have the cap space.  So this is another bold way to get the prize.  

[Defjamz26]

12 hours ago, danlhart87 said:

if that happened you get aggressive in draft trade up for QB

That would be interesting to see. Would be unprecedented for Ballard since he’s a self admitted hoarder of draft picks and has never traded up in the 1st. I wonder if he would really do it.

[danlhart87]

3 minutes ago, Defjamz26 said:

That would be interesting to see. Would be unprecedented for Ballard since he’s a self admitted hoarder of draft picks and has never traded up in the 1st. I wonder if he would really do it.

That depends how the chips fall. if Lance and or Wilson slip past top 10 he would consider it. Smart move imo would be trade back for more picks and get Jones who I think will be there at the end. 

 

 

[danlhart87]