Are y'all still turn a blind eye to these coaches or what?

[DougDew]

49 minutes ago, Thunderbolt said:

We keep trading down to pick up additional picks in the draft, and the talent level diminishes big time when you do this.  To compound it all, when you try to develop players after drafting this low, it takes time and you end up like this....We're bottom feeders right now, blame it on Irsay and down....Need better products on the field..

Additionally, we haven't gotten a lot of impact from our last 4 first round draft picks (even longer than that), in part, because of the positions they play.  When you have a franchise QB talent....not the guy you get at pick 20, but the guy who's worthy of number one... you don't have to be especially concerned about positional value.  The entire roster can be seen as a supporting cast to the QB.

 

When you don't have a franchise QB...who knows if we will ever get one again...you have to be more concerned about getting great talent dispersed throughout various impactful positions.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Additionally, we haven't gotten a lot of impact from our last 4 first round draft picks, in part, because of the positions they play.  When you have a franchise QB talent....not the guy you get at pick 20, but the guy who's worthy of number one... you don't have to be especially concerned about positional value.  The entire roster can be seen as a supporting cast to the QB.

 

When you don't have a franchise QB...who knows if we will ever get one again...you have to be more concerned about getting impactful talent dispersed throughout various positions.

I disagree with that Nelson has made a huge impact as has Kelly.  I agree with you they don’t play sexy positions but they have made big impacts.

[Ratking]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

Frank is the head coach.  He is ultimately responsible.

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Frank is the head coach.  He is ultimately responsible.

I get that in reality just like he is over the offense too. Having said that Eberflus is the D coordinator. If the HC is going to get blamed for everything than what is the purpose of even having any other coaches on the sideline then? Why did Wade Phillips get all the credit for Denver's defense when they won the SB in 2015 and Kubiak got 0 credit for the D. Same for Buddy Ryan in 1985 with the Bears. It is Eberflus' defense unless Reich over rules him on a play call. I doubt Reich even makes any calls regarding the defense, he does on offense though as he has even said so. 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

3 hours ago, Catloaf said:

I don't think Frank is a problem.  It's our depth, injuries, mediocre QB, and poor zone D that is the biggest problem (WR fits into depth point I mentioned).

 

Tank for Tua?  Shove for Love?

i dont think we have to tank, it will happen on its own

[DougDew]

Just now, GoColts8818 said:

I disagree with that Nelson has made a huge impact as has Kelly.  I agree with you they don’t play sexy positions but they have made big impacts.

Our oline is much better than it was, and it serves as a great base by which skilled position players could make plays. It gives the QB and RB and receivers the opportunities.   

 

Look at it this way, our oline has been completely healthy this year and we're going from about 6-2 with our QB and oline to what looks like 6-10 with the same QB and oline.  How impactful can it be by itself.

[Myles]

8 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I get that in reality just like he is over the offense too. Having said that Eberflus is the D coordinator. If the HC is going to get blamed for everything than what is the purpose of even having any other coaches on the sideline then? Why did Wade Phillips get all the credit for Denver's defense when they won the SB in 2015 and Kubiak got 0 credit for the D. Same for Buddy Ryan in 1985 with the Bears. It is Eberflus' defense unless Reich over rules him on a play call. I doubt Reich even makes any calls regarding the defense, he does on offense though as he has even said so. 

I understand that, but it's not like this is the first game people noticed the porous zone D.  Reich gets some blame.  Of course Eberflus should also get his.  This was embarrassing to hear the announcers rip the defensive play calling.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Our oline is much better than it was, and it serves as a great base by which skilled position players could make plays. It gives the QB and RB and receivers the opportunities.   

 

Look at it this way, our oline has been completely healthy this year and we're going from about 6-2 with our QB and oline to what looks like 6-10 with the same QB and oline.  How impactful can it be by itself.

They aren’t a whole team by themselves.  It’s like when TY was healthy and the Colts were going 8-8.  How impactful was he by himself?   

[colts_100nascar17fan]

All I have 2 say is the new kicker looked good, yeah 1 miss fg barely but atleast all his kicked looked like normal kicks not low line drive knuckle balls or missing by 40 feet left.

[Ratking]

4 minutes ago, Myles said:

I understand that, but it's not like this is the first game people noticed the porous zone D.  Reich gets some blame.  Of course Eberflus should also get his.  This was embarrassing to hear the announcers rip the defensive play calling.

 

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

3 hours ago, VaAllDay757 said:

How? Ya sin is known for playing man coverage...desir is better in man coverage just stick with the wr it's not that hard

hooker got an in the right spot int off a deflection but he had a horrible game playing to far off, he seemed to have no instinct for the ball at all, we need an impact fs hooker is not living up to to the hype, is that on him or the coach

[Myles]

Just now, Ratking said:

 

So you are fine with that poorly coached game?

[Stephen]

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

D play calling is #1

Passing under TBs average yards given up, is #2.

I do this loss isn't  a bad thing anyway.   Gives us better draft position. Titans  look like team to beat in the division  going forward 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Everyone can talk all they want about the offense struggling in the fourth. This is not the first time Reich goes away from what worked all game. This is probably 50% on Reich and his play calling in fourth quarters.

[Ratking]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

So you are fine with that poorly coached game?

Give Frank a healthy TY, any top 15 QB, and any half decent #2 wideout (could be Pascal next year) ....he will be blowing teams doors off. 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, Defjamz26 said:

It’s not the best talent but it’s good enough. The problem is the scheming. He keeps running zone and it always gets shredded. The Colts secondary has been much more effective in man coverage. And you want an elite player on our D? Darius Leonard. Houston.

Keep going.  Keep naming drafted players  who r  keepers moving forward? 

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, a06cc said:

I have no clue why this team can’t stay healthy. Health kills up year after year. The person responsible for this should be on the hot seat.

Mayb it's because we play under sized players on D.  As the season moves along it takes its toll

[Ratking]

4 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Everyone can talk all they want about the offense struggling in the fourth. This is not the first time Reich goes away from what worked all game. This is probably 50% on Reich and his play calling in fourth quarters.

His qb needs training wheels and his offense only has one wideout (pascal). It's prolly hard for Frank to be creative with the burning trash pile they call the Colts active roster. 

[Myles]

4 minutes ago, Ratking said:

Give Frank a healthy TY, any top 15 QB, and any half decent #2 wideout (could be Pascal next year) ....he will be blowing teams doors off. 

Will his defense still suck?

[NewColtsFan]

1 hour ago, DougDew said:

LOL.    You're still looking at it as a comparison of GMs.  Who signed who,   Who did what, then but...but...but.  You'll probably see the Colts through that prism until eternity.

 

I'm talking about trend lines from Luck's rookie year, and how it was pretty good then, maybe better the next, but then went downhill (which...duh... that would be under RG).

 

Yes.  I'd take a receiving corps of TY, Wayne and Donnie Avery.  I'd take Cory Redding, and the old vet NTs we've rostered over the years (Even Al Woods) .  I'd like to have Vontae at CB, Bethea at FS, and even Laron Landry, who was pretty good when he cared about football.  We had Robert Mathis.  Erik Walden was a good player, as was RJF.  Our LBs stunk, though.

 

I thought Ahmad Bradshaw was pretty good.

 

I'd love to see what Reich and Eberflus would've done with those guys, with Luck at QB.

 

Too bad we couldn't have a few of our young studs mixed in with vets like that.

 

Sorry, Doug....     this isn't a ME thing.   This is a YOU thing.   It always has been.

 

In 2015 and 2016, the team was getting older, less athletic,  less skilled, less talented.   Fans here didn't want to believe it because in 2014 the Colts went to the AFC Championship.   Luck got hurt and missed a half of `15.    People didn't care and blamed Pagano.    Another 8-8 season in '16 and fans blamed Pagano.

 

When Ballard came in in 17 he publicly said this is a complete rebuild.   The NFL world said the Colts had as few talented players as any team.    Few here wanted to believe it.    So, when the team went 4-12,  it was Pagano's fault.   But it was Grigson's.   Ballard inherited a mess.   Pagano did the best he could under bad circumstances.

 

So, your comment about Pagano did less with more is not supported by facts.  The players you mentioned were around in '12-'14.   Most were gone in 15-17.   Pagano got the most out of the team in 12, 13 and 14.    He didn't become dumb overnight.   When the talent disappeared,  the record went south.    It's not hard to figure it out.

 

[Ratking]

1 minute ago, Myles said:

Will his defense still suck?

It may. Irsay hired Frank to coach the offense and to be the Colts media figure head. He didn't hire him to coach defense. 

[Moosejawcolt]

9 minutes ago, Ratking said:

Give Frank a healthy TY, any top 15 QB, and any half decent #2 wideout (could be Pascal next year) ....he will be blowing teams doors off. 

U mean like Tomlin has with the Steelers!?!?!?

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

1 hour ago, Thunderbolt said:

We keep trading down to pick up additional picks in the draft, and the talent level diminishes big time when you do this.  To compound it all, when you try to develop players after drafting this low, it takes time and you end up like this....We're bottom feeders right now, blame it on Irsay and down....Need better products on the field..

i agree ballards method of trading down and cheap free agents is bring down our talent level

[DougDew]

18 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

They aren’t a whole team by themselves.  It’s like when TY was healthy and the Colts were going 8-8.  How impactful was he by himself?   

All positions are important. 

 

Lets put it this way.  How often is a olineman credited with making a play that changes a game, compared to a WR making a great catch, a RB making a great run, a DB an interception, a LB or DT a big sack.  A QB making a great throw.

 

In the AFCCG, Jeff Saturday made a game changing play when he pancaked Vince Worfolk, allowing Addai to score the game winning TD.  That highlight as been played often.

 

Its just not done given the nature of the position.  The Colts lack, and have lacked for quite a long time, impactful players at impactful positions, and its gotten worse over the past 6 years.  That's not to say the oline is not important.

  

[VaAllDay757]

20 minutes ago, DEFENSE said:

hooker got an in the right spot int off a deflection but he had a horrible game playing to far off, he seemed to have no instinct for the ball at all, we need an impact fs hooker is not living up to to the hype, is that on him or the coach

Yeah he played like trash today but there was alot of confusion today for some reason that's the coach's job to make sure they know what play to run

[VaAllDay757]

55 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

It's not?  Give me all of your stretch play knowledge and the ease of executing it

Whatever the name of the play is called...call it out and make sure you call the right protection and hand it off....not that hard

[GRUMPY OLD MAN]

2 hours ago, GoColts8818 said:

I like Willis and both Walker and Okereke.  I don’t know if either will becomes a stud but I think they are the kinda guys you need on teams when you can’t have superstars every where.  Rock is getting better.  Turay was really coming along before he got hurt.  

 

The two guys ive been the most disappointed in are Hooker and Desir.  Maybe it’s just injuries for Desir and maybe Hooker is better than I give him credit for but to this point I think he’s been a disappointment.

hooker seems lost

[GoColts8818]

Just now, DougDew said:

All positions are important. 

 

Lets put it this way.  How often is a olineman credited with making a play that changes a game, compared to a WR making a great catch, a RB making a great run, a DB an interception, a LB or DT a big sack.  A QB making a great throw.

 

In the AFCCG, Jeff Saturday made a game changing play when he pancaked Vince Worfolk, allowing Addai to score the game winning TD.  That highlight as been played often.

 

Its just not done given the nature of the position.  The Colts lack, and have lacked for quite a long time, impactful players at impactful positions, and its gotten worse over the past 6 years.  That's not to say the oline is not important.

  

Right like I said it’s not sexy but without question they have made an impact.  

 

I they do have some impact guys in Hilton, Mack, Leonard, Moore, and, Houston.  Turay was heading that way before he got hurt.  They had one last year in Ebron and clearly expected him to be one again this year but was not nearly as much as one.  They also have some other rock solid ones in Walker, Doyle, and Smith.  They had another one last year in Desir but he’s taken a step back this year due to injures.  I also think they have another one developing in Willis.  You need those guys on a team to win but I agree they need more impactful ones.  

[DougDew]

21 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

Right like I said it’s not sexy but without question they have made an impact.  

 

I they do have some impact guys in Hilton, Mack, Leonard, Moore, and, Houston.  Turay was heading that way before he got hurt.  They had one last year in Ebron and clearly expected him to be one again this year but was not nearly as much as one.  They also have some other rock solid ones in Walker, Doyle, and Smith.  They had another one last year in Desir but he’s taken a step back this year due to injures.  I also think they have another one developing in Willis.  You need those guys on a team to win but I agree they need more impactful ones.  

All good players make an impact.  Its a matter of which positions make more impact than others.  This isn't news.  In fact, its common knowledge.

 

Besides, I was talking about not getting much impact from our last 4 first round picks, only two of them were olinemen. 

 

And if you want to go back further, I would say that we haven't gotten much from the first rounders besides Luck, and AC before that.  We have to go back so far to find anybody that whomever we would have drafted would probably have retired by now.  

 

Its the first round impact, or the lack of it.  For years.  That's why we suck.  Luck made up for it.  We won't have Luck again, IMO.

 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

All good players make an impact.  Its a matter of which positions make more impact than others.  This isn't news.  In fact, its common knowledge.

 

Besides, I was talking about not getting much impact from our last 4 first round picks, only two of them were olinemen. 

 

And if you want to go back further, I would say that we haven't gotten much from the first rounders besides Luck, and AC before that.  We have to go back so far to find anybody that whomever we would have drafted would probably have retired by now.  

 

Its the first round impact, or the lack of it.  For years.  That's why we suck.  Luck made up for it.  We won't have Luck again, IMO.

 

I agree that the draft misses of Grigson are still being felt.  The only one I’ve been overly disappointed in the last four years is Hooker but that may just be a me thing.  This year they pretty much didn’t have one.  Sweat who would have probably been the pick hasn’t done much this season unless I am missing something.  Rock has been about what you would expect for a rookie corner.  He’s had struggles but he’s been coming along.  

[Moosejawcolt]

1 hour ago, GoColts8818 said:

I disagree with that Nelson has made a huge impact as has Kelly.  I agree with you they don’t play sexy positions but they have made big impacts.

Last year.....yes but not so much this year. I put a lot of blame on the run game/ O line not being able to close out games.  We have a ton of  assets in the O line and they r not delivering.

[DougDew]

5 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I agree that the draft misses of Grigson are still being felt.  The only one I’ve been overly disappointed in the last four years is Hooker but that may just be a me thing.  This year they pretty much didn’t have one.  Sweat who would have probably been the pick hasn’t done much this season unless I am missing something.  Rock has been about what you would expect for a rookie corner.  He’s had struggles but he’s been coming along.  

Last spring we had no 1st rounder.  Its hard to get an impact from a first round player when you don't have a first round player.

 

If you're saying that it was a good decision for the future, that's another thing.

 

I'm saying the reason we are 6 and 7 today, is because we have not gotten much impact from the capital you're supposed to get impact from.

[jvan1973]

32 minutes ago, VaAllDay757 said:

Whatever the name of the play is called...call it out and make sure you call the right protection and hand it off....not that hard

So,   no first hand knowledge of how the play should be run.   Yet you claim it's easy.    About par for the course around here

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, DougDew said:

Last spring we had no 1st rounder.  Its hard to have an impact from a first round player when you don't have a first round player.

 

If you're saying that it was a good decision for the future, that's another thing.

 

I'm saying the reason we are 6 and 7 today, is because we have not gotten much impact from the capital you're supposed to get impact from.

The point I was making the point that the guy who would have probably been the first round pick has had no impact this season so I think the Colts did the right thing in not taking him.  I think Rock has had more of an impact than Sweat has this year.  

 

Like i just said i agree the misses of the Grigson era are still being felt.

[jvan1973]

2 minutes ago, DougDew said:

Last spring we had no 1st rounder.  Its hard to have an impact from a first round player when you don't have a first round player.

 

If you're saying that it was a good decision for the future, that's another thing.

 

I'm saying the reason we are 6 and 7 today, is because we have not gotten much impact from the capital you're supposed to get impact from.

We're 6 and 7 because the franchise qb retired.   Pretty simple stuff.   JB isn't nearly as good as Andrew

[jvan1973]

4 minutes ago, Moosejawcolt said:

Last year.....yes but not so much this year. I put a lot of blame on the run game/ O line not being able to close out games.  We have a ton of  assets in the O line and they r not delivering.

The qb retired.   Teams know JB can't beat them.  They sell out on the run.    Not difficult to see

[VaAllDay757]

2 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

So,   no first hand knowledge of how the play should be run.   Yet you claim it's easy.    About par for the course around here

Uh it should be ran the same way they do it in practice 

[DougDew]

4 minutes ago, jvan1973 said:

We're 6 and 7 because the franchise qb retired.   Pretty simple stuff.   JB isn't nearly as good as Andrew

I know.  And the rest of the team has been exposed, including starting last year's backup QB.

 

IMO, it shows just how much Luck carried the team.  I think other teams that have elite QBs also have several elite players at some positions.

 

Brady misses Gronk, but the drop off in NE offense is being blamed mainly on Brady.

[Blueblood23]

3 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

 

 

Except for Moore we were healthy today. We were without hooker and Geathers against KC.

Winston had a lot of yards against Hooker and Geathers today.

[jvan1973]

Just now, VaAllDay757 said:

Uh it should be ran the same way they do it in practice 

In practice they aren't playing against the second best run defense in football.    No plays are easy,   that's the bigger point