Week 8 impressions: Brissett

[Creekside]

7 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

 If I had all 22 I'd screenshot a few plays where he had plenty of time, had open guys up the seam, but attempted to check down or simply locked onto his first read.

 

 

You could do this with 3 or 4 plays from any QB in any NFL game on any Sunday. And it would only mean that the QB had a less than perfect game, as is always the case no matter who it is.

 

If you watched the game on TV, as most of us did, you cannot see the receivers downfield.

 

Did you watch on TV?

 

 

 

 

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

We are 3-0 in the second quarter of the season after being 2-2 the first. One more win and we have a 4-0 second quarter.

[EastStreet]

9 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Was that him or no one getting open. All around the offense struggled against a top 5 defense. We actually had more yards then Denver’s average.  Not every game is going to be pretty. Sometimes you have to win ugly. Just enjoy the win and stop over thinking it to much.

JB's average TTT is bottom 10 at 2.86. It's not just today vs Denver that he held the ball long. Sure Denver is responsible to an extent because they have a good pass D, but JB has consistently held the ball long this season. By contrast, Luck was top 10 TTT last year with the same or worse group of WRs and TEs. Not sure why it's so hard to admit that JB struggles going through progressions and holds onto the ball too long. Both the eye test and stats are pretty clear.

[jvan1973]

1 minute ago, EastStreet said:

JB's average TTT is bottom 10 at 2.86. It's not just today vs Denver that he held the ball long. Sure Denver is responsible to an extent because they have a good pass D, but JB has consistently held the ball long this season. By contrast, Luck was top 10 TTT last year with the same or worse group of WRs and TEs. Not sure why it's so hard to admit that JB struggles going through progressions and holds onto the ball too long. Both the eye test and stats are pretty clear.

You apparently have access to the all 22.  Show us the wide open wrs he isn't seeing

[EastStreet]

6 minutes ago, egg said:

 

You could do this with 3 or 4 plays from any QB in any NFL game on any Sunday. And it would only mean that the QB had a less than perfect game, as is always the case no matter who it is.

 

If you watched the game on TV, as most of us did, you cannot see the receivers downfield.

 

Did you watch on TV?

 

I could absolutely see open WRs/TEs up the seam. They weren't 50 yards deep, but they were 10 to 20 or more and running behind the D up field. I recommend DVRing the game so you can pause live, and rewatch.

[EastStreet]

1 minute ago, jvan1973 said:

You apparently have access to the all 22.  Show us the wide open wrs he isn't seeing

I just said in a previous post that I don't. If I did, I would happily provide.

 

[DownHillRunner]

Brissett did what he had to do today. The only reason people doubt him is because he's not a Lamar Jackson, Patrick Mahomes, type Quarterback and he doesn't need to be. 

[King Colt]

The OL was a disappointment during the entire game. I can see one man playing poorly but they were weak everywhere. I'm sure Reich was upset with their lack of effort.  Vinateri was scary again today. Going neck and neck with Houston for the next eight games requires mistakes be reduced to a bare minimum. 

[Sumo63]

The whole offense struggled today.  Our strength (o line) got handled quite a bit so it's no wonder obi-wan jacoby and the running game had an off day.  The whole team just looked flat, especially with vinnys miscues compounding the issue.  I'm wondering if a Reich has trouble getting these guys to focus on these "should win" games.  Colts have had a tendency to play down to the competition as far back as I can remember.  I was hoping Reich would be able to curb that a bit, and maybe he can, it's still a small sample size but oak and den concern me.  Glad it was a win, but they stole one today more than they earned it. Hope they dont celebrate too much, learn from it and don't have another performance like this for a long time (like early next season).  Just my $0.02. Looking forward to next week.  Go colts!

[Creekside]

40 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

 

I could absolutely see open WRs/TEs up the seam. They weren't 50 yards deep, but they were 10 to 20 or more and running behind the D up field. I recommend DVRing the game so you can pause live, and rewatch.

 

T

 

 

 

 

 

 

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 hour ago, Jdubu said:

Fair enough. So that’s why in the thread I’ve said I’d like to see the routes in the all22 version because we can’t see whether anyone is getting open and JB is missing them or if the guys are just being blanketed. That was my whole point because unless someone has the whole field viewpoint and are posting here, none of us know this answer. I just find it extremely Odd that only TY can shake loose and get open but no other receiver can. It may be that way. It may be the routes they draw up aren’t freeing these guys up, it may be that JB isn’t reading coverages correctly. It could be a whole host of things. We just don’t have the answers here. We can, or should be able to agree that outside of the last drive, JB was a flop today as a QB.  He certainly gets tons of credit for shaking off that near safety and hitting TY, that was huge throw. It doesn’t excuse the rest today just as Vinny hitting the winner doesn’t excuse his awful year. 
 

JB is a newbie generally speaking for live fire starting QB’s, he gets time to mature and grow the skills he will need. It’s not like I’m ready to gut him and toss him out but if he plays like this, he won’t be the long term answer here I’d bet. I certainly hope he succeeds, it’s better for us. Great guy too. 

"JB was a flop today as a QB", "Vinny hitting the winner doesn't excuse his awful year". No and no, we won that is all that matters. Thanks for playing. 

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, egg said:

 

This is a fact:

On TV, when the QB gets the ball on a pass play, the camera is on the QB and you can not see beyond 5-7 yards past the line of scrimmage while the QB has the ball.

 

 

I do not believe you when you say you see open WRs and TEs open 10 - 20 yards downfield while the QB has the ball and is surveying the field.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I was at the game up high and more times than not I saw Jacoby looking and looking and no one was open.  He’s not Luck he’s not going to force it which is why he has fewer turnovers.  It also means he’s going to have less completions down field.  

 

I think this team’s biggest need is another WR to go with TY.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Denver’s defense has only allowed a average of 240 yards this season. We had over 300. 

[2006Coltsbestever]

The more people continue to post silly stuff the more I will be here to mock it 

[shasta519]

2 hours ago, Chloe6124 said:

Anyone dumping on Jacoby look what the broncos have done. We actually did better.

 

 

I have been told here numerous times that yards are irrelevant.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

I have been told here numerous times that yards are irrelevant.

They actually are to an extent except when you gain 65 yards on the final drive to win the game like we did today. 

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

 

I have been told here numerous times that yards are irrelevant.

The only numbers that truly matter are 15-13 and 5-2.  The Colts are on the right side of both of them.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Getting DF back should help us in the middle of the field. Also even though Cain hasn’t been doing much maybe just taking his speed out of the game made it easier on the defense. You still have to account for his speed.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

Just now, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They actually are to an extent except when you gain 65 yards on the final drive to win the game like we did today. 

I laugh because it doesn’t matter if you get yards in the first quarter or the fourth. They all count the same.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, GoColts8818 said:

The only numbers that truly matter are 15-13 and 5-2.  The Colts are on the right side of both of them.

5-2 is the only number that matters. Nobody has a counter for that  

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

BTW KC Is getting hammered by GB.

[shasta519]

28 minutes ago, Sumo63 said:

The whole offense struggled today.  Our strength (o line) got handled quite a bit so it's no wonder obi-wan jacoby and the running game had an off day.  The whole team just looked flat, especially with vinnys miscues compounding the issue.  I'm wondering if a Reich has trouble getting these guys to focus on these "should win" games.  Colts have had a tendency to play down to the competition as far back as I can remember.  I was hoping Reich would be able to curb that a bit, and maybe he can, it's still a small sample size but oak and den concern me.  Glad it was a win, but they stole one today more than they earned it. Hope they dont celebrate too much, learn from it and don't have another performance like this for a long time (like early next season).  Just my $0.02. Looking forward to next week.  Go colts!

 

Good post. Prior to the game...I heard on a podcast that DEN was one of the top teams in the NFL at defending the short pass. I think that was a big factor.

[GoColts8818]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Getting DF back should help us in the middle of the field. Also even though Cain hasn’t been doing much maybe just taking his speed out of the game made it easier on the defense. You still have to account for his speed.

I think Cain is a non-factor because he’s yet to do anything meaningful in a real game.  That’s why he was a healthy scratch.  Speed only matters if you can get separation and both him and Campbell have struggled to do that.  

[Creekside]

7 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

I was at the game up high and more times than not I saw Jacoby looking and looking and no one was open.  He’s not Luck he’s not going to force it which is why he has fewer turnovers.  It also means he’s going to have less completions down field.  

 

I think this team’s biggest need is another WR to go with TY.

 

I agree 100%.

[GoColts8818]

Just now, egg said:

 

I agree 100%.

I am interested to see what happens when Funch gets back.  He showed signs of being that guy in week one.

[2006Coltsbestever]

2 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

BTW KC Is getting hammered by GB.

No Mahomes, I expected it. We have the 2nd seed as of now I do believe 

[Nickster]

2 hours ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

I know I am just having fun in here. I realize JB struggled today but Denver does have a very good defense if not great still. I am surprised we couldn't get Flacco to turn the ball over, that is why I thought we would win by 7-10 points. Flacco played a JB type of game. JB has to play better than today against the better teams no doubt if we want to get where we need to go. 

 

One last thing, what did you think about Reich's play calling today? I thought it was bad at times and it limited JB IMO.

I cannot understand why we didn’t screen them.  It was weird.

[Restinpeacesweetchloe]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No Mahomes, I expected it. We have the 2nd seed as of now I do believe 

They play at the Vikings next week. They very well might end up with 4 losses after next week.

[GoColts8818]

1 minute ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

No Mahomes, I expected it. We have the 2nd seed as of now I do believe 

KC just scored so don’t write them off but I think it’s three way race between KC, the Ravens, and the Colts for the two seed.  

[shasta519]

5 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

They actually are to an extent except when you gain 65 yards on the final drive to win the game like we did today. 

 

Of course that was important. But we are talking about total yards. And I have seen several people (in the last week) say that yardage isn't important...now it's being used as a measure of success.

[2006Coltsbestever]

1 minute ago, shastamasta said:

 

Of course that was important. But we are talking about total yards. And I have seen several people (in the last week) say that yardage isn't important...now it's being used as a measure of success.

Brissett threw for 202 yards today actually. I did not think he was above 200 but I will take that if we run for a lot of yards. Most people saying yards doesn't matter are to the people that think JB needs to throw for 300 for us to win. That is what I am taking from it. 

[shasta519]

19 minutes ago, GoColts8818 said:

The only numbers that truly matter are 15-13 and 5-2.  The Colts are on the right side of both of them.

 

So you agree...yards are irrelevant.

[Nickster]

1 hour ago, Chloe6124 said:

Quentin Nelson had one of his worst games of his career. Something is going on with the oline. It’s been bad two weeks in a row. Last week we were just lucky Texans were beat up in the secondary. He had no time on those longer routes.

 

1 hour ago, EastStreet said:

 

TY has the least separation average out of the top 5 WRs/TEs on the team. TY (1.28), Doyle (1.54), Ebron (1.8), Rogers (2.15), Pascal (1.53). They don't list Hine's because he's a RB, but he's likely got the best separation on the team.

 

JB is also 25th in AGGN%, meaning he's throwing it into tight coverage more than 24 other QBs. 

 

TY is not slow, or bad, this just means he's doubled a lot. But he is definitely not the most open guy. Still, TY has more than double the targets compared to the next WR, and far more than any of the TEs. What this means is he forcing it a lot to TY, and probably because he's stuck on his first read. It's pretty obvious most of Reich's play calls are 1st read to TY, a TE, or a RB. The other WRs are getting open, they are just further down the progression.

 

 

JB's TTT today was his worst of the year I believe (3.05), and was 2nd worst in the league today. This means he's holding on too long, and while the OL was not perfect, he had plenty of time on average. If I had all 22 I'd screenshot a few plays where he had plenty of time, had open guys up the seam, but attempted to check down or simply locked onto his first read.

 

He had plenty of time on plenty of plays, and inhaled vigorously.  But dad burn you got to screen the farkin ball with an active rush.

[shasta519]

6 minutes ago, 2006Coltsbestever said:

Brissett threw for 202 yards today actually. I did not think he was above 200 but I will take that if we run for a lot of yards. Most people saying yards doesn't matter are to the people that think JB needs to throw for 300 for us to win. That is what I am taking from it. 

 

I think you are confusing two groups of people. I don't know...I just thought it was funny that someone posted that Holder tweet about yardage...after the discussion from last week.

[compuls1v3]

5 hours ago, DougDew said:

Its obvious we need some real receivers.

I think we just need to keep feeding our TEs. It was working, then we stopped.

[EastStreet]

26 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Denver’s defense has only allowed a average of 240 yards this season. We had over 300. 

 

Denver's D has given up 302.6 yards per game this year.

 

They are good, but not that good.

 

NE and SF are allowing 220ish. Those are SB Ds.

[Imgrandojji]

24 minutes ago, Chloe6124 said:

Getting DF back should help us in the middle of the field. Also even though Cain hasn’t been doing much maybe just taking his speed out of the game made it easier on the defense. You still have to account for his speed.

Thing is, no you don't.  Not while Brissett won't target him.  Speed with bad route running is worthless.  

 

What I see happening is Cain gets a reputation for not getting open quickly, or not getting open at the right time on timing plays, whatever it is, and JB notices and subconsciously just stops looking his way. 

 

If a QB has no faith in a receiver, that receiver might as well not be on the field.  I have yet to see any evidence, whatsoever, that Brissett has even the slightest bit of faith in Deon Cain.

 

At the moment Deon Cain is the most replaceable colt of the entire 53 man roster.  He's hovering on the verge of bust status.  If I thought we could snag a good depth receiver like Danny Amendola off the Lions I'd drive Cain to the airport myself.  And I don't live in Indianapolis.  I'd go to Indianapolis just to drive him to the airport.  That's how little respect I have for Deon Cain. 

 

It's time to replace that roster spot with an actual productive player who fits the kind of offense Brissett likes to run.  No evidence whatsoever through nearly half the season that Cain is even close to being that guy.

[EastStreet]

5 minutes ago, Nickster said:

 

He had plenty of time on plenty of plays, and inhaled vigorously.  But dad burn you got to screen the farkin ball with an active rush.

Yup, good screen up the seam to keep the Ds honest. I'd much rather see Hines getting a screen pass than running between the Ts on an obvious run down. Give me Campbell on a screen or pop seam too.

[Lucky Colts Fan]

6 minutes ago, shastamasta said:

I think you are confusing two groups of people. I don't know...I just thought it was funny that someone posted that Holder tweet about yardage...after the discussion from last week.

 

People are going to use whatever numbers support their opinion.

 

You do it.  I do it.  Everyone does it.

 

That's the way it's always been and the way it always will be.

[Imgrandojji]

9 minutes ago, EastStreet said:

Yup, good screen up the seam to keep the Ds honest. I'd much rather see Hines getting a screen pass than running between the Ts on an obvious run down. Give me Campbell on a screen or pop seam too.

The Colts have really struggled in standard screens.  Some of the young players are telegraphing the screen pass, and sometimes Reich' is even tipping his hand with formations, so by the time the ball gets to the screen receiver, there's multiple defenders between him and the blue line.

 

They need to work on disguising screens better.  Especially those asinine plays where they send the running back in motion and then screen to them.  You might as well hang a bell around the RB's neck on plays like that with flashing neon lights that say "HEY GUYS THE BALL IS GOING TO THIS GUY!"

 

It really plays against Brissett's strengths to try to live on the screen because he's not a quick releaser of the ball, that's half the reason that the defenses can read the play before the receiver even has his feet set (the other half is poor formation disguise as just mentioned).

 

Hines is a deadly weapon in checkdown passes.  I'd like to see some two back sets against a blitzing D, where we play action with a fake to Mack then dump to Hines, when I've seen that tried it works really, really well.  Mack runs up the middle enough that a disguise based on that ought to be fairly effective and we've seen plays like that spring Hines for big gains.  Especially because brissett is really good at selling the run on play action

 

But Reich has to get a lot better at disguising screen plays before they're an NFL caliber weapon for him.  NFl defenses eat that stuff alive if they know it's coming.  And whatever Reich thinks he's doing to disguise the screen pass to the RB in motion, it really, really isn't working.